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Title: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 13:36:09 pm New post with can be an interesting subject: what do you think about the oldspeed look..... ??? We can say that it's cal look form but with the vintage performance parts or either it's of the improved vintage
I possess that kind of car I think that for me it's yes, but once again everything depends on several factors what do you think of it ??? Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jøran Larssen on March 22, 2006, 14:00:12 pm I've seen it at Spa. Awesome car Fabian.
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 14:02:31 pm ;) thanks joran your ghia is nice too ;D
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jon on March 22, 2006, 15:11:34 pm Hi Fabian!
When I first read your post I thought "What the hell is he talking about, that car is a obvious Cal-looker!??" And then it dawned on me, Fabian is many steps ahead of us.. (in Norway anyway) He has plenty of Empi stuff on a clean bug... lowered in the nose... in my mind that automatically translates into a cal-looker. But that's how we see it today... If you look back into the magazines from 75 and later you don't see any/few cars with full on Empi parts... except for engine parts... and in the Cal-look book?? Just one GTV steering wheel shown, in the early Inch Pincher. So the parts Speedwell has on his car is a tad to old for being a "Cal-looker". Most lookers had GT style steering wheels and VDO Gauges... it seems after closer study. Today we have made a own thing out of the whole "era"... and why shouldn’t we? But I know Fabian, I'm not that picky... and I don't suppose many others are either.... your car is a perfect CAL-LOOKER Fabian! Don't be so hard on yourself! :) Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 15:16:29 pm ;D but jon , I don't want to speak only about my car but about the oldspeed movement generally
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jon on March 22, 2006, 15:31:16 pm Okay... now you sort of have my opinion... Old speed guys are welcome... if it becomes to much we will give them a own category.... even Gasser guys are welcome here... hehe!
Infact "Old speed" isn't that interesting... I think PRE-CAL is a more correct word... ?? Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 15:57:58 pm at the beginning I wanted to make my car as if it were an old cal look which would have crossed the time but whose owner would have put empi parts and others at the time where it had built it and I always put myself the question why not,such a car could not not existed because nobody never built it ;D ;)
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Pekka on March 22, 2006, 16:47:48 pm If you look back into the magazines from 75 and later you don't see any/few cars with full on Empi parts... except for engine parts... and in the Cal-look book?? Just one GTV steering wheel shown, in the early Inch Pincher. So the parts Speedwell has on his car is a tad to old for being a "Cal-looker". Most lookers had GT style steering wheels and VDO Gauges... it seems after closer study. Today we have made a own thing out of the whole "era"... and why shouldn’t we? Don't forget the wheels, BRM and Spyder... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jordy/DVK on March 22, 2006, 16:48:21 pm I'm gonna fit a Shorrock supercharger to my Old-School '67 (model 68) bug. Shorrocks were available from I guess the middle of the 60ies.
My Fat Lip Formula Vee wheels were available from about '68 so that's also a period correct accessory... With a period-looking California exhaust, my bug will have the looks of a factory bug with some old tuning parts fitted to it... I'm sure not every bug got de-chromed and "de-bumpered" back in those days... While some owners are looking into the future when it comes to the engine some look in the past... If an Old Speed car wouldn't be a 'correct' looker a 70ies looker with MSD would be just as incorrect... I think it's not about the exact period correctness of a car but more about the guidelines you follow. Cal-look is about 'speed', so the accessories should only be speed-related. And whether those are modern Hi-po parts or old tuning parts that should not matter. Also "form-follows-function". The rear end should be up because of the big tyres you need to transfer the HP's onto the strip. Don't add useless heavy accessories But you don't neccesarily have to remove parts either to loose weight. It just how far you want to go with it... that's my view... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 18:19:56 pm jordy for you on my car there is too much accesory ??? simple question thanks
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jordy/DVK on March 22, 2006, 18:35:08 pm jordy for you on my car there is too much accesory ??? simple question thanks As far as I can see all your accessories are speed related. Extra air vents for more cooling, extra gauges to monitor the engine, a quick shifter, lightweight sportseats... I think that's ok for an old speed car... The post above just reflects my opinion... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Frank LUX on March 22, 2006, 18:58:53 pm Hi Speedy,
