The Cal-look Lounge

Fiat, what do you think of them?  Why do they allow them at VW's show.
What if, we keep the engine lid closed on two identical cars at a show,
one of them do have a VW engine and the other don't. Actually it has it's
original engine in the back. Will you say: "yaaa, way to go" to the one with a VW engine, and
"what a f... is that car doing here at a VW show" to the other?

I ask the same question last time. Maybe its something nostalgie, but Im not interessed in such cars :-\

Sadly. if you have to ask these questions, then you clearly have little knowledge of the VW drag racing scene back inthe 1960s/70s! VW-powered Fiat gassers were a big part of the scene and have every right to be part of the scene today - or did Darrell Vittone get it all wrong when he built the Race Shop Fiat? ::)

Well..a Fiat will always be a Fiat, no matter if it's powered by an aircooled flat four or not. But they make cool race cars!  8)

Wow!! Tossing this issue back and forth a litlle. This is what I came up with. The combo of a Fiat body and a type 4 engine has to be something to talk about. Let's put the "it is a street car" issue to it and we have the whole internet on fire!! Anyway...I like the Fiat gassers and have no problem with them. The ealy non chopped version of the Litlle Giant Killer is hard core!!

Well, the Fiats are a big part of the Gasser nostalgia...  and they were raced by the VW crowd, with hot VW engines...   They were, and are, sort of a extreme lightweight trick... kinda like Buggys.  I have no problems with them... but hey, I like Porsches to ;-)

Hi,
You're right, my knowledge of nostalgia gassers isn't big, but a beetle with a liquid cooled Alfa engine is for me the same as a Vw powered Fiat..

Funny discusion.

How do the rest of you think about a Vw powered Fiat?

Cheers,
Sander

Well I like the Fiats with a VW engine...

But-I have to agree that a Fiat with a VW engine is the same for me like a buggy with a Corvair engine-real nice conversions but not "strictly" VW somehow. Nevertheless it´s still a "petrolhead´s hobby" and not a religion ;D, so for me personal everything is interesting that´s got to do with aircooled VW stuff, and gassers based on a Fiat body are always interesting although not being my cup of tea.

But very intereting discussion going on here!

I just have to say that i love the fiat.... in nostalgic gasser look....
for me its a kind of history..........

some old fiat pict  ;)

 ;) miller & park fiat 850

love  fiat with hots vw engine very sexy   :o

 8)

By all means, they are cool. Anything Type 1 powered is cool. To me it doesn’t matter if it is an airplane, an air boat, a VW powered lawn mower or an air compressor. A Type 1 powered Fiat fits right in. Looking back in history it also fits the California-Look. In my humble opinion, the only un-cool VW powered vehicles are semi truck like trikes and Albar Buggies. I get the shivers just thinking about Albar buggies, but that’s another story.

Peace  ;D

As Frederic said at DAS DRAG DAY last year it may be a Fiat but it has a heart of a vw. Sorry you have got to love them part of VW drag racing history. Great photo Sharkman of Pete at the pod hope it was ok to use it on here. ;D

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/gold65turbo/peter_englezos_wheelie.jpg)

This must be one of the nicest Pictures of Pete's Fiat I've seen so Far...Night Racing Rules!!!

Frank

 there'isnt that the fiat 500,600,850 which were modified, you should not forget fiat x1 / 9 here is a very beautiful example kelly larry's baby huey too

 ;)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5001750793_7e47991fc0_b.jpg)

I dig Fiats with VW engines! The race shop Fiat is just stunning!
And everytime I see Petes´ car starting at the tree I drip my pants.

For me it works well!

But this whole "it MUST be period correct" ... and ... "it has to be the original whatever" isn´t my cup of tea anyway.
I like strong flat4s. And if someone makes a 10sec run in an ugly duck like an Albar Buggy I take my hat off  to him, too!
I even kinda like this idea!  ::) ;D
 

     I guess I better park my NSU VW powered across the street for the Classic and at Nick's burger.

