The Cal-look Lounge

about this question maybe everyone is loughing about .I know the angle flow are pure dragracing heads ,but heres my question ,can this heads used for a street car ,the maintance of these question is the cooling of these heads ,about my experiences it is impossible ,does someone have any experience about more of the thermal lifts and cooling possibilities about these heads . ::) ::) ::) ::)

Not impossible at all- I've been running a set of A/F heads on my 2789 (86 x 101.6) in different incarnations over the last 3 years or so.  All the normal tin, 36hp style chinese shroud without oil cooler with a doghouse fan, and a mesa type oil cooler/fan under the car, and it seems to be fine.  91 octane California gas and 217hp/215tq to the rear wheels through the muffler.

[attachment=1]don't know what ROCK YOU BEEN LIVING UNDER but there are probably more STREET miles logged on the heads you call pure drag than you can imagine. you just haven't taken notice. and BTW that's with out any at all OVER HEATING issues. you would have to be a complete NUM SCULL to do this.sorry for the sarcasm but were ever your getting your FALSE FEED BACK on OUR AMERICAN MADE HEADS  THERE Wrong!!!!.   ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'( ;)   UD  .

Ok that is an answer,all people here in germany told me this heads were only for dragrace and overheat on the street because of the thin cooling house they have 4 fins a strreet head woul be 8 fins that is the rock i was living under your answer shows me the people her hsve no idea about. :-X
Thank you very much for this information of your experience you have with these heads.I also could not  believe that ,so i only want to have some ideas further. :P :P :P :P :P :P

Hi!

I guess the definition of "street" is different. ;D Here in germany most people think of long high speed autobahn runs when they are talking about street driving. I don´t know the difference between com eliminators and A/F heads regarding the cooling fins, but you can in fact drive comp ellis "on the street" but I would be careful if I wanted to drive on the autobahn for long distances at high speed.
Bye,

Tobi

That is the difference like tobi sayed

Most people only want to cruise on the street . For me a street engine is for driving on the autobahn fast for a longer time, like 5000 rpm's or more
May be you can do this with the heads , we had some that raced CE heads on the circuit track...

Udo

yes almost you can drive fast in germany everywhere ,the difference you describe is right ,i am a person that never would the engine turn to the max for a long time.My engine can run over 7000rpm ,the real power of the engine displays about over 4500 rpm My cruising rpm is mostly by 3500 -4000 at longer times never been over there for a long time ,the fear that the engine blows is to big and all the money i´ve spend to it.

UD i LOVE your muffler set up.

Hi.dident realize you were such a newbi or I woundnt have been so negatory towards you.I just figured everybody knows about these heads since they have only been on the maket for the past 29 yrs.my bad I apoligize. Oh and one major point if you ever visit here in the states try some of our local hiways out of town going to some of our MANY STATES stretching for THOUSANDS!! OF MILES and desert TEMPS reaching 120 deg. There a kick in the ASS. A deffenet true test for a true.REAL STREET INDERANCE ACVW STREET MACHINE . This is OUR autobaun.posted speed limet signs WHAT ARE THOSE.  Have a good one.  UD,

UD,
Just can't put into proper words how ultimately COOL that car was (is?) ... needs to be back on the streets sweeping up all the none-believers!
So very much wish I could've seen it run in person.
Makes me want to get my old '67 project RUNNING! Just need to "wash it" with a brillo pad. But! It'll have to be 4 INCH EQUIPPED!!! Daily driver style ...

... how's that other case coming along??? LOL! ... no pressure! LOL (again)!

Seriously folks, this man defined Street Sleeper/Sweeper; do what he does and you could be COOL too.

Let's see some pics of the Remingtons BOILING!

If you have doubts of the cooling efficiency of the heads, I have heard great benefits of combustion chamber and piston thermal barrier coatings. Sorry I can't quite yet give personal experience on them ...

P.S. My apologies for the post hi-jack!

Hi tom. talk to ya soon . UD . 

ok.....this heads were very amazing what you can do with them ;D ;D ;D.

