The Cal-look Lounge

Cal-look/High Performance => Pure racing => Topic started by: richie on July 08, 2012, 17:01:47 pm



Title: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 17:01:47 pm
Along time ago I posted how much it cost me to run 10s driving to the track and back in a street car,just bolting on the slicks at the track,stinger for muffler,and turning on the nitrous,at the time it caused lots of negative BS mainly from those internet experts who never did anything,but knew it all ::).


I had a conversation with a friend yesterday suggesting I should do it again just to see what it would cost now,and offered his car as the donor,but how do you put a value on an existing car,which already has a good gearbox/axles/brakes etc.

So I am thinking of doing it,but starting from scratch,buy a car,build it,drive it,race it and see how quick it will go,nothing to exotic,still N/A type 1 with a bottle added to add a little more hp,type 1 trans,stock style suspension,just off the shelf shocks,urethane bushings etc.

I will look for a later model year car,but anything will be considered,it will be IRS as thats what I know but no other major changes,and my idea is to document everything I buy,my time is free and wont be added to the cost.

So how much will it cost?  what suggestions does anyone have for a combination that will get it done? what can I get away with parts wise thats cheap? is a normal chromoly crank good enough? mag case or alluminium? heads?  efi or carbs? the cost for carbs and msd isnt much different to efi now is it?

What about the gearbox? stock late mainshaft? or does it need an expensive aftermarket shaft? super diff? or quaife or ZF? gusseted case?

Wheels? Ercos or something else? gasburners would be nice ;D but may be to pricy slicks or drag radials?


Cage? seats? what else can you think of?

I would try to buy as much used stuff as I can to keep the cost down

So feel free to give me you thoughts/opinions etc?


cheers richie
 



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lee.C on July 08, 2012, 17:08:21 pm
Very interested thread dude - I'll keep an eye on this one  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 08, 2012, 17:14:22 pm
Keep it as light as possible!

And it's almost free also  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 17:33:54 pm
Keep it as light as possible!

And it's almost free also  ;D

But light cars crash :o ;)  the old car was around 1000kg with driver any less than that will help :)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 08, 2012, 17:47:45 pm
Cool idea Richie! Lots of cred to you if you go all the way to the goal with this tread :)

This is my estimate, based on the Norwegian marked:

A solid 1302 71/72, stripped as much as possible, 30000,-NOK / 4000EUR
Good Used bus trans 002/091 5000,- NOK / 666EUR
Engine
Big bore oxy boxer, FK89, used Superflow heads, high comp (>13:1), E85, IDA 48, 50 000,- NOK / 6666 EUR
Wheels 10 000,- NOK /1333EUR
Div stuff 15 000,- NOK/2000EUR

Sum estimate 110 000,- NOK / 14665EUR

Of course, with this setup, you get only one race, as there is no safety added, and you will get disqualified after the first run ;)
So maybe add safety for 10000,- NOK /1333EUR

Keep us updated :)

Berger


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 17:57:34 pm
Cool idea Richie! Lots of cred to you if you go all the way to the goal with this tread :)

This is my estimate, based on the Norwegian marked:

A solid 1302 71/72, stripped as much as possible, 30000,-NOK / 4000EUR
Good Used bus trans 002/091 5000,- NOK / 666EUR
Engine
Big bore oxy boxer, FK89, used Superflow heads, high comp (>13:1), E85, IDA 48, 50 000,- NOK / 6666 EUR
Wheels 10 000,- NOK /1333EUR
Div stuff 15 000,- NOK/2000EUR

Sum estimate 110 000,- NOK / 14665EUR

Of course, with this setup, you get only one race, as there is no safety added, and you will get disqualified after the first run ;)
So maybe add safety for 10000,- NOK /1333EUR

Keep us updated :)

Berger


Excellent,thankyou Mr berger ;D

Thats the input I was hoping for,I am thinking more a 12oo model71-72 year as its tax exempt here,and proberly the lightest version to start with,always a bonus.

And here at test n tune/rwyb they dont seem to worry about cage etc legalities so I should get a chance to at least back it up if I manage it :D I am sure you have seen the pictures of t shirt only drivers on the strip :o

I think the wbx case has issues due to the strange bearing configuration,and type 1 mains was plenty before,those style cranks are cheap enough,but i will look into it some more as you suggested it

and the e85 seems to be getting harder to get here,a little less compression will allow me to fill the chamber with more gas ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 08, 2012, 18:06:50 pm
I think when you borrow Jo's red car and sneak in that blue bottle you're there ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:17:48 pm
I think when you borrow Jo's red car and sneak in that blue bottle you're there ;D ;D

Michael


But the shipping it back here and then back over there again without her knowing would be expensive and difficult ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:23:52 pm
So I have been rummaging around through old shite in boxes,so far I have found the old header,the intake manifolds[heads are long gone] the cam[was swapped out when I went turbo] and I still have the nitrous set up,but want to do it with whats available now so proberly wont use it

Fonz can I have my gearbox and throttle bodies back?  :D

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

Kev you dont need that crank/flywheel and rods for a while do you?

I do actually still know were alot of it is but that would defeat the object of this if I do it.


Mmmm a wet miserable rainy day isnt good for the bank account :o

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 08, 2012, 18:26:00 pm
What kind of engine size is needed do you think? Small with a lot of nitrous or big with less.

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lee.C on July 08, 2012, 18:30:36 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 08, 2012, 18:33:54 pm
give russ a ring and buy his car, job done


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fasterbrit on July 08, 2012, 18:34:28 pm
Great idea Mr Webb. I can donate a tig welded bolt-in style cage believed to be from Lummus. It's the same type as in Ivan McCutcheon's '67. Better than nothing, but probably not Msa spec. Yours if you need it ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 08, 2012, 18:36:24 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

Yes.

Light car and 300hp NA.

BIG engine tuned to perfection.

LARGE throttlebodies


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:50:02 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

Anything is possible,
the idea is not to spend a fortune on a firework with a short fuse :o,hence the title,if you want to build a 10sec N/A engine and try then go for it but thats not what i am trying to do, the idea is it will be streetable N/A and able to drive a fair distance on pump gas,the bottle will give the extra needed to run the number.

I have no desire to put a highly strung N/A engine in a crisp packet and see how quickly it will blow away :D

What i would like this to be is something within reach of a good percentage of people on here,not that they will want to do it but looking at the skills of alot of the projects
 "in the werks" shows me theres alot who could do something like this if they wanted to :)

cheers richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 08, 2012, 18:50:50 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

It is, just look at Jussis old split, 10,4 with a type 4 and ida's :) no nos there


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:52:43 pm
What kind of engine size is needed do you think? Small with a lot of nitrous or big with less.

Michael

2276ish and a medium shot of gas in a 1800lb car would do it easy,not using anything exotic is the idea :)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:53:56 pm
give russ a ring and buy his car, job done

Russ who? I dont know anyone called Russ whos car fits the description I gave?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:55:20 pm
Great idea Mr Webb. I can donate a tig welded bolt-in style cage believed to be from Lummus. It's the same type as in Ivan McCutcheon's '67. Better than nothing, but probably not Msa spec. Yours if you need it ;)

Thanks Matt,if you can advertise it for a pound in the for sale section so it has a value I can write down :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 18:58:15 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

It is, just look at Jussis old split, 10,4 with a type 4 and ida's :) no nos there

There you go,not sure the budget will stretch to a split though ;)  I really dont know much about the engine in that car,how streetable was it?

Lee havent you got a split? start gathering those type 4 parts and we will see you with it at scc next year?

cheers richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on July 08, 2012, 19:04:00 pm
Dannyboy inst far off it fingers crossed he will get a ten this weekend I may be wrong but I think the is at about 14k build cost

Cheers andy


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 19:09:08 pm
Dannyboy inst far off it fingers crossed he will get a ten this weekend I may be wrong but I think the is at about 14k build cost

Cheers andy

Thanks Andy,good comparission,dont plan on anything that shiny though :)

Dannyyou there?

 you need to start driving it to the  track now before i beat you to it :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 08, 2012, 19:11:33 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

It is, just look at Jussis old split, 10,4 with a type 4 and ida's :) no nos there

There you go,not sure the budget will stretch to a split though ;)  I really dont know much about the engine in that car,how streetable was it?

Lee havent you got a split? start gathering those type 4 parts and we will see you with it at scc next year?

cheers richie



Split or not, just match the weight ;)
I know the same engine was used for circut racing, so it was durable al right. I don't know much about the details inside the engine, beside it was a big volume. But give Jussi a call, I'm sure he likes your idea! :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 08, 2012, 19:17:56 pm
give russ a ring and buy his car, job done

Russ who? I dont know anyone called Russ whos car fits the description I gave?
Fellows


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lee.C on July 08, 2012, 19:21:19 pm
Just wondering if it would be possible WITHOUT the blue bottle  ??? ie just Carbs or EFI  :-\

It is, just look at Jussis old split, 10,4 with a type 4 and ida's :) no nos there

There you go,not sure the budget will stretch to a split though ;)  I really dont know much about the engine in that car,how streetable was it?

Lee havent you got a split? start gathering those type 4 parts and we will see you with it at scc next year?

cheers richie



Not any more  :'( its in the process of moving on to its new owner in Belguim  :'( But it does mean I can finally get on and build a proper Cal Looker for myself - anyway I do get your points about the N/A 10's :)

Like I said I'll be keeping an eye on this thread


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 19:25:04 pm
give russ a ring and buy his car, job done

Russ who? I dont know anyone called Russ whos car fits the description I gave?
Fellows

Is it for sale then?

Micheal you puzzle me sometimes,did you actually read what I wrote in the 1st post? the idea is to build a car,not buy one,and to see how cheap it is,i cant see Russ selling his car for a few grand can you? and with a pauter cased,autocraft 910 headed watercooled turbo efi engine with porsche gearbox it hardly "not exotic" is it?  and I wont be doing anything watercooled,thats just not what i am into :)

thanks for your input though :)

cheers richie




Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 08, 2012, 19:51:33 pm
give russ a ring and buy his car, job done

Russ who? I dont know anyone called Russ whos car fits the description I gave?
Fellows

Is it for sale then?

Micheal you puzzle me sometimes,did you actually read what I wrote in the 1st post? the idea is to build a car,not buy one,and to see how cheap it is,i cant see Russ selling his car for a few grand can you? and with a pauter cased,autocraft 910 headed watercooled turbo efi engine with porsche gearbox it hardly "not exotic" is it?  and I wont be doing anything watercooled,thats just not what i am into :)

thanks for your input though :)

cheers richie




LOL


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: thehanz DVK on July 08, 2012, 19:54:15 pm
now this is intresting  ;D  like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 20:03:06 pm
now this is intresting  ;D  like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....


your thread did move the thought nearer the front of my brain,so you are partly responsible for my actions :D ;D no luxury of a 5 speed here though,I will have to out up with the noise of a short 4th gear :'( ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: thehanz DVK on July 08, 2012, 20:08:25 pm
now this is intresting  ;D  like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....


your thread did move the thought nearer the front of my brain,so you are partly responsible for my actions :D ;D no luxury of a 5 speed here though,I will have to out up with the noise of a short 4th gear :'( ;)

cheers richie


sorry about that... ;D ;D  for me it is the once in a lifetime car with as les limits as possible (for me that is)  , you will go to scc ?? then i drop by for a nitro talk, and a beer


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 08, 2012, 20:11:54 pm
now this is intresting  ;D  like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....


your thread did move the thought nearer the front of my brain,so you are partly responsible for my actions :D ;D no luxury of a 5 speed here though,I will have to out up with the noise of a short 4th gear :'( ;)

cheers richie


sorry about that... ;D ;D  for me it is the once in a lifetime car with as les limits as possible (for me that is)  , you will go to scc ?? then i drop by for a nitro talk, and a CUP OF TEA


corrected it for you  ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 08, 2012, 20:27:11 pm
On a serious note this sounds cool.

Do you intend to buy a good body, that doesn't need any work, or something that needs welding, paint etc.  I think there might be as much as 5k between the two.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 20:44:20 pm
On a serious note this sounds cool.

Do you intend to buy a good body, that doesn't need any work, or something that needs welding, paint etc.  I think there might be as much as 5k between the two.

if its cheap and needs a little welding I will deal with it,but the paintwork wont affect it in anyway,found these 3 gems so far,the top 2 are 3grand each,the last is 1500pounds,unfortunately it doesnt have the smiths 3 spokes anymore
The orange one looks like a really good car with 81000 genuine miles[well supposedly]

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 08, 2012, 21:30:51 pm
my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 08, 2012, 21:42:05 pm
Does trading parts count ??

Currently have a engine that cost me £2800 so far including labour A body and running gear that cost £200 , various parts that cost me another £400-500  due to trading parts
The  gearbox with quaffe was the most expensive at £3 k  
Got to add a cage and another £1k and hopefully run an 11

Wanna team up ? And run a ten for under £10 k ??


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 21:47:43 pm
Does trading parts count ??

Currently have a engine that cost me £2800 so far including labour A body and running gear that cost £200 , various parts tha cost.me another £400-500  due to trading pars
The  gearbox with quaffe was the most expensive at £3 k   
Got to add a cage and another £1k and hopefully run an 11

Wanna team up ? And run a ten for under £10 k ??

if its the total you spent inc buying the parts you traded then yes why not,if I buy a car and dont need wheels,engine,gearbox,interior etc then I will sell them and the money will go back in the pot,I am after a total money spent to create the car as it goes down the track,you need to finish it and come join danny and me trying to do it  ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 21:48:40 pm
my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod :D



lightweight,you not the car ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2012, 21:55:45 pm
Hey Greg

you want to come throw a tune in it when its done?  i know you have some ideas on jetting a nitrous set up ;)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on July 08, 2012, 22:14:37 pm
my engine is very streetable and not very exotic although even though the car is mot ready i wouldnt want to drive it to the pod :D


Just drive it from my workshop Or from we're I keep the tow busDanny :) will that count  :P


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 08, 2012, 22:37:41 pm
i might get it moted to drive it from your workshop to the pod as any further and id just call the rac and say its broke then get them to drive me home  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on July 08, 2012, 22:39:50 pm
i might get it moted to drive it from your workshop to the pod as any further and id just call the rac and say its broke then get them to drive me home  ;D

Wait till November and you don't need an MOT  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Greg G on July 08, 2012, 22:54:56 pm
I know with my street motor in John Varela's Super Comp car we had less than $8,000 in it total. The car would just need some interior and lights to be street legal. My boy Jacob's car doesn't have more than that in it either, but it hasn't run a 10 yet.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fasterbrit on July 09, 2012, 07:53:35 am
Just to throw a curve ball as you aren't going to be naturally aspirated anyway... Why not put a huge turbo on a little 1776 and wind the boost up. After all, there's that Swedish car from Turbo Town that ran 10.1 at Scc and that was 1600, stock crank, stock heads etc. The only real expensive stuff is the fuel injection side of things. But these can also be sourced second hand quite cheaply.

I think your biggest single cost on this project will be your gearbox. No real way around this issue, unless you buy a 915 for £1,500 and run it as is. Perfect ratios for turbo already ;) and plenty strong enough. Five speeds also, so good on the motorways...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 09:20:14 am
I know with my street motor in John Varela's Super Comp car we had less than $8,000 in it total. The car would just need some interior and lights to be street legal. My boy Jacob's car doesn't have more than that in it either, but it hasn't run a 10 yet.


Thanks Greg,real facts and figures is what I need :)  I cant see us getting it that low over here,but who knows if I can find used bargains

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 09:33:19 am
Just to throw a curve ball as you aren't going to be naturally aspirated anyway... Why not put a huge turbo on a little 1776 and wind the boost up. After all, there's that Swedish car from Turbo Town that ran 10.1 at Scc and that was 1600, stock crank, stock heads etc. The only real expensive stuff is the fuel injection side of things. But these can also be sourced second hand quite cheaply.

I think your biggest single cost on this project will be your gearbox. No real way around this issue, unless you buy a 915 for £1,500 and run it as is. Perfect ratios for turbo already ;) and plenty strong enough. Five speeds also, so good on the motorways...


Yes Nikalus's car is a good example of what can be done with normal parts,but for this i would like to stick with the bottle,there has to be lots of cars out there running good healthy 2276-2332 engines that would take a good shot of gas without destroying themselves,but no one really uses it,maybe I can show it wont destroy the engine[maybe I cant :o ] 
My own preference would be with EFI but all those existing cars with idas should be able to do the same,I have read so many times that there is no difference power wise at wide open throttle ;D

i ran 11.5 best in the old cabrio with the bottle on a vw "super beetle mainshaft" before I messed up and broke 1st gear,now in a 1800lb car it should last at least to low 11s,and with what I learnt about clutches since then I think I can get it to work,so the idea would be
singls side cover case,SB mainshaft,close 3rd and 4th and maybe see if a super diff is man enough,that shouldnt cost to much,unless I can find a bargain used box.



So lets here some more suggestions on engine combo's ,well everthing really?

Would say a renault box work and be strong enough?


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 09, 2012, 10:23:15 am
Hi Richie,

Come over to the dark side, go Type 4 :D,
get some secondhand 100mm Deutz cylinders (hope you can machine them cheap), get some 101.6 JE pistons in it. Stainless steel valves aren t to expensive on aircooled.net.
maybe have a look here at getbackontracks post, http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14531.90.html
 
I really like your idea, Hope you accomplice this.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 11:14:48 am
Hi Richie,

Come over to the dark side, go Type 4 :D,
get some secondhand 100mm Deutz cylinders (hope you can machine them cheap), get some 101.6 JE pistons in it. Stainless steel valves aren t to expensive on aircooled.net.
maybe have a look here at getbackontracks post, http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14531.90.html
 
I really like your idea, Hope you accomplice this.

Regards Edgar

NOOOOOOoooooo :D   From what little I know of type 4 nothing is cheap,how do you get the heads to seal when you pressurise them beyond N/A[turbo or nitrous] is it still welding blocks on the case and adding studs?


There is so much more type 1 stuff available,and so many already have it that it is the logical route to take,and I have a resonable idea of what works,it wont be fun if I break stuff everytime I go to the track because I dont know what the limit is of the parts used,and I do know how to find the limits believe me :o ;D


But I am going to do more research inot bergers bus box idea,maybe a stock 2l bay 091 would be strong enough with just the syncro diff added,need to look into stock ratios

cheers richie





Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 09, 2012, 11:43:41 am
NOOOOOOoooooo :D   From what little I know of type 4 nothing is cheap,how do you get the heads to seal when you pressurise them beyond N/A[turbo or nitrous] is it still welding blocks on the case and adding studs?

cheers richie

Hahaha.
On the sealing matter have a look how porsche 911 turbo cylinder tops are ;).
Yepp that is the downfall it is not cheap, but the + is, everything is very strong.

Good luck Edgar


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fasterbrit on July 09, 2012, 14:23:22 pm
The type 4 idea isn't a bad one and could even save money in the long run, as you won't have to spend dollars on upgrading brakes. Make a clever engine release system and drop the anchor  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Elnef on July 09, 2012, 15:47:55 pm
I like the orange car you found

Put this engine in and add youre bottle
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17885.msg263527.html#msg263527

Do it this way to keep heads on no welding  ;)



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 16:04:16 pm
I like the orange car you found

Put this engine in and add youre bottle
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17885.msg263527.html#msg263527

Do it this way to keep heads on no welding  ;)



That looks nice,but expensive :o   and given the problems you guys have had with type 4s and actually know something about them makes me want to stick to what I know even more :)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Ole on July 09, 2012, 16:09:47 pm
You can have my '64 daily driver for the project. When you're done (timeslip!) I'd take it back for you to safe space... ;)

Ole


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 09, 2012, 17:54:03 pm
richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on July 09, 2012, 19:18:29 pm
Sounds like a very interesting threads. Not that I want to run 10, but to have an idea how make things in a logical order.
There is a lot of subjects of this kind in US cars magasines. That's a very good idea to make one for aircooled vw's. Having fun on a DIY guy's budget.
Thanks Richie  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fastbus on July 09, 2012, 20:08:10 pm
richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it ;)

Sorry fella but i bought it  ;)

Hey Richie,
              if your going to run efi, are you likely to use the cb style throttle bodies and tap your foggers in the manifolds, or would you use a single throttle body and use a single fogger mixing the fuel and gas?
What would be a better system for the power increase you require?
Are you likely to run your system with a controller?



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 20:20:19 pm
richie
andy joyner has an irs box for sale with super diff im not sure of the internals but it handled 200hp turbo engine he only wants 500 quid for it ;)

Sorry fella but i bought it  ;)

Hey Richie,
              if your going to run efi, are you likely to use the cb style throttle bodies and tap your foggers in the manifolds, or would you use a single throttle body and use a single fogger mixing the fuel and gas?
What would be a better system for the power increase you require?
Are you likely to run your system with a controller?


individual throttle bodies is what I ran before so problerly go that route again,tap the manifolds for the nitrous,yes use a controller to help the type1 gearbox live


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on July 09, 2012, 20:28:02 pm
doing it in a bug is easy.... its been done before not only by you, why not make it interesting and use a Split Bus....... Im thinking Empi Bus which has IRS conversion, Im thinking old No Mercy IRS gear box, Im thinking NOS brm's and i have either the engine that cam from no mercy or the super street engine from ron f, i have 1 full bottle of gas, so all we need is an induction system......... now that would be a target a 10 sec street parts hauler.......... ;D

Awaiting your reply.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fastbus on July 09, 2012, 20:47:28 pm
Hey Richie
Regarding you engine power, how agressive is the motor likely to be before a shot?
How much of a shot do you think you will use to put you in the 10's?
Will the compression ratio be an important factor in a heavy shot of gas?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm building one of my cars with a similar idear {stock 2.1i wbx}
with a single wet fogger system and a controller.