     Frenchy

IMHO I think FIATS were used in the VW scene was because of their wonderful aerodynamics  at that time. They seemed to be much more aerodynamic and lighter than any VW body. The origins probably started with EMPI. It might of been that the manufacture of origin of these cars matched the founder's own heritige. (Itaian) Cannot think of any other VW powered FIATS prior to Joe Vittone's Race Shop FIAT. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Darrell built a VW powered VESPA also !
 :o

That's right! I forgot all about that one. Another Italian design (Piaggio) but French built.  Very different but very cool. I'll take one CHOPPED! Where is that car now? Gasser Garage's next find?  :D

I heard Russell is spending his Holidays in Italy from now on  ;D ;D ;D

:D    :D      :D

That must be a hot car !  :o

di(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/lee-maynard/227.jpg)d someone say frenchy lol..........................................can't wait to see the NSU

That one is mine, planing to take it to EBI.

(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2296/p1100301small.jpg)

Different, more pics off it?

It's a 126p, currently in progress, I'm finishing some minor bodywork stuff, engine mounts etc are already made. Hopefully I'll finish it this spring. It will be street legal.
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1246/p1100303small.jpg)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3411/p1100308small.jpg)

I'm planing to make it look something like my previous 126p, but with different stance etc
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4630/p1020098small.jpg)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2050/p1020102small.jpg)

http://www2.cal-look.com/nostalgia/fiatgasser.html      ;)

Does a 912 motor count? 

Cool project !

<600kg with rollcage, 2332, IDA's, should be fun

From my point of view, you can get a decent Fiat 126 here for around 1-3 hundred $. You have to count 10-20 times us much for a Beetle and still it will probably by rusted through and already restored (most often badly) few times in it's life.
Stock Fiat weights less than a lightened Beetle (not only because of the size, you have to look how Fiat's are made comparing to VW's. Cheaply)
Engine and gearbox fit's quite easily.
Fiat's are fun.

So if you have a Beetle engine and you wan to win races.... what would you choose? I don't expect the answer. My point is that people in sunny California in the 60ties or 70ties probably faced similar question. And this may have been a reason why you could find Fiat's racing there and then. I don't see why it should be different now.

This being said, I will rather stick to Beetles. But this will most probably mean losing.

Old Fiats were simply (often cheaply) designed, that means they were affordable, light, easy to modify. And they were designed like the VWs : rear-engined etc... Maybe another reason there were so much on the drag strips is because they were more imported to the US than other little european cars (except VWs)  ???

Do I get to express my unbiased opinion????

[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

[attachment=3]

[attachment=4]

I remember there being a cool looking street driven fiat spyder featured in hot VW's back in the 90's that was a burgandy colour and had a Jack Sacchette motor fitted 

Gino Garcia's. Went to Japan. Ask Deano about his wild ride in it… 8)

ok let's see the report  ;)

 ;)

nice one speedwell you come up trumps again 8)

hey Deano what about this ride?  ???   :)

I really hate being left out, so heres another.

Oooh, real nice car. And a real sunroof 600 at that. Any pictures of the inside of the roof for me? I'm in doubt whether to install one or not and would like to see how hard it would be.

By the way, great thread, keep them coming.

I like all of them. I actually wanted to build one of the 850's for a long time but could never find one straight enough to start with.  From the first time I saw the Inch Pincher Fiat and Rich Bays first FIAT (prior to the "Little Giant Killer" days of Lloyd Mosher) I have liked all of them. I can't wait to see Frenchy's NSU either. Ingenuity is always the mother of invention.  All the cars posted here are cool in their own way.

Rick M

Thats the bollox..

Man I should have never sold my 600..Biggest regret of my car ownership :(

Somebody find one for sale !!

Happy Days.


Must get the little fella out for another blast....

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d18/autocraft/martin_taylor_02.jpg)

take this one to ebi 4, she miss me i like it ,last time i saw her it was at ebi 1,some pure hell wheeling

Looks like the exhaust also doubles as a wheelie bar !
 :)

I know of several for sale out here in Calif

Mine may be for sale as well, unless our local track here decides that I can race. Thanks for the compliments and I will try to get some sunroof pics up.
Brian.

I remember the Cicerone car in the early days in So Cal. Where is it now?

