The Cal-look Lounge

anyone know who's old DKP car this is? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=768221

That's Phil French's old car.  Looks like the guy he passed it to is moving it along now.

No.  As for stickers, they mean nothing if the club hasn't accepted you and your car.  Money buys stickers, never membership.  You would be viewed by members as a poseur, too.  I feel this applies to any club, not just DKP.

I have a 70's DKP club rules in my collection. I read it again a few days ago and it says that if you sell you car, you have to remove the stickers, but the one on the rear window can stay.
100% agree with Sarge: if not voted you'll be considered as a poseur...

x2

You must have a different edition then mine, Guillaume.... I don't see that anywhere here.  It does say NO GIRLS!!!, though :o ;D  While we're at it, here's a scan of the original club binder we kept the meeting notes in...

I will check it again. The DKP rules I found is from DKP 2.

Seems like a lot of car for the money . As for club stickers in cars previously owned by a member of that club , yes they should be removed .
I have sold two cars with my old club decals DZK " Down Zouth Klub " I was young and didn't realize there was another DZK please forgive me  ;) ::)  in them  ::) and it pisses me off every time I see them  :-X

did this car belong to a guy called JP, was talking to 'JP' at charlie hammills and he described his '67 and DKP membership but i couldn't think which car it was ;D

This is the idiot selling the club constitution copies.
 ::) >:(
I love the way he says he covered up the picture to prevent copying, but that is exactly what he is selling !
He doesn't own an original.
 ::) >:(

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=562863

yes the car belonged to PJ and he is building a nice bus.

Money buys stickers  I will Take Three for My Collection then?? ;D ;D

wonder how much beer has been spilt on that old binder, Sarge....  ::)... looks like it's been in the hands of some wild dogs that could write... is that a cartoon of you in the military helmet?  ;D

It does have sort of a musty smell to it (the BINDER) now that you mention it.  I think that's supposed to be Ron Fleming in the helmet... the hair and mustache look right.  What about the pic of the monkey with Don Crane written by it?? ::) ;D

I noticed the "Foster" by the K   would like to see the insides of it gotta be some good stories there.

OH dear........... i really want to keep my mouth shut but cant sorry !

DKP Club Stickers..... I agree if you sell a car to some one as a daily driver or as a show car yes they should be removed in order that they do not misrerpresent the club in anyway, however and its a big however...

If you sell the car to a collector/nutcase (i.e me) whom wants to preserve that car as a memory to the cal look scene and the DKP car club, surley there must be some reasonable grounds for this, when the cars were built and the club first exisited no-one would have guessed that this stickers or the the cars and even the owners would be in print and collectable sometimes even idolised.

I have three cars all which should display stickers, Arnies car, the Keiths chop and Doug's 67, these cars will always be their cars and i am only the key keeper looking after these treasures, IMHO it would be more offensive not to display the oriiginal sticker or even worse use a fake !!! It would be as bad as pretending to be a member of the club.

Maybe as time has moved on and as some of these treasures are collectable the club rules should be reviewed to allow its heritage to be displayed and respected for may years to come, this may also help member whom want to sell there cars allow them to move them on without fear of upsetting the club and destroying and good standing they have within the club.

Dont want to cause any offense but this is my view and if you can see it from where Im standing i hope you will agree its fair.

Ritchie your point is a valid one, but you are on a different mission. It appears that this person is using the cars past club affiliation to drum up attention and it is actually working. This car looks like it is built well and should sell regardless of its prior DKP connection. The stickers should probably be taken off in this case.

I have a question for everyone though. What your opinion of a street car? Please post below. ;D

Russel you forgot the Flemming car  ::)

 ;D

I see a sale is now pending.

Maybe the new owner will return the sticker to it's rightful owner.......?  ???

Was it a DKP2 car?

Cheers

Lofty

Enough about the stickers already!! ::)

Looks like a nice car. Couldn't build it for that much.

Yes...Maybe the Speedwell stickers I gave Phil 10 years ago should be taken off, too :o
The price is really good.

thanks Mark.

I'm just exhausted from this topic, seems to come up all the time. You can only suggest that the stickers be removed, and if the seller thinks they may get more money for a car with them still on, more often than not they will probably stay- they are getting out of the hobby and club scene anyway so what do they care?

Sorry, but I must retort!

This topic has been addressed on this forum many times in the past, I think that is why Russell's first sentence read like it did.

