The Cal-look Lounge

Nothing wrong with running a big 2332+, besides the $$$

But necessary for fast street car? Don't look down your nose @ 2000cc and under.

We've had these topics before, small old school motors, 12 sec 1776's and so on.

Thing is 12 second et in a VW is bordering on psychotic! A 14 sec ride is enough to open your eyes, especially in something as raw as a VW Bug. A good running 1776 should easily dip into the 14's, and easily hold its own at the stoplight showdown. A better running 1776, yes in street tune, welcome to the 13's. Thing is, so many 1776's, etc. get shortchanged with the monkey-see, monkey do recipe...  110 Engle, low CR, crusty out of the box heads. Leaves too much on the table. So the general consensus is "you gotta build a 2276 to make any hp", and nobody takes the smaller cc stuff seriously.

In the 1990's I helped guys with a few fast smaller cc motors, all 14 second or faster motors, the fastest being a 12.80 1914. None of them were what I would call grenades, a few of them were daily drivers. One had some serious $ into it, and it was the daily driver 1679.

I guess the point here is to spread acceptance of stock stroke motors.... and to convince guys that you can have a fast ride with one. No reason to look past building a 1776, K8, 40 x 35 heads with the kinks worked out, 9.0:1 and some 44mm + carbs.  Simple and easy recipe for a 13 sec car.

I dont know about you but my wife say's size does matter  :D

Is that why she has the neighbor's housekey?

Hey Jim.  For those of us that haven't spent 1/2 of our lives around HOT aircooled cars, can you detail driving impressions between similar state-of-tune engines?  Head, cams, compression all similar or the same, but one motor with stock stroke, and one with increased stroke?

I can dig a stock-stroke motor, but for me at least, the draw of a stroker seems to come from the notion that the engine will have a totaly different "attitude"—a whole other level of "hot rod".

I don't mean to take your post into an unintended direction so I'll apologize ahead of time.   ;)

Hi Jim

I am working on an old school 88x78,4 engine at this time for 2 reasons .1 i have all the parts in stock , good used , some i advertised but nobody wants them . 2 reason is to look what i can go on the track with it . I am realistic and watch out for 180 hp and 12 's . The engine must be good for street use also . Some do more power but i think it is what you can get on normaly aspirated engine and street use . All parts are used and the engine is not so expensive . Only on the heads i have to spend a lot of work

Udo

I think a lot of it is a cost issue... why build a 1776 when a 1915 costs the same? Why use a 78 crank when a 82+ is only $30 more? And so it begins... for better or worse ::)
But I do agree with you... I surprised quite a few 2+ liter VW's and 5.0 Mustangs with my little 14 sec hot rod 1600. It was fun telling people that it was just a stock size motor with a couple carbs on it ;)

Hi Udo, the 1900ccm 88 x 78 is a combination I've long had my eye on, and wanted to build. Are you using 88 'b' pistons? My idea would be a 88 x 78, 42 x 37 welded VW heads, egg port, short manifolds, 48IDA, 9.7:1, Engle FK87 with 1.5, Vertex. Maybe someday. This would go in a stock height 1967 Bug, maybe Enkei 5 spokes, loss of bumpers.
I'm curious how yours turns out.


