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Cal-look/High Performance => Cal-look => Topic started by: Jim Ratto on July 14, 2008, 00:54:09 am



Title: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 14, 2008, 00:54:09 am
tore 2165 down, cam is still a cam, all but one lifter look new (the one shows slightest wear).
not a plug, but I am happy with my Valvoline.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: louisb on July 14, 2008, 01:02:41 am
That the FK-45. How do the lifter bores look? What are the specs on the new cam? You staying with the 2165?

--louis


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Sarge on July 14, 2008, 01:04:28 am
Good news, Jim!!







Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: javabug on July 14, 2008, 02:15:37 am
What are the lifters?  I probably missed it if you told us.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 14, 2008, 04:21:35 am
Bugpack-Tayco lifters, Valvoline 15W40 Premium Blue, with dose of a ZDDP additive.
it is going back together this week and next as 2165cc



Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Fastbrit on July 14, 2008, 08:37:45 am
How's the sweater holding up?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: airstuff on July 14, 2008, 09:39:47 am
tore 2165 down, cam is still a cam, all but one lifter look new (the one shows slightest wear).
not a plug, but I am happy with my Valvoline.

Hey Jim,

any pics of the lifters and the cam?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Diederick/DVK on July 14, 2008, 10:54:20 am
good to hear jim!
i hope i can expect the same longevity of my engle cam and bugpack-tayco lifters if i can find some good oil ;)


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: javabug on July 14, 2008, 12:32:23 pm
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 14, 2008, 14:13:48 pm
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)
???


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: benssp on July 14, 2008, 14:55:23 pm
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)

cam not lifters

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/medium/1667483.jpg)


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Casey on July 14, 2008, 16:21:56 pm
Great news Jim! I finally took the diaper off mine. Now dipstick likes to push out. ::)


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Tony M on July 14, 2008, 16:28:00 pm
Glad to hear that Jim - This gives hope to all that have had lifter problems - Good to see that some parts are still made with quality -


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: javabug on July 14, 2008, 16:53:15 pm
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)
???

Hey now don't I look dumb!  I was having an OHC moment—2 lobes per cyl.

 :-X ::) :-\

Go ahead and ban me from technical posts.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Rennsurfer on July 14, 2008, 18:51:35 pm
tore 2165 down, cam is still a cam, all but one lifter look new (the one shows slightest wear).
[Valvoline™ plug]not a plug, but I am happy with my Valvoline.[/Valvoline™ plug]

There, I fixed your post for ya, Jim.

 ;D

Joking aside, I'm not surprised that Valvoline holds up in h.p. air-cooled engines. That's all I've ever used in mine. Seems to work rather well. But oil preferences are like our opinions... we all have one. So, I'm guessing that you're gonna go with the same cam on the rebuild, yes?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 14, 2008, 19:03:06 pm
tore 2165 down, cam is still a cam, all but one lifter look new (the one shows slightest wear).
[Valvoline™ plug]not a plug, but I am happy with my Valvoline.[/Valvoline™ plug]

There, I fixed your post for ya, Jim.

 ;D

Joking aside, I'm not surprised that Valvoline holds up in h.p. air-cooled engines. That's all I've ever used in mine. Seems to work rather well. But oil preferences are like our opinions... we all have one. So, I'm guessing that you're gonna go with the same cam on the rebuild, yes?


Hi Mark,
I did a bunch of researching on the oil for this last motor after having a cam failure in the previous, even though I did what I "thought" was the correct thing to do...i.e. synthetic. I had no idea how bad some synthetics are fro flat tappet hp stuff, like my Bug motor. Thanks to LN Engineering's posting on engine oil for Porsche and VW's I found that this Valvoline has the "stuff" we need to make things live. No I am not going back to FK45, not because it is worn and certainly not because it eats lifter bores (my lifter bores still look untouched... no rock, the ID's are still pickled gold-green) but because I feel it doesn't have enough overlap for my taste. I am going with a Pauter cam very similar to 86C Web.

so to conclude, the engine will be 94 x 78mm, 9.3:1, 044 44 x 37.5 heads ported by yours truly and Clyde Berg, Pauter R6E8 cam with 1.25 rockers, 48 Webers, 1-3/4" header pipes. I picked up a few new goodies while in Bay Area too, from my friend John Holleran (owns a Porsche speed and fab/resoration/dyno shop).