I wish I could have been part of the scene back then, but I wasn't even born until '81. I completely grasp the idea that the club is an elite and cherished organization (and I would personally adhere to your decal protocol if I was a club member), but you can't force anyone to do anything, so why make a fuss about something that you have no control over?

I  agree..........
AND...I'm sorry,,but
Let's move forward.........DKK FRED...NO, I'm not kidding

Even though it might have been discussed over and over again, I think this is a valid discussion, and it sure doesn't belong in Off Topic. For many this is what Cal-Look is about, the clubs and in particular the cars they built. We all want to learn and look back to cruising the boulevard or to racing at OCIR but this sticker thing is as much part of that era as anything else.

I agree with Mark that by joining the club, that elite, you bind yourself to the rules. If one of the rules states you only display club emblems on your car when you belong to the club (and as long as it stays your car) and even only as long as your car exemplifies what the club is all about (crash your car, remove stickers as long as it isn't fixed), then you have to live by that rule. Or find a club with nicer easier going people  ;D

I used to belong to a club that loosely followed the rules as set out by the original cal-look clubs, but stress was not put too much on those rules as not to offend some of the members who were into different things (not only cars, but also shows and they way to represent the club). I'm guilty of selling a car without removing the cub decals, and still feel guilty. However, decals have been handed out by many members and to many people, so to other members it wasn't that big a deal. But it should.

I finally quit the club this year, as it didn't represent the elan I was looking for, the camradery was not all there, we had no way of moving forward. I had not yet used the new-made stickers, and never will (I will keep them for memories sake though). As soon as I use my car this year the old sticker that is still in the window will go.

I do this both for respect for the club and as because I myself want to show I no longer belong to that club.

As for what Richie says, that is partly true, he is keeping the heritage alive. On the other hand he's cashing in on something he doesn't belong to. I do not know all the stories of the cars he bought. I would say, if he unearths a car that has been long forgotten, still sporting the Club decals, then he's a hsitorian,he could (should) opt to keep those on. He would be stupid not to. If however he buys the car from a standing DKP member (or a member of old) that seller has the duty to remove the stickers, and Richie should then not sulk on that as he's now a collector/investor, those are the rules.

Guys

Im okay with free speach, so im easy with all your views in fact i respect them all as we all have different views which is healthy.

Quote: Dr Jeckill: On the other hand he's cashing in on something he doesn't belong to !!!! Not sure how i can be cashing on this as i have made an investment into the scene to keep these cars alive and as they were and without change in order that in future years we can look back and say wow look how it was done then. Anyway they are for my personnel enjoyment but am very happy to share with like minded people....

For example last year was the first time i met DKK Fred, great Guy great Cars and totally respect his views thats why the quality VW car clubs are quality because of people like him, so when im at classic this year im sure he will be first to let me have a drive of his car  ;D and when he sells it to me im sure i will get the stickers, jacket, tee shirt, hat, flag, badge, tatoo he has also..... ;)

You havent seen me selling a car that says EX DKP or Ex anything, if i did ever sell any or part of my collection it would be on back of a few rules and i would like to think that this would be respected

Hello Russel,

No disrespect, didn't mean it the way it might sound  ;D I guess you're indeed into it for the personal satisfaction not the money. But like I said, once you straight out buy a built car instead of unearth it, you're entering the realm of collector/investor instead of that of Archeologist. As if you were to buy a Van Gogh  ::), you can't honestly tell me you buy it for the art, you do it for the value it represents  :P

In short, if the rules say take of stickers before you sell the car, you should just do that (if you're a member). And if you buy the car you shouldn't push the guy selling it to keep the stickers on, they loose their value once sold anyway (I heard they turn black after some time not being in the proximity of a real member ???)

I once read about the guy returning one of the DKP badges to the DKP (was on here I believe), must be a very tough decision so even more the absolute right thing to do. Karma must come his way every day now.

Ciao,
Tim

Having been in DKP for some time, this topic has been talked about considerably.  What it boils down to is really quite simple:  we ALL agree that it is the MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY to remove club decals when that member sells his car.  Even after having these discussions and agreements, that responsibility is oftentimes bypassed for some "reason" (money) which is what really galls us as a club. 

I thought you were still a prospect! Sheesh, they let anyone in these days... ;)

*APPLAUSE*

But Sarge surely thats not true,there was a girl in DKP[yes 1] wasnt there? i have seen the  members list from that time ;)

 :D

cheers richhie

But to give my point of view,the club requires you to remove the stickers in certain circumstances which as a member you should abide by,but if you dont then surely thats a problem to be taken up with the member not the buyer?