Hi Mike, I drove all of these motors to some extent, and have some impressions I can still remember. The only one I remember being really cold blooded and super cammy/hot tempered was the 1914 12.81 motor. It had an FK10, huge welded heads off of a midget, 40mm venturies in IDAs, 1-3/4 header. Otherwise, they were all very strong under all rpm/load/throttle position. Bryan Wenzel's 1679 was the motor that really stuck out. You could roll off from a standstill, get rpm just above idle, then floor it and the car would transfer weight and shoot ahead. the Webers sang like pipe organs as the rpms came up. this was a stock valved motor, but had the grunt of a high lift, big valve motor.
I remember this guy Dan Ruble I built a 1776 for, he was absolutely horrified that I wanted to put a Web Cam 86B in. I did it anyway. This was a low CR (under 9:1), very mild 40 x 5 heads, 1.4 rockers, the 86B, and 48IDAs. Oh he was panicking that the motor would nosedive under 4K. Once we got it broken in and dialed in, I took him for a ride, and did the same thing, just rolled it off idle, not much throttle, just basically idling around in 1st gear, then stuffed the throttle and he about fell into the back seat. Bate's 1776 "Heather Lane War" motor was another one. It was strong as a bull off idle, and just kept pulling (unfortunately, this motor had a bad flat spot in the progression area that we never really got rid of).
I guess the best thing I have noticed about a stroker vs a stock stroke? It's gotta be that everything happens sooner and stronger. But this is in no way saying that a high ouput 1776 is weak in its delivery. I remember when I first went 82mm in my car, and even though it had big Super Flows and 48's and GB 311 cam, it responded RIGHT NOW to the throttle. The 1776/1914's.... it's not like they laid down and gave up, they just didn't give the same intense push in the back immediately. But still very fast by any standards.
Hope that helps.

Definitely the key for a small size engine.  What size valves do you plan to use?

Had my share of 1700's over the years with a single two barrel, 40P11's and IDA's and I thought they all ran good and were an easy build.  You can make a lot out of very little if you put your mind to it.

Hey Jim, that's what I was looking for.  Thanks.  I do intend to rework my 1835 in a few years.  Have a c/w 69 sitting waiting for it.  Probably end up a small-valve IDA motor, hopefully.  We'll see.

Perfect. K8 makes a nice cam for 1835 too

HAHA. I laughed out loud to that one.

Jim, when I drive around in my 1914, 86b, 40x35.5s, IDAs etc. I always think it must be INSANE to drive a 2276 with similar or more radical components/tune on the street. They must be like bullets! I would probably get thrown in jail, or not have a license if I owned one. ;D My next motor may or may not be bigger. I will probably just ask friends what nice, useable they have and go from there. 88x78 sounds fun!

definetly alot of recipes out there.standard stroke still builds a fast motor.like jim said dont be blinded by size a 14 sec motor on the roads gonna shock the boys for sure ;)

wonderful topic jim! 

very interesting.. and this is one of the things that keeps me awake at night haha

the common concesus says..bore it if ur gona Bore it.. and stroke it accordingly.. 

for more power or if u want sumthing like 150ish..

we have lesser discussions on displacement to whp ratio..  the bigger the motor.. and make 150-170  sounds OK  but better if it was a little smaller in the displacement..  not to prove anything.. but just to make things fun..

85.5x74 , 88x74, 88x76 to ur eye catcher 88x78 hehe 
i guess the smaller details on the build itself is what will make the engine work.. from "ok" to "good" to excellent

maybe the 88 bore and a little lower r/s ratio would emulate a similar breathing demand from a lets say... 94mm p/c 

than maybe figure out a cam that would help or work along those lines?
very interesting topic indeed..and  il keep an eye on this..  to learn more.. yeah i need to learn a ton more haha

Mark Herberts story hijacked from the Cal Look site (small motor w/ N2O or big motor no N2O) your choice

Good topic Jim!  I'm about ready to yank out my 1641, and am torn between a turbo for it, or lots of head work and a cam.  I'm liking the N/A idea more and more.  I was driving thru some hills on my way home the other day, w/ a Porsche Boxster behind me, riding my butt.  I held my own thru the hills, but I wanna run away from them.   ;D

I have some original 311 castings , welded them on and under the intake ports , 42x35,5 valves relocated 12 mm spark plugs . This is the best way to get a good head that makes power and keeps cool because of the original  casting . This are heads for live , i never had any problems with cooling or cracks . I have a set of this in original 041 castings that made 225 hp on a 2,4 engine on the circuit track
Pistons are from Wahl , this is the one that makes racing pistons for mahle, very strong and lightweight pistons that i ordered 10 years ago for a circuit racing engine.
Regarding to the cam i think about a Pauter

Udo

In real life may be not  :D
But if you want to go fast on the track you need big sizes (big pistons and long rods) ;D

Udo

I buy my parts from a guy in France. I never meet him, but he gives so much advices through the Net that I found normal to buy my parts from him.