Sorry for this, but thrue Cal-Looks have Real Horsepower and most of the time run IDA's......... ;) That why we call Cars like yours (Really nice car anyway!!!) Old-Speed...... ;D ;D ;D I added a Picture just for you to remember... ;) Frank Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jordy/DVK on March 22, 2006, 19:21:18 pm Sorry for this, but true Cal-Looks have Real Horsepower and most of the time run IDA's......... ;) I can't agree with you... sorry.. Big HP is relative... I bet the first owner of my Shorrock had quite a fast car back then! And if your using that drawing as a guideline; I could name a few things from the famous "Cal-look" sheet that aren't present on your car... ;) Ofcourse old-speed is old-speed but I definately see it as a form of Cal-look... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Frank LUX on March 22, 2006, 19:54:34 pm Sorry for this, but true Cal-Looks have Real Horsepower and most of the time run IDA's......... ;) I can't agree with you... sorry.. Big HP is relative... I bet the first owner of my Shorrock had quite a fast car back then! And I could name a few things from the famous "Cal-look" sheet that aren't present on your car as far as I can see in your avatar... ;) Ofcourse old-speed is old-speed but I definately see it as a form of Cal-look... I do agree with you that I don't have a dechromed body, or this "Talbot" Mirror....... ;) But already back in the day when this "How to build a cal-look" was published it was all about Horsepower!!! :P Don't get me wrong, an Old-Speed Car is part of the Cal-Look Scene and I do want to see such Cars in Meetings, especially if they are equiped with nice O.G. EMPI Stuff, but for me a real Cal-look needs to have the look and the ponies that go with it!!! ;) Concerning your Shorrock Supercharger, if your motor makes 220HP like the one in the "Inch Pincher" back then, yes your car is thrue Cal-Look to me too.... ;) Frank Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jon on March 22, 2006, 22:05:55 pm That why we call Cars like yours (Really nice car anyway!!!) Old-Speed...... ;D ;D ;D Hi Frank, Don't you feel that a Old-speed car has to have full rideheight and mostly bolt-on tuning in the engine compartment...? Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 22, 2006, 22:07:27 pm I can't agree with you... sorry.. Big HP is relative... Ofcourse old-speed is old-speed but I definately see it as a form of Cal-look... I agree with you jordy ,at the beginning there was still 48 ida while our checks old kit already existed 8) Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: SplitMan on March 23, 2006, 10:58:37 am Great debate!
Again I see similarities between the "hot rod"-movement and the "cal-look" movement. Those two specific terms were both invented in California, first in mid-40-ies, then in mid-70-ies. But - oh my God - before and after that...AND...all over the world the "universal idea" of "making your car go fast" stood/stands strong. The fiftes brought German dual carb kits, "Atogas"-systems, Lemmertz wheels and exhaust systems that was all just that - making your bug go a little faster. The USA had it's Judsons and headers and fancy shifter already when Beetle-sales took off in the mid-fifties. The desire for speed and the market for such comes with volume sales of - in this case - the Beetle. When the "Cal Look" term appeared in early seventies it was quite specific and geographically limited. As mentioned...before that...and by all means ... after that...people have made their bugs go a little faster on both sides of the atlantic. "Weekend warriors" that took their bug to a little auto-slalom in the weekend. With some wider wheels and a sweet Judson in the back. There would be many terms we need to invent if we were to cover all types, alle eras and all continents.. Today..."Cal Look" is sort of "nose down big engine"..."Old Speed" is "all the other cool, period correct bugs. With "hot sodd" Mr Soddli tries to coin the "50-60 euro racing style".... Relying on DAS, I guess "old speed" is purely pre-1960 .... then we need a term for the "post-1960 weekend warriors".. Too many words....too much ramblings...from a drunken man....Sorry. Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 23, 2006, 18:53:24 pm i've the two in one i'm oldspeed & cal look ;D
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Frank LUX on March 23, 2006, 19:19:11 pm i've the two in one i'm oldspeed & cal look ;D That's more cal-look already...!!!! ;D ;D ;D Frank Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Frank LUX on March 23, 2006, 19:21:32 pm BTW....
An Engine case without silver Paint and an O.G. Santana Power Pulley would look really Sweet on your Car, Speedy.... ;) Frank Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Andi/DFL on March 23, 2006, 21:04:49 pm As discussed in the other thread (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?topic=54.0), I think, that a big engine or IDAs is nice, but absolutely not necessary.
This is a cal looker. Call it Oldspeed (for me "oldspeed" is just a phrase for a certain kind of cal looker) , if you want, but it's surely a true cal looker for me. (http://www.nose-down.de/blog/images/shows/y04/bit04/IMG_5557.jpg) Regarding your car, I would love to see the sprintkit, not the IDAs. just because it's rare and really adorable! cheers, andi Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: SilverPig on March 23, 2006, 21:13:09 pm There you go...many of the early cars weren't even lowered at the front. When did select-a-drop appear on the market anyway?
