The Cal-look Lounge

Cal-look/High Performance => Pure racing => Topic started by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 13:21:29 pm



Title: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 13:21:29 pm
hi guys,
i'm mocking up some parts to check the clearances

i cannot find the needed journal to bearing clear. for cb h beam rods
side clearance i'm aiming for is 0.018 inch
mains: 0.003
cam: 0.001

are these values correct?
does anybody know the stretch values of arp 2000 bolts? my rods came only with the torque specs: 15 lbs, 20 lbs, 25, final 29

thanks, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 15:26:05 pm
hi guys,
after a minute of searching by my girlfriend, she found my Tom Wilson book back again;
i' ve been searching this for a week :)

i found the clearance for stock engines: 0.0025; is this ok for high output engines?
 i'm gonna plastgage them now :)

see ya!


Title: Re: rod clearance
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 19:53:12 pm
hi guys,
some bad news i think..
i torqued the case to about 35Nm with the crank inside to check for drag or something..
then i turned the crank and felt a spot with some more resistance..
so i loosend the case a bit and crank is spinning fine...
i take the crank out of the case to check the bearings and what do i see?
the middle split bearing looks polished a bit on certain areas..the rest remained the same
i ll post a pic this evening
my case is shuffle pinned at that bearing, maybe something to think about? its an autolinea one
i m gonna try to check the crank for runout at work..what values should i get?

thanks, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 20:12:16 pm
heres a pic..
the marks are at 1 an 7 o clock, so opposed to each other

what do you think?

greets, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Roman on March 18, 2007, 21:03:53 pm
Did you use the O-rings? That is a NO-NO when you have shuffle pins, it can actually warp the case.


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2007, 21:21:12 pm
no,
i didnt use them..
case seems to be straight also;
i checked afterwards with a ruler

thanks, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: LGK on March 19, 2007, 02:06:57 am
no,
i didnt use them..
case seems to be straight also;
i checked afterwards with a ruler

thanks, Peter

Hi Peter,

Check/measure your crank on the journals,then bore-gauge the linebore of the case,you want something like 0.07mm clearence.
Be sure the bearings are okay too...

Btw; your cam is ready for pick up ,if you come by at the shop bring your stuff with you we'll check out .

See ya,

Steve


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on March 21, 2007, 13:21:20 pm
I ll do that Steve, thanks

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: stealth67vw on March 22, 2007, 03:04:53 am
Typical side clearance for a performance engine should be .010"(.25mm) or more. Most well known engine builders shoot for .016-.018"(.40-.45mm). I have read from .002-.003 is perfect journal clearance. Any less and you run the risk of spinning a rod bearings.


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on March 22, 2007, 12:43:10 pm
hi guys,
i boregauged the bearings when installed and torqued to 25 lbs
nr. 1 main is ok
nr.2 main: i measured at the marks and had zero clearance: 54.73 ; then i turned the boregauge 90 degrees and clearance was too much: 54.85 or something,
nr 3 main where i saw the small marks was also a bit tight maybe, i think it was 54.80 or 79

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on March 23, 2007, 12:11:15 pm
Hi guys,
i checked how much the dowel pegs extend out of the saddles and it was 0.25 mm less then in an as21 case i have lying around;
so i dont think the dowels are the cause..
I brought my parts to Steve, so I ll know soon what is wrong.
See ya at Volksworld!!!


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on April 23, 2007, 22:47:46 pm
Hi guys,
so my crank issue is solved, but now my cam is binding when i torque the case :'(
I can see some spots where the cam seems to have touched the bearings
i measured the cam journals with a caliper, they were about 25.01 mm; i had about 0.015 mm oilclearance with plastigauge,
how much endplay should i be aiming at, because i ll have to sand the thrustbearing a bit down:
i dropped an old cam in the case and this spinned allready much better, this cam gave a lot more end play, i can hear this one  rocking, but with the new cam,
there s almost no movement possible.
I m gonna check it for runout tomorrow, and if its straight,i think i ll polish the cam journals bit by bit
What do you think?

Cheers, Peter



Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on April 24, 2007, 11:57:26 am
Aggrivation for sure!!
my problem was a combination of things:
main journal od oversized; probably some pinching from the shuffle pins
joy joy joy!

cya!!


Title: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on April 28, 2007, 20:17:37 pm
hey guys;
so today i took some material from the cam: journals are about 24.99 mm now, so within vw tolerance
because the cam was still binding ; i started to sand the bearings at the spots where i could see the drag marks;
then i put the cam back in the case and closed the case; then turned the cam and checked again for drag..
i did this sequence more then ten times; but the cam wont free up.....
after lots of swearing; i tried something else: cam in case; case closed; the i take the cam ends with my index fingers and try to wiggle it up and down ( the case is lying with the cilinder bores facing down); and its loose as hell( in the radial sense) ; soo loose that it feels like i can move it up and down for 1 mm or something..
i dont know what to do anymore.... how is it possible that it turns so hard while i can move it up and down so much?
I m in the dark :'( :'(

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Roman on April 29, 2007, 21:42:13 pm
It sure sounds like a warped case as have problems with both the main bearing tunnel and the cam bearing tunnel. I had a brand new Mexican case that was just like yours a couple of years ago but I switched it. Life and european summers are too short to spend weeks on a bad case.


