The Cal-look Lounge

Ok guys, I'm at the point of buying a fanshroud for my new 1915 engine. What fanshrouds are good to use? I know a 181 shroud is good but I like the look of a 30/36hp shroud. I know SCAT and CB sell a black 36hp fanshroud with doghouse. Are they any good?

I don't believe a 36hp shroud came with a doghouse from VW??

Also I want to know if I should use a stock or a welded fan?

I heard that the 36hp one restricts cooling compared to the more effecient latter model ones?

And id deffinatley go welded fan after seeing this  :o :o

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1HA1H4cmIbI/SRmX9h-Q0iI/AAAAAAAABD8/5ARNm1QWCO0/s1600-h/a4.jpg)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1HA1H4cmIbI/SRmX9h-Q0iI/AAAAAAAABD8/5ARNm1QWCO0/s1600-h/a4.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1HA1H4cmIbI/SRmX9h-Q0iI/AAAAAAAABD8/5ARNm1QWCO0/s1600-h/a4.jpg)

definitely a welded fan, had one let go many years ago, even snapped the dynamo stand

I like the stock VW fan shroud for cooling but not for access! Most work on the motor on my car reqires removing the decklid and the 48mm Webers. An option is the Industrial Brazil fan shroud.... much more compact. I ran one on my father's 2054 in his Transporter and on Sheep's 1914 IDA motor.

As far as fans go.... Bugpack's welded fan is probably the best out there. they use a OEM VW fan, weld the blades, balance them and coat them for corrosion. I have one in my '67.

Thanks for the quick replies.

So I go for a welded fan. I think this one http://www.vwspeedshop.com/shop/product.php?productid=16428&cat=380&page=1

They also sell fanshrouds, if I look at the engine detailing topic I see a lot 36hp so it should work?

i guess the choice of fan shroud is a trade-off between looks and cooling performance. but so many people run aftermarket 36hp shrouds, so i guess they ain't too bad after all.

jesse, if you're gonna get that fan, can you get me one as well? ;)

Be careful of which welded fan shroud you buy. There has been some problems with some of them coming apart. I like the Berg unit and the price is reasonable.

--louis

accessibility is a key point too

fair point ;)

Agreed.

Ok, so a Bugpack or Berg fan, and the fanshroud, as long it is a SCAT, CB or Bugpack it should be ok? Weld the internal vains or use the thermostat?

Sorry for OT Jesse,any info on Bugpack welded fans guys.

I decided to go with the stock doghouse,stock oil cooler,and deciding to run a thermostat or not run the termostat.

Jesse will you run flaps on your shroud?

I have had zero issues with the Berg welded fan on my 1914 which sees blasts up to 6k regularly. I also have a scat 36hp doghouse and I am pleased with the fit and finish. I followed Mark Herbert's advice and put a bead of silicone sealant on all the internal vanes I could get to. A preventative measure to make sure the vanes don't vibrate loose. Also, if you plan on using braided fuel line with AN fittings you will have to use 90 degree fittings off of your carbs so that they will clear the shroud.

I´m going to use SCAT 36 HP style shroud with doghouse, I´ll install flaps and thermostat from a stock engine and I´ll laso have lower engine tins and industrial tins that cover the gap between lower engine tins and header tubes on my 2276.

The "181" guy is using a Scat shroud?! :D ;)

i have no direct experience, but i'm pretty sure i've read on the American forum in the past that lots of guys that had used scat welded fans had experienced problems......best to stick with a welded up OEM one.

OK!....
Get a VW fan and have it welded (by the right folks)!!!
36 shroud OK!.....after powdercoat or paint ...silicone the veins..
Then go out and .... ,,,,,,

Ditto what Jim said.

For best cooling, I prefer a fan shroud from a 75-79 fuel injection beetle that has the additional air horn on the air inlet. I run them with the flaps intact and wired open...

~DR.

