The Cal-look Lounge

How big oil sump do I need for a 2276cc street driven engine?

I like the looks of Scat and CB sumps.

Is 1 .5 quart enough?

Oil pump size,RPM and ground clearance are my considerations,i use the Scat 2 quart right now,but also am putting something together with a 3.5 quart
empi sump which actually gives more clearance,the only pain with the cb sump is it uses a different size gasket on the bottom plate which is available everywhere
cheers richie,uk

I've always figured that more oil = better. I've had a berg 3.5 quart on my car for several years along with a system 1 filter and a huge cooler with a fan. It takes nealry  8 quarts to fill my oil sysem when it's dry. ;D  I'm not a big fan of the CB sump because I still use the stock oil strainer as well.

26mm oil pump and revving not past 7500 rpm.More closely to 7000

I ve got a 3.5 quart too..
i will have a similar engine like you..
also 26 mm pump

At that RPM at least the 2 quart,proberly go 3.5

cheers richie,uk

i've a empi oil pump 32mm with oil filter on and an empi oil sump(small one) for  a 1200cc  ::)

That's what I've got, except I have the more common EMPI sump. Hopefully it will work for the 88x82, 6500 MAX ;)

i've got a racetrim for my 1915 that will rev up to 7,000.
is that not enough then?  ::)

I would be nervous...

of oil starvation?

2 qrts good for you Died 8)

Of sucking the sump dry at high rpm's. Maybe a drain back from the valve covers to the sump would be a good idea?? ???

I would go for 3.5qt for any motor that can achieve revs very quickly, not only considering how high it will rev, but how fast it will get up there. Considering light flywheel and larger oil pumps on most hot rod's, I'd say the 3.5qt is the way to go.

Figure if you need dual valve springs or if you have some type of rev limiter, you need a 3.5

How's the quality of these Empi 3.5 Sumps??.Are they worth the money.They aren't too expensive,but I've seen people finding chunks of sand in there from the sander. :D

It would be neat to cut and section in a piece of aluminium to make that Race-Trim sump deeper, wider, or both. You could use one of the Bugpack sumps as extra material as they are the same casting, and cheap...

I would like to hear more about that experimental Berg sump that Doug or Clyde was working with, that had the "air tubes" going through it longitudinally.
Bugatti did the same thing way way way back in the 1920's with their Type 35 straight 8 (I think they used 8 tubes running lengthwise through wetsump)

Something like this transmission pan??

(http://discountpowerparts.com/catalog/images/14102.jpg)

yes the Bugatti sump looked similar

Better to have too big of a sump than too small. I like the 3.5 and 4 qt sumps from Berg. I've got a 4 qt. for my 2165 and used the same sump on my IDA'd 1776.

I did that a couple of years ago.  I took a vintage Lang sump and sectioned it and added 1".  Then I got some 1/8"x1 Al flat bar and bent it in a square that matched the OD of the sump.  I clamped it all together and TIG'd it up.  The result was a sump that held 3qts and was the same depth as a Berg 3.5 qt extra wide sump.  And weighed 60% less.

The Lang sump is a good cantidate for that. Next one I find, I'm keeping ;)

this got me thinking of going for a CB super deep 4qt sump.
those are relatively cheap compared to the wider thinline sumps they also sell...

(http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/1761.jpg)

however, this got me thinking:
"too deep for use on street sedans"
does that count for us cal-lookers as well?

Just dont forget that the thing is hanging down there, and you should be fine. If you buy one of those sumps, get a basket of gaskets to go along with it, as you can see they dont use the standard VW one ;)

I have decided to use Scat 2 quart sump for my 2276 project.It looks like a nice casting and overall quality

:D
but 4 1/2" low!! and dutch speed bumps... mmh.

will my racetrim sump really be that bad?
zach, i thought you were gonna use the same on your racetrim 2276cc some time in the future...

Hi Diederick
With as fast as your new motor should accelerate, I would think it would be wise to have a safety margin as far as capacity. Cold oil doesn't want to flow back to sump very quickly. Let's say you fire car up, not have oil to temperature and want to stab it... you'll send all the oil up into heads (especially) if going through corner, and the sump "may" run low. Even a mild 1776 I built in 2000 with little 40IDFs got a 3.5qt sump. How many other motors that can rev to 7000rpm (+) are running under 5 qts of oil? I would bet not many. We have the disadvantage of being a horizontal motor and an antiquated bypass setup. My Suby runs to 6800 very quickly and it holds 5qt of oil (which, if I had my way, would have another 2 added). Under "ideal" conditions, your 1.5 may be enough.... but how often will conditions be "ideal?"

i only have 4.5 litres of oil,shift at 7800rpm and have no issues,BUT i do use a thin synthetic oil that will drain back quickly and I am always carefull to see some oil temp before I get on it

cheers richie,uk

Yes, I will use the Race-Trim 1 1/2 quart sump... but my motor (both motors, the 1835cc as well) will also be dry sumped :)

richie, what kind of oil? 10w40?

i guess i can always change the sump later on...
i need to get building soon, but i keep waiting for parts to arrive.

0/30 or 0/40 or 5/40 and 10/60 depending on what time of year etc

cheers richie,uk

how about a 4 quart berg sump?
or will that be too low?

plus my suction tube is welded and about 2" long. the 4 quart sump is 3.75" deep. will this be ok?

The 4qt sump will work, but you will have to be very careful as it is extremely low.
As for the pickup tube, I extend it down until it is the same distance from the sump plate as it was from the factory- does anyone else have more insight on this??

Man you are on a thin line here....No aircooled contruction with it's roots in the 30's can live on synthetics :) HAHA....That is what I am told!!! So I love synthetic, warm motor up like it should and have a ball with my motor, only issue was lack of oil (bearing showed some scuffing) when stock pump and sump was used.........And yeah it is a type 4....synthetic and type 4 in a Cal-looker....thats rock'n roll!!! :)

perhaps a 3.5 quart berg or empi sump is better?

Berg 3.5q is good, I've heard mixed reviews on the EMPI sump.

i've READ they're an exact copy of the berg sump.
once again this is what some people claim...

anyhow, i'm sure the tube will come out a lot better with the 3.5

There is NO NEED for 3,5-4 qrt sumps on daily street engines, unless you whip them above 7500 at every stop light. Not even along with a 30 mm pump. It is a thing from the past that has been misunderstood or misconcepted.
What we used to do with those,  was making a poor mans dry sump. We lovered the max level to the minimum line on the dipstick, resulting in less oil whip inside the case, hence less friction.
7-8 quarts non temp controlled oil  in the system on a street engine has huge warm up periods, which often gives you a false "security" Too cold oil is almost as bad as too warm. - Controlled temps are much better.
WRT the strainer, I leave them out on every engine that has more than 294 degree duration on the cam. Much of the starvation occurs exactly there, not because of too little capacity in the system, because the strainer is not designed to be able to handle that amount of oil that fast.
T

i still have my 1.5 quart race trim. but i'm not sure how to mount that one with the welded pickup tube and the fact that the sump plate threads are not in the same spot as the empi and berg sump...

any ideas?