Can you tell us some features of your engine ,bore,stroke ,cylinders,case etc?

Most likely best you look here first ... then ask more questions! ;)


http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5367.0.html

UD ... Thanks! Absolutely Awesome ... love that photo!

4inbore.com

Damn -- for a second there I thought I was gonna have to throw all this away LOL

[attachment=1]

Thatś an awsome sleeper

yes looks awsome :o :o :o :o :o :o

looking good there Harold. 8)  .UD.

The Pictures you see are from the Real Street Competition in Las Vegas. Buy the way all the competitors drove there Cars to Las Vegas from the O.C. California. Jeff won the Prize because he finished
the 50 Mile drive in 100 deg. weather and layed down the fastest time. Vegas is not close to Orange County I think about 300 Miles and it got Hot!!

His Car had a Type 1 Gear box. Nice Burn-Out and then Drove Home.

Mike Herbert 

That was such a great competition Mike... very cool to see the cars drive 5 hrs and then race.

Hey mike. Let's plan on doing that again some time in the near future before we all kick it.all I need to do is get finished with some projects then I can go play again.would need to pull the TUMMBLE WEEDS off my car build a new BIG BORE SECRET WEAPON AND I'M GOOD TO GO.  GOOD TIIMES.   ,UD,

Not for street, but here is what I did with my AF heads.
These pics were about 1996 I think.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/scan.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/2918ccwithAutorotors.jpg)

nice pics dangerous...looks nasty 8)

Wauw i alwas love sc vw s ,
did that set up run good on that engine?
it sure looks  beasty to me.
gr henri

It ran awesome,
but I never had the kahonas to give it 'all' it had.
went 9.7@147 in 1870lb car,(1.67 sixty!)
eventually crashed it.
42psi boost, 10:1 comp, and 2965cc.

Blowers are currently on a Ghia here in Australia.

Jeff drop me an email when you can , got an idea for this ;)

GET N R DONE. i wont say who,s they are. but there GET N DONE. and on a sunday even. and you thought i was sleep,n on the job. 1 of many sets that need to get finished :'( :). BTW these are going to be 52x38 rnd port PUMP GAS street heads .  AF OF COARSE.  . UD .   

getting back in the groove doing these heads. it feels good. been doing more 4IN cases lately. this work was done this morning 12/6/10. bore and install 2.070 /500 tall INT seats. will have to top the int seat with the bore head approximately .125 to the center of the chamber floor. this was the only seat my supplyer had to offer so i have to do some EXTRA leg work to make it work with the .375 tall center section. everything went very smoothly for a MONDAY!.you know you did a good job when you can put a brand new valve in with the guide and seat with NO VALVE JOB YET and see absolutely NO DAY LIGHT.  TWO DECENT SWINGS with the 5lb sledge on my yea pretty hamerd driver .010 press with absolutely NO MATERIAL TRAPED UNDER SEAT!!. tomorrow ex side. .[attachment=1][attachment=1]UD. 

and yes the head is HEATED UP FIRST!! before seat install. i used 5w20 Mobil 1 for my lube. almost doesent feel like .010 press could it be because its not taking any extra material (CHAFING) on its way down to the SEAT FLOOR.  ;) UD.

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14382.0;attach=47038;image)

Better clean that up before mom gets home, she's gonna be pissed!! :D

that's the Cly head and case unit only. mom uses the cleaner unit. yea i gusse it could use a SPIT SHINE.  .UD. 

I take it useing that heating plate, You never have anything on the back burner ?  Looks great jeff ! One question on getting the valve to line with seat, Your not useing a hand drill right ?

Don't give away all your secrets! ... Like anyone could/will reproduce! ;)
Do they make those in a single port configuration??? ;D

These pics are giving me ... well, they give me excitement ...  :D :o :D ;D

did the ex seat install this afternoon. 12/7/10. ex seat size 1.630/375 tall.  UD.

on to tomorrow.

Don't you cool down the seats and cut them for inside diameter before installing them ?

Udo

boring the int seats out for the proper port to seat alinment with out welding or plastic.

