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Title: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 04, 2009, 00:02:58 am Hey Guys as the title says I am planning on fitting wide5 type3 rear drums to PROJECT 66 BUT I am also planning on fitting a set of Fuchs SO what is the best way to convert these (NOS) drums? Re-drill/Re-tap? Add studs? etc etc?
Which method would you choose? Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 04, 2009, 00:08:03 am redrill 4 stud drums and use SAW studs
Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 04, 2009, 04:33:32 am Sounds like a killer idea, Lee. I want to use early Type 3 drums with the wide five pattern on the rear and wide five discs up front.
Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 04, 2009, 12:07:53 pm Sounds like a killer idea, Lee. I want to use early Type 3 drums with the wide five pattern on the rear and wide five discs up front. Yeah I thought it would be pretty cool - I am planning on using a set of 944 disc's and caliper up front OR a set of Stock 4lug disc's redrilled for porsche PCD - Not sure yet :) P.s Anyone got a link for "SAW Studs"??? Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 04, 2009, 12:22:12 pm here you go buddy .
http://www.swayaway.com/WheelStudsAndNuts.php Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 04, 2009, 13:20:46 pm here you go buddy . http://www.swayaway.com/WheelStudsAndNuts.php Cheers dude :) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: LuftsickTero on March 04, 2009, 16:30:33 pm redrill 4 stud drums and use SAW studs CSP sells brand new drums (blank 4-lug drums) with Porsche bolt-pattern (had these in my Oval): (http://www.csp-shop.de/shop/images/artikel/13317.jpg) http://www.csp-shop.de/shop2/frame_nachladen.php?func=det&wkid=81421516941&rub1=Wheels+/+Brakes&rub2=Brake+Drums,Brake+Drums+rear&artnr=13317a&pn=0 (http://www.csp-shop.de/shop2/frame_nachladen.php?func=det&wkid=81421516941&rub1=Wheels+/+Brakes&rub2=Brake+Drums,Brake+Drums+rear&artnr=13317a&pn=0) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 04, 2009, 20:46:25 pm redrill 4 stud drums and use SAW studs CSP sells brand new drums (blank 4-lug drums) with Porsche bolt-pattern (had these in my Oval): (http://www.csp-shop.de/shop/images/artikel/13317.jpg) http://www.csp-shop.de/shop2/frame_nachladen.php?func=det&wkid=81421516941&rub1=Wheels+/+Brakes&rub2=Brake+Drums,Brake+Drums+rear&artnr=13317a&pn=0 (http://www.csp-shop.de/shop2/frame_nachladen.php?func=det&wkid=81421516941&rub1=Wheels+/+Brakes&rub2=Brake+Drums,Brake+Drums+rear&artnr=13317a&pn=0) type 3 ?? Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Trond Dahl on March 04, 2009, 20:50:01 pm I believe they are the same width as 68->
I'm planning on using theese on my Oval as well. To fit them on a short axle they need to be machine down. In my case 3mm inside and 11mm outside. Yet to see if it works out :-D Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 05, 2009, 01:18:24 am Yeah I thought it would be pretty cool - I am planning on using a set of 944 disc's and caliper up front OR a set of Stock 4lug disc's redrilled for porsche PCD - Not sure yet :) 944 stuff? COOL!!! I had a 1986 944 with 952 suspension and even in that big car... the brakes were beyond awesome! I drove that car very hard for five years and never had to replace the brakes. I took it to the Porsche dealer where I used to work in the '80s and asked 'em how/why are my brakes lasting as long as they did. They told me that was the one great feature on that car... never have to replace 'em for long periods of time. Too bad my Volvo estate and BMW E21 weren't as nice on brake components. The wagon gets replaced every year to year and a half. The Bimmer hangs in there for about two years in between changes. So on an air-cooled Volkswagen, you'll do very well with those, Lee. If I had the money, I'd go for those brakes. Very nicely engineered and they work great. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 05, 2009, 17:41:07 pm At least you read me post properly Fred ;) I thought the 944's would be the best option Plus its keeping it in the Family so to speak - As for the rear brakes I have already agreed to buy a set of NOS Wide5 Type3 drums, Now not only are these ALOT wider than other drums BUT they are also wide5 which means that if in the future I want to run different wheels in will be ALOT easier plus it also means I can "Borrow" my friends wide5 erco's with Firestone slicks ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 06, 2009, 05:50:43 am i sure you can't re-stud wide5 type 3 , i think people get type3 4stud to drill for 5x130.
they push your wheels out about 1/2" each side too , not sure how adapters will look :). if you're running short axels you have to machine 5/8" off the snouts . theres DEFINATELY more info than i can give , but i have data-overload through looking at brakes the last 3 weeks ::) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 06, 2009, 06:56:33 am Lee, that's pretty fortunate that you're able to get the earlier (wide 5) Type 3 drums. I'll have to start looking for those, myself. I want to beef up my brakes before I drop a faster engine in my car.