 "Bought as seen"


cheers richie

best answer here.  /\ Thanks Sarge

I've been watching this unfold, and at first thought not to say anything, but I need to.

When I joined the club in Nov 2006, it was made clear that if I ever lost heart in the scene, and decided to sell my car off, that I would remove the DKP livery from it. Of course I agreed (though I highly doubt I will ever part with my car now.... it will be handed down to my son someday, and even then, the quarter and rear windows will not run the DKP decals, unless he follows the tradition and there still is a DKP in 20 years, and he is an active member). Joining the club is contingent on your agreements you make with the club. I guess the agreements could even be referred to as vows.

In all seriousness, a DKP car that is outside of the club, due to change of ownership (or original owner leaving the club), isn't a DKP car anymore. Decals or not.

What's disappointing is that the legacy of the club has become a money making tool for some with questionable ethics. I won't say any more about that, except how frustrating I know it is for guys that grew up in making the club what it is today (key members that have been pivotal in keeping the club active and alive in the true tradition that has been going since 1965).

the comment about "finding a club with nicer, easier going people".... that doesn't refer truthfully about the DKP. I can tell you that the guys in the club are some of the nicest, easiest going guys I've met since I've been into VW's. Like I've posted before, Sarge and some of the other guys did so much to get me in and make me feel welcome. There's never ever been a cooler group of guys that have all been into the same thing. It's too bad that the image is that the club is uptight. I wouldn't call the club "elitist".... it isn't. It's simply about keeping the tradition of HAVING FUN with well-sought after fast and tasteful VW's alive.


Jim Ratto

Amen, Jim.

Since I had the greatest honour (honor, for our ill-educated cousins) of being voted into the club, I have to say that members of DKP are far from elitist. Damn, they let Carlos in, so what gives, huh? I have never been as drunk as when I've been with other club members (believe me, that takes some doing when drinking American beer…) and saw it as part of an initiation ceremony to prove that I also knew how to have fun, despite being a Brit.

Membership of DKP is the cheapest in the world. You don't have to pay any money. You just need to have attitude – and that's free, but you just have to look inside your soul to find it.

As already mentioned the members are such nice people, maybe they should amend the rules and allow one Silus the Monk character who would travel the world sorting out the deviants who abuse the name. ;D

No doubt presenting yourself as a hells angel would have serious implications :o

As far as ''investing'' in historically interesting VWs is concerned  I'm sure its far more for the love of ,more than the financial gain.
If people want to collect and celebrate ex DKP cars maybe the club could issue an alternative decal in exchange for the removal of the original.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!! 

I agree with you at 100% and I hope the tradition continues 20, 30 yrs from now...........  8)  Now, could you please translate everything you said in Spanish for me???   ;D


 >:( >:(  ;D  :-*   

[/quote]

  Now, could you please translate everything you said in Spanish for me???   ;D

[/quote]

YEAH SURE...  corn or flour por favor? ;D

Hey Ratto, didn't you notice the only smiley in my post  ;) One would almost think of you as uptight, frequented the Brits a bit too much  :P

Ohhh and by the way.......The car doesn't make the person.............the person makes the car........!!!!  And all current DKP members are the nicest people to be around so that makes their cars even better!!!!  :)

ouch! ;)

So what would be the 'right thing to do' if you had bought this car?

Keep the sticker, peel off the sticker, destroy the sticker, return it if savaleagble, cover it up with something else?

maybe investment is the wrong word and your right it is art.

So if someone unearths a vw from a time gone by is there anything wrong with leaving the stickers on it, as in true arch-e style they end up getting all the bits back together as was anyway.

So i have a DKP1 car and as the DKP1 club doesnt exsist, whom should i give the stickers too ? as anyone in DKP3 would be illegiable to receive these as they were not pert of the committie of DKP1 to return them too, so in short if a chapter of a club doesnt exsist and the sticker/car has outlived the club maybe they should be left to RIP.

Lets look at where they have helped, Dougs Ghia was found with its bonnet badge still on it had that not been there, some young kid would'nt have walked up to the club and told them about it, so this helped return a car to its rightful owner after being stolen all those years ago............

In fact had the badge not been ther i bet it would have painted and lost forever............ so they should be left on like a birth mark  ;)

I compare it to a decorated war Veteran.

