The Cal-look Lounge

As I'm getting pretty tired off my ride comfort, with my avis adjusters on the one but last tooth, and also due to the dropping prices of these spindles I'm considering buying a set. Also, I'd like my front end to be just a tad lower. Now, can I run drop spindles without narrowing my front beam? I know it can be done when running Gasburners and perhaps other wheels as well...

I figure it depends on the offset of the wheels and I wouldn't know what ET my 4.5" KPZ wheels have. But I suppose the questions would be until what offset drop spindles can be used?

And perhaps there are any pics of lookers with a stock width beam that run drop spindles.

P.s. are welded drop spindles any good too?

I ran J Tech Forge drop spindles (for a week) in 1988 or 89... with stock width adjustable beam (chrome!), my 5.5" Mangle wheels were pushed out about 15mm per side, and car was waaay too low so I went back to stock VW spindles and have had same setup since then. My car rides fairly smooth. Do you have the correct shock height for your set up Dieds?

I think I have yellow Magnetti Marelli gas shocks and they're pretty rough...

My brother runs CB spindles and his front is way low, but the adjusters were welded in too low. I don't think I will have that issue though...

MM makes shocks?????????????  :o

whoops, now i'm not that sure anymore... it's been a while since i last checked...

p.s. did you check your mail today? ;)

What have you got to lower the front ? Only adjustable beam with og "non-dropped" vw spindles and short shocks ?


If I remember well it's Cofap that makes them, but indeed it's written also Magnetti Marelli on the shocks caps. I have a pair of those gas shocks at the rear, they are a little rough but they ride nicely. But I think they would be too rough for the front.

Measure the backspace of your front wheels.

It most likely will not fit though :-\ I have the original stock width beam under my GTV with CB dropped spindles, Koni shocks, 4.5" Sprint Stars (they have a whopping 4.5" of backspace!), and skinny 145's. Under hard cornering, or if I have extra passengers in the car, the tires rub :-[ I am hoping that a HD sway bar will help alleviate the problem. I probably should slightly narrow the beam, maybe a half inch on each side, but I really don't want to do that! Other than the slight rubbing problem, the car handles, rides, and stops very well :)

Does anyone know the ET of 4.5" KPZ wheels?
My brother has 5" sprint stars are in my opinion my wheels themselves are quite a bit narrower on the outside...

Perhaps these 2 photos are of any help?

(http://www.cal-look.nl/gallery/albums/userpics/10013/DVK-027.jpg)

(http://www.cal-look.nl/gallery/albums/userpics/10013/DVK-007.jpg)

Hard to tell from the pictures. Unbolt a wheel, turn it upside down, and place a straight edge across the lip of the wheel (not the tire!), from one end to the other. Measure the distance from the straight edge to the point where the wheel bolts up to the brake. That is your backspace.

Great advice on the backspace, Zach. That's exactly correct. I was pleased to find out that using 2½" drop spindles (with drum brakes) with the early Flat Four BRM wheels and stock front beam width turned out how I envisioned it. The wheels/tires ended up where I wanted 'em. Which match the late '67 wide rear axles on my car. It only widened my front track width three eighths of an inch. Barely noticeable.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/471485.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/454562.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/454549.jpg)

cool shot mark 8)

Died i think with the dropped spindles your wheels will rub a bit on the inner fenderlip.Dont know the offset of your wheels but as i remember your wheels are almost
on the edge.
What you can also do but this is not accurate meassure from the outer rim straight up to the fender and see how many mm you still have.
Remember that the spindle will bring your wheels out by 1.5cm.

Otherwise its a 2" narrowed beam option like Jeepee i guess. 8)

I run a sway-a-way and CB Perf dropped spindles on a stock width beam with Fuchs. No rubbing issues at all.
(http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images_v2/000/049/279/20080828/dyn008_original_845_634_jpeg_49279_34dde395b0ad7af7ca92b15cfbd658b5.jpg)

No, but difficulty to put the tow bar  ::) ::) ::) ::)(remind of kgm)  ;D ;D ;D

that's what i mean mark. you say it's only 3/8" (.94cm) instead of 1.5cm. though i have discs i wouldn't know if this would differ then...

and i think my wheels don't come out that far. but 4.5" fuchs have more backspace i suppose...

thanks for the info so far! so, you all use forged CB spindles? what about those welded spindles?

