The Cal-look Lounge

Started running the SS 3/8 tubing for a new fuel line last night. Anyone got any tips or tricks when it comes to routing over the torsion bar housing and then up through the stock hole in the frame horn? Just looking for any ideas to make this task a little easier.

Thanks,

--louis

tips on how to do without taking the body off would be welcome too  ;)

What I do before bending tube is to take welding rod or wire to make pattern first. Make sure not to bend tube so close to the end of tube that you can't flair the end. Just my three cents.

Feed the line all the way to the shifter coupler.  Insert a welding rod into the frame horn from the rear end until it comes out by the shifter coupler.  Guide the tube over the welding rod, then push the tube all the way back.  The welding rod will force the tube to find the hole in the frame horn.

Now thats a good idea.

Thanks!

--louis

How about running in a return line at the same time just in case you ever have upgrade to a bypass system? Save alot of hassle in the future  :)

Also when mine was done the fittings were welded onto a small plate which was then riveted on the pan, reason being, if the fittings get damaged its easier to replace and you won't 'mess up' your painted pan.If have pics if you want to see what I mean  :)

Yeah I would like to see the pics if you have them. That sounds like a good idea. As for the return line, why would you need one with IDAs?  ;)

--louis

I have IDA's and a return line ;) If your running high hp then the bypass/return system is much better than a deadhead system as the excess fuel being drawn up has somewhere to go rather than the regulator doing twice as much work holding pressure down.

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/StripTeaseRacing/59RHD/fuel_line_1.jpg)

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/StripTeaseRacing/59RHD/fuel_line_2.jpg)

Steve

Cool idea. I will have to give that some thought.

--louis

John @ Hoses Unlimited, now deceased, was like MR. 48IDA, at least up north, he helped set them up on many VW midget racers and also on GT40 Fords. Anyway, I was sent to him "to talk fuel systems" way back in 1991 when I got my 48's for my Bug. First thing he said was "you need a return system." He told me IDAs hate Holley regulators and that they run happier with a return system. I bet I should have listened to him. Specifically, he said something about cooler fuel and less chance of flooding and better needle valve control. I really don't know, but this guy knew what he was talking about... too bad I did the opposite of everything he told me.

Jim, SteveW, about return lines....coming from the regulator. Is there a chance that the carbs will be running lean, taking the less resistance on fuel pressure, is there a dependable regulator available ??????? I'm going thru the Jegs catalogue for years, but still hesitating to order. Your thoughts please.

Thanks,
Harry

Sorry Harry, only have experience with Holley Red, which for the most part, seems to work ok. You know I had issues with gauge, float tab, etc. I have a Malpassi regulator at home, (made of mag  8)) but very small NPT fittings, I don't it is designed to flow GPH that IDAs want. I will ask my Porsche customer what he uses with the 50mm PMO carbs on his hot rod stuff.

louis, I ran a AN6 braided hose through my tunnel, one piece all the way from pump to reg.

Braided line would have been easier but I like doing things the hard way lol. As for the return line, its something to think about, but I doubt I will do it. A lot of IDA cars running around out there using a Holley red reg. (Though I will not be using a Holley red pump, too noisy.) And I doubt my engine will put out over 200 hp, more like 180 - 190. (Thats the goal anyway.)  Besides it will keep me from doing something stupid like putting nitrous on the car.  ;D

Pans from WW are waiting on me at the house. Can't wait to get home to check them out. I might have a whole pan in a couple of weeks.  :)

--louis

I cannot speak from experience as this is my first 'proper' build but I have been reading and reading and what I kept hearing about was Aeromotive stuff. I decided to go with it and bought the Aeromotive street/strip pump and the Aeromotive universal bypass regulator, its expensive stuff but from what i've read, well worth it. I also got Aeromotive fuel filters too..