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on April 30, 2007, 11:47:17 am
hey guys,
the case is a new alu one, not filled or welded behind nr3..
an engine builder advised me to sand the cam down to 24.98 even 24.97
if it still binds ; i ll kick the f"cker out of my way
i have the green plastigauge, but dont need it yet because the cam even binds if i just put the other half on by hand
i know with todays parts everything needs additional work; but is this normal?
i dont want to put extra money in it if it wasnt needed with another case.. am i making sense or am i wrong?

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 01, 2007, 18:07:01 pm
hello;
today i made some progress;
i ll try to explain :)
at first, i put new bearings in the case (the two ones without thrust face)
then i layed the cam in ( i left the thrust bearing out)
installed a dial indicator on the journal without the bearing to check runout
well, i measured about 80m runout
then i installed the thrust brearing and took the middle one out;
measured runout at the middle journal and it was about 40 - 50m
in the end i measured runout of the journals themselves ; this was for all three about 5 m
i think i have found a problem :)

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 01, 2007, 22:01:41 pm
well on jim martins page i found max cam runout is 0.02 mm,
i measured 0.08 mm:)


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 01, 2007, 22:02:51 pm
so i think the cam is not straight ???
but i could be wrong ofcourse :)


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Roman on May 02, 2007, 11:26:51 am
It is easy to measure, just put it in one case half and use a dial indicator to measure the runout.


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 02, 2007, 17:40:38 pm
well  this is what i did  ;D
measured 0.08 runout

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 02, 2007, 21:39:32 pm
hey guys ,
i got a pic of how i measured things..
and another one  :D


Title: Re: rod clearance and other shit
Post by: Peter on May 02, 2007, 21:40:39 pm
 :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 17, 2007, 09:51:52 am
hey guys!!
some additional questions:
so engine will be: 2276, web 86 c, 44 * 37 wedgeports ;..
-> now i m thinking what kind of header do i need? 1 5/8 ; 1 3/4 ? i dunno what horsepower it will make but i m sure my face will look like this after  my testdrive: ;D
->and then which brand? i want a header that doesnt need cutting the valance and looks like the one Neal Anderson is using on his black 56.
do you guys know which oner i m babbling about? would be a great help ;D

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 18, 2007, 00:12:10 am
hey hey Jim!
my case and cam are back to the shop;
it should be okay if i get everything back...
the only thing that could also be wrong is the rod to journal clearance..
i didnt check this one out yet, but i hope i have some luck here :)
I also weighed the pistons and one is 6 g heavier than the other three...
is it safe to remove 6 g ( i heard 6 g is a lot) like in this pic?

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 22, 2007, 11:24:19 am
hello  :P


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Rune on May 22, 2007, 21:09:41 pm
I think Berg has the Phoenix headers back in stock..


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 23, 2007, 16:43:00 pm
Hi Dudes,
and what about the pistons? safe to remove 6 grams?

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Zach Gomulka on May 23, 2007, 16:54:22 pm
Its safe. Just dont do it all in one spot ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 23, 2007, 18:46:08 pm
Thanks man!

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 27, 2007, 13:49:08 pm
Now another one:
i plan to assemble my engine to zero deck and then use copperhead shims to set the deck height
i have 57 cc chambers, web 86c
with the 0.06 gaskets; i would have a cr of 9.4
with the 0.04 gaskets, it will be 9.9
I would like to keep the dh as little as possible to have a more efficient burn, and maybe cooler running engine
should i worrie to run 9.9 on pump gas? 9.9 is better for the cam i think..
i dont think i will have valve clearance issues this way either ? i ll see when i mock it up
what gaskets are the best for me?

thanks guys!

Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Frank LUX on May 27, 2007, 14:16:57 pm
9.9 is not alot of CR for such a Motor/Cam...

I would at least go 10.5CR...my 02Cents...

Frank


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Zach Gomulka on May 27, 2007, 17:35:46 pm
.040"... and hopefully your pistons wont kiss the heads ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Harry/FDK on May 27, 2007, 21:20:38 pm
0.06 You can always become a Bad Boy.
My Humble Opinion.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 28, 2007, 10:00:16 am
what do you mean? :)
i wanna build it right from the first time; or at least try to :)
i just dont want to ping the hell out of it;
i dont think that 0.02 will make a difference regarding valves kissing the heads, or does it?
i guess i can only see if its mocked up..
If i can safely run pump gas, i ll go for the 0.04 s i think

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2007, 21:03:16 pm
hi guys,
another issue:
i dropped the crank in the case along with the cam,
and at some points, the crank almost touches the camlobes
its a 82 dpr and cam is 86 c
should i grind the crank a bit? i think touching the lobes is a nono right?
here s a pic, kinda blurry though