I wouldn't use welded spindles - a friend had one break. This was over 10 years ago, when they were a fairly new idea.

whoops, good to know!

what's the story on these:

(http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images_v2/002/547/610/20070827/dyn006_original_615_820_pjpeg_2547610_7e7797a4b54045fbeb903f4e45f4f248.jpg)

i got the image from Donder59's blog. it says that guillermo of DVF sells zero offset drop spindles... ???

Do you run 135s or 145s?

Thanks for the comments.
I run Michelins XZX 145R15 at the front and XVS 185R15 at the back.
The front brakes are beetle discs drilled in the Porsche pattern.

More backspace compared to what? You mentioned Gas Burners, I can measure the backspace tomorrow in garage for if you're going to run Gas Burners (or 4.5" - 6.0" Fuchs).

About the dropped spindles; which brand offers non-welded ones for king&link-pin style front axle?

a friend of mine is running cb disc spindles with 4,5 sprintstars on a 68 1200 standard, he had to smash the inner lip of the fender to avoid rubbing with 165/65 tyres.

Touchy subject, for sure!  Yvre's photo shows how much negative offset there is with a Fuchs alloy..., you can get away with it and it looks great.  The wheels were designed for use with disc brakes (same as Gas Burners).  It's when you get away from that negative offset that causes the problems.  Look at the pic of Died's Sprint Stars now..., not that same negative offset as the Fuchs.  If it was me and I wanted to use the Sprint Stars, I'd narrow the beam a couple of inches, but that leaves you with a stiff handling (shorter torsion bars) front end.  It's hard to have your cake and eat it too.  From my own experiences, after all is said and done, I wish I'd kept a stock width beam with avis adjusters and dropped spindles..., but the lure of disc brakes and being able to stop as well as the 5" wide flat fours sent me to the narrowed beam.  Guess what, it STILL rubs once in a while. :(  My $.02

This is one of those areas where time spent on mocking up, testing, measuring, and fitting pays off.  Sure, you can throw a bunch of parts together and it'll look fine and work adequately—the majority of people go this route.  The hard part is that it is time-consuming and often expensive to get the ideal setup on your car.

Wow, no kidding. From what I remember, 4.5" fuchs have 100mm of backspace, while my 4.5" Sprints have 4.5" (114.3mm). Mine shouldn't rub, but it does! Maybe its just the old original torsion springs that I use?? Who knows...

also got no problems with fuchs and lot off comfort

i thought you had a narrowed beam jeroen?

chirco sells welded spindles...

i'm going for gasburners, it was merely an example ;)

serge, i don't think a stock beam with avis adjusters will give you the comfort you have right now. i now started using my 67 about 3 days a week to get to work as i moved to another town.

i could of course buy myself a pair of spindles whenever and mock them up and narrow if needed...

p.s. for some reason i don't feel i can corner hard, it's like the front end won't turn when going through 90 degree corners at say 25 instead 20. it's not like understeer though but it will have the same consequence ;)

nope no narrowed frontaxle. just a lowerd axle in combi with spindels.

no problem. and cornerimg? no problem ;D

Now I'm intressed! Can you tell more about those? Link-pin or ball joint? Price?

these were for a link pin car i presume -> donder59
but i'm interested as much as you are...

i know you don't have any difficulty cornering, jeroen. i do feel sorry for your ears with those screaming tyres on every roundabout  ;D

My car won't "turn" either >:(.  I had 195/60's all the way around with the 5.5" Porsche chromies, a stock beam with a few torsions pulled, 3/4" Sway-A-Way front stabilizer, and worn out factory shocks years ago..., it handled like a champ  :).  The 145's are no help, but vanity must prevail, right? ;)


I like your car, Jeroen! 8) 8) 8)  Welcome to The Lounge, too ;)

I would be interested in a set for ball joint. I send a mail.....I'll tell you

thanks Sarge :). I am proud owner off it. best ride so far


bierderick: you also have to check your caster, camber of your car. it also will help. most guys never check that.