Now, I'm not a scientist so I haven't proven this in that way, but have you ever compared the shrouds from a FI Beetle and an earlier doghouse? Specifically the part where the air is routed for the oil coooler. There are 3 types that I've seen, the FI Beetle uses a simple ovaled hole, whereas the one that I prefer has a large "scoop", seemingly grabbing a lot more air for the oil cooler. My theory is the factory sacrificed a little oil cooling on the FI beetles in order to try and keep those hot running heads in check (which is also why the air horn was there). The best thing to do is drill off the air horn and install it in an earlier "scooped" doghouse shroud, IMO.

There was a guy repoing that piece to be used on earlier fan shrouds but I can't seem to find the ad on the samba anymore.

--louis

Your probably right...

Installing the air horn on the earlier shroud sounds like a great idea.
I still prefer to run the flaps fixed in the open position rather than remove them... your thoughts?

~DR.

I prefer to run the flaps like the factory intended, fully functioning. Warm up is faster, and the heater works more effectively (if still equipped).

How about get rid of cooler and run external fan and cooler so motor get more air to the cooling fins?

Hi Danny that's something I've been thinking about for a long time now. Why not block airflow to doghouse duct, use the wide B fan, and run an enternal cooler either in full flow loop or off top of case, with one of those RAPID COOL adapter blocks. The air that was dedicated to flow to doghouse, woudl have to exit elsewhere... and that would be the exit to heads. Where else can it go?

I think, had the Bug been a performance-minded car from the factory, they would have engineered it to remove the cooler from the engine compartment. But since the VW was a budget minded thing, they weren't going to engineer oil lines, etc.... like a 911 Porsche.

Sure would be easy to do the mod, especially for a handy guy like you dude.

Thats exactly what im going to do on my next engine.  I think it should work well with a nice big setrab oil cooler.

You can stuff a doghouse fan in a 36hp shroud, so why not do that? I wonder if there are any problems with removing the internal cooler... good question for Jake Raby.

     I like the later style 40 HP which has the same look as the 36 HP except that the 36 HP shroud will need to be modified in the lower center because it will not clear and stay evenly where the center of the case. The later 40 HP shroud has a small square indentation at the top center for the original air cleaner to clear. There for the later 40 HP is a better fit. If you buy the Scat style with the dog house and you are going and use the Berg cross bar linkage one of the upper hole ( left ) for the rear generator shroud the hole is offset and the Berg cross bar linkage will be at a different angle. If you use a center pull linkage than it will not matter . When these reproduction dog house shroud were made this perticular hole was offset from day one. I have a few of the early Puma style shrouds.

  Thanks !!!!

   Frenchy

What Frenchy said.  I still like the round 40 the best, too.  If I had my druthers, I'd add a remote cooler for the hot summer months we get here.  The fact that your able to change plugs without being a contortionist is a big plus.  OEM = quality 8) / Aftermarket = hours spent modifying, cussing, bleeding and misery >:(.

But OEM didn't come with a doghouse or did they?? Sarge, yours is an OEM 36hp? What are the 40hp look like?

dude... could your motor get any cleaner? Geeezz....   ;D

jesse ,
thats a 40hp stale air shroud ;)

Thanx, bro.... first Margarita's on me tomorrow ;) 8)


What Ian said, Jesse.... no doghouse on the back.  I've been using a 356 Porsche cooler inside that 40hp shroud.  Like I mentioned, an external cooler would make things sweet in the summer with this set-up.

Sarge never drives his car, he just wipes it down all the time. Seriously though, that stale air 40hp shourd is kinda uncommon because I think they only came on early, bastard engines??

yeah becuase there was a stale air shroud that was the same shape as 13-15-1600 shrouds... I wonder what the production run was on those. Did the KG and the Bus run a different one w/o the indent (since air cleaner was hung to the right)?

I'm "thinking" that shroud was only a 66 or 67 bus.  My '63 sedan came with a stale air 40hp shroud that was flat on top.

I did a quick samba gallery search and it looks like beetles, buses and ghias all had the dent at the top of the shroud. There weren't many hits on the search, so I could be wrong. VW change over stuff is kinda screwy. Nothing was set in stone and improvements were made when necessary.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h311/cmhauer/miscellaneous/PICT0068.jpg)

40 h.p. stale air on the left, Scat 36 on the right.