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2007, 21:05:53 pm
a pic of the cam on the gear...
i think i mounted it good, but not 100 % sure...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2007, 11:37:38 am
hey guys
i think i need 1 mm clearance, right?
did somebody have to do this also? i dont know if its common practice;
if i have to clearance, i ll have to take some material from the cheek near the journal..i still have a few mms for grinding there...
what do you think?

peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2007, 12:53:02 pm
some extra pics of how i want to do it...
i want to sand down the yellow part on the cam first, then see what clearance i get and then if i need more, sand a bit of the crank with a dremel..
i have to chamfer the lobes a bit anyway, 0.5 mm wont do any harm right? i think this way, i allready can achieve the clearance...
can you tell me also if the gear is mounted correctly on the cam? i used the gold colored washers for a straight up timing..sounds ok?

Another BIG thank you!!!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2007, 19:13:27 pm
hey guys, an update:
i sanded the cam and crank down like the picture above, and i have 1 mm clearance now;
i made sure that nothing became hot..
i only needed to do this on on place, so the work was no biggie..
1 mm should be enough right?

bye!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: lowfastbus on July 25, 2007, 21:04:08 pm
I don't know how much you took off, but don't you think you ruined your balance with that...

Just thinking?
Jelle


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 25, 2007, 22:18:24 pm
Hi Jelle!
i dont worry to much about that,
i ll have to balance everything anyway...
what do you guys think about the 1 mm?

Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 23, 2007, 20:04:22 pm
hey guys,
i removed 5 g from this piston;
please look at the pic tell me that i didnt screw up :)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: SMO on August 28, 2007, 22:31:59 pm
Hello ruff !

Interesting reading here :)
Some of my friends needed to machine work the cam because small clearance between crank/rod and cam.
Install the rods too, you can have some problems there too...
What kind of crank and rods do you use ?

Cam gear installation looks good if you have the mark on cam gear in line with the straight "cut" on the cam.

Im building a 2332cc engine with CB auto linea case 9,5mm deck height. CB super race crank 84mm, scat 5,7" rods
and i have much space in my case, dont need to sand at all.
But i hade some problems with my rod journals, varying thickness of the journals "clevite", so i need to buy 2 kit to match
8 journal halfs, now i have 0,05-0,06mm clearance on the rod journals, if i had used the fist set i should have a clearence at 0,12mm at one rod... not good.
The thickness of the journals varying between 1,540mm - 1,575. The thickness All my journals are now between 1,560mm and 1,575mm

Regards
Magnus SWE


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 29, 2007, 18:37:23 pm
hey dude.
my crank is a dpr and cb 5.5 h beams..
I will run the piston...should be ok
still alot of work to be done:
balance everything,
tap and plug the galleys,
check oil clearance cam, rods,
check rodbolts for stretch,
measure deck height correctly :),
grind cam bolts,

i m getting depressed when i think about it   :D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on January 13, 2008, 17:15:23 pm
my friends,
recieved my parts from the balancer...
so some progrees has been made..
everything balanced, case plugged, oil clearance brought to 0.07 for main and rod journals, cyls honed, new arp bolts
I m finally getting somewhere :)
too bad my house requires a lot of my spare time


Title: Re: 2276
Post by: Peter on February 01, 2008, 20:31:59 pm
not IDAs , but i think they are cool anyway

with these stacks  :P


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: SMO on February 14, 2008, 23:31:02 pm
Hi !
Almost done with your engine?
Add some pics if you have.

My engine is almost done now, some work left with the fan house..
have some pics here ...
http://ausbrechervwmange.blogspot.com/

// Magnus SWE




Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on February 15, 2008, 12:13:37 pm
Hello Magnus!
Engine is not ready at all :)
still have to buy some stuff...
oil cooler, throttle bodies etc ...
and i need to find a socket for my gland nut to get my flywheel off from balancing..
they seem hard to find... i think its 48.1 mm or something US size, i think 1 7/8 or 1 15/16
ordered a month ago but still waiting
but my house is almost finished ..time to work on the mill again :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on February 15, 2008, 12:54:04 pm
good looking engine dude! :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: lowfastbus on February 15, 2008, 19:57:00 pm
Hey Peter,

Is this a special gland-nut?? If not I have a socket that fits onto a stock one....
You can come and pick it up if you want.
Jelle


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on February 15, 2008, 20:34:35 pm
Hi Jelle,
just looked in the bugpack catalog and its a 1 7/8 socket i need...

thanks !!!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on March 26, 2008, 12:13:32 pm
Hello guys,
when i was removing weight from one piston, i did not check if i removed the weight equally under the pin bosses,
so i dont know if the piston balanced well on itself... ::) ::) dumb dumb i know :)

do you guys know a way how to measure the balance?

i removed about the same on each side, but i dont know for sure...

maybe problem in high revs?