The car and it's owner fought long and hard for what they believed in, in turn they were shown appreciation and acceptance for what they have achieved. 

Eventually the owner and car part ways.

I feel that it is up to the owner to keep the badge, & stickers or let them live on with the car. If they stay with the car, the car better be up to DKP standards, because it's still Representin....... ;D

Until they start letting in Fiats they are a bunch of elitist ::) ;D

That's my story and I'm sticking with it

Its a car club for fast cars not rusty old fiats !  ;)

You might have to just roll yours up to the line and take a shot Mr. Richie -- -- ugly is always faster -- Blue cars always win

That's my story and I'll ride it home

ok, i'll take it a little farther, my bahama blue 65 and don metz 68 vert both have dkp decals.We where both in dkp 2. We know "the love, pride of dkp".If we felt our cars where not dkp material we would of never put decals in. BUT we where never voted in with these cars. ???? So, how about x dkp cars.. if never changed in quality/look shouldn't they keep the decals. There are NOT that many..We in dkp2understood, sell the car, scrape the decals.I personally like that there is a dkp 3 logo. I remember talking to mike dumphy, dkp2 prez before roger grago,about dkp 1 members thoughts on dkp2.Major opinion differences, Could not stop us,most said,wish us the best, remember the standards etc.i like ratto's thoughts/opinions. it's also about the dedication, personality of the member. Dkp 3 members have done a top notch job of keeping/understanding the dkp name.PERIOD.They need to be commended.Keep it going,"Quality, not quanity."bill.. p.s. " I'm keeping my decals in...proud to be of dkp blood..

I will always think of Mike Dumphy as being the president of DRF.  He is the one that signed my membership card in 1973.  Along with Bob Chapman, Treasure.   Dave Rhoads

It is time to get over this.Phil sold the car for personel reasons and removed the hood badge and stickers and that was a long time ago.There are other people who sold there cars and left the stickers on.I don't see anybody making a big deal about that.DKP is a very close group friends who have the same attitudes about VW's.Lets move on about this and bitch about something else.

So


type4's is it callook or not???





 ;D ;)

Maybe the current DKP , could have some ' DKP Heritage ' stickers made , or something like that . So that  when a car is transferred/sold , from the non original builder/owner , the current or past stickers could be removed , and if removed intact , put on a display board , with information about the original owner/builder , that could be displayed when the car is on show .

The current owner of the car would be responsible for maintaining the car to the DKP standards and style of the applicable era , this could be vetted by the current DKP members .

It would kind of give you a ' DKP Heritage ' society , which would give the new owners something to belong to , and make sure that the previous DKP rides . stayed in time-warp condition .

So they wouldn't be a DKP member , but a custodian of the heritage of the club ?

Maybe a black and white 'DKP Heritage ' sticker or badge ?

   I have a nice collection of various club stickers and Tshirts dash plaques etc ...I also have a few DKP stickers original one and as  well as new generation and Tshirts too. I like to display them ONLY. I will have them again at the BUG-IN I have told many lookers they are for display ONLY not for sale so the DKP club knows me better.


    Thanks
    Frenchy

Shouldnt I have got some stickers with those wheels you lent me? :o :D ;) 

cheers richie,uk

I have to agree with this idea in principle , but it could get a little complicated . :-\

66 posts and (now) just 20 from DKP members, past or present. It's interesting that more non-members have opinions about the subject than members!  :D

  :o  make that 21 ::) ;)

sarge,
make that 67 to 21.  here's my $.02, if your not in the club, get rid of the stickers.  you can easily R/R the glass, and keep the old stickers as an art piece on the old window.  If you were in the club, and the club is no more, keep the stickers.
jim

Make that 67 to 22!

In light of the constitution Sarge posted, I realized that I never got a set of keys to the clubhouse!  ;D

did you ever check out that video?

Maybe one answer would be to have two types of decals? Active members would have that stated on the decals "ACTIVE" with the DKP logo and others who are not wouldn't; just the logo. I do agree and it is a good point that if the member is not active anymore he/she shouldn't display the stickers; but here is an alternative.
Just an outsiders opinion looking in. ;)

 -club stickers are for club members. Period.

 If anyone has bought a car that has club stickers left on, I don't see any justifiable reason to keep them on.