Yet another angle to throw everybody off...Maize uses the 40 h.p. on his 2276 with small fan, external cooler only, and F.I. venturi ring added.  Runs perfectly cool in humid Pennsylvania summers.  No major highway time, but it drives 20 miles or so to the track, raced, and driven home.

You mileage may vary.

   Thanks Sarge

   Just for everyone information I remember back in the 70's FAT performance talking with Ron Fleming he liked the later 40 HP shrouds because as Sarge mentioned it had a clean look and was easier to get to adjust the 48 IDA and to get to the plugs. With patience you can modify a 40 HP and add the dog house cooler.

  Thanks
  Frenchy

I've read from more than a few individuals that CB's 36hp Doghouse Scat shroud has the best cooling and is the most correct as far as vane placement goes.  I run it, and have had no issues w/ heat. 

My '61 Bug came with one stock.

Thats what I have in the cabrio,I use a Scat 36hp style shroud without doghouse,but berg welded doghouse fan,then oil coller block off and remote 14row oil cooler with electric fan,seems ok to me

cheers richie,uk

I wonder why VW changed the shape of the fan housing, from the semi-circular 36/early 40hp style to the later, flat topped style.

1. cooling efficiency? Did the 36hp profile limit air flow and room for directional airfoils inside?
2. manufacturing ease or costs?
3. ?

or ?

Interesting to think about.

FWIW, Porsche left the 356/912 fan housing profile alone. I know they changed the duct into the fan, and on Super 90's/912, how the hot air escaped from motor.

 ???

The 36/40 hp style shroud makes more sense as far as the arc of the air flow, and the way the vanes are positioned.  No idea why it was changed.  Good question Jim!

maybe it was part of the planned fresh air heating system to be debuted with 40hp (later model)? Maybe the profile of the shroud was better suited to directing a portion of the blown air into heater ducts. But why the stale air flat top shroud?
It had to have cost VW lots of $ to change tooling.

What about a industrial shroud with a external cooler? That would give you more air than the 36hp style? No heater out lets, just less room around the carbs.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/SWu44amUqYI/AAAAAAAAFHc/iiysaIVEBR8/s800/Back.jpg)


(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_WfCoy6mmPwA/SWu4Z4nR56I/AAAAAAAAFHA/l5jElloBU5g/s800/BKKK.jpg)

Pic no worky

well in Europe first series of 181 (until 1972) were equipped with 1500 singleport with non doghouse non heater outlets shroud (gas heater in car) and gearbox from a split bus :-P

Although I can get hold of a famous 181 quite easily, I´ll use Scat shroud due to smaller dimensions.

As I recall, the 36hp housings really don't sit on a late case right, due to a bolt boss that is right in the way. You have to cut out a small section on the bottom front for it to sit square on the case. The early 40hp works and sits much better, since it was designed for the later case shape. Beware of some of the aftermarket 36hp dog house fan housings..... There is a huge air gap between the cooler and the lower housing sheet metal. Before you use one of these housings, turn it upside down, fit your dog house cooler inside the compartment, and look at the seal around it. You might be in for a shock! There needs to be a tight air seal around the base of the cooler. It's hard to beat a late model OEM housing (Thing too).

you're right, they don't fit the 40hp & later case, without trimming. Sheep tried using a VW 36hp shroud on one of his motors, and lost his temper trying to get the thign to lay down on the motor nicely. I came over later and asked what the dimples were in the top on the shroud. he said "from my fist"
 :o

I installed many 36hp shrouds from various suppliers. I have never really compared two shrouds side by side or even opened them to compare the veins. (If I remember correctly there was once a article about shrouds in a HotWV’s issue). Hasn't it occurred to anyone that these shrouds might all come from one and the same Chinese manufacturer. I don't think there is much difference between EMPI, Bugpack, Scat or CB Performance... Please tell me if I am wrong. (If I remember right I once realized a difference in the area of the fresh air outlet scoops between a doghouse and a non doghouse 36HP shroud)
All I know is that I have to spend countless hours to get any of them fit right. I took me 3 h and bleeding fingers to install factory flaps to a 36hp shroud. (*Yes I like to run the original thermostatically controlled flaps) If accessibility or looks is not the main reason I would stick to an OEM shroud.