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Fastbrit on March 26, 2008, 20:10:19 pm
It's not reciprocating weight, so don't worry as long as the weight matches the other pistons. And, of course, as long as you haven't removed too much weight form just one side! :D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: airstuff on March 26, 2008, 21:35:44 pm
Hello guys,
when i was removing weight from one piston, i did not check if i removed the weight equally under the pin bosses,
so i dont know if the piston balanced well on itself... ::) ::) dumb dumb i know :)

do you guys know a way how to measure the balance?

i removed about the same on each side, but i dont know for sure...

maybe problem in high revs?



what tool did u use to remove weight from pistons,I used to drill it out :-X


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on March 27, 2008, 12:14:35 pm
hello,
i did it with a dremel :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: airstuff on April 30, 2008, 11:19:47 am
Hey Ruff,

Any progress here?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on April 30, 2008, 16:06:00 pm
Hey dude,
thanks for asking!
still some work needs to be done:
piston grinding to get even DH
and then setting the rocker geometry,
making a new muffler,
and then a lot of those small jobs like modifying the tins and so on..
still waiting for the stacks for my jenveys

cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 02, 2008, 12:28:12 pm
Hey guys!
another q i have about pulleys:
do they have to have a tight fit on the crank?
i know with my equaliser i can slide it over the crank with ease...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Jim Ratto on May 02, 2008, 20:59:26 pm
Hey guys!
another q i have about pulleys:
do they have to have a tight fit on the crank?
i know with my equaliser i can slide it over the crank with ease...

yes it should be a tight fit. If it "slides on" you will have problems. It will wallow pulley or crank or both out once you run the engine. Not a good idea to run it like that. Typically, Berg pulleys are a very tight fit (have to heat to get it on the nose... like timing gear), so I would suspect it is your crankshaft. Some firms can "knurl" the nose of crank for a tigheter fit. Have you miked it?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 02, 2008, 21:13:24 pm
Damn,
i think its the pulley then,
because i still have an original one and this takes more effort to get on...
think i m gonna get me a santana style then
thanks for the help!! getting a little bit closer :)




Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 28, 2008, 12:49:01 pm
hello guys,
i found out with my DH that i will get a compression of 9.3 to 1
i know its on the low side for my 86 c, but do you think the motor will run that bad?

got my stacks as well :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on May 28, 2008, 15:11:31 pm
Hey guys!
another q i have about pulleys:
do they have to have a tight fit on the crank?
i know with my equaliser i can slide it over the crank with ease...

Is it a real berg pulley? or one of the black copies,I know that some of the black copies are not machined to a tight enough tolerance and are loose on the crank ::)

cheers richie,uk


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 28, 2008, 17:17:28 pm
no its one of the copies...
i hope i have more luck with a scat :)
no money for berg :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 05, 2008, 22:34:31 pm
worked some more on the engine today..
painted my header too..still a few coats to come


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 10, 2008, 20:45:14 pm
was mocking my muffler up today...
i m gonna aim it to the left to be a little different  :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 10, 2008, 20:45:57 pm
and one more...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: nicolas on June 11, 2008, 14:13:25 pm
mmmm "een linksdrager".


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2008, 16:30:59 pm
haha nicolas, you crack me up :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: nicolas on June 11, 2008, 17:14:59 pm
 ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: donder on June 13, 2008, 18:35:52 pm
peter, did you allready weld the nut for the O2sensor on the collector ?
ya going to bug in ?

see ya


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2008, 22:36:17 pm
hey Philip,
i sure did..
and i sure will :):)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 14, 2008, 23:53:28 pm
did a ittle work on the fan shroud today...
cut off the snorkels and cut patches to weld in...
i am keeping the internal vanes as they were to keep it as original as possible
i read on the samba that blocking the snorkels with freeze plugs with a 1.5" hole in them mimics the original backpressure in the shroud
i removed the snorkels , so i will weld in the patches and make hole in them..
hope it will work ok  ??? ::)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: SlingShot on June 15, 2008, 03:08:43 am
i m gonna aim it to the left to be a little different  :)

If you leave the muffler purple and your header is orange, I don't think it matters what direction you point the muffler, you will be different. ;)
BTW Glass packs kick ass, good choice ;D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 15, 2008, 07:21:48 am
hehe, i m gonna paint it all orange ;D
if it doesnt work out, i will change it to white...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 16, 2008, 19:58:35 pm
hey guys,
how do you intall your lash caps?
i boiled them in water :) but they were still a bit tight on the stem during installation..
not all caps are fully seated .. i m gonna try to use the valve spring compresser to push them on...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on July 16, 2008, 20:08:29 pm
hey guys,
how do you intall your lash caps?
i boiled them in water :) but they were still a bit tight on the stem during installation..
not all caps are fully seated .. i m gonna try to use the valve spring compresser to push them on...


Usually they are loose and fall off easily :o  Which brand do you have?

cheers richie


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 16, 2008, 21:35:47 pm
hello,
they are cb ones that came with the rockers..
i heard that berg ones tend to be tight as well...
but it seems that my spring compresser did the trick
the caps are sitting equally high now :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Udo on July 16, 2008, 22:30:21 pm
hey guys,
how do you intall your lash caps?
i boiled them in water :) but they were still a bit tight on the stem during installation..
not all caps are fully seated .. i m gonna try to use the valve spring compresser to push them on...