I will work my way up the jettings to see how far my £300.00 engine can go before it fails.

This is an intresting thread that i will look forward to see the results from.

Paul

 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 20:52:06 pm
doing it in a bug is easy.... its been done before not only by you, why not make it interesting and use a Split Bus....... Im thinking Empi Bus which has IRS conversion, Im thinking old No Mercy IRS gear box, Im thinking NOS brm's and i have either the engine that cam from no mercy or the super street engine from ron f, i have 1 full bottle of gas, so all we need is an induction system......... now that would be a target a 10 sec street parts hauler.......... ;D

Awaiting your reply.


Not quite what I was thinking but we can do the empi bus next ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 09, 2012, 20:58:46 pm
Hey Richie
Regarding you engine power, how agressive is the motor likely to be before a shot?
How much of a shot do you think you will use to put you in the 10's?
Will the compression ratio be an important factor in a heavy shot of gas?

Sorry for all the questions but i'm building one of my cars with a similar idear {stock 2.1i wbx}
with a single wet fogger system and a controller.

I will work my way up the jettings to see how far my £300.00 engine can go before it fails.

This is an intresting thread that i will look forward to see the results from.

Paul

 

about 180hp from the engine and the same from the nitrous ;),compression will be set for street use


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: 58vw on July 10, 2012, 02:53:10 am
richie....

it can not be done!! ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 10, 2012, 08:21:10 am
The type 4 idea isn't a bad one and could even save money in the long run, as you won't have to spend dollars on upgrading brakes. Make a clever engine release system and drop the anchor  ;D

I don t feel the love, where is the love.... hahahhahaha :D :D :D :D

PS:
Richie on the engine again, you could use a wbx crank (only problem is maybe to small 76mm) in a type 1 case, you can have the advantage of using a bigger flywheesl and clutches (up to 228mm)
would better fit the 091 bus box.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 08:46:10 am
Eddie

thanks thats not something I thought about,but the funky bearing set up on a wbx crank would put me off,also I am not sure how good the flywheel to crank fixing is,its another area that could end up costing money quickly,with the type 1 stuff I at least know what i can get away with before the flywheel falls off :o


So does anyone else apart from Berger want to throw so idea of cost out there? I have a figure in my head now but want to see what other feel its likely to cost? most of you know how much you have in your cars and how fast they are


cheers richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 10, 2012, 08:55:07 am
Eddie

thanks thats not something I thought about,but the funky bearing set up on a wbx crank would put me off,also I am not sure how good the flywheel to crank fixing is,its another area that could end up costing money quickly,with the type 1 stuff I at least know what i can get away with before the flywheel falls off :o


So does anyone else apart from Berger want to throw so idea of cost out there? I have a figure in my head now but want to see what other feel its likely to cost? most of you know how much you have in your cars and how fast they are


cheers richie


No problem,  I now you have a lots of parts laying around, gives you things to think about what to use..

Sorry not good with the figures....  :-\

Bu the way the crank to flywheel is the same as type 4, 5 big 12.9 bolts.

Regards Eddie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 09:13:14 am
Eddie has anyone put a good nitrous shot through the standard bolts? I rad a topic on here before about upgrading them,and allsorts of different ideas were put out there,when I ran the nitrous motor in the cabrio it was only 8 dowelled with a good gland nut done up properly,nothing fancy or expensive


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 10, 2012, 09:23:06 am
Used
case = £400
Crank = £200
Cam + gear wheel = £60
Barrels and pistons = £200
sump = £30
Heads = £400
Carbs and manifolds = £800
Machine work and extras = £300

Gearbox = £1000

Now if this is a one shot 10 sec, 250bhp NOS system :) = £800
Cage = £800

Car, wheels and brakes  = £3000


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 10, 2012, 10:08:10 am
Thank you all for the good read! Richie, shouldn't the heading be: How LITTLE money to run 10s in a street car? Anyway, a great thread and the timing is spot on. Some of us is having a rough time financially but still wish to have fun.

My two cents, it is just a matter of using the calculator. Find the weight and you know what it will take to get you into the 10's. A good, solid shortblock in combination with good heads then add nitrous in a controlled way (you will soon blow any budget if not), a solid, true street car with the right tricks and you're there.

-K-



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jesus on July 10, 2012, 11:24:17 am
Hi Richie

am curious is this a theoretical exercise? Or are you actually planning on giving it a go?

Cheers

Alex


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 11:59:51 am
Hi Richie

am curious is this a theoretical exercise? Or are you actually planning on giving it a go?

Cheers

Alex

Hi alex

It will get done :),started looking for a base car,and will scan all the for sale adds for potential parts to use,new or used if I think I can use it then I will try,I will set myself a realistic target to have it done by,then we will see if it works

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 12:06:45 pm
Thank you all for the good read! Richie, shouldn't the heading be: How LITTLE money to run 10s in a street car? Anyway, a great thread and the timing is spot on. Some of us is having a rough time financially but still wish to have fun.

My two cents, it is just a matter of using the calculator. Find the weight and you know what it will take to get you into the 10's. A good, solid shortblock in combination with good heads then add nitrous in a controlled way (you will soon blow any budget if not), a solid, true street car with the right tricks and you're there.

-K-



Yes you are right,but to some people particularly in these difficult times even doing it on a budget is to much :(

So i will leave it as how much I think :)

I have played the weight/hp calculator before and it never seems to work out for ,so will go with more of an educated guess,it should be more fun that way not knowing what will happen :o ;D

I dont have a budget as such but do have an amount I think it should be do-able on,hopefully less but I need everyone to advertise all the parts they dont need anymore for sale so I can get started :D


the track thing could be a problem seeing as its raining again here ::)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 10, 2012, 12:11:33 pm
Eddie has anyone put a good nitrous shot through the standard bolts? I rad a topic on here before about upgrading them,and allsorts of different ideas were put out there,when I ran the nitrous motor in the cabrio it was only 8 dowelled with a good gland nut done up properly,nothing fancy or expensive


cheers richie

The reason I sugested to use a wbx case converted to air, is because of it`s proven strength, and it`s cheap. Both the case and crank can easily handle 400hp and be very durable. ARP offers bolts for the flywheel if you want to add strength there. All you have to do is to convert it to type 1 camshaft, and cut of the water stuff. Of course there is some machining to get the cylinders in there, but you have to do that on a type 1 case anyway ;)

Berger


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 14:51:30 pm
Oyvind,
[hope I spelt that correct?]

Can you give me a rough idea on cost for all the work needed to a wbx case to make it usable inc type1 head stud pattern and what do you do about the lack of oil capacity? dry sump isnt in the budget ? how difficult are main bearings to get? I know of one thats been done to type 4 mains,rear thrust,type 1 lifters,decked,flange crank still 4inch bore and it seems alot of money and seems difficult to get actually done,there are other anomilalies as well like front seal,pulley etc,fitting tin,if I got some of this wrong please let me know,nothing is not being considered at the moment[well except type 4 :D ]

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Elnef on July 10, 2012, 15:43:16 pm
First you cry about expensive type4 then the work to get a wbx ready bla bla  ;D  :D

Here you go a wbx 2,1L short block with type1 stud pattern and so on 7000dkr

http://vwnettet.dk/topic/181278



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 16:46:59 pm
First you cry about expensive type4 then the work to get a wbx ready bla bla  ;D  :D

Here you go a wbx 2,1L short block with type1 stud pattern and so on 7000dkr

http://vwnettet.dk/topic/181278




 :P :-*    I am trying to see what options there are and how much it costs,but the off the shelf cost and availability of type 1 parts will be simpler and easier,the idea is to do it cheaply,I already have 2 money pits,I have no desire to create another one,you must understand that? :D


Thanks for the link,I put it into google translate but some of it still doesnt become clear

could you explain for me please?

cheers richie
 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on July 10, 2012, 17:10:07 pm
Yes please, stick to something that is doable for a good DIYer. For some of you, it just make sense to use a WBX or a type4 because they are stronger. But for most of us, having all the work done on such case is expensive or even find people that are actually able to do it is not that simple. And following this trend, it will just make sense to put a turbo and EFI and all the build will snowball into a high end, high tech build.
Do it the Mark Herbert way, simple, reliable and fun to drive.  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 18:22:45 pm
Yes please, stick to something that is doable for a good DIYer. For some of you, it just make sense to use a WBX or a type4 because they are stronger. But for most of us, having all the work done on such case is expensive or even find people that are actually able to do it is not that simple. And following this trend, it will just make sense to put a turbo and EFI and all the build will snowball into a high end, high tech build.
Do it the Mark Herbert way, simple, reliable and fun to drive.  ;)

Exactly J-F   
I am trying to show what can be done with what most people have,and will stick to that unless there is a major saving or improvement to be had easily that might change the basic combos most build

I did wonder how long it would be before the Super sh#t box was mentioned,it was a perfect example of less is more, regular off the shelf parts put together well to make a good package,it cant be that complicated to do something similar with the bottle as the ingredient to make up for most not wishing to lighten there cars that much

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Elnef on July 10, 2012, 19:34:58 pm
I uderstand what you are saying  ;)

But I would like to say the type4 engine I made a link to yes its a lot of money but there is parts in it for a lot more so expensive no

I made the other link because its fits Richies idea well
Lots of parts for the money just under 1000euro
I would say its a easy fix for a diy man to take over the wbx short block

nye unitec pejlstænger = new unitec rods
nyslebet krumtap= new grinded cranck
nye lejer= new bearing
bronce bøsninger monteret til t1 lyfter= bronze bushing made for type1 lifters
slr lyfter= slr lifters
bøsninger i blok til t1 pindbolte monteret= bushing in case fore type1 stud pattern
fk knast anden kan monteres= fk cam another can be put in if you like
nyt knasthjul= new cam gear
kemisk renset blok =cemical cleaned block

The case is put toghether so put youre type 1 cyl and heads on and you have a long block

Frallan has a type4 200mm flywheel and clutch for sale on the lounge
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18573.msg265411.html#msg265411



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 20:17:57 pm
Thankyou John,it does look like good value for money,but I would proberly only use the case and bearings,maybe the crank depending on what size under it is,the same with that type 4,its good value and would cost lots more to buy those parts,but doesnt fit my criteria,its already to much money.

I now have a few cars I am interested in,a couple on ebay that I will keep an eye,if they stay reasonable I will bid on something,then there will be no going back :o

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 10, 2012, 20:40:51 pm
Oyvind,
[hope I spelt that correct?]

Can you give me a rough idea on cost for all the work needed to a wbx case to make it usable inc type1 head stud pattern and what do you do about the lack of oil capacity? dry sump isnt in the budget ? how difficult are main bearings to get? I know of one thats been done to type 4 mains,rear thrust,type 1 lifters,decked,flange crank still 4inch bore and it seems alot of money and seems difficult to get actually done,there are other anomilalies as well like front seal,pulley etc,fitting tin,if I got some of this wrong please let me know,nothing is not being considered at the moment[well except type 4 :D ]

cheers richie


I see John already have a example of what it may cost, so I think I leave that. But it comes down to how much you are able to do yourself in the end. For me I think it would only be machining the barrels and the holes in the case for the barrels I would have to pay for. I would choose to use a set of heads that comes with the wbx stud pattern.
When VW made the wbx engine, they took all their experience from type 1 and type 4 engine and made the best of both worlds. They went back to the type 1 case design, but made it in aluminium for better durability. Added the integrated oil filter, a larger oil sump, stronger crank, better flywheel mount design, better flywheel thrust design, larger clutch disk etc. My point is, you get a lot for free with the wbx case, which you normally have to add to the Typ1 case.
No problem to get the wbx crank bearings, vwpart, cip1 etc...

But I see your point to go with the type 1 case and off the shelf parts, my thought it was just an idea to save money and get durability ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 10, 2012, 21:33:39 pm
This is really interesting. I'm going to follow this very closely - not that I can build it at the moment, but interesting nevertheless. I'm going to have a go at my fantasy street race car! ;)

I've got a lot of bits already but I'll put down the cost as if I'd got to buy them.

My budget to start with would be:
£2000 - basic car with MOT. Maybe spend a little more and recoup some of the cost by selling parts, or a little less and do some work to make it solid and road legal. Probably a late model, tax exempt 1300 or similar.
£700 - rollcage. RLR cage, fit it yourself. Mild steel, not moly.
£1200 - gearbox. Type 1, ratios I haven't got a clue!
£600 - wheels and tyres. Up to you what you go for, but slicks are a given I would think. Stick them on some cheapy 8 spokes or something to keep the cost down, you may even get lucky and get some on the starting car. I've got a pair of mag Geminis which are nice and light.
£500 - suspension. Torsion bars, shocks, limit straps etc.
£500 - miscelaneous extras - seat, belts, window net etc.

So we're at £5.5k without even thinking about the engine! If I chuck in the 2007cc motor I've got at home then it's cost me £8 grand to run in the mid-12's. :)

Obviously the little motor won't get into the tens unless we "liberate" £500 by selling the 48 Dells and get a turbo (another £2k I reckon with the cam swap figured in), so are we better off getting rid of the motor complete and going for £3500 worth of 2276 and £800 worth of nitrous system? ??? Both seem to be around £9500-£10k! :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 10, 2012, 21:49:36 pm
Oyvind,
[hope I spelt that correct?]

Can you give me a rough idea on cost for all the work needed to a wbx case to make it usable inc type1 head stud pattern and what do you do about the lack of oil capacity? dry sump isnt in the budget ? how difficult are main bearings to get? I know of one thats been done to type 4 mains,rear thrust,type 1 lifters,decked,flange crank still 4inch bore and it seems alot of money and seems difficult to get actually done,there are other anomilalies as well like front seal,pulley etc,fitting tin,if I got some of this wrong please let me know,nothing is not being considered at the moment[well except type 4 :D ]

cheers richie


I see John already have a example of what it may cost, so I think I leave that. But it comes down to how much you are able to do yourself in the end. For me I think it would only be machining the barrels and the holes in the case for the barrels I would have to pay for. I would choose to use a set of heads that comes with the wbx stud pattern.
When VW made the wbx engine, they took all their experience from type 1 and type 4 engine and made the best of both worlds. They went back to the type 1 case design, but made it in aluminium for better durability. Added the integrated oil filter, a larger oil sump, stronger crank, better flywheel mount design, better flywheel thrust design, larger clutch disk etc. My point is, you get a lot for free with the wbx case, which you normally have to add to the Typ1 case.
No problem to get the wbx crank bearings, vwpart, cip1 etc...

But I see your point to go with the type 1 case and off the shelf parts, my thought it was just an idea to save money and get durability ;)

Here is a thread with a very nice oxy boxer http://www.vwnorge.no/index.php/topic,19860.450.html ;)
Now i will not nag about it any more Richie  :-X


Berger :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 22:09:06 pm
This is really interesting. I'm going to follow this very closely - not that I can build it at the moment, but interesting nevertheless. I'm going to have a go at my fantasy street race car! ;)

I've got a lot of bits already but I'll put down the cost as if I'd got to buy them.

My budget to start with would be:
£2000 - basic car with MOT. Maybe spend a little more and recoup some of the cost by selling parts, or a little less and do some work to make it solid and road legal. Probably a late model, tax exempt 1300 or similar.

Yep about there as well,figure a good running car will liberate a sellable engine  £350 maybe?  and gearbox £200 ?  

£700 - rollcage. RLR cage, fit it yourself. Mild steel, not moly.

for me chromoly and get soemone like hausers to bend the main hoop and front bars and halo bar,then do the rest myself,similar budget

£1200 - gearbox. Type 1, ratios I haven't got a clue!
proberly a little more than that,will try to find a used box and have it freshened up


£600 - wheels and tyres. Up to you what you go for, but slicks are a given I would think. Stick them on some cheapy 8 spokes or something to keep the cost down, you may even get lucky and get some on the starting car. I've got a pair of mag Geminis which are nice and light.

thinking around 750 as need 6 wheels
£500 - suspension. Torsion bars, shocks, limit straps etc.
£500 - miscelaneous extras - seat, belts, window net etc.

yes about right

So we're at £5.5k without even thinking about the engine! If I chuck in the 2007cc motor I've got at home then it's cost me £8 grand to run in the mid-12's. :)

Obviously the little motor won't get into the tens unless we "liberate" £500 by selling the 48 Dells and get a turbo (another £2k I reckon with the cam swap figured in), so are we better off getting rid of the motor complete and going for £3500 worth of 2276 and £800 worth of nitrous system? ??? Both seem to be around £9500-£10k! :o


Thanks Neil
I am hoping to keep it under 10k,but we shall see

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2012, 22:12:34 pm
Oyvind,
[hope I spelt that correct?]

Can you give me a rough idea on cost for all the work needed to a wbx case to make it usable inc type1 head stud pattern and what do you do about the lack of oil capacity? dry sump isnt in the budget ? how difficult are main bearings to get? I know of one thats been done to type 4 mains,rear thrust,type 1 lifters,decked,flange crank still 4inch bore and it seems alot of money and seems difficult to get actually done,there are other anomilalies as well like front seal,pulley etc,fitting tin,if I got some of this wrong please let me know,nothing is not being considered at the moment[well except type 4 :D ]

cheers richie


I see John already have a example of what it may cost, so I think I leave that. But it comes down to how much you are able to do yourself in the end. For me I think it would only be machining the barrels and the holes in the case for the barrels I would have to pay for. I would choose to use a set of heads that comes with the wbx stud pattern.
When VW made the wbx engine, they took all their experience from type 1 and type 4 engine and made the best of both worlds. They went back to the type 1 case design, but made it in aluminium for better durability. Added the integrated oil filter, a larger oil sump, stronger crank, better flywheel mount design, better flywheel thrust design, larger clutch disk etc. My point is, you get a lot for free with the wbx case, which you normally have to add to the Typ1 case.
No problem to get the wbx crank bearings, vwpart, cip1 etc...

But I see your point to go with the type 1 case and off the shelf parts, my thought it was just an idea to save money and get durability ;)

Here is a thread with a very nice oxy boxer http://www.vwnorge.no/index.php/topic,19860.450.html ;)
Now i will not nag about it any more Richie  :-X


Berger :)
Cant any of you post a link I can actually read and understand :D  I did find a way to translate a thread on there before,just got to remember how,any clues?


 and dont stop,maybe after this I will do a thread on the most expensive way to run 10s :o ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 10, 2012, 22:18:09 pm

 and dont stop,maybe after this I will do a thread on the most expensive way to run 10s :o ;D

cheers richie

That's easy, isn't a Bugatti Veyron something like £850,000? :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 10, 2012, 22:37:56 pm
Oyvind,
[hope I spelt that correct?]

Can you give me a rough idea on cost for all the work needed to a wbx case to make it usable inc type1 head stud pattern and what do you do about the lack of oil capacity? dry sump isnt in the budget ? how difficult are main bearings to get? I know of one thats been done to type 4 mains,rear thrust,type 1 lifters,decked,flange crank still 4inch bore and it seems alot of money and seems difficult to get actually done,there are other anomilalies as well like front seal,pulley etc,fitting tin,if I got some of this wrong please let me know,nothing is not being considered at the moment[well except type 4 :D ]

cheers richie


I see John already have a example of what it may cost, so I think I leave that. But it comes down to how much you are able to do yourself in the end. For me I think it would only be machining the barrels and the holes in the case for the barrels I would have to pay for. I would choose to use a set of heads that comes with the wbx stud pattern.
When VW made the wbx engine, they took all their experience from type 1 and type 4 engine and made the best of both worlds. They went back to the type 1 case design, but made it in aluminium for better durability. Added the integrated oil filter, a larger oil sump, stronger crank, better flywheel mount design, better flywheel thrust design, larger clutch disk etc. My point is, you get a lot for free with the wbx case, which you normally have to add to the Typ1 case.
No problem to get the wbx crank bearings, vwpart, cip1 etc...

But I see your point to go with the type 1 case and off the shelf parts, my thought it was just an idea to save money and get durability ;)

Here is a thread with a very nice oxy boxer http://www.vwnorge.no/index.php/topic,19860.450.html ;)
Now i will not nag about it any more Richie  :-X


Berger :)
Cant any of you post a link I can actually read and understand :D  I did find a way to translate a thread on there before,just got to remember how,any clues?


 and dont stop,maybe after this I will do a thread on the most expensive way to run 10s :o ;D

cheers richie
Here you go. You have been to Norway so many times, I thought there was no problem with the language..  ;D
http://translate.google.no/translate?hl=no&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vwnorge.no%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C19860.450.html


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: kev d on July 10, 2012, 23:01:37 pm
So I have been rummaging around through old shite in boxes,so far I have found the old header,the intake manifolds[heads are long gone] the cam[was swapped out when I went turbo] and I still have the nitrous set up,but want to do it with whats available now so proberly wont use it

Fonz can I have my gearbox and throttle bodies back?  :D

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

Kev you dont need that crank/flywheel and rods for a while do you?

I do actually still know were alot of it is but that would defeat the object of this if I do it.


Had a clear out bud, all gone.. :o
Good thread though!


Mmmm a wet miserable rainy day isnt good for the bank account :o

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jon on July 11, 2012, 10:07:00 am
Cool thread Mr Webb.

Doing 10's on the cheap... And drive home. The triangle of speed sais no. But can it be done? ... I think that depends on what YOU mean by cheap.