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Sarge on July 15, 2008, 01:17:51 am
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)
???

Hey now don't I look dumb!  I was having an OHC moment—2 lobes per cyl.

 :-X ::) :-\

Go ahead and ban me from technical posts.

I'm pullin' your beer card ::) ;D


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Rennsurfer on July 15, 2008, 01:21:44 am
Hi Mark,
I did a bunch of researching on the oil for this last motor after having a cam failure in the previous, even though I did what I "thought" was the correct thing to do...i.e. synthetic. I had no idea how bad some synthetics are fro flat tappet hp stuff, like my Bug motor. Thanks to LN Engineering's posting on engine oil for Porsche and VW's I found that this Valvoline has the "stuff" we need to make things live. No I am not going back to FK45, not because it is worn and certainly not because it eats lifter bores (my lifter bores still look untouched... no rock, the ID's are still pickled gold-green) but because I feel it doesn't have enough overlap for my taste. I am going with a Pauter cam very similar to 86C Web.

so to conclude, the engine will be 94 x 78mm, 9.3:1, 044 44 x 37.5 heads ported by yours truly and Clyde Berg, Pauter R6E8 cam with 1.25 rockers, 48 Webers, 1-3/4" header pipes. I picked up a few new goodies while in Bay Area too, from my friend John Holleran (owns a Porsche speed and fab/resoration/dyno shop).

Nice! Were you using Valvoline 100% synthetic or the Dura-Blend (mix of fossil and synthetic)?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: javabug on July 15, 2008, 02:52:11 am
Wait—only 4 lobes?  So half of them did go flat?   ??? ;)
???

Hey now don't I look dumb!  I was having an OHC moment—2 lobes per cyl.

 :-X ::) :-\

Go ahead and ban me from technical posts.

I'm pullin' your beer card ::) ;D

Oh COME ON!!!   :'( >:( :D


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 15, 2008, 17:40:20 pm
Hi Mark,
I did a bunch of researching on the oil for this last motor after having a cam failure in the previous, even though I did what I "thought" was the correct thing to do...i.e. synthetic. I had no idea how bad some synthetics are fro flat tappet hp stuff, like my Bug motor. Thanks to LN Engineering's posting on engine oil for Porsche and VW's I found that this Valvoline has the "stuff" we need to make things live. No I am not going back to FK45, not because it is worn and certainly not because it eats lifter bores (my lifter bores still look untouched... no rock, the ID's are still pickled gold-green) but because I feel it doesn't have enough overlap for my taste. I am going with a Pauter cam very similar to 86C Web.

so to conclude, the engine will be 94 x 78mm, 9.3:1, 044 44 x 37.5 heads ported by yours truly and Clyde Berg, Pauter R6E8 cam with 1.25 rockers, 48 Webers, 1-3/4" header pipes. I picked up a few new goodies while in Bay Area too, from my friend John Holleran (owns a Porsche speed and fab/resoration/dyno shop).

Nice! Were you using Valvoline 100% synthetic or the Dura-Blend (mix of fossil and synthetic)?

I was using two different synths: Mobil 1 15W50 and Lubro Moly 5W40
now I use conventional Valvo PB 15W40


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 15, 2008, 18:35:28 pm
Great news Jim! I finally took the diaper off mine. Now dipstick likes to push out. ::)

is pulley spitting up too? Sounds like a breahter issue....  :-\


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Casey on July 15, 2008, 20:28:08 pm
Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Sarge on July 16, 2008, 00:54:50 am

Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!


First line for me, too...or just a shade past.  Anymore and it'll spew.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 16, 2008, 00:55:52 am

Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!


First line for me, too...or just a shade past.  Anymore and it'll spew.

Does Bates have lines on his "dipstick"?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Sarge on July 16, 2008, 01:03:59 am

Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!


First line for me, too...or just a shade past.  Anymore and it'll spew.

Does Bates have lines on his "dipstick"?



