The Cal-look Lounge

I have been wondering about this for a while now - Does anyone out there Make the brackets to convert a swing axle pan to IRS ???

Also any other info on what else is involved would be great - Thanks guys  :)

its ok I found some - but any info on this conversion would be a great help  :)

i have done a conversion like this in the past, carefull measuring is essential or you end up with non alignable rear end
best is to use a jig

I think mine are from csp (not sure), and we used a homemade-system to put them correct onto my pan. Friends have made that system on an automatic-pan, so the maesurement is allways correct. The most difficult job is the cutting  ;D, cause you've to cut verry close to the handbrakecable.

Succes!!!

gr
Wout

Hi Lee, i wanted to do the same, but you NEED a jig. I just scored a automatic pan so i just have to weld in the clutch-cable pipe.
I know youre expensive problem. (shortened pan) :-\

Who said this was for a "shortened" pan ;) :)

I've got a pair of bracket's knocking about down the garage if you need them  ;)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/49-rag/IMG_2334.jpg)

ohhhh I'll take those off your hands buddy - drop me a PM  :)

I`ve just made a jig for doing this on my oval`s new pan, easy to do if you have access to an irs pan to begin with.
I can take a pic for you to show how simple it is if that helps?

the `66 nearly done then??

Cool thanks dude - pic's would be AWSOME  :) I have seen several "jigs" on the www, you can even buy one on thesamba.com

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=281289

I was also wondering about 944 trailing arms - do they fit straight in  ??? :)

944 bits are pretty much a straight fit BUT you need to use the correct age / selection of bits.
I`m sure there will be a couple of loungers who can advise exacty what you need 8)

COOOL - anyone have some more info  ???

This is for the '66 I assume? If so, why?

One answer - 901 5 speed  ;D ;D ;D

Ahhh :) Have you driven a car with a dogleg 1st gear yet? You might want to give it a try first as it seems people either love them or hate them. I myself, am part of the former :)

Thanks for the info dude - I was not aware of the dogleg 1st but I am sure I will be able to handle it  ;) :)

it just seems like a REALLY good idea to me - it looks like I will have a similar set up to S.Bleecher - 2110 and a 5 speed  :)

plus NO MORE crappy rear hub seals  ::) :)

i have a 901 fivespeed in my oval with narrowed 944 rear arms/brakes (on an irs pan)
the steel arms fit without mods if you change the bushing to a type 1 bushing /the one that centers the bolt in the bracket)
the aluminum arms fit too, but the are wider (a lot, two differnet versions), you need wider fenders

For the most part even stock beetle IRS A Arms are wider than short swingaxle. I didn't realise this until recently so I need to get the arms narrowed and fit slightly wider wings in order for my slicks to have enough clearence!

Dude i have a Jig that i can lend out or was thinking of selling if anybody wants to take it of my hands !! :)

Only in south london and have done 4 conversions from SA to IRS :)

Rob

Sounds good to me dude PM me your number and we'll sort something out  :)

Got a 901 in the back of mine , true the dog leg first can be a pain but once you've got used to it you will never go back  ;)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/49-rag/IMG_2337.jpg)
The 5th gear is just the best out on the motor way is just the best, cursing along at 2000 rpm just makes sense with ida's  8)
Im yet to try it out on the quarter mile , but with enough grunt behind me I should be able to launch in second  ::)

I gave the IRS and narrowed rear arms some thought when I dismantled my 'Vert 5 years ago and was going to use 17" Torque Thrust IIs with it but then changed the whole layout for the car.

Got still this article in my bookmarks: http://www.germanlook.com/Html/Tech/Tech12NarrowingIRSArms.htm (http://www.germanlook.com/Html/Tech/Tech12NarrowingIRSArms.htm)

So Monkiboy's building a German Look car after all!  Here's me thinking he was building the archetypal 1970s Cal Looker. ;D

 :'( :'( :'( don't be soooooo mean  :'( :'( :'(  at least I will be using a 70's 911 box  ;) :)

i have narrowed a few sets of arms and have made a jig (morten aase runs my arms in his ghia)

Yepp narrowed A arms are the way to go , had to narrow mine to get the wheels to sit in right , also re-jigged the shock mounts in the arm's too , what a pain that was  :(

Yup, I love that 2-3, 3-2 gear change :)

I'll get used to it don't worry guys  :)

Cruising at 2000 rpm is lugging it.