Most things in life ends up costing more in the long run when you dont have the needed money up front.
Maybe supercharged engines dont follow this logic?
But if someone think they might, what base engine would give tens most reliable?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on July 11, 2012, 10:27:04 am
It is indeed a cool idea and one that will interest most everybody because as JHU put it: the triangle says no, however....
what cannot be underestimated here is the VAST knowledge Mr. Webb has with this subject. I think knowing 'exactly' what's neccesary and what not, is key here.
That experience is worth at least 5-10K alone  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on July 11, 2012, 11:09:14 am
this will definitely be a thread to follow
a cheap busbox conversion (stock ratios/no nosecone swap) would be very interesting
just for the fun of it, try a couple of runs without the bottle/slicks/stinger (real street trim), should do a 12??? 
i really like wbx conversions and have done a few, but if you dont take advantage of the bigger bore (at least 97), its better to stick to an aluminum type 1 case, heads will be much easier to get


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 11:52:52 am
Cool thread Mr Webb.

Doping 10's on the cheap... And drive home. The triangle of speed sais no. But can it be done? ... I think that depends on what YOU mean by cheap.

Most things in life ends up costing more in the long run when you have the needed money up front.
Maybe supercharged engines dont follow this logic?
But if someone think they might, what base engine would give tens most reliable?

I know how much it will cost,as that figure is all I have to spend :) so i may have to do a little wheeling and dealing to get there,and yes cheap is a relative word,I think I could run 12s for less than 5000pounds,but it would be a very light car and not suitable to run 10s, carefull planning should help achieve this but we will see.

My ultimate aim will be to leave the race car at home next august and drive to norway,while I am there on holiday I will see if there is any local racing,if there is they maybe go to the track and see if I can do it there,any ideas? ;D

maybe that is not achivable in the time scale but I will try and then who knows

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 11:59:30 am
It is indeed a cool idea and one that will interest most everybody because as JHU put it: the triangle says no, however....
what cannot be underestimated here is the VAST knowledge Mr. Webb has with this subject. I think knowing 'exactly' what's neccesary and what not, is key here.
That experience is worth at least 5-10K alone  ;)

Walter

that is what I am hoping,I know you to set your aims for a 10 sec car,but I wont handicap myself but trying to make it go round corners,as long as it goes round roundabouts that will be good enough for me :)

I know what it needs from my experiences before,but back then it was a gradual evolution,this time I need to be straight on it,a couple of shakedown passes then open the bottle and hope I got it right,also some of the parts i used back then arent available anymore,hopefully there are other suitable parts but I wont know until I try them.
Also I wont be using a cabrio,so less weight to handicap me,but will that help or will it cause more problems getting the power down?

cheers richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 11, 2012, 12:00:23 pm
Cool thread Mr Webb.

Doping 10's on the cheap... And drive home. The triangle of speed sais no. But can it be done? ... I think that depends on what YOU mean by cheap.

Most things in life ends up costing more in the long run when you have the needed money up front.
Maybe supercharged engines dont follow this logic?
But if someone think they might, what base engine would give tens most reliable?

I know how much it will cost,as that figure is all I have to spend :) so i may have to do a little wheeling and dealing to get there,and yes cheap is a relative word,I think I could run 12s for less than 5000pounds,but it would be a very light car and not suitable to run 10s, carefull planning should help achieve this but we will see.

My ultimate aim will be to leave the race car at home next august and drive to norway,while I am there on holiday I will see if there is any local racing,if there is they maybe go to the track and see if I can do it there,any ideas? ;D

maybe that is not achivable in the time scale but I will try and then who knows

cheers richie


10s debut on SCC2013?  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 12:06:53 pm
this will definitely be a thread to follow
a cheap busbox conversion (stock ratios/no nosecone swap) would be very interesting
just for the fun of it, try a couple of runs without the bottle/slicks/stinger (real street trim), should do a 12??? 
i really like wbx conversions and have done a few, but if you dont take advantage of the bigger bore (at least 97), its better to stick to an aluminum type 1 case, heads will be much easier to get
Karl

thats my thought as well,I dont think a 4inch engine will be economically viable,the heads alone cost to much and are so difficult to get in common castings[comp elims for example]

As i am not trying to build the best N/A engine it isnt so important,the 94bore stuff will do what I want,and keeps it more in line with what most people can relate to with there own cars.
I  will proberly use a mag case as well as I know it up to the task.

I will do a couple of passes as I drove it to the track to get the car set up right before trying to run a good number :)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 12:08:38 pm
Cool thread Mr Webb.

Doping 10's on the cheap... And drive home. The triangle of speed sais no. But can it be done? ... I think that depends on what YOU mean by cheap.

Most things in life ends up costing more in the long run when you have the needed money up front.
Maybe supercharged engines dont follow this logic?
But if someone think they might, what base engine would give tens most reliable?

I know how much it will cost,as that figure is all I have to spend :) so i may have to do a little wheeling and dealing to get there,and yes cheap is a relative word,I think I could run 12s for less than 5000pounds,but it would be a very light car and not suitable to run 10s, carefull planning should help achieve this but we will see.

My ultimate aim will be to leave the race car at home next august and drive to norway,while I am there on holiday I will see if there is any local racing,if there is they maybe go to the track and see if I can do it there,any ideas? ;D

maybe that is not achivable in the time scale but I will try and then who knows

cheers richie


10s debut on SCC2013?  ;D

Testing on the autobarn on the way,sounds like fun :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 11, 2012, 12:11:56 pm
Cool thread Mr Webb.

Doping 10's on the cheap... And drive home. The triangle of speed sais no. But can it be done? ... I think that depends on what YOU mean by cheap.

Most things in life ends up costing more in the long run when you have the needed money up front.
Maybe supercharged engines dont follow this logic?
But if someone think they might, what base engine would give tens most reliable?

I know how much it will cost,as that figure is all I have to spend :) so i may have to do a little wheeling and dealing to get there,and yes cheap is a relative word,I think I could run 12s for less than 5000pounds,but it would be a very light car and not suitable to run 10s, carefull planning should help achieve this but we will see.

My ultimate aim will be to leave the race car at home next august and drive to norway,while I am there on holiday I will see if there is any local racing,if there is they maybe go to the track and see if I can do it there,any ideas? ;D

maybe that is not achivable in the time scale but I will try and then who knows

cheers richie


10s debut on SCC2013?  ;D

Testing on the autobarn on the way,sounds like fun :o

Kudos if you frive it all the way, do a couple of 10s passes and drive it home again!  :D

You should add a stereo for the trip :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chris bugster on July 11, 2012, 12:21:19 pm
Hi Richie
Does it have to be a Bug? A good Bug is expensive. How about a Fiat 126? They are cheap here, about $100 and light, ours weighs 650kg with full cage and IRS box and Ali cased stroker. It could easily go much lighter.

BTW- Richie, do you still have my Berg shifter in your Cabrio? Any chance of getting it back?  :P


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 12:35:20 pm
Hi Richie
Does it have to be a Bug? A good Bug is expensive. How about a Fiat 126? They are cheap here, about $100 and light, ours weighs 650kg with full cage and IRS box and Ali cased stroker. It could easily go much lighter.

BTW- Richie, do you still have my Berg shifter in your Cabrio? Any chance of getting it back?  :P

Yes it has to be a VW :),and not sure what shifter you are talking about,the one in the cabrio has been in there since 96 when I bought it from bergs way before I knew any of you?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chris bugster on July 11, 2012, 13:04:16 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Richie. After I rolled my 1303, Max asked me if ''Richie'' could borrow my shifter and I thought he meant you, but it must have been someone else. Good luck with the project.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 13:14:53 pm
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Richie. After I rolled my 1303, Max asked me if ''Richie'' could borrow my shifter and I thought he meant you, but it must have been someone else. Good luck with the project.

No idea Chris,I only know the story of your 1303 ;),nothing more

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Wunder Wim on July 11, 2012, 19:20:02 pm
Hi Richie

maybe this is what you are looking for...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1246938

Wim


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 19:34:28 pm
Thanks I did notice that today,but the ratios are to short to run 10s with the mph needed,shame as its a good price

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on July 11, 2012, 20:13:41 pm
What 60ft, 1/8 time and 1/4 mph do you think you need Richie?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2012, 21:43:11 pm
Walter

From memory the old cabs best nitrous 60ft was 1.48[only once though,the 10s were 1.50s] 6.96 1/8 mile and 10.88@125mph in 2003,only just realised it will be 10s years next year since I did it  :)

I think I can get it to 60ft mid 1.40s now so hopefully 6.70s 1/8 and 10.?? 1/4[dont want to jinx myslef with those goals yet ;)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 12, 2012, 09:06:50 am
What 60ft, 1/8 time and 1/4 mph do you think you need Richie?

Now were talking! Only a car with lots of hp can somewhat make up for a poor start. Look at the white Bello (spell check) Porsche 911 with 1000+ hp as a example, low 10's and high 9's with VERY soft launches. Besides, a nitrous car do have its advantage in the start and will never have the top end speed of a turbo monster.

1.40 - 1.45 should be possible without spending a fortune.

-BB-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jesse/DVK on July 12, 2012, 09:18:39 am
Very cool thread! Will be following this to help my own bug getting faster :).

So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 10:07:19 am


 Besides, a nitrous car do have its advantage in the start and will never have the top end speed of a turbo monster.

1.40 - 1.45 should be possible without spending a fortune.

-BB-


2 stages? i havent tried it but its something I will consider later on,and I agree those 60fts should be possible,mabye quicker with devolpment,there is a Nitrous pan car running low 1.30s over here,and I am sure it went 1.30s before the bars were added,getting the weight down by about 95kg or 200lbs from th eold cab should really help

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 12, 2012, 10:08:35 am
So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver  ;D

Apart from luck you need a good strip, two good tires, the correct tire pressure, just enough clutch, a well planed rear suspension and enough hp.

BB


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on July 12, 2012, 11:30:06 am
i think this is everybody's new favorite topic.
looking forward to the end result.

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 12, 2012, 11:54:42 am
i think this is everybody's new favorite topic.
henk!!!

Agree! Who cares about expensive, vintage shit, show'n shine and old car clubs when you can drive 10's 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 12:09:29 pm
I think I found the right donor car,will be looking at it this weekend,if its as described then I will be dragging it home soon ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 12, 2012, 16:42:31 pm
Hi Richie,

Once you have worked out what it takes, for fecks sake let me know as no matter what I do or how much I spend. I'm still stuck in the 12's darn it !!!!    ::)  ;D

Cheers,

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 17:57:06 pm
Hi Richie,

Once you have worked out what it takes, for fecks sake let me know as no matter what I do or how much I spend. I'm still stuck in the 12's darn it !!!!    ::)  ;D

Cheers,

Shane.


thats your own silly fault  ::) TAKE OFF THE BELT AND ADD NITROUS ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 18:41:40 pm

thats your own silly fault for listening to Danny  ::) TAKE OFF THE BELT AND ADD LOTS OF NITROUS ;D

Fixed it for you :D


Shane I do plan on sharing my findings,however good or bad they are, and your car is a perfect example of one that could see huge improvements with gas

Now while this isnt totally apples to apples comparission as 3rd and 4th gear ratio were changed between,

but my cabrio ran bext of 13.27 N/A against the 10.88 with nitrous,is that a big enough improvement for you? :o ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 12, 2012, 19:08:14 pm
I'm looking forward to this build,

Wishing my Wiseco's were nitrous versions now :o

Out of interest what were the gear ratios in the cab with the nitrous motor?

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 19:24:22 pm
my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend :) :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 12, 2012, 19:47:52 pm

thats your own silly fault for listening to Danny  ::) TAKE OFF THE BELT AND ADD LOTS OF NITROUS ;D

Fixed it for you :D


Shane I do plan on sharing my findings,however good or bad they are, and your car is a perfect example of one that could see huge improvements with gas

Now while this isnt totally apples to apples comparission as 3rd and 4th gear ratio were changed between,

but my cabrio ran bext of 13.27 N/A against the 10.88 with nitrous,is that a big enough improvement for you? :o ;D

cheers richie

I remember how frustrated you were when your cab with the JMR 2332 was only making 13.2's but didn't you re-work that 2332 and as you say tailored the gear ratios's to better suit ...? Surely your saying you took a 190 - 200 hp motor that ran 13.2 changed the gear ratios added a typical 50-60 shot of NOS and bingo your in the 10.8's ???  If that is what your saying then freakin awesome and pass me the blue bottle now  :o  ;D

Danny, will you quit with the no belt and NOS already  :D I will do one day mate  ;)

 Seriously back to Richie's original quest but with a slight twist - how much N/A bhp and Torque does it take to propel a factory weight Beetle into the 11's and the 10's with conventional T1 transmission allowing a close 3rd and 4th of any combination and a choice from 4.37 / 4.12 / 3.88 factory spec final drives.....???

Cheers,

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 20:06:21 pm
You need to read back abit for the nitrous shot needed :o your way off

Seriously the original 2332 was way to slow for me,never even went near that 13.27,so I bought a kit and it went high 12s,then with a few tweeks 12.05 best[remembr the 5th gear episode against the bentley? ] then we made a couple of changes to the cam and heads and went 11.5 still with the old gearbox,at USC that year I broke the stock 1st gear when I messed up with a sportsman tree against the pro tree I was expecting,we changed the ratios and put a mainshaft in it,next meeting 11.12 best,just from the ratio changes,then next meet into the 10s
Thats a simplified version

As to how much hp needed to run 11s n/a and 10s n/a,there are so many variables I couldnt accurately answer,I think you need about 300hp to run 10s off the top of my head,but thats only a guesstimate,about 210 to run 11s,but the ratios would be a pig on the street

Danny can you refresh my memory as to how much your car weighs for comparission?


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 20:09:06 pm
I'm looking forward to this build,

Wishing my Wiseco's were nitrous versions now :o

Out of interest what were the gear ratios in the cab with the nitrous motor?

Lee

Lee I can only remember 1st and 4th 3.78 and 1.12 with a 3.88 R&P,I would guess that it was around a 2.20 2nd and 1.50 3rd

and I ran about 80hp on mahles so the wisecos will take a bit ;)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 20:12:05 pm
760kgs with driver 690 without :-[  shane you know im only messing with you  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 20:22:16 pm
my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend :) :)

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 12, 2012, 21:05:46 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 12, 2012, 21:13:37 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 12, 2012, 21:19:45 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.


I really should weigh it ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on July 12, 2012, 21:22:59 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.
I think I will be very silent now and craw away with tail between legs...(although the Volvo weight does somewhat ring a bell  :D )


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 21:33:54 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Micheal I dont think you car weighed as much as dannys when I did the calcs for that,heres my guesstimate

385hp@1600lbs=9.36@143mph seriously that whats the most accurate 1/4 mile calc I know makes it

The calc for old cab when I ran the 9.23 says i should have run 9.14 and you never have a perfect run so it is pretty close

You might want to think about some race clothing amongst other things :o

cheers richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 21:36:07 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Unless you're driving with your brakes on AND your car weight the same as a Volvo station wagon you should be deep into the 10's.
I think I will be very silent now and craw away with tail between legs...(although the Volvo weight does somewhat ring a bell  :D )

You are excused for having all that extra stuff needed to go round bends ;)

What does it weigh? and how much hp? and how many gear changes? do you need 5th gear on the strip?

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 12, 2012, 21:50:34 pm
So what you are saying is that with the 385hp I have now I should do 10s?That is with a proper gearbox of course. ;D

Michael

Micheal I dont think you car weighed as much as dannys when I did the calcs for that,heres my guesstimate

385hp@1600lbs=9.36@143mph seriously that whats the most accurate 1/4 mile calc I know makes it

The calc for old cab when I ran the 9.23 says i should have run 9.14 and you never have a perfect run so it is pretty close

You might want to think about some race clothing amongst other things :o

cheers richie



That's way faster then I thought and I'm trying to get it faster ::) :P

Yes clothes is the next thing on my list. It's on the fifth page I think ;D ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 22:05:10 pm
10.88/123mph@2150lbs=335hp
335hp@1800lbs=10.20@131mph

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 12, 2012, 22:10:48 pm
my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend :) :)

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s ;D

cheers richie

Yeah sorry Richie, I was being a bit lazy and didn't read from the start of the thread ( been away all week and only back online today  :D )

Danny. I know mate , I'm only teasing  ;)

Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 80 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time  ???

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 22:31:59 pm
my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend :) :)

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s ;D

cheers richie

i reckon my engine makes about 200-205 with the belt off n/a so with a 60 shot that should put me in the tens then ?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2012, 22:58:46 pm
my car ran 11.8 n/a,  30 shot of nitrous 11.45 so it does make massive improvements for a small amount of money cant wait to see what another 30 hp of gas does this weekend :) :)

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s ;D

cheers richie

i reckon my engine makes about 200-205 with the belt off n/a so with a 60 shot that should put me in the tens then ?

those calcs are for your engine,thats what it is making at the moment,are what its making use of,I think you will be really close but need a little more


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 23:16:35 pm
thats fine i think they make bigger jets  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 12, 2012, 23:25:16 pm
Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 12, 2012, 23:28:55 pm
i put all the info for your car into calculator shane and it said somthing about fan belt and nitrous :-\ :-\ ???


 ;D ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jesse/DVK on July 13, 2012, 08:19:28 am
So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver  ;D

Apart from luck you need a good strip, two good tires, the correct tire pressure, just enough clutch, a well planed rear suspension and enough hp.

BB

Could you tell me more about the rear suspension? What mods make it take off and go somewhere? Traction bar, midmount?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 08:30:20 am
Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.
I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 09:06:07 am
Also Shane going on that weight, a 60shot of nitrous added to you car like danny is planning on using this weekend drops it to 11.13@120mph and adding 12hp for taking off the belt is 10.98@122.07 :o

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 13, 2012, 10:42:22 am
Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.
I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie

That's a good idea about the scales. My terminal is 105 / 106 mph with a 12.57  - 12.61 ET


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 13, 2012, 11:46:03 am
So Beetlebug what does it take to get such 60ft times? Apart from being a good driver  ;D

Apart from luck you need a good strip, two good tires, the correct tire pressure, just enough clutch, a well planed rear suspension and enough hp.

BB

Could you tell me more about the rear suspension? What mods make it take off and go somewhere? Traction bar, midmount?

First off, I'm using the Moroso power "calculator" and I trust it 100%. If I'm not close (and I'm not) them something is wrong and I know exactly what it is.

I think everyone can agree that the by far most important thing when dragracing is the start. Get it wrong and you might as well cruise to the finish line. This is where a experienced driver like Richie have a BIG advantage, he knows the tricks to get a car to leave the lights in a effective way even though he spent years lifting the front wheels 

There are many roads to a good rear suspension and I believe that there is no definitive answer. What works on one car might not work on your car. Trond D showed us all that a stock oval suspension with adjustable shocks and a solid mounted gearbox managed a 1.47 60ft at last year SCC. This was with a 300+ hp turbo engine, KEP 3 and a black magic. You can see that launch in his avatar picture. Tires was MH DOT's.



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 12:34:28 pm
Ok as for my bugs weight,to be honest I have no idea !! What does an all steel and glass 57 oval weigh from the factory ? Then remove stock interior and shove in one of Jim's Cro-moly chassis tied cages 6 pointer with ally panelling and single bucket seat and harness etc.....I'm guessing weight around 800-850 kgs ? I weight 83 kgs.

The motor in street trim made 212 bhp the other week and 177 ft/lbs on rolling road.  Best ET to date is 12.57 but the other week only made 12.72 and has run several 12.6's.

I keep meaning to get over to a public weighbridge but never seem to get time 

So what does the magic formula say.......

Cheers, Shane.
I have corner weight scales I can bring to the track next time we are both there Shane and see what it weighs race ready if you want? for now lets say 1900lbs,proberly not that heavy but gives us a starting point
212hp @1900lbs=12.10@110.74mph  how does that mph compare? as that the best indication of hp

cheers richie

That's a good idea about the scales. My terminal is 105 / 106 mph with a 12.57  - 12.61 ET

Shane

what 4th gear ratio do you have? with a 3.88 ring and pinion I pressume? and what size rear tyres? we can figure out mph over the finish line and see how far of the gear ratio is

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 12:56:43 pm
I think everyone can agree that the by far most important thing when dragracing is the start. Get it wrong and you might as well cruise to the finish line. This is where a experienced driver like Richie have a BIG advantage, he knows the tricks to get a car to leave the lights in a effective way even though he spent years lifting the front wheels



Seat time is proberly worth a whole second,seriously from the 1st pass with a new combination to getting the best from that same combination there is a second to be gained at least

This is where the sreet car is such an advantage,just driving the car regularly gets you more familiar with everything,and lets be honest everyone does the occasional practice launch on a quiet street[or not so quiet sometimes]  ;)

And yes lots of seat time gives you the infomation to set the car up better,what rpm does it like on launch?how much clutch grip is needed?what setting for the shocks,front and rear,tyre pressure is so overlooked as well.

Also wheelies help,well in a round about sort of way,its easier to calm down the launch with less rpm or more tyre pressure than it is to get a car to grip that spins the tyres.



 There are many roads to a good rear suspension and I believe that there is no definitive answer. What works on one car might not work on your car. Trond D showed us all that a stock oval suspension with adjustable shocks and a solid mounted gearbox managed a 1.47 60ft at last year SCC. This was with a 300+ hp turbo engine, KEP 3 and a black magic. You can see that launch in his avatar picture. Tires was MH DOT's.