Really finding it interesting seeing what goes into turning a set of castings into a working set of heads, great stuff UD thanks for sharing it!

ok there ready for the porting bench.  :'( :) UD . 

Git R Dun! :D :D

Texas Tom even has the right accent for that  ;D

ummm....buddy.....there is only one pair their i see....dont forget the other pair.....after all you have two hands dont you....one grinder in each....ill bring the monster/red bull for ya.....haha jk ...

Hi UD!   Is the head in the background on the stovetop from cheese country? ;)   
Keep on keeping on bud. 8)

Hey there farmer long time.yea those are from velveta ville. Ill be takeing some picturs of those soon as well.good see N ya.take care.

making some CONSERVTIVE intake chips . UD .

as some of you already know these heads are not perfect out of the box. what ACVW head is. this is an area to me any way  that i want to refine a little better. so i did and the result is a better transition from the top of the port to the seat. i feel better now i can move onward. X MARKS THE SPOT. UD .

will probebly catch some cr!!p for those shots oh well. i would be lying to you if i said everything was all ROSEY. maybe if you had a HAIR DRYER ON TOP  it wouldent care. UD .

Good Job
I did the same thing on my angle flows a couple monthes ago, and also added some flanges on the intake and exhaust ports...
I'm stacked for the moment because I am still waiting for 54x40 Ti valves from DRD to continue!!!

more pic
http://blackhands.skynetblogs.be/2854-cc/

Cédric

looking good there cedric. looks like you have some nice tools to get the job done. thanks for sharing ;).    UD .

thx Jeff

Sweet lord that is some HUGE intakes pig 1200. How big is the intake valve and how high up the rpms do you plan to go to make them work?

Best rgs
BB

 :o

He's not going to have carbs, just a tanker with a really long hose pouring fuel straight into the heads... :D

It`s not gonna work unless you put some air in the mix   ;)

Let`s play around with JPM`s formulas and constants just for fun. Looking at the pictures I assume that the narrowest area in the port will be the intake valve and it is quite easy to find out how much rpm a valve will be good for:

RPM = 3300000 x Port dia x Port dia / Bore x Bore x Stroke  We can play around with different port sizes starting with 88% of the smallest area in the port.

50mm valve x 0.88 = 44mm
50mm valve x 0.90 = 45mm
50mm valve x 0.92 = 46mm

52mm valve x 0,88 = 45.8mm
52mm valve x 0.90 = 46.8mm
52mm valve x 0.92 = 47.8mm

101.6 x 101.6 x 88 = 908385

50mm valve calculations:

3300000 x 44 x 44 / 908385 = 7033 rpms
3300000 x 45 x 45 / 908385 = 7356 rpms
3300000 x 46 x 46 / 908385 = 7687 rpms

52mm valve calculations:

3300000 x 45.8 x 45.8 / 908385 = 7620 rpms
3300000 x 46.8 x 46.8 / 908385 = 7956 rpms
3300000 x 47.8 x 47.8 / 908385 = 8300 rpms

This is the rpms where the engine will peak - in theory. Now that we have the rpms we`re able to find the HP with a new formula:

HP = Displ x rpm x Bmep / 910

50mm intake valve:

2.854 x 7033 x 12.5 / 910 = 275hp
2.854 x 7356 x 12.5 / 910 = 288hp
2.854 x 7687 x 12.5 / 910 = 301hp

52mm intake valve:

2.854 x 7620 x 12.5 / 910 = 298hp
2.854 x 7956 x 12.5 / 910 = 311hp
2.854 x 8300 x 12.5 / 910 = 325hp

Fun isn`t it.  :)

Best rgs
BB

I just noticed that pig1200 is waiting for some 54mm titanium valves. Let us still consider that the valve represents the narrowest area in the intake port:

54mm valve x 0.88 = 47.5mm
54mm valve x 0.90 = 48.6mm
54mm valve x 0.92 0 49.7mm

101.6 x 101.6 x 88 = 908385
 
3300000 x 47.5 x 47.5 / 908385 = 8196 rpms
3300000 x 48.6 x 48.6 / 908385 = 8580 rpms
3300000 x 49.7 x 49.7 / 908385 = 8973 rpms