Rick Mortensen

ITS OVER WERE MOSS GROWS ON TOP OF EVERBODYS ROOF. except on FAST FIATS.  . UD. BTW  i miss that little fellar. martin.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs561.snc3/30680_10150185372250444_813030443_12828352_6774505_n.jpg)

and a very happy Ian :)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs659.snc4/59949_10150261582995444_813030443_14938247_1722624_n.jpg)

(http://www.offdrc.co.uk/images/gallery/gallery_2006_008/photo_2006-10-23_047.jpg)

I love fiats,

here're some of lil wop per (cicerone) , may be those came from UD correct me if i 'm wrong


those were may be at the beginning of the race life of the ca ,r note the scheme paint is different

 ;)

another cool 600 the jumbo shrimp check the tread with this car here (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,11971.0.html)

the famous little giant killer when rich bay owned the car

1790cc 912 engine

and LGK when lloyd mosher owned , now the car reside in belgium

the legendary 850 from the raceshop

 ;)

 ;)

and the 850 without  the hardtop , this one was the "stage II"

 ;)

some x1/9 now

the baby huey too

the mc manus x1/9 ex baby huey too

 ouch :o jack sachette x1/9

Great Fabs !

 ;)

other 850

more

question : how many fiat darrell has builds ?

more modern 850 ;)

and a 500 from germany , i never seen this car in real and never no news about this one
if someone 've some can you share with us
thx

and some i've in my archives

 ;)

 ;)

He's keeping My 52 Company.

They sit next to each other, who knows what they talk about.


Dont worry UD, he's still loved ;) Part of the family


Martin

I  I THINK THE WHEELIE BAR SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LONGER !!!

How about somebody posting the Hot VW`s article with Geno`s Street Fiat?

     The red 600 Fiat with the rear apron painted black and cut out for the exhaust  is my old Fiat in the line up at one of the Bug Ins.

     Frenchy

bryan check here (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,91.msg216883.html#msg216883) or page 2 on this tread  ;)

fabs

This one is so sweet! It nearly makes me want to build up a fiat. :-\

[attachment=1]

??? ??? ???

What do you mean by 'how many'? The Raceshop Fiat hardtop and softop, and Motion Sickness are one and the same car (along with the Bullet...)

thx keith , that the answer i would like to heard  ;D
when darrell sell the fiat to puerto rico and came the chimpance someone send me an email with this : Race shop fiat "Chimpance" as raced by Jimmy Bou (Puerto Rico) and Bear
and i heard also a story about the car running against each other several time and  el guineo won several race and what in every race he said that the chimpance was again going to run after the banana "el guineo"
here's the car it look the same color as the bullet ??? can someone light me
thx

Don't forget this X-19 out of Pensacola Florida, built by Jimmy Phetteplace in the early 80's, now owned by Lester at Locash Racing
(http://locashracing.org/FiatX-19/Fiat%20X19%20new.jpg)

here're other pictures of the chimpace fiat

    The white Fiat with the BRM's the wheels are sitting under the fender well but were never on the car just for look in that picture. His name is Jeff Shaw and sold the car before he was able to finish it.

    Frenchy

The Race Shop Fiat in yet another life…

[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

[attachment=1]

WOW that's a lot of them! Still, no 126, that's good. Fired up the engine yesterday, it's going in a good direction.

What´s the reason you see more VW-powered 600 than 500?
Is it because of the space for the engine?

 ??? 

600 is a lot bigger then 500, it's also more stable etc. You can't imagine how small and fragile the 500 is until you have one. I recently restored one for my girlfriend so I know.
126 is good because it's something between 500 and 600. It's almost the same floor as the 500 but the body is a little bit biger - just enough to make the engine swap easier. And it's still lighter then the 600. It was made until 2000 so parts are cheap and easliy avilable. I just bought whole right side of the car (it's a one piece) new, OEM, for 10$

When I did the 600 -- my axle lengths were 10-12" and the 500 is about 6-8" narrower -- we had just finished doing my 600 and we found a bug-eyed 500 and we're thinking about converting it -- everything was very very VERY tight, maybe with an extremely narrow engine would make it easier (read - small cc), but once you have gone big it is hard to go back LOL.

Fiatdude, do you have stock fiat suspension or this also swapped from a beetle? Do you have any photos of the engine mounts etc?