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/StripTeaseRacing/59RHD/aeromotive.jpg)

I guess the carb could run lean though if its not getting enough fuel, deadhead fuel pumps do tend to fail alot more because of the increased workload of them, just last weekend I was crewing on a friends 706ci motor which had a deadhead system and the left side of the motor wasn't running right, we diagnosed it down to the fuel system as the left side of the carb wasn't getting enough fuel, the fuel pressue was way off. A crew member of another team came over to look and instantly said it needs a return line. Like I say i'm no expert (at all!!) but I ask alot of questions and the bypass system makes alot of sense to me.

That is a nice setup. I have heard good stuff about Aeromotive equip from my hot rod friends. Can you limit it down to 4 psi though? I will give some more thought to a bypass line. Wonder if it would be legal to use braided for the return line. I know NHRA frowns on the use of too much braided for the main fuel system.

--louis

I will say that the Holley regs do seem to have a bad habit of dieing quickly. I had to replace one when I was running the kads on the SP motor. It stopped regulating correctly.

--louis

Yes the regulator goes down to 3 PSI. I bought the High Output street/strip fuel pump which pumps out over 90GPH at 7PSI then then I will regulate it down to 3.5PSI. Another benefit of the return system is you can test your fuel pressure without having the motor running. All you need to do is start the pump then the 'cycle' will start.

Yeah I've heard of lots of Holleys dieing too which is why I took the plunge and went for the Aeromotive kit.

This is the Holley pump I am looking at. It is supposed to be pretty quiet.

(http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=HLY-12-125&Prod=Holley+HP+Series+Fuel+Pumps&img=hly-12-125_w.jpg)

--louis

Consider using 5/16" Al tubing.  Much easier to manipulate by hand, and 5/16" is big enough to support 350hp.

A little something I did to my 62,bulkhead fittings on both ends for hardlines

Yeah I have seen that one before Danny. Really nice work. I am not sure I would have the patience to pull that off.  :D

Aluminum would be easier, but I already have the SS line.

--louis

Thanks Jim/ SteveW,
Now about the return line, on top of the tank or with a Tee under the tank ?

Thanks,
Harry

Top of the tank. I just asked this same question the other day! The answers back was top of the tank and just make sure the fuel cap is well sealed. Also if your running -6 or -8 lines with a stock tank Marty Staggs has fittings that thread onto the existing tank fitting and change it to -6 or -8. No need to weld in a fitting at the bottom then!

I made my fuel tank adapter.  I also ran my 3/8" SS hardline down the under side of the heater channel.  It came out reall clean and is out of harm's way.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/tankadapter.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/Tankadapter2.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/IMG_1498.jpg)

Neat !! I like the clamps you used to secure the line.

Hotrodvw is who I bought my fuel line ends from. If anyone needs fittings and such, he is the man.

--louis

They're called "Cush-a-clamps".  It's a rubber or vinyl sleeve that snaps around the tubing, and then the steel saddle clamps around all of it.  It isolates the tubing from rubbing on the mounting surface.  It's very secure, and has no vibration....which is a very good thing. 

looks like a good option for me when i'm not going to run a hose through the tunnel!!

louis, which holley pump are you looking at? i can't see the pic you posted...

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400178+4294925239+4294839053+4294836965+115+315471&autoview=sku

ouch, $$.
i've heard good comments about the CB rotary pump, i might go for that one.

My beef w/ the CB pump is you're stuck with hose bibs.....not threaded connections.  I am anti-clamp. 

Hard line install is going well. Anyone have a good, cheap, way to test it for leaks when I am done?

--louis

Use an AN/JIC cap on one end, and a female JIC/AN x female pipe adapter with a quick coupler nipple in the other end.  Then you can pressurize it w/ your air compressor.   8)

Thanks man. I seem to remember you sent me a AN/JIC cap with my fittings.

Thanks,

--louis

If you need more, just HOLLA!   ;D

Hi Danny,
             I really like what you have done with the bottom of the tunnel. Can you provide me with some more info on how you went about it and maybe some more pics?