Ian, my car's a late '67... so I'm pretty certain that I have the wide rear axles. I just found out that the Type 3 drums widen the rear width ½" on each side. That might be a problem, 'cause I like the way my wheels sit in relation to the fenders (front and rear), now. Hopefully, that little bit won't affect things. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 06, 2009, 13:38:55 pm "i sure you can't re-stud wide5 type 3 , i think people get type3 4stud to drill for 5x130."
Hmmm I've been told you can :-\ guess well have to see, As I say they are NOS so I would hope they would be a little thicker(more material) than crappy repro items :) I am also pretty dam sure I am IRS'ing the 66 so there is a whole new bag of problems ::) Any thoughts ??? P.S Fred if it turn's out I can't use them you can have them at "Cost" dude :) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 06, 2009, 15:04:48 pm P.S Fred if it turn's out I can't use them you can have them at "Cost" dude :) You ROCK! My thanks to you. A '66 with I.R.S. will be a nice touch, too. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Neil Davies on March 06, 2009, 16:44:01 pm Sounds like a killer idea, Lee. I want to use early Type 3 drums with the wide five pattern on the rear and wide five discs up front. Yeah I thought it would be pretty cool - I am planning on using a set of 944 disc's and caliper up front OR a set of Stock 4lug disc's redrilled for porsche PCD - Not sure yet :) P.s Anyone got a link for "SAW Studs"??? It would be cool to run 944 rear arms and discs, especially if you go for the Porsche gearbox too. Then a set of Fuchs, some 944 tombstone seats like Glen's '49, Porsche 914 clocks and a colour from the Porsche charts and you'll have your own little Stuttgart crossover (but still entirely Cal Look!) ;) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 06, 2009, 20:57:51 pm well it looks like I'm going down a different route then as I am not buying these type 3 drums after all - I did think about the 944 rear discs BUT what about a handbrake Mr Fastbrits book says there is no facility for one and you need to adapt a second caliper :-\ :)
Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: j-f on March 06, 2009, 21:31:31 pm well it looks like I'm going down a different route then as I am not buying these type 3 drums after all - I did think about the 944 rear discs BUT what about a handbrake Mr Fastbrits book says there is no facility for one and you need to adapt a second caliper :-\ :) Do you plan to shorten the 944 arms? I'm now really hesitating to use IRS on my 58 ??? Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 06, 2009, 21:34:48 pm well it looks like I'm going down a different route then as I am not buying these type 3 drums after all - I did think about the 944 rear discs BUT what about a handbrake Mr Fastbrits book says there is no facility for one and you need to adapt a second caliper :-\ :) Do you plan to shorten the 944 arms? I'm now really hesitating to use IRS on my 58 ??? Only if REALLY needed :) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 07, 2009, 04:59:47 am lee
i have no idea how you go about fitting 944 reasrs , but have a look at willwood ..... they make a mech. spot caliper , a bit like a 1 piston go-cart cable disc brake . or look at a ferrari 355/360 , i think thats the model that used the same principal (saw at douglas valley breakers years ago) will do to get you a hand-brake for mot . if youre not bothered about such trivial things , fit a lock valve on your rear circuit ;D Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: ian c on March 07, 2009, 05:21:52 am http://www.wilwood.com/Products/001-Calipers/023-SFM/index.asp