[Surely] the car is bought on its merits AS A CAR. -anyone who says otherwise is admitting they paid a premium for a sticker ...  :D

..lastly, if someone wants to 'show-off' that their car used to belong to a club, and meet that clubs measurements (quality or otherwise), then anyone who is likely to be interested will know the car anyway(!) -sticker or no sticker...

Time to move on me thinks...   ;)


.

It's a good job volkswagen didn't feel the same way :D

or perhaps they did and the beastie boys were in charge of a movement to remove the badges and return them to the fatherland ;D

Hello Frenchy,
I think you are the only "non DAS member" to own a "Der Autobahn Scrapers" original stickers in your display cabinet ! Thanks Wayne :))) Be our guest :)

About the stickers removed or not if a club car is sold...
DAS rules says also the stickers must be removed. And if the DAS member or ex DAS member did'n did it. When we saw the car at a show, we talks wit the new owner and we remove the stickers by our own.

As an exemple :
The Jums sold the blue 68 to Roland whit the stickers. Next show we remove them after argumentation... It was not easy to undersand for Roland at this time !
Now Roland grows-up, make is classes, undersand what's happend in the club, and find is own way in the club. He realy deserve is new stickers last year at EBI2. Almost ten years after he bought the 68. Good job Rol !

Join the DAS is not a easy way but when you are in, you are in ! :) The man make the car not the opposite !

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Well said, Mike! :) 8)

Totally correct, so anyone trying to look good through a car based on its sticker is going to make an ass of himself anyways.
I understand that Russell is in a different position, but in that case I think everyone else also see the difference.

[/quote]

I understand that Russell is in a different position, but in that case I think everyone else also see the difference.
[/quote]

I agree whit you !

    I had those stickers now for about 8 years or more also I have a T Shirt from your club. At the Bug In this year I will have other club T Shirts to display.

    Thanks
    Frenchy

i know something about that  :-\

now 15 years i know the guys from the club

So am I still considered a DAS member???  I just finished a nice 55 that needs some decals.  Whats up Mike, Rowan, Fred, Kobus and all the other DAS fellas !!!

Saw that at Phoenix. Looked nice :)

beautiful oval.

Do you have any photos in electronic format of your black 'Vert?

Hey Wayne ! Wat'up ?
Your 55 is realy amazing ! Like always you put a realy good taste on it ! I remember well your magnificent black 65 convertible. I stil have your Bugorama Trophy in my office ! It make me feel good when I remember these two months in the US :) We met so many cool people we stil knew today as friends !

When DAS club begin, we attempt to do some thing like a "Cal-Look quality label" from our Stickers. Cal look "Old-school" beetle were not so many 15 years ago. After some desapointment (Wayne were not a desapointment at all :)) we realise our plan was impossible to do in practice. The club circle of influence is effective from aprox 30 miles from Waterloo our home town. And when we see each other realy often. Once a week from almost 17 years...
So Wayne, to answer you Q : you are not a effective member but, as Frenchy, a good old honorary Member :)
If one of you come to live near Waterloo one day... Call me for stickers ;)

That is a sweet ride, Wayne. Nice job! If you've got more pics of your car, please share them with us.

Thanks,
--Eric

I agree.... more pics!!!

    Merci beaucoup a mais copain en Belgique vous avais un club magnifique et des belle voitures.

     Merci encore
     Jean - Louis Dehoux ( Frenchy )

Thanks guys!  Mike I understand regarding DAS (your still mad I did not wear the DAS shirt in the volksworld photo shoot of my vert!) it was a very nice compliment to receive the shirts and decals over 10 years ago!  The DAS club has progressed well!  I might take you up on the move to Waterloo!!!  I still got the vert by the way.  Take care my Belgium friends.

Last time I saw that 'vert was at the InterRail trainyard. I don't miss that job one bit!!

Nice Oval Wayne.  Hope you are well!  :)

Doing good, still building cars, I have another vert in the works.  Been busy building this hotrod though.

hey wayne, nice rpu! what tiresize is it running?

Nice ride ! Always a good taste ! Hope to see you and your green 55 at Bug-In 34 !?

Tis mine now and in the UK with a new friend  ;D

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Nice to see mike , but is that a DKP sticker left in the window  ::)
Look forward to seeing it in the flesh  8)

Won't be there for long....... ;)

I'm more concerned about the 'Berdoo' stickers and their supposed connections to convicted Hells Angels  :o

I'd like to add my 2 pence (or cents for our American and Euro friends)




























Nice car Lofty  ;D