Welded fans or not? I used original German fans in all my engines and the see occasional RPMs of 6.5K without any issues. Granted if an engine revs higher I can see that a welded (OEM) fan might be a good investment. To me, the key to a good reliable engine is use as many "Made in Germany" parts as possible. Rather a dirty, filthy old German Fan than a shiny new welded Chinese fan. (Same applies to cheep cranks etc...)

*Why flaps? They do not restrict airflow as much, they direct the cooling air to the proper location at any time and they cool some parts of the engine earlier than others. Keep in mind that the engine parts such as cylinders and heads and bolts all have different expansion rates. By installing the flaps, engines have a tendency to stay dry (no leaks) longer.

Doghouse cooler or not? I like the doghouse offset cooler as it doesn’t restrict airflow to the left head as much. I like to use the original oil cooler and run an thermostatically controlled additional cooler within the full flow system. If necessary you can add an additional fan to that one. This set up keeps the flow restrictions of the cold oil to a minimum. (small oil circuit) as the oil gets thinner the restrictions by oil tubing is not such a big issue anymore and the additional circuit to the 2nd cooler helps to keep the oil temperature down.

Maybe I am wrong and I an open to suggestions.

Cheers Dom

Just a idea, but with the bump in the bottom of the later fan shroud. May be some of the air is redirected back to the case area instead of all to the head area. Just a guess

This is a really intresting topic as I have been doing some research on the most effective fanhousing for the motor I'm building up.

However, as do many here, I also have concerns about clearance issues using a later genuine fan as I'm gonna be running duel carbs, and I'm also as not going to be running heat exchangers, thus I don't need the air outlets.

As for repro fanhousings the concensus seems to be that whilst SCAT fanshrouds are ok, there not as good as a genuine fanshroud.

However, I found this modification to a genuine later fanshroud, which seems to slove all these problems.

http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_page0002.htm

Although its lot of work, it does seem like at the end of it you do get a really good fanshroud with correct internal vains, and cooling properties of the OEM item.

Was just intrested to see what everybody thought about it?

Dude  8)

Jesse,

I think there is a difference in use.  Do you drive your car 500 km to a meeting?  I do, so I choose to use a big fan and an external cooler.  In trafic use the external cooler don't work (unless you have an electric cooling fan), that's why I certainly wanted the big fan in my fanshroud.  I also liked the 36 horse style so I bought a CB first and then a SCAT.  Unless an other brand, I think they are made in the same factory, as the generator holes where in the 2 exemples bored wrong, something you don't find in original shrouds and can be very nasty with a Berg linkage which has to be straight.  I wanted the 36 hp shroud becouse of the extra space for my IDA's.  With my other motor I had a 181 shroud and had problems installing and removing the carbs with the engine in the car.

Hope you can make your decision now, with an extra advice.  Hereby a picture of my engine.

Philip
Flatline Lowriders
Belgium

All I know is what has worked for me. My 1904 lasted 97,000 miles and my current 2180 has 12,000 miles. Both has all factory tin with a Type 181 shroud, stock Type 1 oil cooler, 1.5qt sump, remote filter and never needed a secondary cooler. Oil is 10W-30, timing is 30 BTDC, 9.5:1 cr, 93 octane oil temps have never exceeded 205F even climbing hills on 95F days cruising at 75mph.

OEM tin fits like a glove.

those are all coming out of the same place in Taiwan, all of them. they do fit better than they used to, but if you want to run the berg linkage, the backing plate bolts are "clocked" different than stock so your linkage wont be straight. Like Sarge said"OEM equals quality"

i dont like the idea of siliconing the vanes. why not just tack weld them from behind and powdercoat?

the 181 shroud is way overrated in my opinion. first jake tested and found they cool just the same as the normal doghouse.

second, a lot are telling the vanes are slightly different than normal doghouse to compensate for the lack of heaters horns, makes sense but not a single pic i have seen to confirm this. so untill a pic is shown, it is just science fiction to me.

i believe late Mark Herbert also tried this and reported good results....