Thanks
David Gouk

exactly what i said david ;)

i'll pm you the info danny gave me

That would be great Ian.

Thanks
David Gouk

Hi Steve! I really like this! A really good idea!  :)

I have thought quite a bit about the best way to run lines thorugh the tunnel, and this seems like a good practical solution which also allows for easy attachment of hoses both outside and inside the tunnel!  :)

Dude  8)

While were on the subject of running fuel lines, I was just wondering about the best way to secure fuel lines run through the tunnel?

I plan to put mine through the tunnel, but have concerns about just letting it sit on the tunnel plate, as I'm worried about them wearing through or fouling on say the shift rod, or pedal shaft etc. I know in the ideal world the best thing to do is remove the bottom plate, as has danny gabbard (amazing job dude!  :)), and run the lines through securing brackets, but has anybody secured the line in a less invasive way?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Dude  8)

It is probably cheesy but I plan to zip tie mine to the old fuel line.

--louis

Good idea, but how are you going to get into the tunnel to actually do that?

Dude  8)

Check the pics down the page:

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5840.30.html

--louis

Sorry to get off-topic, but Steve are you converting to IRS yourself ? Did you use a jig ?
Thanks,
Harry

Wow! amazing job on the spine louis!  :)

Although i might not go for permenant inspection covers, i might cut holes out to attach the  fuel line and then weld them back in.

Cheers for the inspiration.  :)

Dude  8)

Just to give props where it is due, I stole that idea from Deano's pan building article in HVWs. I am not smart enough to come up with an idea like that on my own.  ;D

--louis

Hey david ,It was a little work. But worth the effort. First I drilled out  the spot welds and being careful not to go through all the layers. Then take a thin cutting wheel on dy-grinder and cut the ends,now the fun part getting the center off the pan. Then straighten edges of the center of pan so that it lays flat again. I took 1/8 by 5/8 flat cold roll strap and drilled and counter sunk holes and then welded to edges of center of pan. now locate back on pan,clamp into location and tranfer punch holes and drill. now as far as hardware, I used aircraft nut plates that crush rivet to pan. For mounting center back on. hopefully this helps and if any question fill free to ask. sorry louis for jumping into your post.

NP Danny. Your insight is always welcome.

--louis

Hi Harry, No I didn't do it myself, one of my good friends Wayne Allman at Intergalactic Custom Shop did it for me, he was the man responsible for the fuel lines too. I would guess he uses a jig, I didn't ask though as if you have seen his work you don't have to!  :) The brackets I supplied though he had to completely modify as they just didn't fit so bear that in mind if you do it yourself!

Dude, my NOS pan has holes cut in it which i'm going to keep as inspection covers - can you imagine the pain of taking an angle grinder to a painted up and completed car to get into the tunnel? My dad had to do that to get into the shift rod bushing on a GP LDV buggy I had years ago - typically it failed a fortnight after we'd finished building it... :D

Hello Mate!  :)

Long time no speak!

Yeah i know what your saying, but part of me worries about loosing strength in the spine, and also i'm only doing it to fit fuel lines (not sure wether to use braided hose or hard line yet), and tie them up in the tunnel out the way, not a job i plan on doing more than once!

LOL! knowing my luck the hose i put in will probably be holed, and i'll have to open it up loads of times to change it!!  ;D

Dude  8)

Braided hose does NOT last forever. A hard line will outlive you.
When I installed dual fuel lines into a 74 tunnel, I used really long zip ties and some long hemostats.  You can install them around the fuel lines and zip them together with your hands completely outside the tunnel through all the existing holes.  Once they are in place, you can slide them up and down the tunnel away from where you installed them.  You've got the hole in the front of the tunnel to work through, the pedal hole, shifter hole, e-brake hole and rear inspection hole.  I think I got about a dozen in there.  Tie them to the other tubes too.

Thanks Danny for the information, I appreciate it.

David Gouk