The Cal-look Lounge

OK, here´s my another gearbox topic and I hope it won´t go wrong again. My question is. Does anybody know for sure what first gear is used in European AM code IRS gearboxes? They were equipped with 4.37 ring and pinion, but were made in the same time with high geared AS and AT code IRS gearboxes. Is there a chance that strong coarse teeth first gear is used so I can use this gearbox as a core?
Thank you.

Yes' The AM Trans has the 3.78 1st Gear :) Doe's the Gear Carier have a 11 mm bolt on the bottom? If it doe's its a 3.80 1st.

Mike

Hey Mike !

I did not tore down the gearbox at all, that´s why I asked. It will be given complete as a core.

Thank you for good news,

Jan

My experience is that most AM gearboxes in Europe have the 3.80 first gear. They were in the 1302 model equiped with the single port 1300 motors. Later models with the dubbelport 1300 had the 3.78 first gear. (very rare). If you want 3.78 youre best bet is the AS or AT with only one removable side.  Could be different in the States though. Most common practise is to take the 3.78 out of the AT box, put the whole package into an AM case and make it into a swingaxle gearbox.

I've seen an AM single side cover IRS gearbox before.  It will have the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft.
An AM gearbox is an AM gearbox, doesn't matter where the car was sold.

Exactly!
My AM single side cover (IRS) even had the 3,78 / 9 tooth. And I had 1 crate of beer more cause I betted with my gearboxbuilder ;)

hope it was Belgian beer, then you really won something  :P

I have 5-6 AM IRS gearboxes in my storage.

Some are dual cover, but most are single cover. Most of them has 3.78 first, but some has 3.80.

I don´t know about the single/dual cover - but I assume that after 1972 all VW gearboxes had 3.78 first gear?

anyway - you are all right, I have the boxes to prove it ;-)

Rasmus, Denmark

You are quite right Bruce, single sided AM gearboxes have 3.78 but what I was getting at was that the double sided AM boxes have the 3.80 thts why I always use those for conversion to sving.

Single side cover AM IRS = 3.78 first
Dual cover AM IRS = 3.80 first

Is this "translated" correct?  beacuse I have never compared the dual/single to which gearset was in it (when the snow is melted, and I once againg have access to my shed, then I will go check).

Totally Awsome Rad Tea! Haulin Ass! ( Sven-Olof )

The AM gearbox also came in swingaxle from volkswagen (only Europe I guess??!). My current gearbox is based on a AM swingaxle gearbox. I think it is from the "JEANS" type1.

I believe that swing 4.37 gearbox you talk abou actually had a code "AB", not "AM"

just wondering but what's an AM box like on the motorway?
a 4.37 r&p with a 0.93 4th is probably a bit noisy, or not?

This is not true.  At the very end of double side cover IRS, all the guts of the SSC were inside.  I've seen an AT double side cover IRS with a 3.88 and a 9 tooth first gear.

   No, it was AM.

   ok, Thanks for clearing that up.  But i wrote it as a question, not a statement. You misquoted me, but  i'll live ;)

Gladly no Belgian Zils! I only accept Bier brewed along  the "Reinheitsgebot"  ;D

   i think VW messed around with the parts in 71? 72? 73?  Because i have a single cover AT/3.88 with 10 tooth first!!  I had never thought that was a possible combination. . . . .
 

it works like any other box, but just add 500 rpms compared to a 4.12 (in my car anyway). i have a 4.37 now and it is OK, but weak. lots of people use them and broke them. this short box (standard beetles all had them) got my car to SCC, so it works i guess.


didn't know the Rein flows through Belgium  ??? you learn every day.  :P

Actually the late 4.37 trannies are far superior than the earlier 4.12 (as far as 1. & 2. gear goes), because they have the stronger 1. gear. You can´t decide which one is stongest just based on the ring/pinion alone. VW changed the gearsets along the years, around 1972 they changed to the 9 tooth stronger 1. gear. Somewhere along the way they also changed 3. & 4. gear to fine coarse teeth, and obviously they are not as strong as the later 3. & 4. gearsets. And then there are the shift forks, steel or brass - vw really messed around with them!

If you wan´t the strongest "factory" volkswagen tranny, then you have to use 2-3 gearboxes and build them into one.

thanks for clarifying that. i thought all 4.37's were the same.

Ok, so what should we be looking for? I remember Bruce saying about 002 bus gearsets? ???

how about those IRS box from Type 3s? DC or DD? 9 tooth or 10 tooth mainshafts?

friend found 1 back home for me, he knows i buy up gearbox cores, i am going to check 1 out in the next few days, i am hoping it is a DD  ;D ;D

  If you want to build a gearbox with a 9 tooth mainshaft, you can use Bus 002 coarse tooth gears since most Type 1s had fine tooth gears after 1970.  Mike said above, look for the 11mm hex bolt pointing straight down from the gear carrier.  That indicates it does NOT have the 9 tooth mainshaft.  Or look at the part number of the gear carrier.  If it is 311 xxx 173, it does have the 9 tooth first gear.

The late 4.37 Rasser is talking about will have a splined pinion shaft, and an 8 bolt ring gear.  The ones from the early 60s are junk.