HP = Displ x rpm x Bmep / 910

2.854 x 8196 x 12.5 / 910 = 321hp
2.854 x 8580 x 12.5 / 910 = 336hp
2.854 x 8973 x 12.5 / 910 = 351hp

Now we`re talking  :) So if pig1200 opens up the intake to 49.7mm (92% of the 54mm valve) and is able to rev the 2.8l engine up to 8973 rpms it should in theory produce a wopping 351hp or 123hp pr litre. If it was as easy to build a engine like that as it is to calculate the effect I guess everyone would have done it.

Sorry for all the bla bla bla..

Best rgs
BB

I got 4 inc bore case and piston set from Jeff. Very accurate with what i need....very well prepared and exact deck height. i would get second case soon after year end
for back up motor.....

Nice calculations Kalle! Now all he needs on that motor is a hairdryer  8)

Cedric, Bi-Turbo and 8 Injectors ?  :D

my original 187 inch 52x38 port job. this port originally was the big round until i added a LITTLE material 360 of the port. rpm from 1500 to 5900 chaise dyno was 215hp and 215tq with 51.5 Ida,s. 91Oct 10.2 comp fk44 cam.

what kind of advantage takes the angled exhaust channel in this head against the a superflow head? Some work on a header kann take this angle too .

I would think one of the main advantages is less heat absorbed into the head in the exhaust port because the gasses aren't being constricted through as sharp of a bend; ~45* versus 90* on a superflo.
Also, having tested a pair of these on a flowbench, I can tell you the exhaust port flows VERY well and unrestricted with minimal work ... that's why they're popular with the turbo crowd.

oh yes this will be a real argument for this head .thanks for the info.

I'll look for the numbers ... I just found it amazing that the exhaust port never quite peaked on airflow (on this particular pair of heads! ... which were 'mildly' ported by Dave Kawell) and I tested it to .650". certainly more than your standard street motor.
Like I said, excellent choice for turbo or NITROUS applications. ;)

Somebody say TURBO??????

Ho Ho Hum ...

I ´ve been really interested about these heads ,a friend here in germany have them too for his 2.9l type one drag engine ,so it is a really big bore the small thing that i drive is a 90.5 and on a other engine a 94 drill ,what is the smallest drill you can buy .

they come 94 bore.....and will work...that is the smallest you can (drill) bore have

ok thanks thats good base for a 2332 cc engine

can someone tell me when i read the angel flows woulld have a 94 drill ,does it mean it fits to 1585cc pistons or a 94mm piston as a 1914 for example.thans or info about

94 piston ;)

ok thanks

well back to it. roughfed out the EX this morning. UD .  [attachment=1]

next would be 36 grit 3/4 cartridge roll.tomorrow.   . UD .

UDJ,
I don't know how much enjoyment you get out of this work, but I hope it's A LOT.
I find the process, your patience, skill & talent, not to mention the generosity to show it all to us ... amazing.
We all owe you thanks.
Wish they were mine! :D ;D
Cheers,
TxT

Whos are they ....

They're Jeff's right now ...  :D
I'm sure we'll know somehow when they're done. ;)

finalized the ex ports this morn.   36grit c roll then 40 grit 1inch shop roll then install new guides. onto intakes.  .UD.[attachment=1]

..  UD.

see ya tomorrow. UD. 

Jeff ----   What's the biggest valves u can stick in there with a 4" bore??????

yes that is a really good question ,my ever favorite heads for my new engine project. :P

hey ud i read in the bugpack catalog angel flows are available for 94 bore is that right.

Harold. the biggest valves i have installed was 56x40. UD.

as far as i know there not available in 94 YET. I'm sure rick or Dom could answer that better than i could.

Jeez you could fit a Buick through there!

intakes. valve job tomorrow. 