For all of you interested:

the latest production batches of dropped spindles from CB performance are zero offset.
In the past when you bought a set of non-welded dropped spindles, they came from CB and increased the track about 1cm each side. When running aftermarked wheels, this could cause some tire to fender clearance issues.
CB was aware of this problem and started production of zero offset dropped spindles, these zero offset don't increase the track so everything is as VW intended (except for the ride height of course). So gone are the tire to fender clearance issues.
These zero offset dropped spindles are available for link pin and balljoint.

Hope this helps out your questions.

As for welded dropped spindles: the only dropped spindles available for the baywindow bus are welded (Im' not talking about the ones that are swapped from side to side, that's another issue), a lot of the fat chicks are using them at the moment and I haven't heard any complaint about breakage or cracks appearing. If welded spindles can carry the weight of a heavy bus, why wouldn't they be able to handle the weight of a bug assuming everything is done properly... Just to give you my opinion on welded dropped spindles so that's why I am in the progress of making my own welded dropped bay window spindles as over here in europe, they are so expensive...

Thank you for you answer here and on my mail :)

Do you have a part number from cb for these zero offset balljoint drop spindle.

Cool hope this info. is correct. Thats great news if so.

yeah, but i run caster shims and you don't...
guess we need to have a look when i'm in your garage again!! ;)

p.s. i'll look into the CB spindles, wim. thanks for the info!!

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=478 (http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=478)

these still have an offset of 1/4"...

Diederiek

Donder and I compared the spindles and we haven't noticed any offset, maybe the product info on the CB site isn't updated yet.

Greetz

Wim

so, these are the ones you're talking about?
my brother ordered these (4 lug drums) through vwparts in january and when he had mocked them up (i wasn't around) he said his 145s rubbed the fenders and he ended up narrowing his beam... did CB change them after that?

are the cb king and linkpin zero offset as well.ive just fitted a set and it seems good as far as offset is concerned

wim is talking about a linkpin, as donder has a 59

According to my information, both link-pin and balljoint dropped spindles are zero offset.

Diederiek, maybe your brother bought a set they still had in stock from the old batch. Just my opinion.

Greetz

Wim

I'm waiting for a shipent form CB and there will be a pair od BJ dropped spindles for discks I'll chceck them but I'm almost sure that they have still te 1/4" offset as the others we have in stock. I have mine for 2 years and yes they have offset. I runn repo MWS Gee bees and they push the whole wheel much outside much more than STD wheels but I was still able to put the wheel under the fender :) with the dropped CB spindles with discks and CB 2" narrowed beam

(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9659/smerftapetas1200x800es2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9659/smerftapetas1200x800es2.b680a92f72.jpg) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=65&i=smerftapetas1200x800es2.jpg)

All I know is I was uber pissed when I had to ditch my Fuch 914 2.0 liter alloys I got for 50 bucks because they wouldn't clear the bottom ball joint.  I did sell them for a considerably prettier penny, but they were the rims I really wanted for my '70, now I'm stuck with stock steelies.  ::)

That is due to the 4 3/4" backspace that a 914 wheel has. With slightly less backspace, the ball joint stays just out of the wheel. You could have had a tiny bit machined off of the inside of the wheel though, it wouldn't take much at all to make things clear.

yest that is waht you could do.

almost thesame is with my repo Gee bees, the wheel fits with the ball joint but if YOu wanna counter weight it with sticker lead things it will ther them off. I had to put typical for steal rims lead weights.

thanks chap ;) i think i also could have got away with a standard width beam.running genuine 4.5 genuine fuchs which have great offset contribute to this plus the zero offset cb spindles.although the ride quality is still good.

welcome ;)


zach, how much backspace is safe then?

does anyone know what the offset is for a 4.5" fooks?

its the same as a standard steel vw wheel.its either 43 or 45 et