or http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=GDR44516 :D Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 07, 2009, 05:22:14 am It would be cool to run 944 rear arms and discs, especially if you go for the Porsche gearbox too. Then a set of Fuchs, some 944 tombstone seats like Glen's '49, Porsche 914 clocks and a colour from the Porsche charts and you'll have your own little Stuttgart crossover (but still entirely Cal Look!) ;) +1 WIN! Wow, that would make for one insanely cool car, Neil. Thanks for that visual. I've always wanted to fit a Porsche gearbox onto a Type 1. Would be much fun to drive. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 07, 2009, 11:00:50 am lee i have no idea how you go about fitting 944 reasrs , but have a look at willwood ..... they make a mech. spot caliper , a bit like a 1 piston go-cart cable disc brake . or look at a ferrari 355/360 , i think thats the model that used the same principal (saw at douglas valley breakers years ago) will do to get you a hand-brake for mot . if youre not bothered about such trivial things , fit a lock valve on your rear circuit ;D Thanks dude but thats all abit toooooo modern for me :D As for the hand brake I was just wondering what a 944 uses ??? And yes I do need one for an MOT and ideally it needs to be CABLE operated - The idea being in the event of fluid loss you can still "yank" on the rear brakes (no pun intended ;)) Alot of cars with rear discs have a small drum type set up INSIDE the disc its self :-\ Anyone got access to a 944 ??? :) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 07, 2009, 18:27:48 pm Alot of cars with rear discs have a small drum type set up INSIDE the disc its self Yep! That's how my Volvo estate is equipped. Great engineering, right there. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: PIMPPRIDE on March 08, 2009, 07:16:21 am the wide 5 lug drum has less meat / strength for the 5x130 pattern, this is why the 4 lug hub & drum is preferred to modify, for the best option is you modify 944 rear hubs to fit the 4 lug rear drum ( more machine work is involved ) but this is the strongest way...
Anthony / ISP WEST (http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2201947.jpg) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Neil Davies on March 08, 2009, 10:07:20 am You know the hubs that Michael (Tikimadness) has made? Could you get a set of those made in 5x130 but to take a 4x130 Type 3 drum? I still prefer the idea of the 944 discs though! I thought there would be some provision for a handbrake if you use the complete 944 back suspensin and brakes...
It would be cool to run 944 rear arms and discs, especially if you go for the Porsche gearbox too. Then a set of Fuchs, some 944 tombstone seats like Glen's '49, Porsche 914 clocks and a colour from the Porsche charts and you'll have your own little Stuttgart crossover (but still entirely Cal Look!) ;) +1 WIN! Wow, that would make for one insanely cool car, Neil. Thanks for that visual. I've always wanted to fit a Porsche gearbox onto a Type 1. Would be much fun to drive. I feel another project coming on... I keep doing that - planning out stuff, starting to collect parts for wild ideas and never getting them even started! :D Anyone got a cheap 944 for sale? Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Neil Davies on March 09, 2009, 10:57:59 am Lee, I've found a couple of cheap running 944's on ebay and it's taken incredible will power not to bid... I could run it round for a few months before stripping it of the useful bits... ::) Seem to be a couple of reasonable candidates at the £500 mark...
Sometimes I really hate VW people - putting ideas in innocent folks heads about having cool cars... Bastids, the lot of ya! ;D Oh, and the bug would have to be a '66, in guards red, with blacked out trim... Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Lee.C on March 09, 2009, 12:18:11 pm Lee, I've found a couple of cheap running 944's on ebay and it's taken incredible will power not to bid... I could run it round for a few months before stripping it of the useful bits... ::) Seem to be a couple of reasonable candidates at the £500 mark... Sometimes I really hate VW people - putting ideas in innocent folks heads about having cool cars... Bastids, the lot of ya! ;D Oh, and the bug would have to be a '66, in guards red, with blacked out trim... Don't worry dude I checked ebay and was thinking the EXACT same thing :D :D :D Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 11, 2009, 05:18:11 am Okay... it's brake question(s) time. If my theory is correct (PLEASE don't be shy correcting me), my late model '67 Beetle, w/wide rear axles) should accept Type 3 drums without lathing on the centers, yes?