Usually they are loose and fall off easily :o  Which brand do you have?

cheers richie

This happens to the Scat caps . I wish the Bergs would be avaliable again .

Looks like the CB fit correct ?

Udo


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on July 16, 2008, 22:32:12 pm
hey guys,
how do you intall your lash caps?
i boiled them in water :) but they were still a bit tight on the stem during installation..
not all caps are fully seated .. i m gonna try to use the valve spring compresser to push them on...


Usually they are loose and fall off easily :o  Which brand do you have?

cheers richie

This happens to the Scat caps . I wish the Bergs would be avaliable again .

Looks like the CB fit correct ?

Udo


Scat,CB,Bugpack, all the same

cheer srichie


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Jim Ratto on July 17, 2008, 16:00:54 pm
I used CB's last time around and they fit tight like Bergs. Not loosey-goosey like Scat.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: stealth67vw on July 18, 2008, 05:55:11 am
I've got a set of CBs right now and they fit snug, butt not a press fit like the Berg's. I can pull them off with a pair of pliers. They don't require the force of two mating elephants.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2008, 13:29:45 pm
hey guys,
i checked the valvetrain geometry today,
i think all looks good ..
tell me if somethinglook s wrong please :)
i ll have my pushrods cut next week



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2008, 13:36:50 pm
Oh yeah, i forgot to say:
pics were take at half lift, so 7 mm ; adjusters line up with the pushrods , and the rocker touches the lash cap just in the middle.
wow the first thing that bolts on without headaches :)

about the placement of the rockers now... i know they have to be set up with an offset to make the valves spinning, but how much?
heres a pic of how they are set up now:

anyway thanks for all the help i allready got, without you, i could not have done it, and lets keep our fingers crossed that it stays together :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on July 21, 2008, 20:38:59 pm
Looks good to me :)

cheers richie


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2008, 21:01:26 pm
Richie, the offset you mean? :) or the rest :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on July 21, 2008, 21:11:08 pm
all,
assuming the valve locks[keepers] arent touching each other completely?then the valve will not spin anyway so you are worrying about nothing :)
 This is the way i understand it,someone correct me if I am wrong?


but I try to get the rocker in the middle of the lash cap for maximum contact and dont worry about anything else

cheers richie


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 21, 2008, 21:28:42 pm
Thanks again for the help,
now that you mention that, it makes sence that the valves can not spin
i thought i learned that at school a long time ago.. i guess not then :)
and i checked that the keepers dont touch each other, so thats OK as well
i ll reshim the rockers now, in order to get a full contact ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 22, 2008, 18:18:09 pm
hey guys ,
shimmed the rockers today,
and they are now centered on the lash cap; but the inlet rockers are not shimmed at both sides;
only the side of the rocker stand is shimmed and the side of the shaft ( where the shaft becomes thicker in the middle) the rocker just rides against it...
dunno if it is a problem or not?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2008, 19:22:20 pm
guys,
a question for the near future...
i want to break in my engine without cooling tins to easily check for oils leaks and so on..
i want to do some test runs on the street, so how long do you think i can drive without cooling ? :)
i have an oil temp gauge , but i m worrying about the heads.
thanks!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Diederick/DVK on July 24, 2008, 19:27:00 pm
well that's how gassers run, right?
so, i'd guess it's limited to a minute or 2-3?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: richie on July 24, 2008, 21:14:35 pm
guys,
a question for the near future...
i want to break in my engine without cooling tins to easily check for oils leaks and so on..
i want to do some test runs on the street, so how long do you think i can drive without cooling ? :)
i have an oil temp gauge , but i m worrying about the heads.
thanks!


Without any tin?  I would do 5 mins,then let it cool off,then 5 more cool off,till the cam is bedded in,if you wanted to drive it without any tinwork,proberly 7/8 mins without much load on it

But you realise you have to remove the heads to put the under cylinder tins back in unless you have 2 piece push rod tubes?

cheers richie


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on July 28, 2008, 22:21:48 pm
hey guys,
thanks to the help of donder;
i torqued the gland nut to 400 pounds and measured 0.12 mm endplay :) one thing less to do :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: DWL_Puavo on August 06, 2008, 13:40:09 pm
Webcam recommends that the cam should be broke in the "quite-normal" 20mins for first time and for a bit over 2000rpm. I think that can't be done without cooling available. It isn't that a big job to install cooling tins and fan housing, and we've found that it's easiest to do the first break-in in an assembly bench (picture of our bench, had to overdo it as usual (http://www.dwl.fi/break_in.jpg)) - then the oil leaks can be easily contained (we had warped oil filter mounting before so we had to take small precautions as shows in picture above).

On that engine we have 2275cc, webcam 86c with bugpack 1.25 rollers, CR 9.9 (0 deck and 1.66mm copper shims), msd 6al, 45 dells and hand-ported 044:s with 44 / 37.5 valves (54cc). It starts to pull from 1300rpm and kicks nicely at 4000rpm. It has been driven pedal floored on 6h endurances and works out wonderfully!