[/quote

That there is very impressive,will it do it regularly?who knows,hopefully Trond will and he will get faster :)  His car seems to have a very simple set up,but it works,but it wouldnt work on a N/A car[to much clutch,it would just bog]

My suspension was so simple,its easy to overthink or overspend it ::)  1st gear ratio is also super important,and often overlooked


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 13, 2012, 14:33:19 pm
Shane

what 4th gear ratio do you have? with a 3.88 ring and pinion I pressume? and what size rear tyres? we can figure out mph over the finish line and see how far of the gear ratio is

cheers richie

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 16:06:12 pm
I just noticed my viewing Shanes reply took the view total to 2276,so thats what the engine size will be 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Trond Dahl on July 13, 2012, 18:54:07 pm
I did do a few more good 60fts but people only seem to notice the one that brought me into a high 10 :-) I would need more of them to call it consistent though.
It would be nice to repeat this year @ SCC but going from a thin to a proper cage has added a lot of weight. So we will see what happens.
The reason for the heavy clutch is actually due to not slipping on the dynapack which stage 2 did...
After that I just ran it as it was, but there is no doubt that a heavy black magic and stage3 is far too much clutch...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: mrmut on July 13, 2012, 19:41:49 pm

11.8@1672lbs = 201hp
11.45@1672lbs=220hp

so 250hp=10.97@122.08mph

Realistically you will proberly need another 15hp to actually see the 10s,but your gearbox changes may make a difference as well

Shane you got weight and hp for your car? I will see what the magic ball says you need to add for 10s ;D

cheers richie

I have a 204 HP engine, power realizes the 5000rpm max 6500 rpm Weight 750kg or 1653lbs my 1/4mile time was 12.2 s with stock gearbox IRS with 205/65/15 tires.
I think if the same HP to achieve at higher rpm 7000 or 7500 that the time of 1/4mile will lessen about 1.5 s


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 21:00:05 pm
So heres where I am with this idea

Looking at a car this weekend,if its as described then it will be perfect

Cage,got a good price for a pre bent kit,and am waiting to see what it costs to fit with me helping

Gearbox,got all the details and ratios worked out,got a single side cover irs swap meet box as a donor

Engine specs less heads all worked out,will be scanning the for sale adds for a bargain on the heads,then be able to be sure on the valvetrain, found a deal on a welded stroker crank with flywheel, a good used case already opened up for 94s and stroke clearanced so that will be the basis of it

Been talking to a nitrous company about what is best for this as its been 10 years since I last was up to date with the latest and greatest gizmos and things have moved on since then
and no one does a aircooled vw kit that I know of,last time I kind of put it together myself

Lots left to work out & find,but a good start


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 21:09:08 pm

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.


Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 13, 2012, 21:13:36 pm
I did do a few more good 60fts but people only seem to notice the one that brought me into a high 10 :-) I would need more of them to call it consistent though.
It would be nice to repeat this year @ SCC but going from a thin to a proper cage has added a lot of weight. So we will see what happens.
The reason for the heavy clutch is actually due to not slipping on the dynapack which stage 2 did...
After that I just ran it as it was, but there is no doubt that a heavy black magic and stage3 is far too much clutch...

Nice so a little tuning and it could 60ft around there regularly,how much weight do you think the cage added? did you tie it to the frame forks? it might actually help the 60fts by making the car stiffer and getting the suspension working better

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 13, 2012, 21:36:42 pm
Looks like you got yourself a lot of work. Curious on how you are going to make it go straight.I reckon you rely on the vw basic set up uprated with some good shocks?

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 13, 2012, 22:39:56 pm

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.


Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least

Pretty sure cross the line around 6500 - will try and observe this weekend up the pod. If your going let me know and bring the scales  ;)

Cheers Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 14, 2012, 08:23:25 am
Looks like you got yourself a lot of work. Curious on how you are going to make it go straight.I reckon you rely on the vw basic set up uprated with some good shocks?

Michael

That is something I didnt have a problem with,with the cab I used mildly uprated torsion bars& urethane bushings in the back with koni shocks,and comp engineering front shocks,drop spindles and adjusters with phoenix 6w slicks.
A CSP trapeze bar and berg traction bar with intermidiate gearbox mount with the other mods as the cage didnt go to the frame forks.

Using the nitrous controller to soften the hit off the line and bring it in progressively as I went up the track really helped,getting that right is another trick that only track time will reveal
 

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 14, 2012, 08:39:53 am

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.


Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least

Pretty sure cross the line around 6500 - will try and observe this weekend up the pod. If your going let me know and bring the scales  ;)

Cheers Shane.

Will do,only thing i am not sure of there is the tyre diameter,its listed as 26 tall but I thought it was taller than that,if its 26" then it looks like 1.21 with 4.12 is to short for 11s unless you turn some real high rpm which isnt needed with an engine that size








Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 14, 2012, 08:56:12 am
Can rain stop please need to prove calculator wrong lol:-)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 14, 2012, 11:00:30 am
Can rain stop please need to prove calculator wrong lol:-)

you have more chance turning it upside down and using a paddle looking at the pod webcam,my day wont be wasted though as we are off to look at the 1st potential project car 8)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 14, 2012, 11:12:43 am

Richie, my final drive is 4.12 and my 4th gear is a but of a mystery as Pete couldn't recall what he fitted. I asked for a 1.21 but I'm not sure it's that close. Doesn't feel that close and I have run 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 previously.

My tyres are MH DOT's 215 / 60

Cheers

Shane.


Wow thats short,if it has that 4th in it then it tops out at 111mph@7000rpm,what rpm do you turn? I would be running a 3.88 with that at least

Pretty sure cross the line around 6500 - will try and observe this weekend up the pod. If your going let me know and bring the scales  ;)

Cheers Shane.

Will do,only thing i am not sure of there is the tyre diameter,its listed as 26 tall but I thought it was taller than that,if its 26" then it looks like 1.21 with 4.12 is to short for 11s unless you turn some real high rpm which isnt needed with an engine that size







That's interesting feedback on the ratios, The reason I went 4.12 is for potentially quicker launch in a heavy car. I had a 1.21 4th with a 3.88 R+P in my factory 80's mexibug and it always seemed slower to launch and no I couldn't even get a 1.8 60ft !!

Due to inclement weather today, I'll be at pod tomorrow from 8am and we can check tyre diameter on he DOT's.....

Hope the project car you view today works out, if not how about a nice 57 oval with Cotsweld cage  ;) I know a fair bloke that has one he might part with  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 09:21:07 am
We have a donor :)  it is a little rough in places,needs a heater channel outer on one side at least and a couple of bumper mounts,I will proberly put a whole channel in as i am sure there more rust hidden underneath,the doors have suffered from sitting outside for so long unused but hopefully therer are to many hidden horrors as it hasnt had years of being "fixed' by welding plate over plate.
It is a 6v 1500 so should have some usefull pieces to sell off as well,and came with a new pair of disc drop spindles soem something else i dont need to buy


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 15, 2012, 09:31:23 am
Nice find Richie. How complete was it? How about splitting the thread now so that you've got a build diary with costings in the In Da Werks section and the discussion here?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on July 15, 2012, 09:32:00 am
Price?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 15, 2012, 12:32:11 pm
shoulg I bring my welding helmet? ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 15, 2012, 13:09:17 pm
Nice base car there. Hope you are not going to paint it (saves money and weight!!)

I'm more and more interested in this nitrous stuff every time I view this thread. I'd be interested in a complete break down of everything required to run a bit of gas.

Is it easier with efi over IDA's?

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 15, 2012, 13:15:34 pm
Euro '67 1500!

Nice catch :)

I've got the same, and it looks to be the same colour also!

Are you going with repro wings (lighter) ?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 15, 2012, 13:27:20 pm
11.04 so far  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 15, 2012, 17:01:41 pm
11.04 so far  ;)

Well done Danny. What's the mph?

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on July 15, 2012, 17:21:57 pm
 And a 11.38 with the handbrake on  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fasterbrit on July 15, 2012, 17:41:04 pm
11.04 so far  ;)

Keep going matey... Nearly there ;) good work!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 15, 2012, 18:48:53 pm
11.04 so far  ;)

Well done Danny. What's the mph?

Lee


11.04@121.44mph running 50rwhp of nitrous im pretty sur eit will run a 10.99 with this setup as the 60 ft wasnt the best ive done 1.52
as for fitting nitrous to carbs its fairly easy 4 foggers in manifolds i use a controller to bring it in the kit i had cost about 550 quid with a full bottle of gas a cheap way of getting faster  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:24:04 pm
11.04 so far  ;)

We were there watching ;),it looked a really good pass,then next we saw it looked like it bogged 11.20 somthing? then 11.09@119 I think,was a bit of headwind by then

Jo got a couple of good pics of you and one of the timing lights with you on the 11.04 pass

Does your kit use individual jets at the nozzles or single jet at the solenoids?

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:27:27 pm
Nice find Richie. How complete was it? How about splitting the thread now so that you've got a build diary with costings in the In Da Werks section and the discussion here?

All there,some of it is just rubbish or to rusty to use though,not sure how I going to do the thread yet,there enough welding rusty VW threads already in the werks :o ;)

Will pull the engine,put it on the run stand and check it out,if its good sell it on,would be perfect for a bus or similar with the 6v flywheel still,same with the gearbox,anything i dont need I will try to sell to get some money back on 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:28:02 pm
Price?

1200pounds

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:28:37 pm
shoulg I bring my welding helmet? ;D ;D

Michael

Yes,you will be busy ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:31:58 pm
Nice base car there. Hope you are not going to paint it (saves money and weight!!)

I'm more and more interested in this nitrous stuff every time I view this thread. I'd be interested in a complete break down of everything required to run a bit of gas.

Is it easier with efi over IDA's?

Lee

I will proberly just do a sympathetic touch up in places,particularly were I do any repairs

I will show what I am using for the nitrous stuff as we get to it,last tiem i was on the limit of the fuel system so need to do my homework 1st to see what i need,but Danny has given a good example in his reply

The N/A fuelling shouldnt make any difference if it is set up correctly beforehand


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 15, 2012, 19:32:22 pm
11.04 so far  ;)

We were there watching ;),it looked a really good pass,then next we saw it looked like it bogged 11.20 somthing? then 11.09@119 I think,was a bit of headwind by then

Jo got a couple of good pics of you and one of the timing lights with you on the 11.04 pass

Does your kit use individual jets at the nozzles or single jet at the solenoids?

cheers richie

one jet where single lines go into splitters  i was all nervous on the 11.2 as i was worried that the bollinger wouldnt be chilled enough to celebrate my first 10  :D :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:40:56 pm
Euro '67 1500!

Nice catch :)

I've got the same, and it looks to be the same colour also!

Are you going with repro wings (lighter) ?

I will replace the wings,the rears are junk and the front seem to be good genuine vw,if they are then I will sell them as I will lose the indicators from the top,and the horn grill holes so might as well use a repro or fiberglasas wing
They come in this gel coat blue for now

Met up with Rob from East coast manx today and collected the 1st pair of rear wings he has made form his new mold to use on this,he will be doing fronts as well soon,then 68 on as well when he has time


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 19:43:14 pm

one jet where single lines go into splitters  i was all nervous on the 11.2 as i was worried that the bollinger wouldnt be chilled enough to celebrate my first 10  :D :D


Knob :P ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fasterbrit on July 15, 2012, 20:17:48 pm
I still reckon the turbo route would be cheaper in the long run. I'd love to see a cheapo turbo engine run the number without breaking the bank. But, there's still kudos in doing it with n2o. I am just a little biased ;)

Richie, are you going to keep a tab on every single purchase?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tonybone on July 15, 2012, 20:23:40 pm
Danny, nice few runs today,, well done on that 11.04. Car sounds real strong.  :)
That 10 is well within reach now..

Tony ( Thailand)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 20:57:22 pm
I still reckon the turbo route would be cheaper in the long run. I'd love to see a cheapo turbo engine run the number without breaking the bank. But, there's still kudos in doing it with n2o. I am just a little biased ;)

Richie, are you going to keep a tab on every single purchase?

Turbo is easy,we did that already with a cheapy t4,scrapyard injectors,copper pipe fuel rails with penneys soldered in them as end caps,200 pound header,audi tt intercooler,and chrome ex tailpipes as intake runners
10.53 was the best with the type 1 gearbox before it started spitting them out for fun :o ::)


My plan at the moment is to just keep a total on the thread ,rather than every nut bolt and washer etc,but will do a file with everything noted on it so I know where it all went

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 15, 2012, 21:33:52 pm
Euro '67 1500!

Nice catch :)

I've got the same, and it looks to be the same colour also!

Are you going with repro wings (lighter) ?

I will replace the wings,the rears are junk and the front seem to be good genuine vw,if they are then I will sell them as I will lose the indicators from the top,and the horn grill holes so might as well use a repro or fiberglasas wing
They come in this gel coat blue for now

Met up with Rob from East coast manx today and collected the 1st pair of rear wings he has made form his new mold to use on this,he will be doing fronts as well soon,then 68 on as well when he has time

i have a full set of gasser wings here you can have cheap ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 15, 2012, 22:02:18 pm
Didnt we pay for them already?  :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 15, 2012, 22:08:34 pm
Nice car :)
Covert it to IRS or run swingaxle?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 15, 2012, 22:26:52 pm
Didnt we pay for them already?  :o
lol yes i picked em up from dragday for you  do you want me to drop em off at matts


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 08:49:53 am
Didnt we pay for them already?  :o
lol yes i picked em up from dragday for you  do you want me to drop em off at matts

Pete is proberly better if you can

Ta


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 08:50:53 am
Nice car :)
Covert it to IRS or run swingaxle?

IRS,I have seen you other post >:( I am guessing someone crashed

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 16, 2012, 08:54:19 am
Nice car :)
Covert it to IRS or run swingaxle?

IRS,I have seen you other post >:( I am guessing someone crashed

cheers richie

Yes, it`s very sad that Leif rolled with his car this weekend :'( . I think we need to highlight the issue..


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 09:23:57 am
Nice car :)
Covert it to IRS or run swingaxle?

IRS,I have seen you other post >:( I am guessing someone crashed

cheers richie
>:( :(  Thats sh3t,hope he is ok?

Richie

Yes, it`s very sad that Leif rolled with his car this weekend :'( . I think we need to highlight the issue..


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 16, 2012, 09:34:05 am
Nice car :)
Covert it to IRS or run swingaxle?

IRS,I have seen you other post >:( I am guessing someone crashed

cheers richie
>:( :(  Thats sh3t,hope he is ok?

Richie

Yes, it`s very sad that Leif rolled with his car this weekend :'( . I think we need to highlight the issue..

Yes, he is ok


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on July 16, 2012, 10:49:15 am

Changing the steering to where it belongs will cost some time and money ;D

Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on July 16, 2012, 10:55:22 am
When my car is ready, I will drive it with the 2.0ltr type 4 I have laying around (+/-120HP N/A)
I want to add a bottle to it, so all the info is welcome. Do I have to run extra fuellines etc.?
I am still in the building face so if I have to change things (run extra lines and so, now is the time to do it.

Cheers Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 11:00:03 am
When my car is ready, I will drive it with the 2.0ltr type 4 I have laying around (+/-120HP N/A)
I want to add a bottle to it, so all the info is welcome. Do I have to run extra fuellines etc.?
I am still in the building face so if I have to change things (run extra lines and so, now is the time to do it.

Cheers Paul.

I ran a -8 feed and -6 return as needed for the EFI,then a simple T to take off the required fuel for the nitrous system in the engine bay,but as I wrote earlier it was on the limit of fuel supply,but more to do with the pump used than enything else,if building a car from scratch i would always fit 2 fuel lines,you never know when you will want to upgrade later,with a single line carbed ststem I think you want to add another fuel system for the nitrous anyway so yes fit 2 lines at least

cheers richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 16, 2012, 12:51:10 pm

Been talking to a nitrous company about what is best for this as its been 10 years since I last was up to date with the latest and greatest gizmos and things have moved on since then
and no one does a aircooled vw kit that I know of,last time I kind of put it together myself



Would be cool if you, after making this project a success, put together a nitrous kit for the vw engine which is "bolt-on" and made it available to buy :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 14:22:13 pm

Been talking to a nitrous company about what is best for this as its been 10 years since I last was up to date with the latest and greatest gizmos and things have moved on since then
and no one does a aircooled vw kit that I know of,last time I kind of put it together myself



Would be cool if you, after making this project a success, put together a nitrous kit for the vw engine which is "bolt-on" and made it available to buy :)

Oyvind,

I am talking to the nitrous kit manufacturer I used before to do exactly that :),we are figuring out any differences for carbs or efi and with or without a fan shroud,anything else you can think of that we should take into account?

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on July 16, 2012, 21:25:53 pm
When my car is ready, I will drive it with the 2.0ltr type 4 I have laying around (+/-120HP N/A)
I want to add a bottle to it, so all the info is welcome. Do I have to run extra fuellines etc.?
I am still in the building face so if I have to change things (run extra lines and so, now is the time to do it.

Cheers Paul.

I ran a -8 feed and -6 return as needed for the EFI,then a simple T to take off the required fuel for the nitrous system in the engine bay,but as I wrote earlier it was on the limit of fuel supply,but more to do with the pump used than enything else,if building a car from scratch i would always fit 2 fuel lines,you never know when you will want to upgrade later,with a single line carbed ststem I think you want to add another fuel system for the nitrous anyway so yes fit 2 lines at least

cheers richie  


Hi Richie,

The future engine will be EFI so I already installed 2 -8 lines (so I"m good for the NOS on the temp. engine). Please keep us updated on the beetle NOS kit.

Cheers Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: old dub lover on July 16, 2012, 21:38:20 pm
What a great thead :)

i shall keep an eye on this as 10's are what im hoping for in my car :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 16, 2012, 21:39:17 pm

Been talking to a nitrous company about what is best for this as its been 10 years since I last was up to date with the latest and greatest gizmos and things have moved on since then
and no one does a aircooled vw kit that I know of,last time I kind of put it together myself



Would be cool if you, after making this project a success, put together a nitrous kit for the vw engine which is "bolt-on" and made it available to buy :)

Oyvind,

I am talking to the nitrous kit manufacturer I used before to do exactly that :),we are figuring out any differences for carbs or efi and with or without a fan shroud,anything else you can think of that we should take into account?

cheers richie

Ahh, nice! I think you have a good number of alternatives to start with there :)
If you make it complete with all hoses and fittings too, you will make it really easy for the buyer. Can not wait to see what price range this kit ends up in


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 21:59:25 pm
Todays parts addition

Well i have been offered such a good deal on a NOS nitrous kit i cant refuse :) I havent used one before so will be interesting to see how it compares to the "other manufacturer" who are keen to help and create a VW specific kit so I guess i will have to try both to see which does what 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 16, 2012, 22:00:37 pm
When my car is ready, I will drive it with the 2.0ltr type 4 I have laying around (+/-120HP N/A)
I want to add a bottle to it, so all the info is welcome. Do I have to run extra fuellines etc.?
I am still in the building face so if I have to change things (run extra lines and so, now is the time to do it.

Cheers Paul.

I ran a -8 feed and -6 return as needed for the EFI,then a simple T to take off the required fuel for the nitrous system in the engine bay,but as I wrote earlier it was on the limit of fuel supply,but more to do with the pump used than enything else,if building a car from scratch i would always fit 2 fuel lines,you never know when you will want to upgrade later,with a single line carbed ststem I think you want to add another fuel system for the nitrous anyway so yes fit 2 lines at least

cheers richie  


Hi Richie,

The future engine will be EFI so I already installed 2 -8 lines (so I"m good for the NOS on the temp. engine). Please keep us updated on the beetle NOS kit.

Cheers Paul.
-8 will supply plenty enough fuel for your requirements :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on July 17, 2012, 15:30:27 pm
-8 will supply plenty enough fuel for your requirements :)

Thanks, and thanks for the new wings that Michael will collect next week ;)

Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 17, 2012, 20:59:51 pm
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 17, 2012, 21:11:17 pm
-8 will supply plenty enough fuel for your requirements :)

Thanks, and thanks for the new wings that Michael will collect next week ;)

Paul.

Your welcome,and no problem,just finish the car now without changing your mind at all ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on July 17, 2012, 22:15:28 pm
just finish the car now without changing your mind at all ;)

That's impossible, stop with these kind of threads and I will finish sooner ;D

Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 17, 2012, 22:25:30 pm
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie

Race-weight ERCO's? 6"?
As light seats as possible with a lot of support!  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on July 17, 2012, 22:33:44 pm
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie

Race-weight ERCO's? 6"?
As light seats as possible with a lot of support!  ;D
A kirkey without padding ;)

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 08:16:04 am
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie

Race-weight ERCO's? 6"?
As light seats as possible with a lot of support!  ;D

That is my dilema,as the car is 4 stud and Ercos are not so easily available in 4 stud,particulaly used ;) I need to look for other options,or maybe go to 5x130 instead as there are lots of cheaper wheels available if I ignore the looks,as I will proberly need new discs and drums anyway as they are so corroded buying them in porsche pattern isnt really anymore expensive

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 08:18:20 am
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie

Race-weight ERCO's? 6"?
As light seats as possible with a lot of support!  ;D
A kirkey without padding ;)

Michael

Proberly that or the Jaz equiverlent,but it will need some padding for the road :o but I am also considering the fiberglass low back buckets and then add a headrest/support to cage


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on July 18, 2012, 08:33:27 am
There is a jazz poly seat  on lvzi for 60 quid


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jon on July 18, 2012, 09:40:46 am
I am also considering the fiberglass low back buckets and then add a headrest/support to cage

That is the scariest thing I see, a head rest integrated to the seat will always follow the seat/your body in an accident. A cage headrest will not... it will stay stationary while you move about.  I know seats aren't supposed to come loose... but safety is about IF.
Just a personal observation.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 10:13:01 am
I am also considering the fiberglass low back buckets and then add a headrest/support to cage

That is the scariest thing I see, a head rest integrated to the seat will always follow the seat/your body in an accident. A cage headrest will not... it will stay stationary while you move about.  I know seats aren't supposed to come loose... but safety is about IF.
Just a personal observation.