What about using Thing front and rear drums/wheel cylinders/backing plates/shoes on a late '67? Reason: wide five lug pattern. Also, are there any of the wide five Type 2 drums that will work on my car? If I remember correctly, Bus brakes were wide five till '71 or somewhere back then. As you can see, I'm trying to upgrade my brakes on a very cheap budget. I'd like to do it before I get my engine/transmission built. Any positive suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: BeetleBug on March 11, 2009, 10:37:56 am Alot of cars with rear discs have a small drum type set up INSIDE the disc its self Yep! That's how my Volvo estate is equipped. Great engineering, right there. Off topic but I have to reply.. Great engineering? Consider this, there is a small alublock holding the shoes inside that little Volvo drum. This has tendency to break and what will happen then? The shoes will break loose and turn around and destroy everything inside there. Cost for repair you might ask - around $ 5000. Why? Because you have to change the whole spindle, break shoes both sides, cable, wheel bearing (very expensive) and do a 4 wheel allignement. Only a Swede can come up with such a stupid patent! Best rgs BB Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Neil Davies on March 11, 2009, 13:35:58 pm Alot of cars with rear discs have a small drum type set up INSIDE the disc its self Yep! That's how my Volvo estate is equipped. Great engineering, right there. Off topic but I have to reply.. Great engineering? Consider this, there is a small alublock holding the shoes inside that little Volvo drum. This has tendency to break and what will happen then? The shoes will break loose and turn around and destroy everything inside there. Cost for repair you might ask - around $ 5000. Why? Because you have to change the whole spindle, break shoes both sides, cable, wheel bearing (very expensive) and do a 4 wheel allignement. Only a Swede can come up with such a stupid patent! Best rgs BB That sounds like the bitter voice of experience! ;) Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 11, 2009, 14:26:47 pm Off topic but I have to reply.. Great engineering? Consider this, there is a small alublock holding the shoes inside that little Volvo drum. This has tendency to break and what will happen then? The shoes will break loose and turn around and destroy everything inside there. Cost for repair you might ask - around $ 5000. Why? Because you have to change the whole spindle, break shoes both sides, cable, wheel bearing (very expensive) and do a 4 wheel allignement. Only a Swede can come up with such a stupid patent! Wow... I've been driving 200 series Volvos for twenty years and not just in normal mode. They get driven hard. Even after all of my abuse, the cars are built like tanks. But more importantly, I punish the emergency brakes a lot. Ask anyone that's driven with me. When it rains, the road is my playground and I tend to spin 360ºs. The only e-brake that's ever given me problems were my two previous '66 sedans. Sorry to hear that you experienced those problems, B.B. Sounds rather nasty and very expensive. If that ever happened to me, I'd feel the same way. I just thought the overall design was a good idea when I bought my first Volvo in 1989. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: BeetleBug on March 11, 2009, 14:37:02 pm Off topic but I have to reply.. Great engineering? Consider this, there is a small alublock holding the shoes inside that little Volvo drum. This has tendency to break and what will happen then? The shoes will break loose and turn around and destroy everything inside there. Cost for repair you might ask - around $ 5000. Why? Because you have to change the whole spindle, break shoes both sides, cable, wheel bearing (very expensive) and do a 4 wheel allignement. Only a Swede can come up with such a stupid patent! Wow... I've been driving 200 series Volvos for twenty years and not just in normal mode. They get driven hard. Even after all of my abuse, the cars are built like tanks. But more importantly, I punish the emergency brakes a lot. Ask anyone that's driven with me. When it rains, the road is my playground and I tend to spin 360ºs. The only e-brake that's ever given me problems were my two previous '66 sedans. Sorry to hear that you experienced those problems, B.B. Sounds rather nasty and very expensive. If that ever happened to me, I'd feel the same way. I just thought the overall design was a good idea when I bought my first Volvo in 1989. One last Volvo related answer before we go back to topic. Car is a Volvo V70 D5 - 2005. 52 000 miles on the meter. If it was not for the fact that I managed to get the parts needed via a friend working for Volvo (thanks Rune) they would have charged me 32 000,- NOK = $ 4 800. The rate include the parts, work hours, tax and VERY bad service from the local Volvo garage. I learned my lesson and will not use the e-brake again. Title: Re: Type 3 rear drums/porsche PCD Post by: Rennsurfer on March 12, 2009, 01:34:33 am I completely understand, B.B. Sorry to hear of your negative experience regarding that.
Sorry for the repost, but I'm curious about these items: Okay... it's brake question(s) time. If my theory is correct (PLEASE don't be shy correcting me), my late model '67 Beetle, w/wide rear axles) should accept Type 3 drums without lathing on the centers, yes? What about using Thing front and rear drums/wheel cylinders/backing plates/shoes on a late '67? Reason: wide five lug pattern. Also, are there any of the wide five Type 2 drums that will work on my car? If I remember correctly, Bus brakes were wide five till '71 or somewhere back then. As you can see, I'm trying to upgrade my brakes on a very cheap budget. I'd like to do it before I get my engine/transmission built. Any positive suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. |