And onto the another questions on this thread as our engine is quite similar:
- GB equalizer was really a tight fit onto crankshaft and to the case
- CB 82mm crankshaft cleared the camshaft nicely without any work (with cb 5.5" race rods)
- berg lash caps were really tight
- we broke-in the cam with loose springs only, and after first break-in, we installed berg doubles and checked the head bolt torques

If sometime our engine is to be used in shorter races than endurance, I'll install 1.22mm coppers (CR -> 10.5) and 1.5:1 rockers, should be good for few ponies more!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 06, 2008, 22:55:32 pm
thanks dude!
i got my pushrods cut today...
it might be finished earlier than i thought :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: airstuff on August 08, 2008, 19:16:17 pm
Great to hear you are  finalizing your motor build.Put some more pics if you can.

Cheers,

Zvonimir


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 12, 2008, 19:53:09 pm
i am tearing it down for the final time and saw that the cam bearings are polished ,
could this be due to the mockup: setting geometry ...?
i did it with the duals installed, so maybe its from the springs pushing the lifters pushing the cam and no oil pressure? :)
should i worry or not? :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Jim Ratto on August 14, 2008, 18:00:12 pm
i am tearing it down for the final time and saw that the cam bearings are polished ,
could this be due to the mockup: setting geometry ...?
i did it with the duals installed, so maybe its from the springs pushing the lifters pushing the cam and no oil pressure? :)
should i worry or not? :)


Hi ruff
That's from running the cam dry on the bearings, against valve spring pressure.
I have a "spare" set of old cam bearings I use for "mockup" while I check lift and geometry and all that.
You can take 0000 steel wool and polish the bearings and that should make them fine.
Or buy some new ones and you'll have a spare set for mocking up next time.
I use steel wool 0000 to polish thrust surfaces of cam bearings after getting end clearance of .002" set and grooving for extra oiling.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 14, 2008, 22:23:36 pm
thanks for the answer(s) jim :)i hope  i can put it together this weekend
figers crossed :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Jim Ratto on August 14, 2008, 22:29:33 pm
thanks for the answer(s) jim :)i hope  i can put it together this weekend
figers crossed :)

good luck and let us know if you need any help :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 15, 2008, 14:53:27 pm
hey guys , now everything is taken apart,
would it be good if i cut the groove in my udos a la berg lifters?

what oil piston goes where? i ve got a plain one and the one with the groove..

Thank you! :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2008, 11:14:34 am
some pics...
putting in the lifters..
and aligning the no2 main bearing


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2008, 11:17:11 am
and some other:
plastiguaged the cam again to double check: 0.001-0.002" clearance
the second pic is where i m at now


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: ian c on August 17, 2008, 11:53:32 am
hey ruff !!
hows it goin .

i see you started mock-up and clearance checking on march 18th .......

tommorow , its august 18th !!   :o



i hope the saying is true that what you get out of it is relative to how much you put into it !! (should be good for 200k miles  :D )

i bet you cant wait to fire it up  ;D

(at this point i await sheep posting to have a dig at jim  ;D )



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2008, 17:14:25 pm
dude what can i say, i am slow :d
waiting for parts and jobs to be finished took a lot of time too :)
and i want to do most of it myself
but i m gettin there ...one day
i m almost ready to join the casehalves


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: ian c on August 17, 2008, 17:19:55 pm
lol

precision engineering takes time !!

though its better to say this to the boss when you DONT have the smell of coffee and cigerettes coming from your mouth :D

i'm sure it'll be worth the wait buddy .


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 18, 2008, 14:42:31 pm
case is closed  ;D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 18, 2008, 14:43:32 pm
and yeah i know..
it looks messy :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 25, 2008, 18:16:01 pm
some progress has been made...

before:


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 25, 2008, 18:16:37 pm
and after...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 25, 2008, 19:50:23 pm
couldnt resist to do some more useless work :)



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: lowfastbus on August 25, 2008, 19:54:23 pm
looking good!!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 25, 2008, 21:09:50 pm
thanks dude :)
we re gonna race soon :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: ian c on August 26, 2008, 07:24:49 am
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x216/iancross182/ChampagnePOP.jpg)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: 67worshipper on August 26, 2008, 21:01:42 pm
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x216/iancross182/ChampagnePOP.jpg)
looks like you,ve just shot ur load ian :D :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: ian c on August 26, 2008, 21:51:25 pm
lmao :D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 27, 2008, 11:20:42 am
watch out for your keyboard! ;D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: wolfswest on August 27, 2008, 12:14:24 pm
looking good Peter,

Will your car be @ DDD ?