From time to time, he gives some parts combo that work well, are affordable from a €€ view but also from a technical point. He says that a well build 1585cc is a very fun engine that will not cost you a kidney and will last as long as you service it correctly.
A 1600cc with a vz25, basically ported and polished heads with dual springs 8.5cr, dual 40mm carbs with 34 vent is able to run a 15.5 with a stock gearbox.
Or a 1600cc with Webcam 122/125 // 105° lobe center + 2° advance , 9.1cr is a very hot engine he says.

When I ask him what kind of engine I should build to put in a street and strip bug he advices me a 69*94, webcam 86b +1.4, 041 reworked heads or 044cnc, 48IDF. I was planning to build a 78*90.5 but he says that I will have lot's of fun with this a stocker and with the money I save on the cranck I could buy better heads.

Lot's of people dream  to put a fun and powerful motor in their car, but are dishearten because they think they have to build a 12sec thing to have fun. 12sec is the time of cars as Ferrari or Porsche 997 Turbo. That's not common car.
As Jim says, 14 sec is fast enough to have fun.

Years ago, Type III casting were what Fumio used for my sandrail heads. He said the same as you about the cooling and durability.  The intake ports were welded on quite a bit and the plug holes were relocated as well.  Valve size was 40X35.5.  Those pistons sound like they're pretty nice.... ;)

If the heads are ready i post some pictures of heads and pistons . But i think the CB 88 piston and cylinders that need case boring are also good for this kind of engine .

Udo

For this you need 115-125 hp at the engine

Udo

This is great for me.  I see small combos popping up.......which is what I need.   ;)

VZ25 in under 1700cc IS a potent combo....that's what I ran in high school and nicked off a few V8's

perfect thread

in keith seume's cal-look book you can read very important things... page 51 about aronson's car: he then stepped up to an 1800cc engine with an engle 130 cam, 10.5:1 compression ratio, a close ratio transmission and a pair of recapped slicks. a further trip to the drag strip resulted in a 13.50 timing slip. in aronson's words, it was a real bear to drive on the street with such a high-lift, long duration camshaft coupled with the close-ratio gears. he therefore replaces the camshaft with another engle 110, lowered the compression ratio and then rebuild the transmission with stock gear ratios. with pirellis back on it , the car still ran a healthy 13.86- second quarter mile."
what more can i say?!?  many people use to big cams, to big valves, to close-ratios gears,to big cranks, to much compression,the list goes on. no fun on the street and  only a little bit faster at the quarter mile :o :o :o

i like to drive my car on the street and ready for a stop light race without rebuilding it every few weeks.

dirk zeyen

Always had 88's on my motor.  As Bill Schwimmer calls it a buss motor. But always happy with the times it runs and comfortable to drive on the street

hello dave rhoads,

you changed the valve size from 40/35.5 to 42/37.5 is there a big difference?

dirk zeyen

I don't know where it came from but the exhaust is still 35.5mm.  The intake was changed due to a flow improvement that went the wrong way.   But with the 42 valve the velocity came back and the times improved back into the twelves again.

Dave you, your car, your engine, all big inspiration for me and a lot of other guys too. Seeing you run your car @ Phoenix 1990....  priceless.

much repsect,
Jim

bus motors usually have 90.5's now...

hello dave,

look at the DKP-SITE, there is your valve-size 42/37.5 ;) i only read carefull..
thanks for information!!!
so there is no improvment with that bigger valve.
nowadays engines get bigger but not better.

fantastic car, like ratto said, don't sell it!!!

dirk zeyen

I'm building 2 engines and one is a 1904(74x90.5) with w125,42x37 heads,45mm dells or maybe 48's,10.0 cr and the other one is a old skool 1679 engine with w120 cam,40x35.5 heads with 40mm dells or 48 IDA's with 9.5 cr.