We used the stock swing arms but with a welded in VW IRS carrier -- We had to notch the swing arms to fit the 205's inside the wheel well -- I probably should of braced them beter where we notched them because they bent when we got the turbo motor over 300 HP -- that is when we went to custom swing arms

At about 18-20 seconds you can see the stoch swing arms with the carriers being used -- -- we used the stock springs and shocks in the stock location on both the stock and custom swing arms -- it seemed to work quite well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uki344VRGDE

and you can see the custom ones here -- -- we used the same carriers from VW dune buggies on both

[attachment=1]

Thank you. I'm using stock arms witch stock  hubs, stiffer springs and bilstein shock absorbers. Halfshafts will be a hibrid - vw irs/fiat. 126 arms are stronger so they should be ok, I think.

my all time favorite fiat  8)

 I had never paid attention before, darrell had put  other bucket seats before(small black)
several report were with the black one and other with the taller one

and it seems that the car were showed with silver aluminium panel   before being anodized gold  ;)

...the gearbox is  vw ?

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=91.0;attach=48294;image)

It took a VW man to make this car look so great. I really can't get enough of looking at these pictures.
The 850 in standard form doesn't look quite right. When its stance is improved and a V-dub engine in the back awesome!

x2   iwould like to have a similar car for the road

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2B7csMLK38

 ;D

ahh dude that kills me

thank you very much for that.nice touch inside and out VID very smooth. OH NO ROB HAS (FIX  IT  AGAIN  TONY) on his mind AGAIN. when i see you some time rob i will slap you for selling THE BEAN. hey it looks like it went to a good home for sure. will just have to get you another thats all . GOOD JOB GUYS. thanks again for that. THAT WAS BITCHEN!!!. . UD. ;) :'( ;D

one of the most SMOOTHEST DARN VIDIOS i have ever wittnest. my god what did you use to hold the camera out side the car FNN BRIDGE MATERIAL that camera dosent move an inch. nice gears ya got in there wish i would have had a box like that when i had her makes it that much more of a blast. also the song you choose is spot ODD on that sound that goes thrue the whole vid then ends it. couldnt have been better.  sorry the rambeling.  love it. UD . 

yeah we want to know your camera set-up.....that was sweet...but I would like to hear it without music

Thanks Jeff, Really Appreciated :D

http://gopro.com/cameras/hd-motorsports-hero-camera/

That's the camera's I have, one of the best bits of kit I've ever bought! Got 2 of them and bought a roll cage mount extra too.

Haha yeah its in better hands now, wish I had kept it and just finished it when I grew up...! Looks the bollox :)

Cool video Alex - Shouyld have had it for the SCC roadtrip  :)

On another note - If I remember rightly isn't "Lil Wopper" still running a 2180cc SPG'd motor  :-\ :)

I'm fairly sure it is, and on Hilborn alky injection too!

sure is ;)

He's going back the the 48's to start clocking up some more road miles ;)

That Video brings it all back...... Man wopers a bundle of fun on the road.

Cool glad to hear its gonna see some street action again  :)

DEAMNN.

i know its not AIR but this H20 ABARTH 500 gives me BIG WOOD for sure. what a Gorgas ride or as you Brits put it LOVLY. .UD .

I saw one of these cruising out in the Tx hill country lately. I said, what the ...??? First thing I thought of was how COOL one would be with a giant air-cooled PLANT out back, boiling the hides and taking the fronts for an elevator ride. ;)

like this???? You should turn the sound way up LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCYMko46D6s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H72EkT3ZB8

The best part of the new Fiat is it can be ordered with a power sliding cloth sunroof !

I measured up my wifes Fiat 500, and I reckon there is just enough room in the back for an air-cooled motor... ;) She won't let me cut it up though! :(

(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa286/mrclean3437/buzzinbeepictures275.jpg)

bump
Finished a longblock for my fiat yesterday

(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2127/p1100579small.jpg)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1862/p1100586small.jpg)

Nice!

Thanks, but this is nicer:
A trial fit - I'm fabricating all the tinware now.
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9924/p1100595small.jpg)

No doors etc but after a year of hard work it's running
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLPXGl1zzak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLPXGl1zzak)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjSepLC24qI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjSepLC24qI&feature=related)

Nice --- Need a few burn outs on some pavement next

Will do;) Can't wait to burn some rubber (quaife will help;)). I'll make a thread about it when it'll be finished.

How many VW/Fiat 850 racers where there?
Race Shop
Sting
Sting II? ( I remember something about one built in the UK a few years back? Joe G??)
Miller & Park (never heard of it)
Windowmaker
WPS


Were they all 67's (sloped headlight)? Or were there others?