Dem


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 27, 2008, 21:01:12 pm
I hope so!
i want to have it on the dyno as well :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: airstuff on August 27, 2008, 21:09:49 pm
hello Ruff,

how far are you from firing the engine

Cheers!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on August 28, 2008, 11:24:26 am
hey cal look,
hopefully in a week or two:
still gotta paint and modify the tinware,
some EFI mods,
need some more parts for the gearbox,
and i still have to measure piston to valve clearance.. today i ll get some play doh :)
the engine is allready out again, i hope i can do this last check tonight


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 15, 2008, 12:19:38 pm
hey guys,
i want to have a bigger fuel tube in the tank so i dont have a problem with fuel suppy;
what do you use for your performance engines? the stock is 6 mm and i think it will be too smal....
i thought about tapping the existing bung and screw on a fitting, but i think the tube must be bent in order not to touch the chassis.....
almost ready to start :) :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 16, 2008, 22:15:36 pm
got it started today :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Jim Ratto on September 16, 2008, 22:31:04 pm
got it started today :)



well?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 17, 2008, 07:14:06 am
its loud....
ask donder :)
the neighbours allready complained :):)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: airstuff on September 18, 2008, 08:47:38 am
some pics,a video??? :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 18, 2008, 10:29:48 am
here ya go :).



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 18, 2008, 10:31:29 am
tuning and testdrive today...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Diederick/DVK on September 18, 2008, 10:32:50 am
and a videoshoot i hope  ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: sam P on September 18, 2008, 18:47:54 pm
It's about time!  ;D Very nice!
Does that mean you'll be breaking it in with a nice long drive to Bitburg this weekend?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 19, 2008, 09:45:04 am
some bad news...
couldnt get it running ok yesterday, so i ll try today again....
still popping out of the exhaust and intakes...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: stealth67vw on September 20, 2008, 02:26:26 am
some bad news...
couldnt get it running ok yesterday, so i ll try today again....
still popping out of the exhaust and intakes...
From my past experience and Ratto can vouch for this, you may have the distributor drive installed 180 degrees out of index.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 21, 2008, 21:48:29 pm
i misplaced the plug wires on my ignition  :-[
then it ran good, allthough i can only open the throttle 40%, looks like i need to change something at the pedal..
but in the way to bitburg i got an oil leak from ( i think ) the pulley,
i have a big breather box ( no filters there yet ) and i think its coming from there as well,
the whole engine bay is misted  :'(
but oil pressure was good an oil got to about 110 C
do you guys know what could pressurize the case so much?
i thought a little drip is normal because its running in, but this is a bit much :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Diederick/DVK on September 21, 2008, 21:56:25 pm
ouch, i had big oil troubles with my kadron engine last year. it sucks! hope you find the source soon.
but isn't the oil temperature a bit high?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 22, 2008, 16:24:14 pm
I think oil temp is still acceptable, because its running in...
maybe today i ll start it up again and see if i feel pressure at the breather box
i surely hope it not because of the scat pulley.... :'(


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 28, 2008, 22:48:01 pm
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=kzPNg9HLf6E&feature=user


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Andy on September 29, 2008, 10:15:57 am
I think oil temp is still acceptable, because its running in...
maybe today i ll start it up again and see if i feel pressure at the breather box
i surely hope it not because of the scat pulley.... :'(


When a friend of mine put a Scat aluminium pulley on his engine, it immediately developed an oil leak from behind the pulley. After removing the pulley you could see that the oil return groove wasn't machined any where near to how the deep the stock pulley is.

He took it to a machine shop who agreed to machine it 'off the books'. When he picked it up they had done the work well but said it had been a lot harder than they anticipated as the oil groove has three start points so it is really three different grooves and it took a lot longer than the lunch time they had hoped to get it done in.

Getting it machined did fix the oil leak for him.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on September 29, 2008, 11:58:55 am
i am gonna attack it "cave man style" with a dremel and try to make the grooves deeper....
i know, its not optimal but what the heck, i cant use it like this anyway probably


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 10, 2008, 17:43:36 pm
Hey guys,
the leak was coming from a few places:
where the oil pressure switch is, from the dipstick, from behind the pulley, and out of the breather box;
so i finally bought some filters for the breather box, plugged the dipstick with som fuel line, and got rid of the t piece that kept coming loose and it almost doenst leak anymore :) me happy :)
still a bit behind the pulley, but maybe thats from overfilling
still tuning now, had to change to an alternator, because the poor gen couldnt supply enough current so my battery went flat from driving :)
damn electronics.. i wouldnt have that problem with carbs :)
but it starts running better and better ;D


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: 67worshipper on October 10, 2008, 17:54:19 pm
if your running a deepsump ruff dont overfill the engine.it will leak from everywhere.only fill to the lower dipstick line or the minimum level on the dipstick.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 10, 2008, 17:59:37 pm
thanks man,
i ll do that when changing the oil,
i have to do it anyway one of these days, i allready drove about 400kms


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: John Rayburn on October 11, 2008, 03:47:46 am
Make sure you're not running too lean, 110 C. is excessive.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Rennsurfer on October 11, 2008, 06:29:42 am
Subject: 2276 questions

Darn, I thought this was a thread about two thousand two hundred and seventy six queries. Apparently, such is not the case. I have no business here... I believe in chrome plated stock engines, rat rods, and hoodrides. I'm gonna go deflate my airbags and scrape some valance(s).