I think he means for fuel consumpsion purposes - 3000rpm is low enough for me BUT 2000rpm is even better  8)

Lugging it :D :D :D you must be a lot wealthier than me  , I'd rather spend my money on the car than fuel . 5th gear = low rpm good top end speed .
 Ive spent too many years running up and down the motor ways in old vw's doing 70+ with the engine screaming and the gear box crying out for mercy  ::)
Installing a 901 box seams a logical and practical solution to increasing fuel costs and getting there sparring the motor from long sections of high rpm running  8)

You must have been reading my mind dude  ;) :) Sounds perfect 8)

Great mind's , and all that  ;D
Best thing about it is that when your in convoy with everyone with their "built gearbox's" , their strugling to keep 65 while your engine is on tic over in top gear  8)

Lee, heres a pic of the jig I made.
Got my mounts done today & it took longer than I expected, deffo would be hard to do by eye & ruler.
Cheers,
Kev

Nice! that looks like just the job  :) Rob (54caldub) has offered me the use of his - I am looking to get some 1303 arms realined (narrowed) to match the rear track of a standard "short axle" car - I think someone who replyed to this thread might be able to do it for me (Karl h) I will drop him a PM  :)

This is all a great help guys - THANKS  ;D

wow cool topic
irs sounds great for handling , but i was always worried about how much you can narrow,
if its possible to get the same track as a older swingaxle, thats great
i also see when people use irs, the wheels tuck in , resto cal style, thats another thing that i dislike

yep LOTS of info in this thread  :)

IRS has always seemed "logical" to me plus the 5 speed is ALOT cheaper - And like I mentioned NO more crappy rear hub seals  ;) :)

How do you mean the wheels tuck in? With IRS there is a lot less negative camber when you lower the rear end.

I think you can narrow the rear arms by around an inch each side but maybe Glen or Bruce will be able to comment further..?!

Yup. Just need some BBS split-rim cross-spoke wheels in gold, a big ol' Type 4 motor and a curved windshield and you're away!  ;)

Grasshopper, you disappoint me. You are straying from the true path to righteousness... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keith I would have thought the multiple street cars running 9's with IRS setups would have gotten you out of the Dark old days of swing axle!  ;) ;D

Out of interest I was thinking if you ran custom tubular arms, surely you can narrow your rear track more???

Rob.

Yes I know master - for this I am sorry ;) :)

I am trying to use bits that would have been around in the 70's ie early 911, 1303 and bus bits  ;) :)

Don't worry too much though - its all still in my head, I haven't cut anything yet - I just have SOOOOOOOOOO many ideas after SCC :)

Rob, you can get those Heim jointed spring plate adapters which take away the need for torsion bars. By narrowing the A A arms by more than a inch or 2 (whatever the maximum is) you then have to narrow the torsion housing. By using those adapters you remove the need for 'shortened' torsion bars!

There is another way of keeping stock length torsion bars but its lots of work! Wayne Allman explained it too me and its lots of work!

I had my trailing arms narrowed 26mm for each side, and used 2 left side type 3 automatic axles. Tucked the wheels back in nicely (disc brakes and 5.5" Sprints were the culprit). Check out my GTV thread, there is more info there ;)

monkyboy you have a PM
as zach said, for a narrowed arm/901 setup you need shorter axles
if you go a lot lower than stock on the rear end you can flip the arms from side to side and relocate the shockmount to the opposite arm, so you get not as much negative camber

Photos i could find while i was doing a IRS Bus on my 54 floors.

Used a Hym joint and 944 arms


(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/DSCF3581.jpg)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/DSCF3589.jpg)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/DSCF3594.jpg)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/DSCF3585.jpg)

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/DSCF3576.jpg)

Cool pics dude - not sure i will be going quite that "extreme" Like i mentioned I want to use as many "Stock" type parts as though it was done years ago  ;) :)

Nice looking jig though  :)

As you can see in the last pic Lee, with a little thought and custom short drive shafts you can get the IRS just as narrow as the Swing. And you can still keep the torsion bars if you like to... But it is at this point you should start buying the rubber and rims you want to fit.... to get that "designed" look....