That is a good point Jon,and something I hadnt considered,I had planned a steel backbone to the fiber seat but not considered the "what if"  :o   

Highback it is then :)


Danny I will take a look,not so keen on the plastic seats as I worry they could tear where they are bolted through in an accident

 
cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on July 18, 2012, 10:33:54 am
Not much happened today,I did get some time so made a weld in gearbox intermidiate mount,but thats all,still trying to figure out what wheels and seats to use,I think I have all the important stuff figured out in my head now :)

cheers richie

Race-weight ERCO's? 6"?
As light seats as possible with a lot of support!  ;D

That is my dilema,as the car is 4 stud and Ercos are not so easily available in 4 stud,particulaly used ;) I need to look for other options,or maybe go to 5x130 instead as there are lots of cheaper wheels available if I ignore the looks,as I will proberly need new discs and drums anyway as they are so corroded buying them in porsche pattern isnt really anymore expensive

cheers richie

Richie, seemed to miss you guys at Dragstalgia ? Anyway catch up again somewhere huh  ;) Hoping to run at Shakey on Sunday with Danny. ClubdayRWYB sessions.
Bythe way I am sure I have seen some 4 stud ercos's for sale recently, maybe on here or Vzi or JG54 forum ? Happy hunting eh  ;D
By the


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 11:15:49 am
Richie, seemed to miss you guys at Dragstalgia ? Anyway catch up again somewhere huh  ;) Hoping to run at Shakey on Sunday with Danny. ClubdayRWYB sessions.
Bythe way I am sure I have seen some 4 stud ercos's for sale recently, maybe on here or Vzi or JG54 forum ? Happy hunting eh  ;D
By the


We saw you make a pass but didnt see where you we all parked,they wouldnt let us round with the car and wasnt going to carry the scales all the way round so just watched from the stands.

2 thoughts from what I saw of your pass

less burnout needed and let the linelock off while still doing the burnout and roll out the water that way,it looked like you dragged some water out with you

Good luck on sunday

If you see the add for those wheels let me know please?

cheers richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on July 18, 2012, 11:34:40 am
the 4 stud wheels are in this ad,link to thesamba.
just the two rear ones in 6".

henk!!!

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18590.0.html


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 12:36:37 pm
Thanks Henk,

I have mailed him to find out offset etc

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 18, 2012, 18:03:31 pm
I am also considering the fiberglass low back buckets and then add a headrest/support to cage

That is the scariest thing I see, a head rest integrated to the seat will always follow the seat/your body in an accident. A cage headrest will not... it will stay stationary while you move about.  I know seats aren't supposed to come loose... but safety is about IF.
Just a personal observation.

That is a good point Jon,and something I hadnt considered,I had planned a steel backbone to the fiber seat but not considered the "what if"  :o  

Highback it is then :)


Danny I will take a look,not so keen on the plastic seats as I worry they could tear where they are bolted through in an accident

 
cheers richie


I`m using this seat in Rabalder. Not very fancy or cool, but it has a steel frame, FIA approved, ok comfort, good support and cheap 1700,- NOK.

(http://www.pedersens-racing.no/bil/Sabelt/seter/GT090-01.jpg)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 19:09:21 pm


I`m using this seat in Rabalder. Not very fancy or cool, but it has a steel frame, FIA approved, ok comfort, good support and cheap 1700,- NOK.

(http://www.pedersens-racing.no/bil/Sabelt/seter/GT090-01.jpg)

Will your car be ready for SCC so I can see how comfortable it will be?  ;D

What does it weigh?

cheers richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 18, 2012, 20:43:00 pm


I`m using this seat in Rabalder. Not very fancy or cool, but it has a steel frame, FIA approved, ok comfort, good support and cheap 1700,- NOK.

(http://www.pedersens-racing.no/bil/Sabelt/seter/GT090-01.jpg)

Will your car be ready for SCC so I can see how comfortable it will be?  ;D

What does it weigh?

cheers richie



No, I have given up on getting Rabalder done to SCC  :-\ Just not enough time and energy to do it...
But the seat is in my Ghia now, which is my "Plan B" for racing at SCC, so you will be able to test it ;)
Don`t know the weight, sorry.

Berger


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 18, 2012, 21:16:21 pm
I think I have given up trying to get my 10sec street car ready for SCC as well :D  better try to get the cabrio done instead :)  will take a look at the seat then


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: old dub lover on July 18, 2012, 22:49:40 pm
I know earlier you said you would run a 2276cc motor is there a particular reason for not going bigger?


thanks


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: volkskris on July 18, 2012, 23:12:07 pm
I know earlier you said you would run a 2276cc motor is there a particular reason for not going bigger?


thanks
I think cost & strenght. with the shot of nos richie is planning, there is no need of a bigger engine I think


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: old dub lover on July 18, 2012, 23:13:35 pm
ok i just wondered if there was a reason for it

i didnt know if you could go bigger and use a smaller shot of gas?

thanks :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2012, 08:13:27 am
I know earlier you said you would run a 2276cc motor is there a particular reason for not going bigger?


thanks
I think cost & strenght. with the shot of nos richie is planning, there is no need of a bigger engine I think

Thats pretty much it,last time it was a 2332 with a vw rod journal crank,so I wanted to do something different so it will be 82 stroke with chevy journals,strength should be about the same,and a 2276 will give me enough power on the road :) and there should be less case clearancing needed,finally i got a good deal on the 82 stroke crank :D

You could go bigger say to a 2387 but it wont gain much really and the wider motor needs longer pushrods,is more difficult to fit in the engine bay with the efi if the injectors7 fuel rail end up on the outside as they did before,lastly one of the objects of doing this is to show what others can do and I see lots more 2276's than 2387 etc :)


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Wunder Wim on July 19, 2012, 08:23:13 am
I was just reading the Hot VW's All about perfomance engines #3.
They were building a nitro fed 2332cc. As I read it correctly, RLR sells of the shelve Nitro kits with all the necessary lines, nozzles, solenoids, bottle,... They come in kit that produce an additional 40, 60, 80 and even 100 hp.
Maybe these kits are a good starting point.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: old dub lover on July 19, 2012, 08:25:57 am
I know earlier you said you would run a 2276cc motor is there a particular reason for not going bigger?


thanks
I think cost & strenght. with the shot of nos richie is planning, there is no need of a bigger engine I think

Thats pretty much it,last time it was a 2332 with a vw rod journal crank,so I wanted to do something different so it will be 82 stroke with chevy journals,strength should be about the same,and a 2276 will give me enough power on the road :) and there should be less case clearancing needed,finally i got a good deal on the 82 stroke crank :D

You could go bigger say to a 2387 but it wont gain much really and the wider motor needs longer pushrods,is more difficult to fit in the engine bay with the efi if the injectors7 fuel rail end up on the outside as they did before,lastly one of the objects of doing this is to show what others can do and I see lots more 2276's than 2387 etc :)


cheers richie


that makes sense :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on July 19, 2012, 10:35:56 am
So I have been rummaging around through old shite in boxes,so far I have found the old header,the intake manifolds[heads are long gone] the cam[was swapped out when I went turbo] and I still have the nitrous set up,but want to do it with whats available now so proberly wont use it

Fonz can I have my gearbox and throttle bodies back?  :D

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

Kev you dont need that crank/flywheel and rods for a while do you?

I do actually still know were alot of it is but that would defeat the object of this if I do it.


Mmmm a wet miserable rainy day isnt good for the bank account :o

cheers richie

Have only just seen this thread.

Even before I got down to this post I was going to saydo you want to borrow your old gearbox and Jenveys.  :D

Hell.... why not just take the Ghia and see if you can run 10's!  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on July 19, 2012, 10:54:04 am
Nice find on the car btw. What month was it built?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2012, 11:56:43 am
So I have been rummaging around through old shite in boxes,so far I have found the old header,the intake manifolds[heads are long gone] the cam[was swapped out when I went turbo] and I still have the nitrous set up,but want to do it with whats available now so proberly wont use it

Fonz can I have my gearbox and throttle bodies back?  :D

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

Kev you dont need that crank/flywheel and rods for a while do you?

I do actually still know were alot of it is but that would defeat the object of this if I do it.


Mmmm a wet miserable rainy day isnt good for the bank account :o

cheers richie

Have only just seen this thread.

Even before I got down to this post I was going to saydo you want to borrow your old gearbox and Jenveys.  :D

Hell.... why not just take the Ghia and see if you can run 10's!  :D


Cause its to low ;D 


Can I just buy the box and throttle bodies off you for a pound each? then sell them back after I have finished with them :o :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2012, 11:58:05 am
Nice find on the car btw. What month was it built?

I havent checked ,havent picked it up yet

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on July 19, 2012, 12:27:52 pm
Cause its to low ;D  


Can I just buy the box and throttle bodies off you for a pound each? then sell them back after I have finished with them :o :)

That's just because I'm short.  ;)

Hey, you can even have the DTA if I get it all back with a wiring loom.  :)  Though isn't that defeating the point of the excersise?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on July 19, 2012, 12:44:29 pm
Face it though, the real reason you want the Jenveys back is because they look 10 times better now.  ;) ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2012, 12:54:23 pm
Face it though, the real reason you want the Jenveys back is because they look 10 times better now.  ;) ;D

I was hoping in the 10 years that passed since I last used them that they would have gained some patina by now?   ;) tart


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on July 19, 2012, 13:07:23 pm
Paint is a wonderfull thing for preventing oxidation.  ;)

What's with all this patina talk anyway? Sounds like you hung out with Bobby too long!  :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 19, 2012, 14:52:40 pm
Cool idea Richie! Lots of cred to you if you go all the way to the goal with this tread :)

This is my estimate, based on the Norwegian marked:

A solid 1302 71/72, stripped as much as possible, 30000,-NOK / 4000EUR
Good Used bus trans 002/091 5000,- NOK / 666EUR
Engine
Big bore oxy boxer, FK89, used Superflow heads, high comp (>13:1), E85, IDA 48, 50 000,- NOK / 6666 EUR
Wheels 10 000,- NOK /1333EUR
Div stuff 15 000,- NOK/2000EUR

Sum estimate 110 000,- NOK / 14665EUR

Of course, with this setup, you get only one race, as there is no safety added, and you will get disqualified after the first run ;)
So maybe add safety for 10000,- NOK /1333EUR

Keep us updated :)

Berger


I’ve just started reading this thread from the start and have to say your estimate is not bad, maybe a bit more.

I’ve not kept an exact spreadsheet but know quite well what my car owes me.
I bought the ’67 in 2007 and have so far spend roughly £16k on it.
Okay, the car is not in the 10s and I’m hoping for 11s with my new motor, that is if the rain ever stops and I can actually go to the track to try it without getting hypothermia or webbed feet.

£16k in my case includes buying
-   a solid, running (almost stock) car
-   a chrome moly cage including final TIG welding and other safety gear, i.e. Kirkey seat, seat belt, race suit, boots, gloves etc to comply with MSA regs
-   wheels and slicks
-   Cogbox build 091 gearbox
-   IRS conversion including axles, swing arms and chassis brackets
-   Everything for my 2387cc N/A 48IDA motor including wedgemated Scat crank, rods, Wisecos, Comp Eliminators etc

Also included in the 16k is a full respray with blasting the shell & pan (then having to pay a bodyshop to get the destroyed doors reskinned) and other pretty things like new rubber seals everywhere and aluminium door panels, which could be argued are not really needed, but we all like an astatically pleasing car.

The car, race ready with me weighs about 1830lbs or 830kg, so I (or the car) could either lose some weight or the money for the respray and pretty things could be used to buy and set up a NOS system.

I’ve always sold things not needed to pay for parts and have bought some items used but only if I know they work. Also a lot came in the back of vans etc directly from the States when the exchange rate was nearly 2 dollars to one pound which helped.

Frank


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 19, 2012, 14:55:19 pm

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

cheers richie

Tough luck ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2012, 15:16:52 pm

Frank I need those axles and cvs as well?  ;D

cheers richie

Tough luck ;D


Didnt i just loan them to you until I needed them next?  :D   

Shiny paint is for girls nails :-*


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 20, 2012, 13:35:34 pm
We have a donor :)  it is a little rough in places,needs a heater channel outer on one side at least and a couple of bumper mounts,I will proberly put a whole channel in as i am sure there more rust hidden underneath,the doors have suffered from sitting outside for so long unused but hopefully therer are to many hidden horrors as it hasnt had years of being "fixed' by welding plate over plate.
It is a 6v 1500 so should have some usefull pieces to sell off as well,and came with a new pair of disc drop spindles soem something else i dont need to buy

Nice Lotus white 67, finally you got a car in the right colour (again)....and when you had enough of it I'll have it off you ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 22, 2012, 17:20:01 pm
We have a donor :)  it is a little rough in places,needs a heater channel outer on one side at least and a couple of bumper mounts,I will proberly put a whole channel in as i am sure there more rust hidden underneath,the doors have suffered from sitting outside for so long unused but hopefully therer are to many hidden horrors as it hasnt had years of being "fixed' by welding plate over plate.
It is a 6v 1500 so should have some usefull pieces to sell off as well,and came with a new pair of disc drop spindles soem something else i dont need to buy

Nice Lotus white 67, finally you got a car in the right colour (again)....and when you had enough of it I'll have it off you ;)


Well guess what,it will look even more like your 67


been busy doing other projects so not much happened this week,but did pick up some wheels thanks to people on here pointing me in the direction of them,so unless I can find 6 real gasburners for under 300pounds :o
 then I will be running these on the road and a pair of ercos for the slicks

Frank do they look familiar? :D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 23, 2012, 07:19:32 am
Cool, you got them then! ;) They do look good detailed in black like a Cosmic, but I also like them as they are - should look good with the white paint on the car.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 23, 2012, 07:51:47 am
something like this  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 23, 2012, 08:34:41 am
Cool, you got them then! ;) They do look good detailed in black like a Cosmic, but I also like them as they are - should look good with the white paint on the car.

Thanks for the link :)

I dont see any detailing in my plans anytime soon,Frank has detailed his now and they look 10 times better though :) I was thinking straight black,more subtle

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 23, 2012, 08:43:39 am
My spare pair are stright black, and they do look good. I'll get a pic at some point! :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 24, 2012, 11:46:49 am



Well guess what,it will look even more like your 67


been busy doing other projects so not much happened this week,but did pick up some wheels thanks to people on here pointing me in the direction of them,so unless I can find 6 real gasburners for under 300pounds :o
 then I will be running these on the road and a pair of ercos for the slicks

Frank do they look familiar? :D

cheers richie
[/quote]

ATS Cup wheels?
Now get some 8" x 13" with 175/60 13's for Jo's Mk1 with fully adjustable Bilsteins and you got a nice pair of German Lookers  8)

Oh when you get these genuine Gasburners for 300 quid let me know. I'll have a set of 4 but will still pay th esame as you for 6 on an inflated price. Just trying to get the world economy going again  ;)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k148/autobutcher/13052012125.jpg)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Peter on July 24, 2012, 12:53:39 pm
Hey Richie,
I don't know if you're interested,
but i have a complete Kdata EFI for sale, wasted spark ignition included...
A lot cheaper than DTA ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 24, 2012, 14:05:00 pm
Hey Richie,
I don't know if you're interested,
but i have a complete Kdata EFI for sale, wasted spark ignition included...
A lot cheaper than DTA ;)

Peter can you send me all the details and info to me in a pm please? and a price :)

Useing the DTA has an added saving for me as I will be able to put a map into it and get it running pretty close without having to spend money at the dyno :) but i am interested in what you have got

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jeff68 on July 25, 2012, 14:53:46 pm
I just found this thread. This is a great topic / thread.  Many want to run fast on the street and strip, be reliable but on somewhat of a budget.  I really appreciate Richie starting this and doin the work! Also thanks to all those with experience in this for posting on it honsestly.  I will definitely watch this thread! 
Should rename the thread - 10 seconds for 10K  or 10K for 10 Seconds   ;D  Thanks again!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 27, 2012, 10:10:45 am
I just found this thread. This is a great topic / thread.  Many want to run fast on the street and strip, be reliable but on somewhat of a budget.  I really appreciate Richie starting this and doin the work! Also thanks to all those with experience in this for posting on it honsestly.  I will definitely watch this thread! 
Should rename the thread - 10 seconds for 10K  or 10K for 10 Seconds   ;D  Thanks again!

Thanks Jeff

hopefully it will be fun :)  and we all get to learn something,its to easy to get caught up in the "monkey see,monkey do" attitude and then we as a group never move forward

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 02, 2012, 09:27:45 am
not much progress

I have ordered the cage from Jim@cotsweld and will have that in a few weeks :)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Beetleman on August 29, 2012, 19:14:59 pm
Absolutely fascinating thread, very informative and extremely interesting to see how the differing thoughts around the car are progressed (or not).

Really looking forward to see this move on, I will be watching with great interest  :)

Graeme


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Red Rooster on September 03, 2012, 12:15:07 pm
Hi all I am new to the lounge but have been following this thread for a little while now with quite a bit of interest.


in my old car we ran an 11.5 with a little gas very reliably and consistently. we bracket raced at York and Santa pod. The best money ever spent was an Innovate LM1. a very basic data logger and A/F monitor.

We would log A/F and engine rpm and use the data to back the fuel pressure on the nitrous side down. this gained us agree tenths over what had been advised as a perfect set up of jet sizes and fuel pressure.

We only ever ran a small shot as with the gas on the car was flat out at 112mph on limited at 8200rpm at 1000 feet. same speed as without gas at quarter mile. used to shut the gas off as the shift light came on.

This was only on a 2165 with home ported 42x37.5 heads and ida's. bottle pressure is the key to safe consistent running.

I am very keen to see what is achieved with a controller.

The car was a little lighter than a stock street car but not by a lot I don't think.

It was sold on to fund a V8 funnycar which has just been shelved due to finances so my 67 street car is being re built and restored to become a street strip machine.

Engine parts have been accumulated for a while and its a 2276 on ida's. no cam yet. I have some 043 headss that may get used after a trip to the welders.also with some wiseco's in there so it will take a bit of gas.

Have a cog box built box with close ratio gears and I think a 4.125 r&p. still on a super beetle main shaft.

This thread now has me pondering the potential. any thoughts?

Cheers

David


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 03, 2012, 16:02:50 pm
I collected an cheap nitrous kit while at SCC,it is the NOS brand which I havent used so more learning to be done there,not much else happened as other cars have taken priority at the moment,but I will keep collecting the parts as I find them for sale so when I do start I will make good progress quickly and not be held up waiting for something

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 03, 2012, 16:07:41 pm
Hi all I am new to the lounge but have been following this thread for a little while now with quite a bit of interest.


in my old car we ran an 11.5 with a little gas very reliably and consistently. we bracket raced at York and Santa pod. The best money ever spent was an Innovate LM1. a very basic data logger and A/F monitor.

We would log A/F and engine rpm and use the data to back the fuel pressure on the nitrous side down. this gained us agree tenths over what had been advised as a perfect set up of jet sizes and fuel pressure.

We only ever ran a small shot as with the gas on the car was flat out at 112mph on limited at 8200rpm at 1000 feet. same speed as without gas at quarter mile. used to shut the gas off as the shift light came on.

This was only on a 2165 with home ported 42x37.5 heads and ida's. bottle pressure is the key to safe consistent running.

I am very keen to see what is achieved with a controller.

The car was a little lighter than a stock street car but not by a lot I don't think.

It was sold on to fund a V8 funnycar which has just been shelved due to finances so my 67 street car is being re built and restored to become a street strip machine.

Engine parts have been accumulated for a while and its a 2276 on ida's. no cam yet. I have some 043 headss that may get used after a trip to the welders.also with some wiseco's in there so it will take a bit of gas.

Have a cog box built box with close ratio gears and I think a 4.125 r&p. still on a super beetle main shaft.

This thread now has me pondering the potential. any thoughts?

Cheers

David

It sounds like you have got some good knowledge there already from running the other car,and some good parts to use on the next one,the 4.12 R&P is proberly going to be a little short for a nitrous car depending on what 4th gear you have and what tyres you will use?

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Red Rooster on September 03, 2012, 17:25:34 pm
atio

It sounds like you have got some good knowledge there already from running the other car,and some good parts to use on the next one,the 4.12 R&P is proberly going to be a little short for a nitrous car depending on what 4th gear you have and what tyres you will use?

cheers richie

we learned a lot in a few years racing. a lot of the head work I would do differently but we ran lots of mid 11's and 12.2 s no gas in the end and never had a single failure other than one snapped rocker shaft and a bent push rod now and then. I think if the gearing was taller a very low 11 was in there with a bit more gas but I was dubious on mahle's. plus on only a small shot we could choose to run either way at the drop of a hat as we didn't even need to take any timing out of it

I think the new car will run on M+H dots. Big Peter Christie ran some on his 67 and only had good words to say.

I do like the n/a scream of ida's and a lot of rpm (hard on parts I know) and intend boring mine to 51.5 if I can get enough in the heads hopefully I can push the rpm band up a little to help with the mph. the old engines max was trialed at 8400rpm limit but that was on a vw spring and that's when I ran into push rod problems so dropped ot back to 8200 shifting at 7800.. Hopefully if I can get a head and cam combination and valve train stability to see maybe 8.5k there maybe enough in the gearing I have?

I will see if I can find the spec on the box for fourth and the r&p to double check what they where.