Ruff, any luck getting your engine dialed in?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: 67worshipper on October 11, 2008, 08:12:09 am
trust you fred ::)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 11, 2008, 11:59:44 am
hehe fred, i got a chrome piece on my engine, its acts well as a heat deflector :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: wolfswest on October 12, 2008, 18:05:16 pm
if your running a deepsump ruff dont overfill the engine.it will leak from everywhere.only fill to the lower dipstick line or the minimum level on the dipstick.


same here, what is the explination for this fact?  Probably a dumbass question but I haven't got a clue...
sorry for hijacking your topic Peter.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: 67worshipper on October 12, 2008, 21:45:34 pm
with a deep sump and extra filtering and cooling the system has more than doubled its capacity.when revving the motor high it seems to overflow from all areas due to high pressure.by dropping the oil level down to the minimum level the system copes better but there is more than enough oil getting to the case so its not starved of oil like you would think.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: wolfswest on October 14, 2008, 08:25:12 am
okay, thx, that makes sense.


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 14, 2008, 11:16:29 am
had a fire yesterday... :'(
a fuel line rubbed somewhere and was cut... add to that a backfire out of the bodies and what you get is a ball of fire
luckily my extinguisher was close by, so i could save my car...
not much has been burnt though
will check it out this evening


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Wnderwolff on October 14, 2008, 17:29:26 pm
Big Ouch  >:(

I hope you don't have to much damage on the Engine !!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: lowfastbus on October 14, 2008, 19:35:03 pm
 >:( Hope everything works out, call me if you need something

Jelle


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 15, 2008, 11:32:36 am
thanks guys,
i cleaned up the powder and almost nothing fell into the intakes, so that a good point,
i will go over the  wires to see nothing has burnt or melted and start that bith again


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 15, 2008, 11:33:13 am
oh yeah, and i ll replace the fuel line as well :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Turtle001 on October 16, 2008, 07:54:20 am
good luck bro!


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on October 27, 2008, 11:27:45 am
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=V2NJwXftHy8



Title: time to open up
Post by: Peter on May 18, 2009, 15:40:45 pm
hello guys,
while waiting for the gearbox to arrive,
i m freshening up the engine as well...
and because i have too much time now,
i m thinking of opening up the engine to see how everything looks inside...
it started bad allready :)
the scat pulley i used binded in the case :(
luckily the engine didnt seize...
i think there was binding just a little, because during mockup, i couldnt feel any noticable drag
and the case is just scratched a bit...
so all in all i think its still ok; i sanded the pulley surface a bit down and i will deepen the oil return grooves too...
lets hope i dont get a major oil leak :)

Cheers, Peter


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Roman on May 18, 2009, 16:34:04 pm
It is not uncommon that an aluminum pulley binds in an alu case. It has happened to me as well. I always use a steel center pulley now and have no problems. If it leaks, just cut it for a Berg type oil seal - you can do it without engine disassembling.



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Diederick/DVK on May 18, 2009, 23:20:51 pm
just wondering what exactly you mean about cutting the pulley roman.
you mean making it a bolt-on sand seal pulley? what has to be done in case a pulley leaks?


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 19, 2009, 08:53:33 am
i guess he means cut the pulley for a sand seal?
another thing: one of the lash caps has cracked :(
i m praying now for no more surprises :)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: GreenTom on May 21, 2009, 11:01:06 am
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=V2NJwXftHy8



you need Qaife ;)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on May 21, 2009, 11:02:19 am
no i need to learn how to drive :d:d:d


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Doktor on May 24, 2009, 22:50:32 pm


you need Qaife ;)
[/quote]

That's just what I wanted to say... 8)


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: volkskris on June 07, 2009, 14:31:08 pm
hy peter, i'm that 15-year old guy that lives nearby. has the gearbox arrived already?
you got a very cool muffler too, i could clearly hear it when you where driving trough my street, sounds really like a drag engine ;D
kristof


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 07, 2009, 22:23:38 pm
Hello Kris,
today was the first test drive after a few months,
was it today that you heard me? :)
but i had a few troubles though....
anybody can tell me what could m


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 07, 2009, 22:30:30 pm
damn, i pressed"post" too early again :)
soo, does anyone know what could make a clunking sound? :)
its not the engine, i stopped the call and revved and idled, no clunking...
but i saw when i was home again, the wheels were not firmly tightened, not the wheel bolts,
it seem the drums AND wheels, so i thought probably the axle nut isnt fastened enough yet,
but i cant move it any further even with a BIg bar attached to the socket...
anyone had this problem as well?
seems i cant get the nut tightened more, but the drum still fits sloppy...


Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2009, 11:34:52 am
seems like i have the same problem as sling?

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5706.0.html

cheers guys



Title: Re: 2276 questions
Post by: volkskris on June 17, 2009, 12:46:36 pm
I heard you driving saturday, sunday, monday and yesterday! ;D The sound really gives me motivation to study for the exams  ;)
the original wheels also look cool on your car, but they look a bit skinny front and back :P
Kristof