And what's up with the Race Shop one these days? Russell?!

zach ,
sting & stnig II are the same
[attachment=1]
(http://shim1.shutterfly.com/procgserv/47b6d709b3127cce98548b81c2ff00000017108QYs2zhyyZ-)

miller &parks car was crashed if i'm right
[attachment=2]

widomaker came to hawai and was repainted white and renamed  snowtiger and crashed too if i'm right
[attachment=3]

Wps was  ex dennis georges fiat who  was painted brown and yellow back in the day , but i never found any pictures of that one  , denni's died and car was for sale
[attachment=4]

there's also  the midgetts & woods fiat
i've talked several times with terry woods and he said that david midgett came to darrell's place
David spent a week at Darrel Vittones house going over his Fiat to get ideas to build ours.
[attachment=1]

[attachment=4]
there's also pat mc dermott fast fiat  ,
i've found also a guy on fb who was building one

[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]

there's also El Gandul III from puerto rico
[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]

there's may be some others , still need to find them ;)

Wow, that's service! Thanks Fabs!

That's gotta be the perfect Fiat to do a VW transplant. Small, light, aero, and it's already rear engined.

If I remember rightly, the Sting had the running gear from the Race Shop Fiat when that was updated to its lower stance, at some point after the roof came off.

neils ,  i've heard too that the guys who owned the red/white fiat have also parts from the raceshop fiat , now what is true or not??
after the raceshop fiat was totally rebuild and painted grey with the motion sickness name
[attachment=1]
she was sold to puerto rico and was named chimpance , and the car had 2 mores owner there so what original parts  are still on the car ???not so much for me
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
 after the car was driven by bear barrileaux and still owned by jimmy bou but hte car had a new paint scheme
[attachment=4]

here's a picture of the raceshop fiat when she was  owned by jimmy bou and when the car come to the US to be race again
[attachment=1]

the car had not paint

here's some words from jimmy bou & bear barrileaux about that photo

JB:when we shipped it to Texas,Bear asked me if he could repaint it with his traditional VW colors,and i told him No Problem,so all the pictures you see in those colors,it is Bear at the wheel!
JB: he painted  the brown color Bear had in his VW and his late wife dragster.

i've asking why the car had no color and bear answer me

BB:we were racing almost every weekend at the time and it got finished between races . take the engine out Monday send car to paint shop pick it up Thursday ready or not put engine in go racing

to add some info words from dean kirsten
 Darrell did sell some of the parts off the first build, to another Fiat from Kentuky, (shown). Parts sold to this other car included rear suspension parts, and fiberglass fenders, etc.

Here's the last pictures I have of Pat's Fiat -- the last time out before selling it -- the guy that bought it is suppose to be running it this year in the BRS series

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/Fiat/20140504_072823_zpsidew6x2d.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/Fiat/20140504_072823_zpsidew6x2d.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/Fiat/20140504_155615_zpsvsa6kous.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/Fiat/20140504_155615_zpsvsa6kous.jpg.html)

Here's a video of it running a 9.0 right off the trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUAp0xiKUbA

and something that is laying around in the weeds

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/Fiat/850fiat_zps741b60d4.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/Fiat/850fiat_zps741b60d4.jpg.html)

and here's some explanation about the fiat's life  from Darrell to eric ballard
words from jimmy bou

JB :  Hi Fabian.I bought the Fiat from Darrell Vittone in Dic.1975.It was on grey primer paint and read on the doors "Motion Sickness". We painted in P.R. and named it Chimpance.We raced it locally and took it in march to Gainesville in March for the Gatornationals and in July to the Summernationals in Englishtown.One day in 1980 i called Bear in TX.and asked him if he would race the car in the U.S using his engines.He said yes and we shipped the car to Beaumont and he raced it in National events and we flew to help him and watch him race.When he broke the K/Gas record he out his name and ours in the diploma.After a year and a half he shipped it back to P.R.After some time i sold it to a local guy who race it for a year or two.One day i receive a phone call from Eric Ballard interested in buying the car and i called the local guy and Eric flew to P.R. and payed $8000 without engine or trans.and i helped him put it on the boat to CA.Later i saw some pictures of the car with the Bullet name.

here's a picture of bear racing the car at bug in 27

Found these on Samba...

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/697534.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/352460.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/339011.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/199720.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/199714.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/49268.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/49103.jpg)

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/48706.jpg)

Cool :)

Shameless plug :)

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,24304.0.html

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1498844.jpg)

Baby Huey?