Yeah sorry the pic was more to show you the Jig :)

Also if anybody needs to borrow a jig in the UK i am happy to bring it to shows :) for lend outs

Keep dreaming!
2k rpm @ 70mph = overheating.

Don't forget to notch your shock towers.  The control arm will hit it.

Lee, 2000 RPM's and cooling the engine?

You guys are more than welcome to come out with me next time I go out , I'll give you a wave as I pass you at the gas station  ;D ;D ;D

Lets get this thread going again - I was wondering can the Aluminuim porsche A arms be narrowed  ??? :)

swingaxle bad, IRS good
must go turbo, must go  turbo!
EFI is your friend
...

seems like you are getting headfirst in a whole lot off trouble. not the IRS conversion but the more exotic parts may work against you when you need to change something and buy it new. i have thought about this myself if i ever have a problem with one off my old parts. but agian i see what you are getting at, but that car is called a porsche.  ;D
don't forget to flatten the arms off the fork as well . that way you can have better access to the stubs and axles if you need to change something.


i think it can be done, but by a professional welder.

Hmmmm I see your point dude BUT if I do go for these idea's then I will probably just use the fairly standard Single pot calipers and vented disc's - My main idea is to make it look like a Cool "Factory" chassis with as many standard VW/Porsche parts as posible,

it just that after working on my friends IRS chassis and Richie's at SCC to just seems SILLY not to convert - Every thing is just SOOOOOO much easier! :)

PS:swingaxle bad, IRS good
must go turbo, must go  turbo!
EFI is your friend
...

You just wait till the "NEXT engine dude  :o ;) :)

Ok we'll call that the 'SCC engine' for covenience  ;D

why not look for a 66 automatic chasis? that could do the trick and be fairly factory with some mods on the shifterplace.

Not a bad Idea dude BUT I did speak to my friend Mark at flatlands engineering (buggy builder) and he has all the jigs etc to weld in the brackets etc (e's doing an oval at the moment) and I know that mark will do a PROPER job and it will look very "Factory"  ;)

I just need to work out what width semi trailing arms I need to keep it the same as a "short axle" car - Anyone know ???

 

i have IRS and 944 brakes on the pan i'm preparing for my 67. with fuchs. 6 inch wide for the front and 7 for the rear. I need to narrow the arms 1'' per side (steel from a beetle) in order to get the 7'' fuchs under the stock fenders. The 6 inch fuchs wouldn't need narrowing or very little maybe, to get the lip in line with the fender end. Remember, the 944 brakes add an inch on both sides.

WOW dude that is almost exactly the setup I am planning on  ;) but I am wondering why think about narrowing the 6" fuchs and not the beam ??? I am also NOT a big fan of "narrowed beams" BUT if with the disc's etc it ends up being the same width as a STOCK setup then I guess its "acceptable"  ;) :)

Ok you got me wrong. What i was trying to say is that you probably dont need to narrow the arm when using 6 inch fuchs on the back. They will go just under the stock fender. I need to narrow my arms because of the 7s. The front 944 brakes also widen the track a little + the dropped spindles + the 6inch fuchs - i needed to narrow the front beam up 3 inches.

In a few weeks I'll let you know how it all works, I will be using the aluminium arms on my '56 pan.

Hmmmm very interesting - keep us posted on this cool conversion  :)

Stock width IRS and early 6 fuch fits without issues,and also gasburners fit the same,ally arms are a whole load more work to fit though


cheers richie

I was wondering when you were gonna drop in - See I do listen to some of the stuff you tell me  ;) :)

you listen,but then take no notice whatsoever :D


cheers richie

...for no gain.

I will, check my topic and you stay informed ;)
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,7217.0.html

you have the good one and the bad one now, can't win them all.

EFI good! turbo is the way!  ;D

I thought someone like yourself would respect that kinda attitude - I mean how many times did people tell you not to turn a cabrio into a 9 sec street car  ;) :D ;D :-*