The Cal-look Lounge

So after many questions posted here and through a bunch of PMs I have finally finished buying all the major parts for my engine. I still need a few odds and ends but this is what I ended up with:

New Mag Case
84 CB crank w/ Chevy journals
94 B pistons w/ Grant rings
5.5 CB H beams
12 lbs CB flywheel
Berg Equalizer Pulley
FK-45 cam
Denham 44 x 37 heads
Skat-Trak manifolds
48 IDAs
Vertex Mag
A-1 1 3/4 Low Down Exhaust
Berg 3.5 sump

I still need to have the 48s & Mag gone through and the case machine work done.

I wanted to thank everyone here who gave input on this combo. I got a lot of good input and advice from the folks here on the lounge. This is definitely the best VW forum out there. Now I just need to decide if I am going to assemble it myself or send it to someone else to build it for me.

Have a happy holidays!

Thanks,

--louis

Nice combo Louisb andkeep us posted on the build and happy holidays too buddy.

greets,
Stanford 8)

tip#1. It goes in the back of the car ;)

hmm
84mm cheepo non nitride crank? weak chevy jurnals? with typ1 center main? hmm I would be too scaered to use that...
but maybe I'm wrong...

good luck and all best with the project.
 cheers.

Actually the CB cranks are nitrided and a lot of people have gotten good use out of them. It may not be the best but it will work for what I need it for.

Thanks,

--louis

is it done yet  ;D

CB makes 2 kinds of those 84mm cranks nitride and non nitride... If you have nitride well done. if not... too bad.
I hope everything will be all right ;)

lol, no.

It looks like I am going to go with Art Thraen @ ACE for the assembly & tuning. Spoke with him yesterday and got a quote to build it and tune it on his dyno. He will rebuild my IDAs as well. Now I just need to get the money together so I can send it to him.

--louis

Sounds like a nice solid street monster Louis. Big lungs, shortish rods, and conservative duration/high lift. Hope you're building a strong transaxle.  8)

It will be interesting to compare it to your motor when it had the FK-45. This same basic motor made 204 hp in the engine shoot out. (Though James2 used CNC heads and 5.325 rods) But what was really impressive to me was the HP at 3000 in that test. I forgot the number but it was the highest of any of the engines even though he didn't make as much power on the top end. I think this will be a good fast street engine as opposed to a slow race engine as you tend to say. Tranny will be a berg 5. Now if you will excuse me, I need to go put a kidney on eBay.  :P


--louis

Only thing with the FK45... it had a big hole in the midrange, and then took off. Was good to 62-6500. The Pauter cam now is just silky smooth from lower mid range to 7K...no sags. The FK45 was a strange cam to me.

Bill S. recommended the FK-46 for this engine and I may try it out if I am not happy with the FK-45. What are the specs on that pauter cam?

Thanks,

--louis

272 @ .050"/304 advertised/.406" @ lobe if I can remember.

Maybe this one from Pauter:
R8   304º   274º   0.421"   10.67   108º

It looks real close to the FK-46 or 47

FK-46   301º   268º   0.408"   10.36   108º   New cam
FK-47   308º   276º   0.419"   10.64   108º   New cam

edit: I went ahead and picked up an FK-46 cam and will try it out. Good thing cams are cheap.  ;)

--louis

Yeah, but they are a pain to switch if you don't like it.

True, which is why I am trying to get as much input as I can on it.

--louis

Cam swapping isn't too bad, Hot VWs or Trends did a tech article years ago on cam install through the oil pump bore.  They used to do an April Fools issue, but I don't think that had anything to do with it.

 :-X

I remember that article. I liked the Elephant tach better though.  ;D

--louis

Oh yeah, you're gonna need one of those, too.

