The Cal-look Lounge

The early 1970's hot rod VW's.... the 1700 was the hot ticket, with the occasional 1835 or stroker mixed in, as the decade wore on. By the 80's, 94's had come around, and street cars started running 1914's, etc... at least from what I can remember. By the time 1991-92 came around, I had the 2276 in my own car with Super Flows and the Berg K10 cam, and at least up north... it was sort of unheard of to run a "big" motor, at least that big.
But now?
What do you think the signature "cal look" motor will be remembered as, within the last 15 years or so?


Turbo?

I have a feeling I know what most of you will say... and if I am right, I'll post some further thoughts.

I would say 2276 as featured in the HVWs Blueprinting article with slight variations. But the basic recipe is the same. K-8 cam, 82 or 84 stroke, 90.5/94 pistons, 48 idas, Berg sump, Berg linkage, MSD dizzy, welded or cnc heads, etc. 

For a while there almost every engine you saw in mags had the same basic cookie cutter pattern. (Hey it works, why not.) I think the next step will be the 3 liter monsters that are just now hitting the street.

Edit: I must be slow. I just figured out who 1970 is.

--louis

2276.

44 x 37 11:1CR

There has been a shift over the last few years to running a webcam 86b on the street, though i prefer my 86c :)

2276 with VW journal, 5.4 rods and CNC heads.  K8 and 1.4's.  Will need very little fitting in engine compartment or trimming of tin.  No big shims under Cima barrels.

As much as I know "it works", the 2276/K8 deal, to me is overrated. From my experience, the K8 in the 2276 has no soul. Sure it runs and it's fast, but they run too much like a 1776/110, just bigger. Easy to drive, even for your mom. Good for 13's, drive it everyday...and so on. And I'm sure a dozen guys will debate it with me, but the powerband is just too plain vanilla. Drop the K8 in a 69mm stroke motor, and it's altogether different.

The 86C? It deserves its revered status. Look back almost 20 yr ago, Schwimmer was gunning high 12's out of the coral rag...same motor that shows up quietly to Nicks every month. Under 4500, as tame as the K8, but above? Better hang on.

Still like to see a resurgence of under 2000cc/high CR/40x35 or 42 x 37/'95%race' cams...   90.5x76, 310 degrees plus...  anyone?

2276 - fk/89 11:1 ho heads 44x37.5

ho heads huh? they put out?

Without a doubt: 1776, 7:1 compression, 40x35.5mm valves MAX, 1-3/8 heater box header and quiet pack, dual Kadrons or other similar single-barrel carbs.  You just can't get reliable power above 7:1 on the street.





















 ;D ;D

hey 1970,you got a problem with my og ho's.head uo bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't but their 'pimpin' iz tuff' daddy Notcho does. Bitch.

Without a doubt it would have to be a 2275cc  with big heads ,pump gas & a big cam.
This combo brought reliable 12 sec street sedans to the masses.
 I remember when I was 1st putting my motor together the only other person I knew of with a street motor that big was Mark H. however his was a bit milder than mine. I just wanted something that was really fast, but did'nt run on race gas. I ended up building a motor with race spec parts & technology but with no compression.

It seems to have worked out pretty well, maybe I will take it apart some year.
 
Some people talk about how years ago small cc motors were runnings 12's, I seem to remember most of them having lots of compression, light cars & the motors taking themselves apart all the time.
 Bang for the buck, its hard to beat a 2275 w/ cnc heads. It seems like they all make 200hp without even trying.  I had to work at mine way back when. Nobody had done it yet..
 As for the future  4" bore is here, I drove one the other night, it makes mine seem like a toy.

2303CC W/XR310 Babe Erson cam, 44X37 Perf. Tech. heads, Berg 1 3/4 header, IDA's, made some good HP on Bergs dyno. Back when.

Most popular? Anything from 1915 to 2800ccm NA/Turbo/NOS, whatever works on the street for you. Size does not matter - HP does. Anything less than 150hp is borring and I do not want a borring hobby.

Bill S' motor became the template I think (for good reason), but I don't think most guys went with as far with cam and heads. And most guys can't run with Bill's car either. I know it was seeing his car go like a bat out of hell @ Sears Pt way back in 1992 that got me to notice his setup. His OEM head motor was leaving my Super Flow head motor in the dust.

I do think cylinder volume vs cam duration coupled with headwork does matter. 175hp that runs up to 6000 is not as much fun to me as 150hp that comes on hard after 4K and goes to 7K.