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Luftkraft on March 24, 2006, 09:15:13 am That black dkp1-style oval is really nice but it's pre-callook, definitely NOT callook. Nosedown-stance is mandatory on a cal look car, together with a hot engine (not necessarily with IDAs) and a nice set of wheels with big n'littles. Oldspeed is a term used for cars with period correct bolt-on hop up parts, mostly on a 30hp engine or with a transplanted 356 motor, no or maybe a little lowering.
just my $ 0.02 Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Andi/DFL on March 24, 2006, 09:32:28 am I think it's a mistake to divide this cars into
it's a subculture in a subculture, no need to give it 3425 different names. i completely lost the overview of all this and think it's annoying. it's not what cal look should be: plain and simple. cheers andi Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Turtle001 on March 24, 2006, 09:37:16 am restocal :P :P :P :P :P :P
;D Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jon on March 24, 2006, 09:44:34 am I'm with you LuftKraft!
There is such a thing as Pre-Cal-look... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on March 24, 2006, 13:47:29 pm As discussed in the other thread (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?topic=54.0), I think, that a big engine or IDAs is nice, but absolutely not necessary. thanks andi you right , for me the sprintkit is the most beautiful aftermarket speed kit ;)This is a cal looker. Call it Oldspeed (for me "oldspeed" is just a phrase for a certain kind of cal looker) , if you want, but it's surely a true cal looker for me. (http://www.nose-down.de/blog/images/shows/y04/bit04/IMG_5557.jpg) Regarding your car, I would love to see the sprintkit, not the IDAs. just because it's rare and really adorable! cheers, andi regard fabian Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Gunnar|Rennfahrer on March 24, 2006, 13:58:40 pm Just name the different cars style the way you want, we are all different, so are our cars.
When i had my '65 1300 on show at Bug Run 2000, They gave me a spot in the Resto area. And my car was nose down, with big and little's, and it had no accesories!!! Exept in the engine compartment. What the f..k!! RESTO... No way. Cal look must only be specified by era, not by style. Cal look were Cal look in the 80'ies aswell, and at that time that ment lowered to the ground, graphics, almost no chrome trim, and pastel paint schemes. To me today, CAl look is about Big and little's, nose down, and HP, i dont need alot of them just more than oem. And i don't want alot of that Chrome shit!!! Chrome is for bumpers!! Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jon on March 24, 2006, 14:07:36 pm I think it's a mistake to divide this cars into
it's a subculture in a subculture, no need to give it 3425 different names. i completely lost the overview of all this and think it's annoying. it's not what cal look should be: plain and simple. cheers andi Hi Andy, I get your point... But there is just one style; Cal-look :-) Pre-Cal-look is no style, it's just how the cars looked before CAL LOOK... easy realy... :) Old Speed is a DDD therm... Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Luftkraft on March 24, 2006, 14:20:08 pm Phew, sometimes it'd be that easy ;D you got it, JHU. Well let's get back to the subject before it's gettin too complicated ::) I don't feel like studying callookism
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Frank LUX on March 25, 2006, 07:41:24 am That black dkp1-style oval is really nice but it's pre-callook, definitely NOT callook. Nosedown-stance is mandatory on a cal look car, together with a hot engine (not necessarily with IDAs) and a nice set of wheels with big n'littles. Oldspeed is a term used for cars with period correct bolt-on hop up parts, mostly on a 30hp engine or with a transplanted 356 motor, no or maybe a little lowering. just my $ 0.02 I'm with you LuftKraft! There is such a thing as Pre-Cal-look... I'm totally with you guys....!!! Frank Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Jordy/DVK on March 25, 2006, 13:14:36 pm I guess it's most important that everyone thinks and understands that the Old Speed look, and the Old School Cal Look are two different styles that form a perfect combination or complement to eachother. Better than any two styles... It's not in the name, it's in the spirit... And I guess those are quite alike for the two styles discussed... And whatever name you attach to it I do like both... :) Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Lee.C on March 25, 2006, 16:48:09 pm Hi there guys - its taken me a while to read all this thread but I do agree with a lot of you - you see these days I think we all get a bit obsessed with buying up Original Empi/vintage parts - in my mind people back in the day just did what ever they could to make their VW go a little faster, handle a bit better and most of all look a bit cooler.