My grind is the R6E8

ok, just dynoed my 88x94 2442 fk46.9.6 comp. 5.6 rod,clyde 44x37.5,1 5/8, AT 4300 alt..Guessed at jetting, first pull, 162.2 hp w/ belt and muff.NO 12% ORANGE COUNTY F'N FACTOR ,(WHY DO THEY DO THAT?). Approx hp loss 3% per 1 k ft of elevation,you do the math..was a 2332 k10, made 150 range..(189 at berg ,w/o belt sea level).With berg 1,54 rockers lift increased to 6.30ish w/ fk46. did lifter bores etc. Feel there is more tuning to come.. 1/34, stepped exh, vent increase etc,. Going back saturday to play with jetting, exh.etc, ok maybe shoot a couple of ducks too. mmm, good..bill

didn't mean to jack your thread, but my fk 46 measured 271 dur..looks good, "they" say bush your lifter bores on fk. series. oh yeah ,ratto ,I stayed on 108 lobe centers..If i go bigger exh and venturi size, i am sure it will raise my rpm peak hp. Not my goal,Would like it all over at 6500 , easier on valve springs etc.NEXT tear down WILL get bee hives and bigger intakes..thanks.

Real world exp is always welcome.

--louis

I put an FK-45 in my buddie's 2110 a few years ago. 82 X 90.5.
K-roc prepped Oval port CB heads, K-roc recomended using really high compression (so I thought) . 10.5/1 (maybe it was 10.2/1. Anyways, it made 168hp to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno. Ran 12.80's in a mostly full weight 70 beetle.
There was no hole in the powerband anywhere. Stab it a 2K and she would just steady increase Tq. all the way up to 7,000rpm.
I think the compression ratio really made the cam work well for this motor.
It never ran hot at all. He took it on many long hour highway trips in the middle of summer (90+F) I would never have belived it unless I built it myself and watched it run.
As a matter of fact; it ran significantly cooler than the same motor with an Webcam 86-C.

High compression combos don't have to run hotter, but they do like the high octane....

The FK-4X series cams are faster ramp cams (espeically with the FK-45). AKA: "rampy" cam. To make it all work, you must have the valve spings "up to the task". 

I think you will be real happy with either the FK-45 or FK-46 with your combo. They are great cams, build and tune it right, and you'll impress more than a few people with it....

Not sure were you got this info ??? Our 78mm through 86mm cranks are all 4340 chromoly and nitrided. The 69mm, 74mm and 76mm cranks are 4140 chromoly and are not nitrided.

Just an FYI about Nitrided cranks.
Nidtriding is a surface hardening treatment. It makes the outer "wear" surfaces extreemly hard.

This is good for minimizing journal damage during rod bearing failures, In many cases the crank will survive w/o having to be re-ground undersize. (if you catch it fast enough).
Nitriding has little affect on the overall strength of the crankshaft.

I run the non-nitrided 4140 crank in my backup race motor.... It has about 40 passes on it so far and turns 8,250rpm on every shift.
Plenty strong.

Hi Louis your Engine Combo is close to mine here is mine
New Mag AS41 Case (lifter bores Bushed)
84 CB crank w/ Chevy journals
94  Wiseco pistons w/ Jaycee Long Barells
5.7 CB H beams
12 lbs CB flywheel
Berg Equalizer Pulley
FK-46 cam on a 110 lobe center
Pauter 1.4 Rockers
CB CNC Wedge Ports 44 x 37 heads Reworked by Steve Tims
Scat Short Welded and match ported by steve tims
48 IDAs 46MM Vents
Joe Hunt Magneto (locked out)
1 3/4 Merge Exhaust with a DynoMax Muffer
Berg 4 Qt. Drag sump
Engine Made 237 H.P. @ 6000 on an engine Dyno (not Rear Wheel H.P.) with muffler without belt on Racing Gas

That's alot of HP for that engine. Who's dyno did you use? What's the CR? Shubee

Those are some pretty nice numbers Shubee. Should be a wild ride.

--louis

Jm Clarks Engine Dynamics Dyno, Compression Ratio is 13 to 1

great h.p.,Wondering why max hp at 6k for for 110 lobe center.. Shouldn't that move peak hp higher? My fk 46 w/108 lobe center motor just air jet change went 170 at 6500.W/belt and muff at 4200 ft...Going to try bigger exh this weekend and 42 vents. Thinking that would move it up in rpm range..(not wanting that)??? 9.6 comp.??I want it all over at 6500..Going to find out?? 