That's between you and Bates...I ain't goin' there! :o ::) ;D


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Neil Davies on July 16, 2008, 11:09:43 am
Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!

I had a problem with my 2276 oil breathing - I had a T-piece in the breather lines that was actually pressurising one half of the motor! Changed the routing of the breather tubes and my rocker cover gasket sealing problem was suddenly gone.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Harry/FDK on July 16, 2008, 11:32:54 am
tore 2165 down, cam is still a cam, all but one lifter look new (the one shows slightest wear).
not a plug, but I am happy with my Valvoline.

Good to hear Jim, (you know) i had same good experience with Webcam/Scat Lube-A-Lobe combo.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 18, 2008, 23:12:14 pm
Pulled rest of motor down the other night, and I am pretty impressed with how fresh everything looks. Rod bearings still have the grey dull overlay, mains no battle scars, Mahle pistons still showing the grey coat on skirts, and no huff marks at cylinder-to-head seal (no copper gaskets, I wanted a tight deck). I have to say that this little guy made a hell of a street motor, lots of torque, took a good beating, good throttle response, lived in the heat and wild times. If anybody was going to ask me for a mean street combo, I'd have to suggest this last motor.

New cam is a little more aggressive, at 271 deg @ .050 about same lift as K45. The heads appear to have way more port volume on the intakes, from about mid manifold to valve. Can you say peaky?  ;D


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: nicolas on July 19, 2008, 08:06:43 am
tweaky!!!!


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: j-f on July 21, 2008, 17:38:30 pm
I'm checking the valve lift on my engine. I have some slight difference between each valve. I wonder what is the tolerance?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 21, 2008, 18:05:31 pm
I'm checking the valve lift on my engine. I have some slight difference between each valve. I wonder what is the tolerance?

depends on heads and rockers, When I ran SE heads (aftermarket) the actual lift @ valve was all over the place, same with Super Flows and when i did the Manx Comp Eliminator 2276 motor... lifts were all over the place. But with VW-crested OE heads, much more consistent. My Scat 1.4's that I bought in 1991 have been very consistent on VW heads.


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: j-f on July 21, 2008, 18:31:03 pm
Ok Jim,

heads are street eliminator (from early 2000), rockers are stock 1.1 and the camshaft is a w120. (I know, it is not a very    
coherent, but I buy the engine like that, an update with more streetable heads is plan for the winter ;) ).

The engine has something like 10.000km / 6000miles.

I checked the valve lift today, but the pedestal of my comparator seems to have some problems.  >:( (It as lost of play )


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 21, 2008, 18:42:23 pm
is it a magnetic base indicator?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: j-f on July 21, 2008, 18:49:40 pm
is it a magnetic base indicator?

Yes, but I remove the magnetic base to screw it in the hole of the manifold studs.  ;)

It is a cheap pedestal with butterflies.
I have order a new one with a central locking. More accurate I hope.
Once again, never buy cheap parts. Cry once but buy once...


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 21, 2008, 19:16:19 pm
I use a Melling 8mm oil pump cover plate (iron) and bolt to one of middle upper 8mm studs, then attach magentic base to that. Same thing when doing cam timing, just bolt 8mm cover plate to thermostat stud on RH side of case. If you grind "edges" off of a stock VW 8mm cover, so it is flat, you can use it too.

Have fun!


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 21, 2008, 19:46:01 pm
Yes, out of pulley too. Breather lines are still dry. Running 40wt and filled to 2nd line on dip stick. Jim  says run 20/50 and fill to lower line. TBC........ I will be at Drag In though!

Casey did you run your car yesterday?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Udo on July 21, 2008, 19:48:41 pm
I'm checking the valve lift on my engine. I have some slight difference between each valve. I wonder what is the tolerance?

May be the rockers have different ratios . The cam does not have different lobes

Udo


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: j-f on July 21, 2008, 20:01:11 pm
How can I check the ratio of the rocker?


Title: Re: 8600 miles and still 4 lobes
Post by: Udo on July 21, 2008, 22:56:49 pm
First check the cam lift at the pushrod , count the ratio to the lift and messure the valve lift .
For my opinion 10 years and 30000 miles is a good result for lifters and cam  ;) .

Udo