I used to be obsessed with only buying Original Empi parts until I spent a load of money (read as too much ;)) on an original empi Eliminator Shifter, now this shifter looked AMAZING but when it came to driving hard (read as racing my friends) it would let me down nearly every time - hitting reverse instead of second!! so that got sold and I brought myself a "Sparkomatic" Formula Vee style shifter which looks almost as good but works perfctly I guess what I am trying to say is - Don't just sucked into thinking you have to have all matching Empi parts because in truth no one did back in the day so why should we. IMHO I prefer Race Trim parts anyway ;) Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Shubee2 (DSK) on December 13, 2006, 04:03:03 am I think it's a mistake to divide this cars into
it's a subculture in a subculture, no need to give it 3425 different names. i completely lost the overview of all this and think it's annoying. it's not what cal look should be: plain and simple. cheers andi Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: alex d on December 13, 2006, 10:38:35 am uhmmmmmm, interesting discussion, my thoughts are that a Cal Look car can be at the same time an Old Speed car, I'll explain later, now i have to have breakfast ;D
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: alex d on December 13, 2006, 11:14:56 am for example:
a 68 with a 88x69 (empi slipper skirts), type 3 ported dual port heads, Sig Earson camshaft, a pair of Solex 40P11s, 4 lug sprintstars, period steering wheel, original empi quickshift, original Empi camber compensator and sway bar, etc. would qualify as an old speed in my book, as it has all period-correct speed equipment. If you lower the front (pulling leaves, selec-a-drop, cut'n turn), then it becomes a cal looker too, doesn't it? take the same 68 but change the engine for a 2332 with DRLAS and it will be just a cal looker (and faster), but it won't be an old speed car, as the go-fast part is not period-correct. usually when one hears of old speed, thinks of Judson superchargers, Speedwell, Okrasa, TDE and the like, but a 100% period correct looker would qualify as well in my book. Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: jick on December 13, 2006, 12:53:44 pm i dont care what you call it, it's still one of my favourite cars of the last few years. ;D
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: bathing ape on December 13, 2006, 19:39:58 pm your car is class,lovely :-*
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: . on December 14, 2006, 03:24:23 am I'm gonna fit a Shorrock supercharger to my Old-School '67 (model 68) bug. Shorrocks were available from I guess the middle of the 60ies. Hey Jordy !I am using a Shorrock Supercharger also ! ;D Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: streetvw on December 14, 2006, 18:15:35 pm my UNcles 67 circa 76
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/streetvw/uncleDavesbug4.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/streetvw/uncleDavesbug2.jpg) had this in it (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/streetvw/DSCF1444.jpg) 1679 single port shorrock super charged beasty Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: speedwell on December 14, 2006, 19:27:19 pm cool shorrock waouww :o
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: streetvw on December 14, 2006, 19:29:51 pm yeah it was a big bugger as well, origonally designed for a 2.5ltr daimler V8 engine
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/streetvw/DSCF1447.jpg) Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: . on December 14, 2006, 21:43:36 pm Streetvw,
Didn't you sell that motor on e-bay ? ??? Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: streetvw on December 14, 2006, 22:39:05 pm yep!! my uncle passed away in Feb 2005 :'( and we had to sell a lot of his stuff off , the motor ended up going to Denver in the US and was said to be destin for te rear end of a ghia!!
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Zach Gomulka on December 15, 2006, 05:29:12 am yep!! my uncle passed away in Feb 2005 :'( and we had to sell a lot of his stuff off , the motor ended up going to Denver in the US and was said to be destin for te rear end of a ghia!! I think I know the Ghia!!! He is a cool guy, I met him this past summer, Too bad I cant remember his name :( He also bought the Race Trim breather from me- it was NOS. Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Zach Gomulka on December 15, 2006, 05:30:25 am More...
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Turtle001 on December 15, 2006, 09:49:11 am fingerlickin!
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: . on December 15, 2006, 21:35:36 pm Yes, That's Howard's Ghia, but not the Shorrock he bought from "streetvw".
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Lee.C on December 16, 2006, 00:04:27 am small world guys - Also I have never seen a Race Trim breather box like that one - SICK ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: oldspeed!!!!!!......cal look or not cal look???????? Post by: Zach Gomulka on December 16, 2006, 04:19:45 am small world guys - Also I have never seen a Race Trim breather box like that one - SICK ;D ;D ;D As far as I know there are 3 different versions, that one being the latest. I didnt have the heart to take it out of the package and do the modifications to it that I wished, so I found a pair of early ones :) |