Jeff -- how much of a flow improvement would that be over a 48x38 head

FD,

I hope Jeff doesn't mind ... but comparison numbers are available here: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5367.0.html
Another excellent thread ...

The difference between his street port (50mm int) and the pro port (56mm int) were a flow improvement of 20-23% in the .500 to .600" range.
Take care,
TxT

yea still in the STONE AGE on this proceder. some body has to work hard for there bread and butter. at least the SUN don't shine through my angles.  ;). .UD .

UD.

next blend chambers with blend valves. UD .

Nice old school craftman work !!!
UD How did you remove and installl the new valve guides ?
and did you honed them after

Gr Henri

Hi MR HP.well if you look back a few pages you will see I installed the new guides on the intake side right from the get go for keeping the intake port GUIDE BOSS well supported while doing my work to it. Theses heads don't come with ANY parts in them. There VIRGIN. So no old guides have to be removed. I install the intakes STD size right down to the sholder then top down to spring boss.then the ex I install 75% of the way then again top the remainder to the SPRING BOSS.and then yes I hone to size. Hope that helps.  Thanks for vewing.and for the kind words..UD.

hey no more typing....more pictures....lol ;D i cant read anyway

a sample in rough state. .UD.

Jeff your suposed to be resting up and relaxing..... ;D

ok got the chambers finish sanded today. next bore for 4in. happy new year people .  ;)  .UD.

they were 4INCHED today. i know some of you don't like this method of boring/flycutting. i personally have never had a problem with this very primitive setup. its all in the TOUCH . I've used boring heads when i worked for others years ago but i still prefer this way. will blend the sharp chamber lip and slightly blend the seats next.. UD. 

see ya tomorrow. UD. 

Hi Jeff,
          What manifolds are you using with the angle flows? Any pics? Thanks for sharing your work.

Regards

David Gouk

broke all the sharp edges on the chambers and the valve job. put the final 45deg angle on the seats INT .030. EX .060. next cc all 4 chambers. . UD . 

Hi David. here ya go . IDA .   UD .

Very pretty jeff, (AS ALWAYS)

Looks good Jeff!
Can you tell us what sort of engine these will be on, (street, carbs?)
and what seat angles you have used?
Was that first seat cut with the stones the angle UNDER the 45 seat?
Thanks,
Dave.

Hi Dave. the angles  1st 60deg 2ND 30deg 3rd 45deg sealing. and final radiused the 60deg with the carbide and sanding roll. 51.5s Ida,s it is a pump gas street engine and its BIG . that's all i can say at the moment. sorry i cant let the cat out of the bag just yet. Ive been meaning to reply back on your beast there Dave. very nice!!. so what are you tinkering with these days?  . UD.

Been working on my NA heads...lots of hours!:
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/IMG_1301.jpg)

lookin good there dave. those goin on a grocery getter ;D.   UD.

cc the 4 today 62cc all equal. tomorrow drill the stud pattern..  UD .

Thanks for sparing the time to share your work. Looking good.

Very impressive set of work. What would the price of such a set of heads incl full port job be?

BORING i know. 1 is finished drilled. do the other tomorrow. then the fun part. head washer SPOT FACING.. UD .

UD.

hey buddy.....just go ahead and bolt them up to that block sitting there for a quick test drive

Yea I thoght I was going to get that comment.BTW DANGEROUS DAVE are you ok down there you better change your plans and build your self a VW powerd speed boat. Hope everything is ok withyou and the family.  UD.

Thanks for asking Jeff.
We are all alive, and my place is still dry inside.

Unfortunatelly my parents place went under(and Dads radio tech workshop),
so they will stay with me for now.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/088.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/132.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n216/dangerous_05/119.jpg)

wow dave...some pictures...sorry to hear this...hope all r safe

Glad to hear things are some what OK.I know it will take awhile but I hope everything gets back on track soon for ya D Dave.

started the spot facing yesterday.   .UD. 

Nice tools. ;)

this procedure with the two middle top studs alone takes a little over 2 hrs per head to get it right. still has overkill thickness everywere for reliability. 1 done.   . UD . 