This will never be a mainstream movement because it is too easy and cheap to build something larger. The diehards focused on nostalgia will, however, be forever interested. For now I will stick with my 1914; hangon here comes 4k and 7k is not far up the road ;D

I have to agree with you on that, but you will have fun longer with the "boring" 175hp engine.
And that counts too.

1915/K8/IDA best bang for buck for a student cal look engine

I have to agree there.

Jesse, I'd bet you are right.  Probably more 1914's than anything else out there.

      1776 or 2276
      Frenchy

I think he's hiding from a killer...........seriously.  :o

I think the most popular Cal Look engine combo for the last 15 years has to be the 2276 or 2332/FK-8/44 x 37.5 heads/IDAs. It's a cookie cutter combo that make good power without much thought.

84 okrasa, 88 slippers, 42x37.5 Steve Tims heads, crane 320b, Empi 1.4 rockers, 220 hp, now thats a cal-look motor

i think 1776 i know a lot of people who started with a 1776 an then went bigger.

henk!!!

went straight to 1914  8), didn't cost any extra than a 1776.  Still don't see the point of 1776!

When my 2110 (82 X 90.5) with 42 X 37.5 valves, IDA's and K10 was recently finished people said that it's an "old school" motor.  Is it?  I have seen many 2110's around in cars that are regularly street driven.  All I know is that it runs really well and pulls hard through all the gears.

I used a K10 cam because I heard a few call the K8 a "Grandma Cam" and I wanted something with a bit more high end power. 
From what  have seen and heard it sounds as though the 4" bore is the future.  If I ever "upgrade" my engine in the future I would definitely look in to a 4" bore combination.

78.4 X 90.5
w120 with 1.25 ratio rockers ( the mark herbert cam  read about that combo on the other forum tech articles)
9.1 / 1 compression
steve tims stage one heads
45 dellorto drla
1 5/8 merged with dynomax muffler

a lot fun without trouble ;D

ok this is a farmer engine but it works for me and is fun enough on the streets!!!

dirk

not 89mm x 76mm, Engle 160, 42 x 35 heads by Ray Litz and DCN Webers on ACE manifolds?

engle 160 ???

duration, valve lift?

dirk

you'll have to ask somebody with more experience.... Sarge?  ;D

O.K.

less duration and lift than engle 170 right ;D ;D ;D

just a tick I hear.  ;D

Did you ever run it at the track?  If so, what kind of times?

2276, K8... wins, hands down. And I suppose I haven't driven enough big motors, but I thought the "generic" 2276 I drove a few times was plenty fun. What did you think, Ryan?? ;) It could be lugged around town at 1500 rpm, and blast up to 7k in a blink. I want a motor like that, but just a tiny bit wilder on the heads, cam, cr, etc. 1915 is without a doubt the best bang for your performance buck, though.
I'd like to see how these 4" bore motors evolve...

hi bugnut 68,

never raced it at the track, for sure i will do it but there are some problems....

my 4 years old son like to go with me every time i go to a track or a bug show and i'm searching for a "children seat (don't know the right word in english)",  who fit in my cobra seats.

at the moment i drive only with our family bug to every event :(

the most time i can drive my car is during my son is out of house with my wife.
sometimes i drive a short trip with him around our home town, but i can't do a long trip without the right "children seat" for safety reasons...

 but the engine is for sure a pleasure to drive, strong from 2000-6500rpm.
my gearbox is a 74 german swingaxle with 4.375 and 0.93 fourth gear and small diameter 195/65-15 tyres and my bug is light.

dirk

Some one here with an old 1970's vintage Auto Haus catalog should be able to settle this.  I'm fairly certain the 160 was an option for a while.

Hey Bugnut68....who told you more than 7.0 on the street will not run and be reliable?  That is a myth. There are a lot of motors, mine was one, that run over 8.0 on the street.  My 2110 was 8.3.  With the right cam and timing, piston mods and cylinder head mods you can run more than a doggy 7.0 on the street and yes....they do live.  Gas octane has a lot to do with it as well.  My vanagon came from the factory with 9.0 compression...but you'd have to see the piston and head combo to see some of the things done to help these run with this type compression.

There are a lot of ways to run more than 7.0 and have a motor that runs well on the street, is still driveable, dependable and will live.  I've personally done it and I know there are many others out there who are doing it too.

Rick M

Regarding the unstreetable Engle 160, duration was 340 deg. Lift, not enough. We used a 82x88, engle 130, Square port,  (ex Don Crane) w/11.25 comp. motor to run consistent 12.70s. Just another under-capitalized club racer.