I always thought the big attraction of the Thing/Trekker/181 shroud was simply that it is a factory piece with no heater outlets, which suits us hi-po, no heat tuff guys.

I am happy with my "Scat" doghouse 36.  Yes, it needs a little work, but that really doesn't bother me.

When I switched from a stock fresh air dog house shroud to a 181 I did not notice any improved cooler. My main reason is for the looks. But i'd take a stock late model over a aftermarket 36hp any day.

I hate that the alternator backing plate screws are not correctly aligned on the aftermarket shrouds. That makes mounting the Berg fan mount linkage difficult.

Thanks all for your responses. :)

It seems to be the general concensus, that whilst SCAT fanshrouds work well, with many here running them, they mounting holes for the fan plate are off which can cause problems with mounting a berg linkage. OEM stuff seems to be the best in terms of cooling, but as said there are clearance issues especially when running big duel carbs.

Cooling is gonna be crucial on the motor i'm running as it 10.5 to 1 compression ratio, and i do want to do reasonable milage with it. I am running a external filter, and will probably fit a external cooler as well as the standard one. I also really like the idea of a standard thermostat and flaos on warm up.

I'm really tempted to modfy a later style OEM fanhousing to a 36 hp style, as done in the link i posted. (http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_page0002.htm)

It seems the perfect way of keeping the fit of a OEM fan, including all the internal vains, and fan mounting holes, but with no air horns, and in a 36hp style

Just wonderd whats everbody think of this modification?

Dude  8)

Photos stolen from above website!
(http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_image015.jpg) (http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_image021.jpg) (http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_image029.jpg) (http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_image027.jpg) (http://www.newlancsvwclub.co.uk/Project_pages/Projectpages_image016.jpg)

I bought a Scat doghouse shroud with no heater outlets for my 2017 build, partially because of more room for the dual 45 DRLAs and partially aesthetics (looks).  I'll admit I'm as big a proponent of maintaining all original German sheetmetal whenever possible, but I'll also be honest enough to admit that for all intents and purposes this particular project engine will be, at best a seasonal and very occasional driver and bracket racer.  I'm figuring I'll be bored of the engine before I ever wear it out, and will probably build something bigger or faster! ;D

that mod is pretty cool. funnily i incorporated that myself when fabbing my own doghouse from a 1600 and a 36hp with air filter recess a few months ago. just needs bondo and paint to get it sorted now  ;D

This looks realy good and based original.  Thats the best of both worlds

Philip
Flatline-Lowriders
Belgium

scat 36 HP doghouse fan shrouds have all 9 internal air veins like a factory doghouse does
their 36 HP std shrouds have 6 internal air veins plus both accept the doghouse fan's
Clark @ Awesome Powdercoat in Ohio had the air venturi's re made and has them for sale

I have all three fan housings ( Thing,40hp& Scat 36)...the thing is a perfect fit..What can I say !!!...the 40hp also fits perfect but theres the cooler issue... Now the Scat also fits perfect but like what Frenchy & Deano said the Scat does fit good but there are to small problems ...

1st...there is the problem with the alternator holes as far as running the Berg linkage it is missing the holes for the coil. So you have to impervise something for them ..!...

2nd.. Like Deano says about the fit of the oil cooler at the bottom of it there is a gap which I know there was a article in HotVw's about a fix for this !....Which may not matter ...? I don't know ..?

I have no issues using the Scat as it is well done just have those small mods that need to be done !

I am running a modified SCAT on my motor.  I have run them before and make all the corrections required.  They cool fine.  I modified my BERG Cross Bar angle piece and had it re-powdercoated. It was no big deal. In the final analysis, with all the mods made, it cools fine.

Rick M