I ran a similar 1679 engine when i started in callook which ran in the 14's(stock 4.37 gearbox with superdiff) and i ran a 1914cc engine with 42x37 heads,IDA's and w130cam with a close ratio gearbox in the 13's

I think like one posted here is the why buy a 78 crank if a 82 is 30$ more kinda attitude and like Jim Ratto once said alot are building
the internet engines and copying alot what others are doing without really knowing why. 8)

The trend I've seen (W/o knowing much about engine building) is people building huge detuned stokers.  Big CC's, low compression, mild cams, etc...  Personally, I'd almost have the smaller high strung motor as long as it's streetable.   8)

The 78 is stronger and the case lasts longer . I use it because i have a good used okrasa crank in stock  ;)
A 78 or smaller with VW journals is the strongest crank , except one with porsche journals
Udo

About the valves sizes, lot's of people think that bigger is better, but with big valves, don't you think there is a loose of flow speed?
The volume of gaz will increase, but if there is too much "room" the speed will decrease?

I was thinking about that.  ;)

J-F,

Volumetric efficiency has a lot of factors.  Bigger Valves are almost a must with bigger bores if you want maximum horsepower.  There is a relationship between valve size and the size and volume of the cylinder.  Cam, carburetion, compression, port work, all play an integral part.

One of the things I did on my 2110 street motor, in the mid 90's, was use big block type technology.  I figured I would build the motor relatively big (not compared to a 94x84) and use a mild cam and mildly modified heads. At the time, Dean Lowry did my 40x35.5 heads for me, since he was conveniently close to me here in Phoenix.  I ran a PAUTER cam, 15/8 header and MSD ignition.  I was not going for being the fastest on the block.  I wanted it to be capable of driving anywhere, at any time, without any concerns.

I really like small motors. It was about all I could affored to build when first in the hobby in the early 70's.  My first motor was an 87x69 with a crazy Sig Erson cam, Sig Erson bushed rockers (boy where they soft material) and a holley two barrel. Later, I put 44 webers on it.  After dropping a valve in #3, I bought a Bud Whitfield 74mm stroker (Cast rull circular crank - WEBER [not the carburetor mfg]  also made them), some 92s from DDS, along with my first set of 48's, a Norris drag cam and ran an 010 distributor and fortuned exhaust.   I ended up with a 1968cc motor.  While the stroker motor pulled with noticeably more torque,  the old 87 motor was an RPM machine and still very fun.  One of the reasons I dropped valve is I was always tisting it too tight.  Still,  I have a personal preference for strokers, even though I am very impressed with the performance of my first stock stroke in a long time.  I built a driver motor for my chop top that is a fun ride.  I know I could get it into the 14s easily with a better trans.

Every motor combination will have different requirements. Since the late70's and to date, I have always run stroker cranks, of all sizes.  I like the extra bottom end torque and pull they add to the ride.  What makes engine building so much fun is trying so many different things.  I just short blocked a 94x84 motor over the weekend with a K7 cam I am going to try.  It will have CNC heads (CB style), 42 x 37, 1.4 rockers, 1 5/8 exhaust and my IDAs are going on it after I get the motor broke in on the 44s.  I've been working with the COMPUFIRE Ignition. This is the first time I have run it. I has multiple coils and a pointless distributor. It has worked well on the 1915motor that has been in the chop top.  I will transplant that motor into my oval now that it is fully broke in.

Build what you like and can afford. One thing I am a big believer in is the stock heads for their cooling capability.  My 2110 that Dean Lowry did the heads on were built on stock VW dual ports, welded and then bigger seats installed.  They were very efficient and that particular motor ran cool even in the Arizona heat. Tested it out on a drive to Detroit, Michigan, and back to Phoenix, in 1997.  Close friend Don Bulitta and I left in early May and hit 110 degree temps on our way through the desert heat, from Phoenix through Vegas and on up to Salt Lake City, where we met Art Thraen.  My motor never went past 210 on the entire trip and back east actually ran so cool I was a little worried about it. Big motors can be just as reliable as small engines. Don't let size worry you.  If you plan to drive it a lot...just don't overcam it for the application.  If it is a Friday night warrior, a burger joint cruiser, or a short drive to work car, throw a killer cam in it and have fun.  Application needs to be considered when building it so you are not unhappy with the outcome.