Cheers

David


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Simpsonshoe on October 25, 2012, 20:11:34 pm
I have seen a few cars that can run low 11's with mild combos..Two i can think of off the bat.. one a light bracket car that ran mid 12's at around 104-105 with a 2054 a 60 hp shot with very little tuning ran 11.17 at 117.. .. the other a 12.80 1915 IDA motor street sedan that ran 11.17 at 119 with a good sized shot. That 2 or three tenths is no problem those small motors made about 145-150 HP off the jug... All you need is a 2165-2276 built  about 9.0- 9.5 CB perf Pro Gas motor... Put it in a light car with decent gearing.... then slap a shot on it.. work the jetting until the number is reached..   Doubt it will take more thana 60-75 hit and  6000-7000 total.. 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: AntLockyer on October 25, 2012, 20:33:31 pm
I have seen a few cars that can run low 11's with mild combos..Two i can think of off the bat.. one a light bracket car that ran mid 12's at around 104-105 with a 2054 a 60 hp shot with very little tuning ran 11.17 at 117.. .. the other a 12.80 1915 IDA motor street sedan that ran 11.17 at 119 with a good sized shot. That 2 or three tenths is no problem those small motors made about 145-150 HP off the jug... All you need is a 2165-2276 built  about 9.0- 9.5 CB perf Pro Gas motor... Put it in a light car with decent gearing.... then slap a shot on it.. work the jetting until the number is reached..   Doubt it will take more thana 60-75 hit and  6000-7000 total.. 

This is music to my ears. I'd love to get into the 11s with my combo


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 21, 2012, 20:45:24 pm
As its so quiet in hear at the moment I thought I would bring this back up,I will be collecting the donor car on sunday,it wasnt possible until now to get me and it in the same place,I have lots of parts gathered and bought for as cheap as possible in the last few months and as soon as I get a couple of small projects finished I will get into it,I still hope to have it running this summer but time and money will get in the way as it is for everyone

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 25, 2012, 13:08:42 pm
I collected the car on sunday,then yesterday gave it a good jet wash to remove several years of tree etc that had fallen on it,there is still some that wont come of easily on the roof and bonnet,but i am not concerned about that for now.

The plan:

As soon as I can get some space inside my 1st plan is to weigh the car as it sits now,it is missing 1 bumper and a couple of other small items[windscreen wiper motor & running boards most notible] so I will find those from my spares and put them in the car to get it as near as possible to what it would weigh stock.Everything that gets taken off and not re used will be weighed as well,then see what it weighs at the end and I will know how much all the extra junk adds
Then strip it all down to see what horrors are hidden,I will complete what rust repair is needed,convert it to IRS, then add the cage and seat mounts and go from there.

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on December 25, 2012, 13:25:12 pm
Sounds interesting I'm looking forward to this :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on December 25, 2012, 13:41:26 pm
looking forward to the progress as welll.
i'm glad you start with it again.

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on December 25, 2012, 15:25:17 pm
Sounds like a lot of work..

Respect for putting in that amount of time in this project, while I am sure your pretty busy like all of us!

Cheers,
Walter


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: AntLockyer on December 25, 2012, 18:31:05 pm
convert it to IRS,

Going to do a how to?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on December 25, 2012, 21:12:48 pm
so is it done now? 


 ;D

best wishes already and i'll be watching this tread for some info on an IRS conversion.  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 26, 2012, 11:48:17 am
convert it to IRS,

Going to do a how to?

Hi Ant

do you think its needed? there are some out there already and what I do is not much different? I wasnt planning on it as when I start I just tend to keep going until its done,I dont remember to take photos along the way ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 26, 2012, 11:50:37 am
so is it done now? 


 ;D

best wishes already and i'll be watching this tread for some info on an IRS conversion.  ;)

Hi Nicolas

Nearly ;D  well I nearly started on it :)  its actually dry here today so should get a chance to move some things around and at least weigh it ready to take apart



cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: AntLockyer on December 26, 2012, 12:04:37 pm


Hi Ant

do you think its needed? there are some out there already and what I do is not much different? I wasnt planning on it as when I start I just tend to keep going until its done,I dont remember to take photos along the way ;)

cheers richie

To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 26, 2012, 13:19:27 pm



To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?




No i use the swingaxle torsion housing,I just cut the frame forks to allow the irs brackets to fit in,I have a jig to hold them in the correct place,then weld them in and swap the spring plates to irs version,also you need to clearance the factory cast body support bracket to clear the irs arm to allow more travel and depending on what year the car is and what cvs you are going to use,sometimes I have to clearance the frame fork for the inner cv


cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: AntLockyer on December 27, 2012, 10:32:11 am



To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?




No i use the swingaxle torsion housing,I just cut the frame forks to allow the irs brackets to fit in,I have a jig to hold them in the correct place,then weld them in and swap the spring plates to irs version,also you need to clearance the factory cast body support bracket to clear the irs arm to allow more travel and depending on what year the car is and what cvs you are going to use,sometimes I have to clearance the frame fork for the inner cv


cheers richie


Sounds pretty straight forward, cheers.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 27, 2012, 19:28:39 pm
The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Metalflakedave on December 27, 2012, 20:16:12 pm
The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 

Interesting stuff. So thats around 785kgs in total if I've read the scales right?

I'm having my '72 corner weighted soon so wondering what it will weigh. This gives me a good idea - no bumpers on mine, day mouldings wings and glass engine lid, but a little bit of extra interior with modern seats and full rear seat... Maybe 750-800?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 27, 2012, 21:24:26 pm
The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 

Interesting stuff. So thats around 785kgs in total if I've read the scales right?

I'm having my '72 corner weighted soon so wondering what it will weigh. This gives me a good idea - no bumpers on mine, day mouldings wings and glass engine lid, but a little bit of extra interior with modern seats and full rear seat... Maybe 750-800?

Yes,that 785kg is about right,I noticed later on it didn't have a battery in it either so that would need to be added.

It will suprise you how much weight is added by the whole big engine thing,and as they went on through the years beetles got heavier

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Metalflakedave on December 27, 2012, 22:13:24 pm

Yes,that 785kg is about right,I noticed later on it didn't have a battery in it either so that would need to be added.

It will suprise you how much weight is added by the whole big engine thing,and as they went on through the years beetles got heavier

cheers richie

Cool. Mine is 2276 powered but with all the 'glass panels and a few repro I hope its a bit lighter or the same as a stock '72.

We shall see...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on December 28, 2012, 00:18:32 am
I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on December 28, 2012, 09:49:17 am
I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.

Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!! ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 28, 2012, 09:59:33 am
I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.


Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!! ;D ;D

Michael

Shhhh!!!! we dont want the wait for them to get longer ;)

Neil there is proberly something in the weight saving thread that gives the weight for them all? if not I will weigh some I have and see what the difference is

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on December 28, 2012, 11:13:42 am

Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!! ;D ;D

Michael

I've only had street weight ones, beautifully made but solid!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on December 28, 2012, 11:19:25 am

Shhhh!!!! we dont want the wait for them to get longer ;)

Neil there is proberly something in the weight saving thread that gives the weight for them all? if not I will weigh some I have and see what the difference is

cheers richie


Richie, I haven't seen the weights given, but if you could weigh them and add them to the weight saving thread then that would be really useful! I'll see if my kitchen scales go heavy enough for repro steel '68 on wings!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 28, 2012, 11:28:42 am
will do,I have stock front steel,stock repo front steel,stock day mouldings front here so will do those,I got some raceweights ones that i have to collect next week so will weigh them then

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 04, 2013, 17:30:33 pm
I got some stuff arrive this week,still just parts gathering but the 82mm welded crank with matching flywheel arrived,with type 4 center main to match this used case that was already modded to take the type 4 center conversion bearing,stroker clearanced,opened for 94mm pistons and full flowed,
 and these 4 lug ercos also came,to be used for the rear with slicks.
I also found a deal on a pair of heads that i want to use,still got to see if they are actually what I want if I manage to get them

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 09, 2013, 18:58:09 pm
Hi Richie,

Are you still thinking of developing a Nitrous kit? I was thinking of buying 51.5 IDA's but wondering if its worth going fuel injection and a 50 shot of Nitrous. Will the standard Wisecos cope with that?

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on January 09, 2013, 19:17:24 pm
If it was me efi and Wiscos will put up with a 50 shot easy :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 09, 2013, 19:48:27 pm
my mahles have been coping with over 100 pases this season on the gas and 16 of those was a 100hp shot so id be suprised is wisecos would go tits on a measly 50 shot :D
do it efi and nitrous is a much better setup than a set of those silly door stops  :o :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2013, 19:50:53 pm
Lee,

yep Andy is right,but way more than that,

you can go IDAs,plenty make it work,the EFI just offers so much more with all the data you get,even the budget set ups like Megasquirt can log so much now,and the ignition side of them is much improved so you dont need all the MSD[or whatever brand] boxes etc and the costs even out,its just a little harder to learn the EFI set up than swap jets in IDAs :o :)

I have tried jets that should give 160hp[we all now its never as good as advertised ;) ] worth of nitrous on the thick ring Wisecos,and 80hp jets on regular mahle pistons,I dont see any problem with running 80-100 hp on the thin ring wisecos you have, what fuel you were using would be more critical.There are guys making 250hp+ N/A at 14.5 - 15/1 compression with the thin ring wisecos and they live for several seasons,they are a good strong piston,if you are interested in going to a bigger nitrous jet then we can always figure out a swap on the pistons for the other style

I have 3 different brands of nitrous solenoids to use now,I am thinking of trying them all jetted the same and see what works best,then decide from there if there is a market to supply a kit based on what results I get

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2013, 19:53:08 pm
my mahles have been coping with over 100 pases this season on the gas and 16 of those was a 100hp shot so id be suprised is wisecos would go tits on a measly 50 shot :D
do it efi and nitrous is a much better setup than a set of those silly door stops  :o :D

Perfect,

straight from the horses mouth so to speak :D   Danny does have the benifit of access to a dyno to make sure its safe before beating on it some more ;D

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 09, 2013, 20:08:31 pm
richie
i get my jets from exup racing in bolton, from dyno power runs last week i found 96fwhp jets gave me 92fwhp on the dyno with 120 octane race fuel  and 6 degrees retard not sure what calculator he uses but seems pretty close ?i always get a fuel jet either side and run the mix a bit rich so im sure if i leaned it out a bit on the jets it would make the extra hp but tend to keep it rich and lose a few hp :-[


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 09, 2013, 20:43:44 pm
Thanks guys,
This is a long way off right now as got to finish the new car which hasn't really started as yet :o

Richie, appreciate the offer of sorting some sort of swap, my wisecos are still safely boxed and never taken out!!
Would the Barrels I got from you hold up also?

As much as I love IDA's and that won't ever go away, if I do go the nitrous route efi seems a safer bet.
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2013, 20:55:25 pm
richie
i get my jets from exup racing in bolton, from dyno power runs last week i found 96fwhp jets gave me 92fwhp on the dyno with 120 octane race fuel  and 6 degrees retard not sure what calculator he uses but seems pretty close ?i always get a fuel jet either side and run the mix a bit rich so im sure if i leaned it out a bit on the jets it would make the extra hp but tend to keep it rich and lose a few hp :-[

Nice

I am sure I asked you this before but are you using single jets at the solenoid or at all 4 foggers? what fuel pressure and bottle pressure is that with?

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 09, 2013, 21:02:16 pm
i use a single jet with buffer jets in foggers to regulate the flow to all foggers cant remember if its 3 bar or 5 bar pressure and run the bottle around 900-1000 but was struggling to get 900 on the dyno on friday due to a small leak that i didnt notice until my bottle warmer battery had gone a bit flat  ::) :-[
the single jet setup seems to work really well for me im not sure how much hp you can run through the single jet setup but its giving pretty close hp to jet hp so it must be ok?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2013, 21:09:44 pm
Thanks,mine was single jet set up as well,really liked it and was easy to get on with,take the jets out and see what it makes then,that will be the most it can make :o ;D  with my old set up the solenoids maxed out about 200hp level supposedly

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on January 09, 2013, 21:50:30 pm
Danny/Ritchie, just a quick question please?
I tried the single jet at the solenoid a few times, the only time it really worked well for me was with short feed lines to the nozzles and a NO2 jet over 0.025", under that it seemed to stutter and be inconsistent (on a bike). It is quite likely it was me that screwed it up, I was using 5mm Mikuni jets into the inlet of a splitter to jet. Fuel always seemed OK though.
What single jet set up did you guys run?
Without mentioning brand names as such, I had intended to get solenoids/nozzles from a UK company, but it's a long way to go from Oz just to get another system that may not work due to my ineptitude!
Any advice welcomed.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2013, 22:01:20 pm
Danny/Ritchie, just a quick question please?
I tried the single jet at the solenoid a few times, the only time it really worked well for me was with short feed lines to the nozzles and a NO2 jet over 0.025", under that it seemed to stutter and be inconsistent (on a bike). It is quite likely it was me that screwed it up, I was using 5mm Mikuni jets into the inlet of a splitter to jet. Fuel always seemed OK though.
What single jet set up did you guys run?
Without mentioning brand names as such, I had intended to get solenoids/nozzles from a UK company, but it's a long way to go from Oz just to get another system that may not work due to my ineptitude!
Any advice welcomed.

Did you run a single jet in each solenoid?not sure if thats what you mean? 
Mine were all metric,I started at 0.25mm to test the system and went up to 1.40mm with success,when I tried bigger than that I struggle with the tune[fuel system wouldnt flow enough to keep up]
I had the jet in the outlet of the soleniod,to a 4 way split,then lines to each intake runner,total line length from the solenoid to the nozzle must have been at least 16inches using plastic tube,my kit came from Trevor/Highpower as it was known back then,now Wizard of NOS I think,I will be trying his latest ideas for sure.

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on January 09, 2013, 22:50:16 pm
Thanks Ritchie.
That's the company I was talking about, I think I will go there next as some of my stuff has past it's use-by date and needs replacement.
Yes, I had the jet at the solenoid end, 1 for each obviously, but I had the jets into the inlet of the splitter right after the solenoid.
Maybe that's why I had issues with it?  :-\ I did it that way so the calibrated side of the bike carb jets I was using faced the same way as if it was metering fuel out of a bowl, but perhaps it just made a little "frozen space" between the solenoid seal and the jet?
Never mind, I've heard good things about Trevor's stuff even from here, so will go there.
Thanks again.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 09, 2013, 22:52:40 pm
mine is a nos setup big shot solinoid with a braid line about 12 inch to the splitter where i have single jet  then i have a .18 jet in each nitrous inlet cant remember fuel size jets in fuel inlet i have steel 3/16 brake lines from splitter to foggers around 24 inch each id say? pretty basic stuff the nos wizard setups look great but if it aint broke and all that lol


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on January 10, 2013, 04:46:39 am
Thanks Danny.
Yeah I used the splitter with the jet screwed into it straight onto the solenoid O/P, then truck airline to each nozzle, same setup for the fuel lines. NOS solenoids on both, but only the little ones, I was only running 60HP shot max.........but into a Zed that's enough!
I need new solenoids, and have run out of rebuild kits, and the nozzles are nearly 10 years old now, so maybe time for some shiny stuff in the mail!
Just in case I ever need them......... ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 02, 2013, 18:11:55 pm
I got these from Robthemanx yesterday to match the rears he already made me,so a soon as i get a chance next week I will weigh them,and compare them to stock metal,repo metal,regular weight fiberglass[day mouldings] and light day mouldings to see how much weight can be saved and compare £/lbs to see what the best value is,well in my opinion

Apart from that not much progress happened yet

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 10, 2013, 14:04:14 pm
A slight change of plan as i want to go to 5x130 stud pattern,mainly for the better choice of wheels available so these turned up this week,same as on the old cab,and along with front discs they were good enough to stop that from 150mph+ so should work well enough for this,going to add press in wheel studs for the extra safety


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 10, 2013, 14:15:35 pm
So I got some time to weight some wings,heres my results all in pounds

Fronts

Stock VW early "sloping headlight "  11.4lbs
Day mouldings stock weight late 'upright headlight" 7.4lbs
Day mouldings medium weight upright       6.3lbs
East coast manx/Rob kilham lightweight sloper 5.2lbs
Day mouldings lightweight sloper 5.3lbs
Creative car craft race sloper[USA] [no headlight bucket] 5.7lbs

Rears

steel repo early   7.3lbs
East coast manx/Rob kilham early 5.4lbs[I would describe this as medium weight glass lay up]
Day mouldings light early 4.4lbs
Steel genuine NOS VW[not sure country of manufacture though] 6.8lbs

I need to dig out a a pattern steel front for comparission still and that should give enough info :)

If anyone has some to add please do?

cheers richie

 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on February 10, 2013, 17:42:27 pm
good info 8) worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon :) i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on March 19, 2013, 21:28:26 pm
Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jussifin on March 19, 2013, 21:52:37 pm
17000,-e = fresh/strong 2.9 type 4(10), dogring gearbox + raceaxles(4), streetslicks+racewheels(1), any beetle body(2) + plasma for one evening... ;D and low 10s is there... That simple it is.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on March 19, 2013, 22:46:21 pm
Yeah, ^^ what he said!  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 21, 2013, 09:06:36 am
17000,-e = fresh/strong 2.9 type 4(10), dogring gearbox + raceaxles(4), streetslicks+racewheels(1), any beetle body(2) + plasma for one evening... ;D and low 10s is there... That simple it is.

 ;D  but throw in a fuel & ignition system, cage,seats,brakes etc and it sounds quite expensive

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 21, 2013, 09:07:52 am
good info 8) worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon :) i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison :)

Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!


What did you find out?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 21, 2013, 09:12:44 am
I got Rob to make me a bonnet as he was just finished with the mold,with hinge panel as for me there is nothing worse than having to take the bonnet off just to fill up with fuel,I have had it a couple of weeks but have been away so just got a chance to weigh it.

East coast manx fiberglass bonnet  11.9lbs

NOS 67 bonnet                           21.4lbs

Given the quality and cost of Robs[east coast manx] bonnet it is well worth it :)

He is now doing me some light rear wings so will add there weight on here when I get them

cheers Richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 21, 2013, 09:15:48 am
Evidence :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on March 27, 2013, 23:55:03 pm
rear east coast  gasser wings about 2kgs  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 28, 2013, 09:22:01 am
rear east coast  gasser wings about 2kgs  ;)

Thanks Danny,so 4.4lbs for us old farts,same as a lightweight day mouldings rear,I have asked Rob to do me a pair of lightweight rears as well so will add the weight of them when I get them

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 28, 2013, 12:46:56 pm
I added a NOS VW rear to the previous list as well

Also heres a couple of 67 decklids,complete with number plate light unit

Steel genuine vw 12.8
Fiberglass unknown manufacture 9.8lbs

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on March 28, 2013, 18:18:03 pm
I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 28, 2013, 22:39:27 pm
I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.
Anything over 35% front is good,over 40% front is real good,but I think it comes down to several factors,what good useable panels etc you already have,budget and what you are trying for, for just a race car I would replace all the bolt on stuff with lighter were I could,then if needed put the weight back in were i wanted/needed it,low down right at the front with some lead bar

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on March 29, 2013, 01:50:31 am
I know its veering off into the weight saving thread, but what do you consider the optimal overall weight and front/rear weight balance to be? It would be useful to mix and match parts to get the balance right.
Anything over 35% front is good,over 40% front is real good,but I think it comes down to several factors,what good useable panels etc you already have,budget and what you are trying for, for just a race car I would replace all the bolt on stuff with lighter were I could,then if needed put the weight back in were i wanted/needed it,low down right at the front with some lead bar

cheers Richie

Cheers Richie, that's useful to know. The new car is having a new repro ( thinner and lighter!) spare wheel well fitted, although id originally planned on just a valance and the two bumper mount repair panels. Theres also a stock fuel tank up front, but the back is aluminium panelled out and has no engine bay, I've got a stock steel bonnet but a grp decklid, repro steel wings all round, gutted doors, so glad I'm heading in the right direction. I was a little concerned about adding weight in the wrong places. I'd like the overall weight to be around the same as Headstraight was, 1640lbs with me in it so I hope low 12's would be doable before a power adder... I'm looking forward to the nitrous part of your build!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on March 30, 2013, 13:18:55 pm
good info 8) worthy of a post in weight saving thread i reckon :) i will weigh eastcoast gassers rear flared wings for another comparison :)

Good info Rich
I've got some of Robs panels, not got anything that accurate to measure with though, I'll see what I can find!


What did you find out?

cheers Richie

All I've got is dodgy bathroom scales, we've some digital ones at home, i'll try to remember to bring them to work  :)

Yeah Robs panels are really good - very impressed with them!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 30, 2013, 13:43:53 pm
I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on March 31, 2013, 15:01:44 pm
I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie

Fishermen always lie though! ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 31, 2013, 18:31:33 pm
I bought some reasonable quality fishing scales 11 years ago to keep check of the nitrous bottle weights and still use them, simple and cheap enough

cheers Richie

Fishermen always lie though! ;)

Harsh :o  exagerate is a better word :D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on March 31, 2013, 20:45:06 pm
lol, that wouldn't really work "Kawwwww got a bonnet this morning, 15 stone it was !!!" :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on April 04, 2013, 16:09:44 pm
I make my own deck lids and front hoods for weight saving and Money saving :D ive de skinned the original steel panels and lay up on the back inside, the front hood is only two plys in the central area with extra  reinforcing just at the fixing pin areas, an extra bit of lay up along the 'spine' and the centre sides areas so its strong enough to handle lots, its up to 4 ply in the low 'nose' area as stones will  go straight thro' on the race circuits, i guess its no more than 4 kg, the rear deck lids can be 2 ply,  i had EZ bug here in the UK do me some rear wings at 2 ply, very very light, front wings are modified ITG steel, very light again after ive finished with them,  glass/f wont last  5 mins on the front and no budget for carbon lol.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on April 09, 2013, 17:30:33 pm
done some weighing!
 
Sloping Day mouldings wings                              7.4 lb
Bonnet early rob the manx fibreglass hinge panel  12.2lb
Bonnet early original                                         21.8 lb
Front wing upright repro steel                            9.6 lb
Late door original complete other than glass        28.6 lb
Aronson deck lid fibreglass                                  5.6 lb
Semi W deck lid original complete                       15.4lb

done on digital bathroom scales  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 09, 2013, 22:30:55 pm

number plate light unit

cheers Richie

The old 65 and later ones are heavy cast iron, but the Mexican ones are lite fiberglass (original hella).
Didn t way the difference, but I thought it was a huge difference.