A lot of interesting posts here about what to run for cranks and not run.  For those with less time on VW engines and parts,  we ran OKRASA cranks in the early 70's (plain bearing)that were non-type 4 center mains and smaller counter-weights than newer BERG Cranks and SCAT cranks. They survived great...but then again all GERMAN Metalurgy was superior to anything else at the time, including Welded VW cranks done correctly.

I personaly saw Mitch Evensen's tattle-tale tac hit 10,300 rpms on a BUGPACK crank in the 90's that held up even after he lightened the crank by taking off 2-3 pounds of weight.  The CB cranks are fine for any street engine with Bracket Racing use.  I know plenty of people running them and beating them hard.  We've personally run chevy journal cranks since PAUTER started making their REV-TRUE cranks in the early 70's on a VW welded, offset ground crank. 

There is a lot of opinion on these forums that can sometimes be somewhat unfounded.  I have also seen the most expensive cranks made have issues.  Most of the time ie was oiling issues or other related failures. I personally would not be afraid to run any of the new CHINESE forgings providing I checked all the critical clearances, machine work and final finish issues that all matter.  Proper assembly goes a long way too...to ensure the motor will last.

Compression, desired horsepower and operating RPMs, everything matters.  The comments offered by OHIO TOM are dead on too. Nitriding is a surface issue that helps with journal longevity...providing all other things are done correctly too.  Nothing is 100% bullet-proof no matter who made the parts.  So Louis...built it and RUN IT!  You will be fine if you do your due diligence on the assembly, oiling, clearances, etc.

Have a Happy New Year and burn rubber in the process!

Rick M

Hi Tom,
I still plan on dialing the lift per degree per dgree rate of the FK45 and compare it to K8, 86B, 86C, etc.. to see how rampy it was. I ran it in my 2165 for about 9K miles and upon teardown, checked radial clearance on the lifters/bores... was like new case still.
Not sure what was up with FK45 in my car. Originally it was destined to go in a 94 x 74 motor, not the 78mm. It was a strange cam. Off idle, loads of response, but stomp it in the mid range and NOTHING would happen for a moment, then ka-boom, it would run up to 6K. Carb tuning wasn't the issue, it was a powerband thing. Most of the time I ran 37mm vents with that motor, but also toyed with 40mm and 42mm.
As a side note, I advanced the lobe peak (intake) to 104ATDC (from the usual 108), anothr way of saying "I advanced the cam", but I degreed it in to do this. Most guys "in the know" I've talked to say street motors like 4 deg advance, and some studying I've done said the same. But I wonder if that had something to do with the pause in power with FK45. Never had a VW motor do that before... I've had them be soft all over down low, then come up on cam (FK87, Clay Smith 320) or just yank your head off your neck (K8, VZ15, 86C) the second you stomp it.
The Pauter cam I have now could actually probably stand another 10 deg at .020", but like I said in street gears post, it probably suits the way i drive my car pretty well. I wanted that 911 powerband, and I think I got it.

Take care and happy new year
Jim

6000 was Not Peak Horse power thats as far as I wanted them to Take it, I was Very Happy with the 237 H.P. @ 6000  I would Rather break it in the Car Then on the Dyno LOL ;D ;D

sorry for the threadjack but what Jim just described re. the lifter bores like new caught my attention....

Hi Jim, this case was a mag one without sleeves on the bores which ran 9k miles on an fk-45 right? Reason i ask is 'cause i always hear it said that for this cam type sleeving is mandatory else you oval those bores. i recently built an engine with a new mag case and had the fk45 but decided against it and installed an fk10 instead. Nothing bad about it, did a 13.2 on radials with the set-up, but wud also like to see for myself what the fk45 has to offer.

Happy new year to all....

yep, it was FK45 with Bugpack "lightweight" Tayco lifters, new stock VW case, unsleeved. Dual VW-diameter (bugpack 4046) springs set up .100" before bind and Valvoline Premium Blue (old SL type) with Red STP added.