Fantastic tight fits. Second to none Jeff. Get R Done  ;D

So Jeff,
After studying the photos of your fine craftsmanship, do these heads utilize same-length studs top and bottom, such as the Autocraft 910 heads did?
Thanks,
TxT

yes Sir that's the idea.  bottom centers are a little bit longer not by much.  . next on the agenda will be match port. then I'm sure what people have been waiting for. FLOW BENCH. I'm sure the ones that just have to see BIG #S will be standing by to either  :D ::). or the ones that understand that BIG#S Arnt everything  ;) 8). I'm going to flow test them one time. THATS IT!!. RUN IT. DOWN THE ROAD. I'm going to try to measure AIRSPEED ON THIS set as well. I'm curios. BTW. thank you to ALL for the kind words.  .UD.    

I have witnessed lesser flowing heads to be quicker irl over the high flowing ones, so I fully see where your coming from. You do have balls though. Not many head porters will admit to this as most clients can only be impressed with high cuft/min numbers. Only the very very good ones can afford to say this  ;)
Airspeed is king!  ;D

For me, Words don't really do justice for what Mr. Denham's doin here!  But words are all I can give.  Great work to say the least!  A lot of creative thinking coupled with much experience,  practical knowledge and high level machining and skill to do this kind of work!  Thanks for sharing and explaining what goes in to your work! Much appreciated! Jeff

Hey Jeff -- sent you an email but thought I'd ask it here also --- Did you have a problem starting your 3 liter engines, especially when hot?????? I saw where someone is actually offering a gear-reduction starter for VW's and was wondering if it was something I should invest in for my big engine??????

Thanks Harold

He truly is an artist.

[He truly is an artist.
[/quote]
No doubt!  The thing of it is he took the initiative to do something creative / new and show everyone how he's doing it as well.  He also "tested" his stuff in front of everyone (drove it and raced it) and proved it lives and it works.  If I had the money for another project right now I'd love to build one of these monsters. Just my $0.02...Jeff

Any updates Jeff?
I check twice a day for new pics.

X2
Get 'R Done ;D

sorry for the Delay folks. will be ready to start back up on them in about a week. need to make a New FLOW FICTURE for this set. and also like always have to MANY PANS IN THE FIRE as they say . stay tuned to the same WACKEY CHANNEL.thanks for viewing.  UD .

4" the only time your gunna show of about size  ;)

howdy folks. its been awhile. back to work on the manifold part of the project. going to Bush the stud holes on this set. its not totaly nesasary to do this but it does make it nice when the manifolds are tighten down and does not have to be pulled up or down or side ways to line up with the intake port when the match port is complete. UD.

Im sure you can see the material that needs to be removed to match the Head in the last shot. will need to serface the intake flange of the head to make flat again due to the heat generated after i welded the inside of the port. UD

Can't wait to see them in person!

Hi I'm from Macedonia and jackets to make 1600 engine, I doubt the valves and channels on their heads.
I do not know if it will fit in a 86mm cylinder valves 42x37 and if fit would be wrong if the IN channel to expand to a 37mm EXchannel to expand to 39mm. ??? ??? ???
By default these channels is 30 IN and 32 EX if the IN logical channel to expand and Edge 7mm channel to expand to 7mm, whether this came straight. ??? ???
And if you do not collects 42x37 will go a variant of 40dzh36 by broadening the channels IN 34mm and EX 36mm

Please help me and advise me if I'm wrong.

Hi MrMut and welcome
I think you need to post your question in a new topic as I don't really see a connection between your question and Angle Flow heads

You have the right to open a new thread for processing channels to head. :)

[attachment=1]

Awesome!

this is the new CNC angle flow by Jeff Denham...this is the street/turbo port he has available...the major porting work is now DONE! there are three different port designs available!

I am sure Jeff feels alot less like this now


(http://madeinhead.org/anism/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/atlas.jpg)

COOOOL!!!!!

REAL PORN!  :D 8)

Are there some pics of the other designs?

Very nice! I like it a lot!