Regards Edgar


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on April 10, 2013, 05:18:46 am
Cast aluminium, not iron ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Simpsonshoe on April 10, 2013, 21:24:46 pm
Cast aluminium, not iron ;)
He is probably thinking of all those VWs made in Detroit.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on April 10, 2013, 21:48:51 pm
Cast aluminium, not iron ;)
Cast aluminium, not iron ;)
He is probably thinking of all those VWs made in Detroit.

haha shit..... no is it alu... :o but it is realy heavy..
ok let me bring out my magnet and see... :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on April 13, 2013, 18:17:24 pm
I'm using one of the late ones but I'm going to grind off the strengthening ribs too. That'll be going onto a fibreglass eyebrow lid. I'll weigh it when I get the chance.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on April 21, 2013, 18:36:11 pm
front east coast gasser early flared wings just over 2kgs each   ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 02, 2013, 17:53:43 pm

number plate light unit

cheers Richie

The old 65 and later ones are heavy cast iron, but the Mexican ones are lite fiberglass (original hella).
Didn t way the difference, but I thought it was a huge difference.

Regards Edgar

I got a late plastic Hella version at a swap meet yesterday,weighed it compared to a stock metal late version today

Plastic 8 5/8 Oz
Metal 1lb 7oz

Nice saving so will use the late plastic one for sure,will grind the top ribs off so it looks the same


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Old Guy on May 20, 2013, 08:06:34 am
Hi Richie,

Ron Barrett here from the US.  What a great thread!  I just finished reading the entire thread.  It's now 11:50pm and past my bedtime.  I don't think you'll have any problems getting into the 10's with your setup.  While our Pro Gas car isn't a street car it has run a best of 10.76 @ 123.18mph weighing 1725lbs with Kevin in it.  Even though you wouldn't want to run the 14.9 to 1 that we do, you could still get away with around 10 to 1 (that's as long as you run a cam with a fair amount of overlap to lower the actual cylinder pressure a bit).  That early post had the right idea.  Get Jo's car dialed and then put a 100 shot on it.  Heck, 9's wouldn't be out of the question.  I guess convincing Jo would be the hardest part.  LOL


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 20, 2013, 09:26:21 am
Hi Richie,

Ron Barrett here from the US.  What a great thread!  I just finished reading the entire thread.  It's now 11:50pm and past my bedtime.  I don't think you'll have any problems getting into the 10's with your setup.  While our Pro Gas car isn't a street car it has run a best of 10.76 @ 123.18mph weighing 1725lbs with Kevin in it.  Even though you wouldn't want to run the 14.9 to 1 that we do, you could still get away with around 10 to 1 (that's as long as you run a cam with a fair amount of overlap to lower the actual cylinder pressure a bit).  That early post had the right idea.  Get Jo's car dialed and then put a 100 shot on it.  Heck, 9's wouldn't be out of the question.  I guess convincing Jo would be the hardest part.  LOL

Hi Ron

welcome to the lounge :)  thankyou

This is a total different car, will be in the UK, its getting there slowly but running the new cabrio takes most of my spare time and money.

Jo's car will stay as it is, we have done a few things to make it more competitive for Pro gas and she is happy chipping away at the ET's in it, when we get the state license issue in the rules figured out she will race over there again in Pro gas.
Will be getting some laps in at irwindale when we are back next so she can get more seat time


It sure would be easier to runs 10s in this car if I weighed what she does ;D


Good luck to you and Kevin at Sac, i don't think your PB will stay that way for long 8)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Old Guy on May 20, 2013, 16:24:07 pm
Richie,

I was just kidding about Jo's car.  Let me know when Jo's going to run at Irwindale and I'll come out and pit for you guys.

Is the engine all together or do you need more parts?  Let me know if you do.  I've got loads of used and new parts.  (Even heads.)

Cheers,

Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 20, 2013, 19:11:05 pm
Hi Ron


thanks,

 it will be in the fall I think, but will let you know nearer the time, the car is all together, would like to get the heads freshened and some new springs but hopefully that's all it needs for now

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Old Guy on May 21, 2013, 01:30:23 am
Hi Ron


thanks,

 it will be in the fall I think, but will let you know nearer the time, the car is all together, would like to get the heads freshened and some new springs but hopefully that's all it needs for now

cheers Richie
That's good to hear about Jo's car but I was talking about your new 10 second street car.  Let me know if you still need any parts for that project.  I'm very interested in this thread.  I haven't used nitrous since early 1973.  I'll tell you that ancient story some time.

Cheers Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 21, 2013, 08:18:04 am
That's good to hear about Jo's car but I was talking about your new 10 second street car.  Let me know if you still need any parts for that project.  I'm very interested in this thread.  I haven't used nitrous since early 1973.  I'll tell you that ancient story some time.

Cheers Ron

I am still looking for some heads, I had some lined up but they decided to run them for another year, I am looking for some older comp elims,46/38 valves without a crazy port so I keep some drivability on the road, hand ported ideally, I got most of the rest of it now

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Old Guy on May 21, 2013, 16:02:33 pm
I've got several sets of new heads but nothing with valves that large.  Most of mine are 42 x 37.5 or 40 x35.5.  if you think you might be interested in any of them I'll dig some of them out and take some pictures.  One pair is a "D" port CNC copy of the old school 2222 we ran in our Super Gas car.  That car could run 11.20s at 118. I believe they are 42 x 37.5.   


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 22, 2013, 08:52:13 am
Thanks Ron,

I want the bigger valve sizes for sure, and comps seem to cope with the abuse better than a VW head.

I think the nitrous technology moved on a lot for early 70s, it is in theory a lot more manageable and less likely to break stuff now, but we all know sh$t happens ;)

thanks to your input a couple of people have offered me heads now so its all helping to keep the project moving forward 8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Red Rooster on May 23, 2013, 21:02:35 pm
Ritchie I am doing very similar head wise although starting with bare casting with no seats or guides and doing my own to use old nascar valves etc and keep the ports small enough for the street.

Also so I can pick my valve sizes to suit running a lot of gas.

I had considered the 46x40 heads initially to help get the extra gas out from running on the bottle and still be able to run an off the shelf cam, what's your thoughts on that??

I dropped that idea in favour of doing my own after a conversation where I discovered the comp elims have the same valve seat for both 46 & 48 intakes, apparently the throat and seat are way to big for a 46 valve and the flow figures are terrible. I know your working with off the shelf parts but would the 40 exhaust valve be of more use?

I have also worked a plan out to add some additional cooling into the stock fins which I am keen to try out also to try and keep the temps down on the street I'm just awaiting a little more info on the final width/depth ratio for maximum efficiency from a guy who specialises in heat management for modern electronics and motors. the plan is to machine some smaller narrower and shallower slots into the 4 middle fins leaving the outer fins thick to stop them being damaged to easily. This should add a decent amount of extra surface area if done correctly.

Dave


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 24, 2013, 08:12:42 am
Ritchie I am doing very similar head wise although starting with bare casting with no seats or guides and doing my own to use old nascar valves etc and keep the ports small enough for the street.

Also so I can pick my valve sizes to suit running a lot of gas.

I had considered the 46x40 heads initially to help get the extra gas out from running on the bottle and still be able to run an off the shelf cam, what's your thoughts on that??

I dropped that idea in favour of doing my own after a conversation where I discovered the comp elims have the same valve seat for both 46 & 48 intakes, apparently the throat and seat are way to big for a 46 valve and the flow figures are terrible. I know your working with off the shelf parts but would the 40 exhaust valve be of more use?

I have also worked a plan out to add some additional cooling into the stock fins which I am keen to try out also to try and keep the temps down on the street I'm just awaiting a little more info on the final width/depth ratio for maximum efficiency from a guy who specialises in heat management for modern electronics and motors. the plan is to machine some smaller narrower and shallower slots into the 4 middle fins leaving the outer fins thick to stop them being damaged to easily. This should add a decent amount of extra surface area if done correctly.

Dave

Hi Dave
there is a good reason I am looking for an older set of heads, well 2 actually, the 2nd being I am cheap ;D   And the earlier heads don't have the valves moved over as much, so in my opinion the 46/38 combo is a good as it gets with that casting, with the newer casting I would use the 48/40 option, that's what I use in my turbo motors, presumably if you are using old nascar valves then they are Ti? in which case I would use the new casting and the 48/40 valves, you can still get good port speed if they are hand ported right.
I am interested in what you find out about the extra cooling possibilities, comps are useable on the street for sure, but any extra help they can get would be good :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Red Rooster on May 29, 2013, 20:53:17 pm
Yeah they will be ti with beryllium copper seats.

The valves will be machine down to suit my needs. Possibly 7mm stems as they are more readily available but I want to keep as much reliability as possible and there are still quite a lot of 5/16" valves out there.

I will update you on the cooling side of things when I know more but I think we are close to an optimum.

Out of curiosity does anyone know the thickness of the fins and the gap between them on the JPM heads? My heat guy thinks given the amount of fins if they are to the same depth as a VW style head they are on paper too deep to be at their optimum.

However from practice we all know they cool very well, as I say its more curiosity than anything else. as he said its not just surface area as the thickness and the length of the fins all determine their efficiency. that's before you get into materials and varying airflow etc.

Dave


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: ibg on May 30, 2013, 15:19:37 pm
Fins 2.4- 2.5 thick, 2.35 space, 10 fins.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Red Rooster on May 30, 2013, 23:11:33 pm
Thanks for that.

Given we are working with the stock comp elim fins which are approx 6mm wide we where looking at about 2mm fins with a 2mm gap by about 3/4 depth of the main air passages.

Its not quite optimum as the gap should be wider but I don't want to compromise the strength of the fins too much.

Its still going to increase the surface area significantly even if we leave the outer two fins alone!

Cheers

David


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on June 02, 2013, 00:02:58 am
Answer: Not as much as a 8........ LOL

Well done again.

Russell


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 04, 2013, 21:24:07 pm
Thanks to Anthony[ No bars] for putting me in touch with someone selling some heads that met the specs I was looking for :)  I have now purchased them so another piece of the puzzle is found, I nearly have everything for the engine now so when I get some time I will do the mockup and see how it all goes together.

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: NoBars on June 06, 2013, 04:43:55 am
Got to help 2 people!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 11:03:06 am
Well with another winter here and no racing to occupy me I have returned to this car/plans. I have bought some parts over the the last few months for this and am actually quite near have everything to create a running driving car.

I got a good deal on a pair of heads, manifolds[ida pattern] and CB ratio rockers so these are what I will use.

The engine spec is complete[ well in my head anyway ;D ]
2276
Mag case, usual mods
DPR welded crank with matching flywheel
Scat rods
Wiseco pistons
AA cylinders
CB comp eliminator heads & match ported iDA pattern manifolds
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
Engle cam, Scat lifters
Scat sump
Stock VW head studs, 8mm
WBX push rod tubes
Manton push rods[ I would really like to try ally push rods but they are to expensive to fit this criteria]
1 3/4 header

   


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on November 27, 2013, 11:13:34 am
So now that you are that close to have a complete car, how about setting a time goal for this project? I think the ultimate test would be to drive it to SCC 2014, race it there and drive it back home  ;D

(oh yes, I am trying to trick you to come to SCC next year also ;) )


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 12:12:03 pm
So now that you are that close to have a complete car, how about setting a time goal for this project? I think the ultimate test would be to drive it to SCC 2014, race it there and drive it back home  ;D

(oh yes, I am trying to trick you to come to SCC next year also ;) )

I am hoping to run it next summer, but it wont be going up there when I have good track 2 1/2 hours away ;)  I think driving it 2 1/2 hours each way and running 10s would be enough of an accomplishment for this year, at least here when it is raining at the track I can get a cup of tea ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 12:16:48 pm
So having bought the 5x130 rear drums I needed some wheels to fit, there was only going to be one choice for me :o :D So I got these at sensible money, maybe not the cheapest option but a good compromise wheel for road and .

I also took a stock VW fan and tigged it up, I didn't use any welding rod so as to keep it as balanced as possible, as I will take the belt off at the track it is not so important


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 12:22:43 pm
this is the only pieces from the nitrous incarnation of the old cabrio I will be re using, a berg 1 3/4 header, and a nitrous bottle, the one on the right came with a cheap nitrous set I bought for this project


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on November 27, 2013, 13:45:34 pm
Hi Richy,

Good to see you re starting this project again.
My floorpan is nearly finished and will be primed soon. When the car is finished I also will be using nitrous. Does the nitrous need any mods to the floorpan that I should do before I am priming it?

Cheers Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 14:41:47 pm
Hi Richy,

Good to see you re starting this project again.
My floorpan is nearly finished and will be primed soon. When the car is finished I also will be using nitrous. Does the nitrous need any mods to the floorpan that I should do before I am priming it?

Cheers Paul.
[/quote

Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?  :o :D  I don't believe it ??? ;D

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on November 27, 2013, 15:19:37 pm


Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?  :o :D  I don't believe it ??? ;D

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

woahahahahahaha ;-)

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on November 27, 2013, 15:49:07 pm
Well with another winter here and no racing to occupy me I have returned to this car/plans. I have bought some parts over the the last few months for this and am actually quite near have everything to create a running driving car.

I got a good deal on a pair of heads, manifolds[ida pattern] and CB ratio rockers so these are what I will use.

The engine spec is complete[ well in my head anyway ;D ]
2276
Mag case, usual mods
DPR welded crank with matching flywheel
Scat rods
Wiseco pistons
AA cylinders


CB comp eliminator heads & match ported iDA pattern manifolds
CB 1.4 ratio rockers
Engle cam, Scat lifters
Scat sump
Stock VW head studs, 8mm
WBX push rod tubes
Manton push rods[ I would really like to try ally push rods but they are to expensive to fit this criteria]
1 3/4 header

  

Hey Richie,

Glad to hear your back onto this project and look forward to reading the progress updates and the results of test n tune next year  

Any tech details for us on what valve sizes you went for in the Comp Elims, what Compression Ratio your aiming for ?

How about cam grind and rod length ?

Are you planning to run radials out back or DOT's or Slicks ?

You had a completely valid point up at Shakey last year when you ribbed me over the use of DOT's and I'm now thinking next year of just running radials  

Cheers,

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on November 27, 2013, 16:33:54 pm
Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?  :o :D  I don't believe it ??? ;D

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

Hi Rich,
Be nice :D.
Yes I want to finish it, I already changed my mind so many times I think I am done changing.
The bottle will be in the rear seat area. I am thinking to keep all the solenoids and stuff somewhere in the gearbox area and the vent line can go trough the luggage compartment floor. But this has nothing to do with the chassis. The fuelpump will be mounted up front and I already have two big fuel lines trough the chassis.

Cheers Paul.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fahrvergnugen on November 27, 2013, 16:35:15 pm

woahahahahahaha ;-)

Michael

You hush ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 18:18:18 pm

 
Hey Richie,

Glad to hear your back onto this project and look forward to reading the progress updates and the results of test n tune next year  

Any tech details for us on what valve sizes you went for in the Comp Elims, what Compression Ratio your aiming for ?

How about cam grind and rod length ?

Are you planning to run radials out back or DOT's or Slicks ?

You had a completely valid point up at Shakey last year when you ribbed me over the use of DOT's and I'm now thinking next year of just running radials  

Cheers,

Shane.

Hi Shane

thanks, well I thought it was time someone shut Danny up ::) :D

Here's an honest answer, the main reason for most things is cost/hp

Heads, what they came with ;D

Compression, what it ends up at with a sensible deck :o

Cam, I got 4 different grinds here to choose, but the one I used before is here and checks out good so proberly that as its free ;)

Rod length, again down to cost

Tyres, for the road some 205/65/15s that came of a friends car and I couldn't sell, so are cheap, do you see a theme here yet?  ;D

 



But to answer factually/properly, ;)

heads 46/38, they are the older casting without the valves moved over so much

compression just over 10/1, getting the deck height were I want it will be more important to me

cam, I got a 46, 47, 87 or 89 but also a used 47, I think they would all do the job

rods 5.4, keep it narrow, don't need long cylinders[cost more] and get shorter push rods as a bonus

 I also got some new second hand M&H drag radials I will try just to see, but ultimately some M&H slicks[ used, chosen as they were cheap]

I am not hung up on having the "cool look at me parts or any stupid must do rules" just to keep the internet warriors happy ::) , and mainly will concentrate on cost, performance and safety[ hence the slicks] 
To me its safer on a drag strip prepped for slicks to use slicks when pushing yourself and the car to the limits

A proper True legal street car might need a bunch of stuff only VOSA would know about[ wheels safety tested and EEC approved and exhaust noise springs to mind ]  I will leave it at that.


So far I managed to keep to the intended path apart from two things, the wheels and throttle bodies [that are on there way] but even then they were both a deal for what they are

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 27, 2013, 18:26:18 pm
Hi Paul

so you want to finish the pan and not change you mind and do it again?  :o :D  I don't believe it ??? ;D

Where will you mount the bottle? then were will you run the main nitrous feed line to the solenoid? then if you have the bottle in the car with you it must have a vent tube to outside the cabin

cheers Richie

Hi Rich,
Be nice :D.
Yes I want to finish it, I already changed my mind so many times I think I am done changing.
The bottle will be in the rear seat area. I am thinking to keep all the solenoids and stuff somewhere in the gearbox area and the vent line can go trough the luggage compartment floor. But this has nothing to do with the chassis. The fuelpump will be mounted up front and I already have two big fuel lines trough the chassis.

Cheers Paul.


Sounds like you are done then, get it painted before you do change you mind ;D


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on November 27, 2013, 20:51:54 pm
Yep, see the theme  ;D and why not !! After all it's kind of mentioned in the title I guess  :D

Parts list and tech specs and options look good and definetly street and nothing too exotic there.....

Talking about Danny  :D and I'm sure he's gonna chip in pretty soon( hello Danny ) , his 2276 with efi reworked 044's 10:5 CR and fk87 pretty sure he squeezed high 10's consistenly in lil lizzie with an 80 shot of NOS....???  I know it wasn't street legal at the time and he wasn't driving to and from the tracks etc but don't think the car was too far off being as street legal as say mine is ? So pretty good benchmark to aim at for you ?

Did you have an upper limit in mind for the amount of NOS you would add to push your 2276 into the 10 zone ?

It's going to be real interesting indeed and best of luck with this project.

Cheers Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on November 27, 2013, 23:52:36 pm
im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 28, 2013, 11:03:34 am
im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project  :D


Been there, seen it, done it :P   Hope you actually try though, it would be interesting to see how you get on compared to my efforts back then


Shane

somewhere around 80hp should do it, a lot of it will depend on what the car ends up weighing.

I figure I should be able to put as much in as the engine makes N/A so about 180/190hp more, maybe I can turn it into "how much money to run 9s in a street car" then  :o ;)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on November 28, 2013, 18:54:17 pm
im thinking about a how much to run 10s in a street legal vert project  :D


Been there, seen it, done it :P   Hope you actually try though, it would be interesting to see how you get on compared to my efforts back then


Shane

somewhere around 80hp should do it, a lot of it will depend on what the car ends up weighing.

I figure I should be able to put as much in as the engine makes N/A so about 180/190hp more, maybe I can turn it into "how much money to run 9s in a street car" then  :o ;)


cheers Richie

ill be sticking with the racecar next year but it is in my mind to see how fast i can go befroe the box shits itself .i know the engine with gas will run 11s easy but my main thing is i dont want to put a cage in the car and fuck going fast without one  :o :D
how fast didi you go on gas in th vert? out of intrest?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on November 29, 2013, 06:49:25 am
what size tyres will you fit on the gas burners? and what is the maximum size without too much compromise in safety, handling,… ?



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 29, 2013, 09:14:45 am

i dont want to put a cage in the car and fuck going fast without one  :o :D




Agreed they need a cage for sure




how fast didi you go on gas in th vert? out of intrest?


10.88 best


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 29, 2013, 09:16:24 am
what size tyres will you fit on the gas burners? and what is the maximum size without too much compromise in safety, handling,… ?




205 is fine, I would run a 215/65/15 drag radial no problem, and the wide [7inch] phoenix fitted no problem on the old cab

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: johandryselius on November 29, 2013, 10:31:57 am
Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 29, 2013, 18:33:31 pm
Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan

Hi Johan,

they dont sound cheap unless you are giving me some?  :D   I will just use stock vw 8mm studs, they work fine for what I am doing


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 29, 2013, 18:48:18 pm
With the engine plans sorted in my head the gearbox was next, as I haven't found a bargain "zero pass race box" with the ratios I need I have been looking for internals, I got a good IRS box for a core cheap, I also got a deal on some lightly used 3rd and 4th gears, 1 pair are here and the others on there way.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on November 29, 2013, 20:35:00 pm
what was the gearbox you used to run on gas ? 091 first gear stock mod or full weddle/ftc internals? i always wondered how much more i could get from my stock mod box when i upgraded to ftc internals and a spool  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 29, 2013, 21:17:59 pm
mid 11s with the stock VW super beetle mainshaft 3.78 1st gear, no 091 mods, then broke it hitting the gas to hard off the line and went to a same ratio 1st and slightly better 2nd erco mainshaft ,with better ratio 3rd and 4th and went 11.12 with no other changes.

cheers Richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: johandryselius on November 30, 2013, 23:29:32 pm
Richie!
Do you need some Raceware cylinder/head studs for the engine? I have new sets in mid january (8 & 10 mm).
Johan

Hi Johan,

they dont sound cheap unless you are giving me some?  :D   I will just use stock vw 8mm studs, they work fine for what I am doing


cheers Richie
Richie!
That's fine - if you change your mind - let me know!
:)
Johan


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on December 15, 2013, 00:23:13 am
Hi Richie,

Are the crank and flywheel you are using wedgemated?
If not will it stay together alright?
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on December 15, 2013, 00:27:31 am
my 8 dowel crank and flywheel held together fine on old motor and that ran 10s a fair few times .its on the dyno now in its detuned state for cab project and crank /flywheel is all good  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 15, 2013, 10:38:33 am
The old nitrous engine was just 8 dowelled and it held up ok so no reason it cant work, wedgemating is just extra insurance. A lot depends on how its put together, some people seem to manage to break the flywheel off easy, others don't, I can't explain why that is  ???.