Any engine combination, if purpose built, needs to be assembled with the same thoroughness.  I focus on good oiling and paying attention to all the factory type clearances on things like play on the rods (side clearances), oil pump clearance on the gears to the face of the full flow cover, rods being straight and bored end to end for alignment, balancing, how you set up your rocker geometry, lifter bore mods for better oiling, checking the seating surfaces for the oil relief pistons, and all the little things that make a big difference no matter what size your motor.  Everyone has learned things from trial and error.  Those seem to be the things we remember most.

This forum has the equivalent of generations of experience.  You should be able to gain a lot of great insights from the years of experience that comment on this site.

Rick M

This post has inspired me... I'd love to build a faster 1776 using my existing engine in my '70 (no, not the cast crank, .060 line bored case I just bought cheap, hehe)... I'd love to see what I could do with a nonstroker engine, especially since I have the goods available for further build up.

That's where Im at Ryan.  What can I make my 1641 do exactly??............Other than blow up.   ;D

Awesome topic Ratto,

The old adage, "its not the size that matters, its the way you use it".

Just what a lot of people have already said, there are applications and budgets for both types of engines, I guess it comes down to where in the RPM range you want to make the most power.

We all know well balanced stock stroke engines with the right parts can be made to rev and rev some more, while strokers can be built to provide a lot more bottom end torque using a short rod ratio. With the addition of welded, ported heads like Fumios, Timms, Bergs etc. wilder cam, longer H-beams, solid valve train, induction and exhaust, close ratio box, both motors can start seeing 12sec and still be streetable.

I personally think that heaps of guys are too conservative on cam selections and too hung up on off the shelf parts, ie.heads, therefore trying to salvage their budget.

Currently building two engines: one stroker as below, one 1776  ;) with mostly stock internals, usual mods, GB310, dual springs, straight cuts, light rotating assembly, 48 idfs, 1/58, etc.

AS41 shuffle pinned, full flow, tapped galleys, sump etc.
84mm crank
90.5b Bergs
5.5 Pauter rods
V9E0 Pauter cam
straight cuts
Scat lifters
1.4 Scat Rockers
Cro-mo pushrods
45 Dells
1 5/8
Ex Race heads 42x37.5, welded, K800, Berg retainers & lash caps

(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m208/benito26/heads/DSC00844.jpg)


(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m208/benito26/heads/DSC00839.jpg)

Fish, thanks. The heads pictured resemble a few of the heads I have used, namely the heads that were put to good use on the 1914 FK10 48IDA motor that pulled front wheels, and went 12.81. also port shape is very similar to Pauter "A" heads I ran on my street motor in the very early 1990's and then were later put on Sheep's 1914, K8 48IDA street motor.

I agree with you. Too many people adhere to the unfounded fear that an aggressive cam is going make a smaller motor a soggy soft mashed potato. If the larger cams were coupled with proper heads (notice I didn't say huge hogged out tunnel ports!) and intake and exhaust, the results are nothing to be afraid of..... unless you have a fear of speed or have no brakes. Of course, this statement is only aimed at those that want a higher output than the garden variety 90.5x69, Engle 110, etc etc etc. And of course, it is aimed at those that are aware of the fact that they are going to have to drive it with the powerband taken into consideration. I wouldn't tell somebody with a Bus to build a 1776 with Engle 125 or K8 and welded VW heads and 44mm+ carbs.

I just think it's a shame that so many people dodge really squeezing some hp from "what they have" and instead, wring their hands in frustration and anxiety over aftermarket aluminum cases and very long stroke cranks, and a host of expensive aftermarket parts, that may or may not work together. In the 1990's, this became common at the shop I worked at. The engine builder would line up a big 2332cc, Street Eliminator heads, big Sact crank, aftermarket rods, etc etc etc.... thousands of $'s.  And in the end, since the heads were out of the box and he always erred on the (way) conservative side of cam choice.....often selecting an Engle 110. It would frustrate the brains out of me! We had a customer dump big $ into this big lazy unresponsive "truck motor", and one of my friend's little 1776/W125/44IDFs would clean its clock, for a lot less fuss and $.