Anyone out there remember "Dirty Dave Vanderbeke"? 

;)

hey i was just wondering, im having a street/sunday car/strip twice a year, 2276 built but iv bought a Web 86b cam but all my mates are telling me that i will always wonder what a 86c is like (supposedly alot wilder and probs better?) and i should change it now before i start the build, Some words from the wise would be greatly appreciated lol  ;D

cheers

I remember Vanderbeke.  I loved his multi-color orange and yellow drag bug. It went through several versions with Dave Vanderbeke on the side door and then JEB. I met Dave at a division 7 Points race in the early 70's, when a lot of other VW drag racers were in attendance. His car sported early Deano wheels too. The car was typical of the day. Not a lot of pretty stuff went into the car back then. I think he even had an upside down canteen as his catch can for the oil breather lines from the motor. The car ran pretty well for what he had invested in it.

Rick M

Hi Peach,
the 86c in my engine feels like this:
not a lot of low end grunt, ok in midrange and comes on at 4000.
redline it at 7500.. CR is 9.4 or something..dont remember.
I really like it and will not change when i redo the motor.
you can drive calmly around town and have a beast when you want to :)
heads are wedgeports. maybe when i install new springs, redline is higher,
it seems to me that the motor doesnt want to stop at 7500, but my valves start to float at that time.

Hope it sums it up a bit :)

Run the cam that works with the heads you are using.  Or, run the heads that work with the cam you want to use.  My heads were built to work with an 86b, so I'm only wondering if wanting "more" would leave me with a poor combo.

Maize's orange car runs a 2276/Wedgeports/86b and it is fantastic.  Good for 12.90s @ 100+ mph with an inexperienced driver.  86c might be even better (with that combo), but I don't have any experience with that.

Cheers Guys for the words of advice

this is the parts list so far:- Steve Tim's Stage 2 heads, CB 5.5 H beams ,82x94mm, 86b, 1.4 Rockers, CB case, about 10.0-10.5 comp, 3/4 Berg sump, berg power pulley and 44 IDF's for now.

What do you think?

cheers

go with bigger cam and go with big venturies (maybe custom)

I was totally kidding, Rick, I'm guessing you didn't see my smiley at the end of the post.  No harm intended, just trying to post a bit of irony into the thread... back in the early to mid '90s it was pretty rare to see any of the modern engines in Hot VWs or VW Trends, a lot of 1776's in those days.

Oh, yes, I still remember that ride well... and the Mustang GT shrinking in the rear view mirror! ;D  Travis couldn't get a guy in a vintage Chevy pickup to play on the way home from that brewpub we went to that one night.  Good times!

 Good for 12.90s @ 100+ mph with an inexperienced driver. 
[/quote]
Hey I have been driving since I was 16! Seriously it is a healthy easy to drive combo. :)

Reading this thread, It seems the proven internet and off the shelf 2276 wins hands down in popularity, reliability and boredom; Through widespread availability it has become a slap together engine using mostly off shore parts, which to me doesn't seem all exciting.
The "Look" to the guys that started it was not just a Look, it was an idea, a state of tune, a surprise, an innovation, an engine living life on the border of destruction.
I suppose we and the Look are evolving and it should be interesting to see what the next 15 years bring us.

When I got into VWs in 1995 it seemed that the 2007cc and 2165cc motors were popular, less so than the 82mm stroke that is more common today. Perhaps an easier motor to build with a 78mm crank?


The Vanderbeke article is cool! How did he get a stock 1600 to run 12's!? :o

my 2276 kitchen build will be the first engine of this kind, size, quality and performance in my country..pretty innovative I think :-D

  I had the pleasure, was lucky to meet him back in the early 80's, while he was working as a mechanic at local To#¤ta Dealership, along side with my brother. ( small world ). There was a guy there who had raced at the early Bug-In's. and had a set of Old Racing Heads for sale?
 Well, well  low and behold. They were early Fumio Fukaya (FF29) heads, with Scat Trak manifolds. 22cc in the chambers." Compression-Up "   :) . I  bought them up along with other goodies. NOS German case is currently in my car as today.

Dave was retired from racing, did share some stories with me, my brother. his hobbies at the time was sketching art work on V8 Pro-stockers. at the time, very talented man.

RIP Dave.

As far as combo's : 2276cc was it..

I agree, with 10:1> you can go the bigger cam and still have torque to cruise around town, also try to match port your intake and exhaust, 44's will be ok with some fine tuning.

Dave was some guy huh, a true pioneer. Old school thinking outside the box, I wish we knew what some of the cams he was using.