I'll bet you like double Ds.
They won't be though.  A DD is pretty rare. (mit ZF)
Before about oct of 72, a DC has a 10 tooth mainshaft.  After Nov 72, it's a 9 tooth.
If the trans number after the DC has 5 or 6 digits with spaces between some, it will likely have a 9 tooth.  If the number has 7 digits, it is a 10 tooth.

Of course any gearbox you find could have been opened up sometime in the last 35 years and it's configuration changed.

thanks Bruce. just got home. and had a look at the gearboxes.

the DSC IRS gearbox removed the Australian Spec Type 3 surprisingly is an AH Box.  :(

AH 3488728.

The other DSC IRS, removed from an Australian Spec 1303 is an AT.

AT 15 0 13

If you look closer, it actually is AT 15 01 3, built on Jan 15, 1973.
It is actually kinda rare.  Built during the transition to SSCs for 1303s.  Convertible to swing axle.

thanks bruce, one more question without opening the box

what are the chances of the AH box having 002 internals, 9 tooth mainshaft, 4.125 r/p and 0.89 4th?

or i am just better off taking the AT box and dump my 0.89 4th i for from Rancho and source a 4.125 r/p?

he wants a premium price for both box, so i can only take 1 for now.

The AH definitely won't have a 9 tooth mainshaft.

ok thanks. AT it is then.

hey guys, found 2 more gearboxes AT and AM. both SSC.

i took the AT home; AT 02 12 4, i think it is the later style SSC. pics to follow.

the other is AM 5362701

Bruce, what is yr take on this AM box? no pic on the AM, forgot to take.

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/pupjoint2/DSCN8265.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/pupjoint2/DSCN8266.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/pupjoint1/pupjoint2/DSCN8267.jpg)

Afaik thats the strongest stock case. Look at the top castings! Nice find!

That case came out in the fall of 74.  Yours is Dec 2, 74.
Have a look at the bottom too!

Double ring side cover is stock on it.  Good for up to 250hp.

thanks!

 think u guys missed it in my last post.

the guy who sold me that box also has a SSC AM code box.

 code is AM 5362701

this SSC the top is not like in the pic, but the normal top....cant find a pic. think it is 69 to 72 earlier IRS....but SSC?

there u go, i copied this pic from Samba, tranny for dummies like me  ;D

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/238739.jpg)

the AM box is just like the box on the RIGHT.

just reread this thread from first post. should have done it earlier. so the AM SSC will have a 9 toothfirst gear, 4.37RP and 0.93 4th?

Ok, here's a question - I've been offered a DC box out of a type 3. I don't know if it's an early or a late one, but it's a single side cover case. It's cheap (less than a meal out with the better half!) - worth a punt if only for the 4.12 R&P? ??? ;)

SSC case is always worth something - I went through 3 in the Ghia...  :o

A DC in a SSC case will have a 9 tooth mainshaft and a 4.13 R&P.  You will also get a fairly rare .89 top gear for a 002 mainshaft.

Some times the SSC trans will still use the 10 tooth mainshaft,(well at least they do in Australia),
but most are the 9 tooth.
The third and fourth are usually fine tooth gears whether they are 113 or 002,
4th being a 0.883 ratio in the later DC trans.

There seems to be a pretty large overlap of the use of SSC cases and the change from 113 to 002 gears and mainshafts,
but with both AT and DC codes there are even DSC trans that had the 002 parts.
The ones I have seen thus equiped used O cut ring and pinions,
but the fnal drive ratios with those codes have always been as per all, of each,(if that makes sense).

This means for example, all the ATs had 3.875 R&P and all DC used 4.125,
and if fine tooth 3rd/4th, then 0.931 and 0.883 respectively.

Dave, did VW of Aus build gearboxes, or did they just install a German made imported one?

I have seen the exact same thing (Denmark). I have a AT and a DC with SSC and 10 tooth, and fine tooth 0,93 and 0,89 respectively. Actually the AT came from a bug imported from germany!

They did build boxes but only until about 1968 as far as I know.
Later cars were less Aussie content but gearboxes may still have been Aus, I really dont know.

I have an AH coded case here that is SSC too, but cant recall if it had the 002 mainshaft.
prob not, since I dont recall it having the sme style of date numbers as later trans'.

dint wana start a new topic, but anybody has any idea if this AH box come with the stronger first?

AH 4347117, DSC, he hasnt had the time to check if it has the bigger 20mm clutch shaft.

a freind found it back home, it was removed from a totaled 1302 which has a AD code 1600 motor with 10mm studs.

thanks

I doubt it will be 9 tooth mainshaft with that code from the factory.
Look under the intermediate housing for the bolt that locates the front pinion roller bearing.
This will indicate that it is likely the earlier type bearing, which usually also had the earlier 10 tooth main shaft.

got some pics, it does have the 3.80 first from the nut under the carrier as mentioned  :( >:( :(

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb469/pupjoint3/AHbox1.jpg)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb469/pupjoint3/AHbox2.jpg)

this is the engine it came with
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb469/pupjoint3/ADengine2.jpg)