Sure big cc engines do impress. They're brawny, rumbly, and sometimes downright terrifying, snorting and growling and trying to get out past the trans back there. But they are expensive, complex, and unfortunately, I think that kind of discourages guys, and sort of divides the hobby, as much as I hate to see it. The general belief is if you aren't 2000cc +, you aren't serious. Hogwash!
Remember, once you build those great big lungs of a 2200+ thing, you need to fill them with a lot of air. Why build a big dinosaur that can't run on good VE?
The stock stroke stuff deserves more credit. The Volkswagen engine is a jewel to hot rod. The quality of so many of the stock parts is such that they can survive as a team member that is willing to triple the stock hp level. How many other cars out there allow a guy to build a simple motor in his garage taht can double or triple the original HP?
You guys that wonder if you should "even bother" with hotrodding a smaller cc engine....  I can tell you from experience.... you're going to get more enjoyment and fun out of just going for it than waiting and saving and waiting and then soemtimes maybe just getting burnt out or compromising the quality somewhere. The VW motor can take it, I drove my super-tuned little 1641 for years, without a worry, without a problem, and without losing many street races.
Hope this helps..
Jim

Hi guys,
what is so wrong with an internet motor?
I think i have one: maybe you know the specs: CNC heads, ....
but if you have no experience ( no flow bench, cam knowledge,...)
i do not know at all if my heads complement the cam and compression well
actually i dont know anything about that :)
so what options do you have other then ask experienced people if you want to build it yourself?
isnt it better to build a "known or similar" recipe?
if i

if i am now not happy with the motor, i use the trial and error method and try something different

what do you think?

what makes you unhappy with it?

Jim, you are right about what you said, far too many people don't take the time to research before they out lay money for parts or even complete engine and yes the stock German parts are more than capable of handling 2-3 times more HP than stock, key is good machine work, right tolerances, balancing and purpose.

Ruff, it sounds like you have the money to spend on trial and error if you're not building it yourself, I think the whole idea of this topic is to make people more aware of what can be done in ones own garage with a little guidance from the pros willing to share their information and I have by no means anywhere near their level of knowledge, just giving it a go mate.
It also depends on what you mean by internet motor? Purchased on the net or built by ones self with input from people on the net.


Big Engine - big lungs, big heads, big cam, high compression, more suck, bang, blo ;D,  more snap but also piston side load with short ratio, more $$$, more broken gearboxes.

Small Engine - smaller lungs, port velocity, medium compression 8.5:1, max 40 x 35 valves HD springs, I personally like stock cast heads with home porting, anyone that can operate a dremmel can do their own head work, plenty of step by step posts out there, match ported manifolds, med cam Pauter T2 or GB 309, rockers to suit, 44idf, merged headers, etc.
This engine is a blast to drive in any street beetle, ghia or T3, won't cost a lot to build and should pull 14-15sec. Thats fast by any muscle car/ricer  standards.

In practice both engines can be built to run Supercar times ie 12sec and both will cost roughly the same @ that kind of tune although its hard to say which will be more reliable.

Once again, I can't stress enough about getting your heads sorted for the purpose of your vehicle.


Maybe we should make a list of motors that we have or had someone build with:

Type of car and intended use:

Type of gearbox:

Engine parts used:

Performance:

Building a Fast and Reliable Engine
By Mark Herbert
 
on the other forum.

very interresting-no monster valves, no monster cam, that's the way i like to go.

my next engine:

78X94
w120 with 1.25
40/35.5 or 40/37.5  not welded just poted and polished(dual springs ;D)
45 dells
1 5/8 merged with dynomax
everything match ported

but first i like to put my stock size valved 2007cc in the low 14sec 8)

dirk zeyen

Hi Dirk
It all depends on what you want to do with it , go fast on the street or strip or both . What is fast  ???  Every engine gets slow for you after sometime  :D . So the best way is to let it grow up during the years.
I started in 1984 with 1600 cc and 15's on the strip . That was fast  .

Our Paula car makes fun too , 90,5x76,4 engine 40x35 valves M5 pauter cam ,original rockers 140 hp a real streetcar and 14,7 best ET . original long ring and pinion gearbox
The black 67 is faster but not good for street use ,94x82 engine 46x38 valves engle cam 1.4 Berg rockers 212 hp and best et 12,1 . all FTC short gears 4,125 ring and pinion

Udo

Sounds like a good engine, Dirk.

Wouldn't it be fun to have all the time and money in the world to play with this stuff, just to see what happens?
Like maybe we'd find a smaller 1800cc engine with stock vlave diameter would go thru traps faster than a bigger cc engine on stock valves would (maybe the VE is so poor in the big motor gasping for air and trying to get exhaust out).  :o

One motor I've always had a good gut feeling about, and would love to build for somebody or myself would be a 1700 (88x69) with Engle 125, oval-port 40 x 37 VW heads, 9.5:1, 48IDAs and a 1-1/2" header. Or maybe a K8 with 1.4.

I was surprised how well stock heads (aside from plunge cutting for 9.5:1) worked on an 1835 Kadron motor that we put an Engle VZ15 in. Not only did it rip off idle, but had a definite "on the cam" powerband, which really surprised me considering that cam. The dry sump pulley and Crown flywheel didn't hurt engine response either. Those Kadrons were a pair of the happiest carburetors I've ever ran, amazing how much of a beast that motor turned out to be. I know, I know.... VZ cams.... what was I thinking?
I was thinking max hp per $ in this case, not driving cross country for the rest of my life with it. The motor was going in a play buggy. I'd love to build a replica of this one too.

One thing I used to wonder about, but since have gotten away from after building one, was a motor with a lot of port volume (intake) but short duration. In my opinion, you lose all around. The big ports made for a lazy mid range and the short-ish duration short circuited the top end. Conversely, the 2165 in my car now has almost 20 deg more duration (@ .050) than that combo, a tad smaller port diam, and it is BETTER all around, velvet smooth down low and mid, and sinister top end pull above 4200.

Anyway, back on topic. Before deciding on 94 x 86....  give that stock stroke a go...

that really made me laugh!!

but i do like Dave's engine better.  ;D

Does size really matter? Nope... heads matter!
Keeping the size down gives you all kinds of bonuses... like low weight, low cost, small physical engine, more stock parts... and more money left for head porter :)

69X90.5
w125
compression 9.5/1
valve size stock ported and polished
match porting
1 1/2 merged dual quiets

light weight bug no bumpers no resto cal interrior

gearbox: 0.93 4th  4.125 r/p  tires on the track 195/50-15 tires on the street 195/65-15

fun without much money

dirk zeyen

nothing yet :) everything feels fast after a 1200 :)
but i meant that if you are not happy with something about your motor, you try something else, like bigger cam ,...
its that what makes your learn things about your motor,
i think an internet motor is some recipe that you follow that you have seen on internet, thats exactly what i did:
also because it is my first motor that i built, so i wanted something common and not exotic...
but in the end its all a guess that all parts will work together:)

cheers, Peter

This looks like a pretty good deal for someone.  About the same as what I'd do with my 1835 in the future:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=679178

This is now to show what you can do with original heads , I think they should do well for my 88x78 engine . 42x35,5 valves and for street use with the best cooling you can get with ports like this size .

Relocated 12 mm spark plugs , so you have enough material to the seats and NEVER get cracks .

I do this work for over 20 years now and all heads are still alive , on the street , strip or circuit track  :D

Welded above and below the intake ports , ported to the max size i would do with those heads , i had up to 220 hp with 041 heads . A lot of companies did this , i know that Clyde Berg still does this work . I keep the nose for valve guide in the port to be shure the guides will not get loose or move when cutting the guide boss for double springs .

I still recommend this for german street use because the exaust ports get cooled .

Spar plugs angeled to get more clearance from spark plug to manifold

very similar to the heads I ported for my street motor

Jim , but yours are 044cb heads  ;) . These i recommend for 94 bore !!

I ported both my OWN IDF manifolds that are made for bigger ports without welding . They are very large inside and need not much work .

And my IDA's without welding !! I will see on the dyno if the engine needs IDA carbs