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on December 15, 2013, 16:43:48 pm
The old nitrous engine was just 8 dowelled and it held up ok so no reason it cant work, wedgemating is just extra insurance. A lot depends on how its put together, some people seem to manage to break the flywheel off easy, others don't, I can't explain why that is  ???.


cheers Richie

Thanks Richie,
As you know I had some concerns on my CB crank for the new motor I am getting ready. There just doesn't seem to be any decent wedgemated cranks out there for sale at the moment

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on December 15, 2013, 17:05:10 pm
just use a really big spanner to tighten it up lee  ;)  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on December 15, 2013, 19:28:53 pm
just use a really big spanner to tighten it up lee  ;)  :D

Will an adjustable spanner work? :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on December 15, 2013, 20:17:34 pm
mole grips are fine  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on December 15, 2013, 21:09:58 pm
Hell, you two are just butchers! Weld it and be done! :D

Serious question on a related note - what gland nut will you use Richie?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: LGK on December 15, 2013, 21:22:43 pm
HI Richie,

You're mentioning that you wanted to put the ally pushrods but they are "to expensive" to meet the criteria? As i see you bought some genuine Gasburners...even at a very modest pricelevel you said? So then i really doubt that the ally pushrods wouldn't meet the criteria regarding "budget" if you don't mind me asking???
I suppose the gasburners weren't for free neither?
So let's be honest; You're really looking on 200€ for Ally pushrods? Or is it just because you doubt they will hold on with the K-800 springs?
I'm just asking cause i came across your topic which is again a nice challenge,but i would really like to see you use something different instead of the old trusted "engle camshaft" and the manton chromo noise-knockers...anyway you proved more then once you can "bend those manton suckers" as a cigarette with two fingers !! ;D ;D ;D

Hang on Buddy!

All the best Steve.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 15, 2013, 21:40:31 pm

Serious question on a related note - what gland nut will you use Richie?

Going on the " I sell what I use" it has to be a Scat, since we got them in 36mm I haven't used anything else, the Bergs are good but aren't often available and are way more £££s

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 15, 2013, 22:00:55 pm
HI Richie,

You're mentioning that you wanted to put the ally pushrods but they are "to expensive" to meet the criteria? As i see you bought some genuine Gasburners...even at a very modest pricelevel you said? So then i really doubt that the ally pushrods wouldn't meet the criteria regarding "budget" if you don't mind me asking???
I suppose the gasburners weren't for free neither?
So let's be honest; You're really looking on 200€ for Ally pushrods? Or is it just because you doubt they will hold on with the K-800 springs?
I'm just asking cause i came across your topic which is again a nice challenge,but i would really like to see you use something different instead of the old trusted "engle camshaft" and the manton chromo noise-knockers...anyway you proved more then once you can "bend those manton suckers" as a cigarette with two fingers !! ;D ;D ;D

Hang on Buddy!

All the best Steve.

Hi Steve


some interesting points you make there,
I will start with the wheels, I just couldn't help myself ;D  Seriously whatever we build, even to a budget it has to have a look we as the owner/driver like and I wasn't finding anything that was a sensible weight, strong enough to survive a few wheelies etc and sized to take a slick that I liked and was still ok money wise, a new set of Ercos would have cost more than I got the gasburners for and it seems every car has them.
I didn't know that there are ally pushrods that will take the spring pressure I will use for that money, I was thinking another 100 euros on top of what you quoted, and the original idea for this was to try re create a combo that lots out there already have close too in N/A form and then add the nitrous and see what you gain from it. Having seen some new dual tapered ally pushrods fail spectacularly this summer I know anything can and will fail just like my experience with the mantons a few years ago.

I am not trying to use all the latest greatest parts and tricks as the budget is not going to stretch to say JPM cam, followers/pushrods and springs as much as I would like to try them as the other 2 cars will always get the majority of my time and budget[ new engine for the old car for next year and some new things for the new cab as well] unless you want to send me some to try? I am sure you have plenty of spare just gathering dust :o ;D

And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  :o :'( cheap stuff I am fine with :D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fonz on December 17, 2013, 13:13:11 pm
And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  :o :'( cheap stuff I am fine with :D

cheers Richie

Time to stock up on more nappies?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 30, 2013, 22:19:51 pm
And finally I intend pushing this engine to the limit and way beyond after I achieve the 10 sec drive to the track and back goals, just to see how quick it will go and I don't want to leave a lot of very expensive parts in the trash can at the track  :o :'( cheap stuff I am fine with :D

cheers Richie

Time to stock up on more nappies?

Sort of, I put oil containment trays on all the cars now, they are just a little more substantial than what we used back then ;) ;D



I got another piece of the puzzle come in the mail today, some IDA pattern jenvey throttle bodies :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 02, 2014, 15:00:51 pm
They are nice Richie,
What do they work out price wise? I appreciate you would need injectors and an ecu on top.
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2014, 15:29:20 pm
They were used Lee, I got them off the for sale adds on here

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2014, 15:38:45 pm
Got me thinking about cost of a typical IDA/MSD/Holley pump and regulator cost compared to the Throttle bodies/crank trigger/ECU etc, I need to look into that some more but I did wonder about weight difference so I got a 48 ida I had to hand and compared it to the throttle body with a pair of injectors to get a more even comparision, quite a difference and that's just for one :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shag55 on January 02, 2014, 16:17:00 pm
Nice Richie but I think those Moran injectors are a little over kill for this project. Lol!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 02, 2014, 18:13:52 pm
lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2014, 19:01:17 pm
lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup

I did a search on a EFI kit and with just needing a fuel pump and lines you are looking at about £1800-2000 for a complete set up inc fuel pressure reg even & everything else needed.

For 48 ida set up with good used Italian IDAs or New Spanish  and all the MSD stuff needed with a 2 step as well[ EFI has all this included already] so with MSD dizzy, coil, 6Al-2 box & leads and a pair of IDAs with new vents you are looking at around £1550-1700  so their is not a lot of difference and you don't need a big jet box either :o ;D

cheers Richie

 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on January 02, 2014, 19:53:17 pm
and you can tune it properly  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 03, 2014, 08:43:52 am
lee i dont think there is much cost difference in efi over a pair of decent 51 idas and a full msd setup

I did a search on a EFI kit and with just needing a fuel pump and lines you are looking at about £1800-2000 for a complete set up inc fuel pressure reg even & everything else needed.

For 48 ida set up with good used Italian IDAs or New Spanish  and all the MSD stuff needed with a 2 step as well[ EFI has all this included already] so with MSD dizzy, coil, 6Al-2 box & leads and a pair of IDAs with new vents you are looking at around £1550-1700  so their is not a lot of difference and you don't need a big jet box either :o ;D

cheers Richie

 

We use an English company called Omex on our racecars (alfa twinspark and Ford cossi).
They have programmable ignitions (Crank triggered) with or without FI, for those compu nerds at the Dyno place these days (really) easy to tune.
They use standard waste spark ford coils, so as you said not a lot more expensive then a MSD set up.
maybe have a look there.
http://omextechnology.co.uk/index.html
I know the next ignition I buy is programmable one.

Regards Edgar

(Ps Oh and they sell complete sets for different cars and set ups)

(2nd PS the complete sets they sell are also with jenvey throttle body s)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 04, 2014, 10:11:25 am
Enough talking has been done so time do actually make this happen. So starting with the engine, I am not going to go into every detail, we all know the basis of what makes them work :)
I am going to use remote oil pressure relief so 1st thing was to block off the bleed hole for the pulley end oil plunger, simple drill out and tap for a plug, at the flywheel end I just use two plungers and shorten one slightly so they are bottomed out tight when the plug is fitted.
Then everything got cleaned and assembled, short motor now together so deck height next

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 04, 2014, 10:15:40 am
Need to fit the flywheel and check end play then onto the top end


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on January 04, 2014, 19:59:31 pm
Awesome to see parts going together :) can't wait


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 07, 2014, 20:00:36 pm
Got a couple of hours in today so got the end play done and flywheel on, clearanced the pulley tin for the full flow fitting and sorted out some good usable tin for the rest of the engine, found a used alternator and stand as well.

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on January 07, 2014, 20:19:51 pm
please tell me more about the oiling system. i am still debating whether to use the original cooler or not and what would be the benefit/drawback of each setup.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 07, 2014, 21:27:03 pm
please tell me more about the oiling system. i am still debating whether to use the original cooler or not and what would be the benefit/drawback of each setup.


Hi Nicolas

There are several things I am doing here, I have deleted the oil cooler in the shroud to use all the air from the fan to go to the heads and cylinders then will use an external cooler to take care of keeping the oil at a happy temperature.
This then allows me to remove the stock oil cooler relief valve so I plug the case were it would bleed pressure off which seals it, then at the flywheel end as it is difficult to block the bleed  hole I use 2 plungers, one upside down which are then slightly longer in total than the plug allows so I shorten one slightly so that when the plug is tightened it squashes them both and seals the top hole off stopping any oil escaping that way.
Then I use a oil filter head with a pressure relief valve built in that bleeds back to a fitting welded into the sump, this means any extra un-needed oil that the pump is trying to push round goes straight back to the sump were it is needed most, not into the case to be thrown around and slowed down on its return to the sump.

The extra bonus to this is that the flywheel bleed hole goes into the number 3 exhaust lifter area normally which then forces lots more oil into the 3/4 valve cover, with this mod the level in that cover is alot lower that it would otherwise be and that helps case breathing in my opinion as well. I don't then vent that valve cover anymore

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 09, 2014, 16:43:57 pm
Any more progress Richie?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2014, 20:16:47 pm
Any more progress Richie?

Nope, haven't had much spare time and I have put it to one side as i am waiting for some pistons to arrive to do deck height as I used the set I had here for a customer, so have been putting the New cab engine together to get that out the way.

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on January 12, 2014, 23:50:22 pm
Enough talking has been done so time do actually make this happen. So starting with the engine, I am not going to go into every detail, we all know the basis of what makes them work :)
I am going to use remote oil pressure relief so 1st thing was to block off the bleed hole for the pulley end oil plunger, simple drill out and tap for a plug, at the flywheel end I just use two plungers and shorten one slightly so they are bottomed out tight when the plug is fitted.
Then everything got cleaned and assembled, short motor now together so deck height next

cheers Richie

Is this something that may be worth doing for a milder street engine that is being rebuilt soon?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 13, 2014, 10:21:21 am
Enough talking has been done so time do actually make this happen. So starting with the engine, I am not going to go into every detail, we all know the basis of what makes them work :)
I am going to use remote oil pressure relief so 1st thing was to block off the bleed hole for the pulley end oil plunger, simple drill out and tap for a plug, at the flywheel end I just use two plungers and shorten one slightly so they are bottomed out tight when the plug is fitted.
Then everything got cleaned and assembled, short motor now together so deck height next

cheers Richie

Is this something that may be worth doing for a milder street engine that is being rebuilt soon?

Hi Ron

there are lots of variables and it isn't for everyone for sure

I will Pm you about it reference the engine you mentioned


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on January 14, 2014, 21:18:31 pm
ta


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on January 25, 2014, 02:00:43 am
Good to see this on the go again.
Like the sound of your oil system


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on November 18, 2014, 09:57:23 am
hallo Richie,

are still working on this project?

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 18, 2014, 16:57:58 pm
hi Henk

I haven't been much, but am still, the heater channels were welded to the pan and I decided rather than just patch it I would swap in new channels and pan halves, I just haven't had time or room to do that yet, with some other projects leaving I now have room, next just need the time :o ;D

I have got all the mechanical stuff so the actual build should be pretty quick

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on November 18, 2014, 21:58:08 pm
Like always,time.
Good it isn't  stopt complete.
Looking forward for some progress.

Henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 19, 2014, 15:14:27 pm
So my new pan halves should be here in the next couple of weeks so over xmas beak I am going to cut the old pans out, convert it to IRS, put adjusters in the beam,put that back together and get everything ready so as soon as they I arrive I can get them on and drop the body back on to do the heater channels, then the plan is to take it to get the cage done as soon as it can be fitted in, hoping to get it back end of february and put it all together as a mock up build and go from their.

Would be nice to be able to drive it by time Volksworld show is on


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2015, 19:25:23 pm
Finally got started, after clearing all the junk that had piled up on the pan over the last 6 months I dragged it out and finished stripping it, the rust had taken hold bad enough that new pans were definately needed


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2015, 19:30:35 pm
I stripped the old pans off and then as I dont have the new pan halfs yet I moved onto the IRS conversion, removing the un needed swingaxle plates, then cutting out the frame forks to allow the IRS bracket to fit in place with the aid of the jigs


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on January 02, 2015, 19:58:36 pm
idiot question prehaps, but how many shims are used in an IRS setup (between the brackets) and are they left and right from the arms?
it's that i have never had a setup that was original or complete to start with.



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 02, 2015, 20:04:59 pm
idiot question prehaps, but how many shims are used in an IRS setup (between the brackets) and are they left and right from the arms?
it's that i have never had a setup that was original or complete to start with.




Hi Nicolas


2 washer/shims per side on everything i have worked on, and they seem to usually seem to be on the same side of the arm, mainly on the inside next to the frame fork but i do set the ones I convert to one on each side

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: kev d on January 02, 2015, 23:31:57 pm
Coming on nicely mate 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on January 03, 2015, 07:46:07 am
idiot question prehaps, but how many shims are used in an IRS setup (between the brackets) and are they left and right from the arms?
it's that i have never had a setup that was original or complete to start with.




Hi Nicolas


2 washer/shims per side on everything i have worked on, and they seem to usually seem to be on the same side of the arm, mainly on the inside next to the frame fork but i do set the ones I convert to one on each side

cheers Richie

OK thank you. i'll hopefully can work on the chassis and do it correct now.

take care.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 03, 2015, 19:54:38 pm
Finished fitting the other side, then put a solid gearbox mount in to stop the frame forks moving while I weld it up.


Next I put a gearbox in and fitted a mid mount, it fitted really well without any grinding or clearancing which is nice


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 03, 2015, 19:58:39 pm
Mid mount welded in, next onto the beam and fitting the adjusters, next I need to clearance the frame forks for the CVs


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 05, 2015, 19:52:19 pm
Today I got time to clearance the frame forks for the CVs, I allowed some extra room for a 930 size  CV "just in case I want to go bigger" later ;D  Also while I was in their I seam welded the frame forks outer edges, I have seen them split open on real high milage stock cars and high Hp cars that have had a hard life, it was easier to do it now than go back in later

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lee.C on January 07, 2015, 19:53:30 pm
Nice work.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on January 07, 2015, 23:46:20 pm
Now the frame forks have been clearanced.  They seem a lot thinner than stock.  What do you think the chances of bending are?  I know you have seam welded them which will add some strength, but they just look fragile to me.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 08, 2015, 11:45:15 am
Now the frame forks have been clearanced.  They seem a lot thinner than stock.  What do you think the chances of bending are?  I know you have seam welded them which will add some strength, but they just look fragile to me.

^^ this and why not just raise the trans like +/- 2cm... never see people do that on streetcars??? is that because of space problems.???
It lowers the tires neatly in the wings also.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on January 08, 2015, 12:25:35 pm
never see people do that on streetcars??? is that because of space problems.???
It lowers the tires neatly in the wings also.

Then you have to look closer. Lowering the rear "Pro Stock" style is more or less a standard lowering method in Sweden  :) Not everyone like the style and you do run into some other challenges too.

Best rgs
BB


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 08, 2015, 14:36:31 pm
I reckon Richie knows what he's doing ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 08, 2015, 19:56:01 pm
Now the frame forks have been clearanced.  They seem a lot thinner than stock.  What do you think the chances of bending are?  I know you have seam welded them which will add some strength, but they just look fragile to me.

^^ this and why not just raise the trans like +/- 2cm... never see people do that on streetcars??? is that because of space problems.???
It lowers the tires neatly in the wings also.

Raising an IRS trans doesnt do anything to the tyres height, what is does do though is move the engine up the same amount creating several issues, shroud can hit decklid hinges, big carbs or throttle bodies hit decklid, engine tin doesnt seal round edges anymore, standard merged header hits rear apron

 
cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 08, 2015, 20:00:38 pm
Now the frame forks have been clearanced.  They seem a lot thinner than stock.  What do you think the chances of bending are?  I know you have seam welded them which will add some strength, but they just look fragile to me.

Its possible that they will bend the last 10-12cm maybe, factory IRS is also thinner their and vw thought it was ok, the cage will tie in just in front of the axle which helps but the section after isnt supported, but you have to remember with a solid mouted trans its all tied together through the trans as well, th eweld in mid mount would have to bend for anything to happen, also a traction bar would help even more.

I have consider adding a tube under the frame forks long ways to add some extra bracing as well, still thinking about that one


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 08, 2015, 20:03:29 pm
never see people do that on streetcars??? is that because of space problems.???
It lowers the tires neatly in the wings also.

Then you have to look closer. Lowering the rear "Pro Stock" style is more or less a standard lowering method in Sweden  :) Not everyone like the style and you do run into some other challenges too.

Best rgs
BB

Do they do raised torsion housing or just raised trans?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on January 08, 2015, 20:58:52 pm

Do they do raised torsion housing or just raised trans?

cheers Richie

They raise the torsion housing. I have plenty of pics if interested.

Best rgs
BB


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on January 09, 2015, 09:52:20 am
I know the intention of this post was to build a 10 sec street car cheap... but fuck me by the time this is finished we wont be allowed to use pump gas cars on the street (2008-2015) even Wray could beat this....

Now sitting back and waiting for the abuse  ;D

Happy New Year.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2015, 10:11:12 am
I know the intention of this post was to build a 10 sec street car cheap... but fuck me by the time this is finished we wont be allowed to use pump gas cars on the street (2008-2015) even Wray could beat this....

Now sitting back and waiting for the abuse  ;D

Happy New Year.

you finished that 67 yet?  :o :P :D

I have been waiting for unleaded to get below 50p a litrre so I could afford to drive it and it looks close now :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2015, 10:12:08 am

Do they do raised torsion housing or just raised trans?

cheers Richie

They raise the torsion housing. I have plenty of pics if interested.

Best rgs
BB

Please do, but it wont gain any cv to frame fork clearance will it?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 09, 2015, 11:14:01 am
Now the frame forks have been clearanced.  They seem a lot thinner than stock.  What do you think the chances of bending are?  I know you have seam welded them which will add some strength, but they just look fragile to me.

^^ this and why not just raise the trans like +/- 2cm... never see people do that on streetcars??? is that because of space problems.???
It lowers the tires neatly in the wings also.

Raising an IRS trans doesnt do anything to the tyres height, what is does do though is move the engine up the same amount creating several issues, shroud can hit decklid hinges, big carbs or throttle bodies hit decklid, engine tin doesnt seal round edges anymore, standard merged header hits rear apron

 
cheers Richie

Ok, already thought that was the reason for it. But had to ask.
Silly of me, forgot the Irs is double jointed, so does nothing for height.
Thanks.
Keep the pics comming.  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on January 09, 2015, 11:22:50 am

Do they do raised torsion housing or just raised trans?

cheers Richie

They raise the torsion housing. I have plenty of pics if interested.

Best rgs
BB

Please do, but it wont gain any cv to frame fork clearance will it?

cheers Richie

^^ Me too  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on January 09, 2015, 18:41:43 pm
Here we go then, the first car is from Turbo Town and the pictures are stolen from a Swedish forum;

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8214384365_1cd08a118f_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8349/8214384659_54324875a1_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8214384891_0eba0bd5c4_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8061/8215469834_70345a3afe_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8214384459_5f5b286a8f_z.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/9318459863_03d683ca1c_z.jpg)

I think it looks supercool;

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3832/9321248412_0ac1c2036a_z.jpg)

This cool car is also from Sweden:

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000188.jpg?m=1420824866)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000190n.jpg?m=1420824876)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010759lj.jpg?m=1420824882)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030611tt.jpg?m=1420824894)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030615.jpg?m=1420824905)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010797j.jpg?m=1420824945)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030601g.jpg?m=1420824927)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1040424.jpg?m=1420825234)

Best rgs
BB


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 09, 2015, 19:28:59 pm
Thanks Kalle, lots of work going on their :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jon on January 09, 2015, 20:25:26 pm
Seems like a lot of work to keep the frame forks. I understand why volkswagen had them, (to be able to fit the engine before the body) but people with cages don't need them.  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 10, 2015, 18:45:23 pm
Got some progress today, had to do some repairs to the Napoleons hat as it was full of filler not metal!!! Need to do some to the bottom frame head plate last 30mm as well, its cut out but dont have a panel to do that so ordered one.

Didnt stop me getting the pan halves in though :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 10, 2015, 18:58:02 pm
What paint finish have you got planned? Are you blasting before paint?
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 10, 2015, 19:26:54 pm
What paint finish have you got planned? Are you blasting before paint?
Lee

Some ;D n

ope blasting costs to much, just do what I can with it 

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on January 11, 2015, 15:44:44 pm
Take it to Aberdeen and we can blast here, also I have a frame head base if required

Cheers


Russell


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 11, 2015, 17:32:59 pm
Take it to Aberdeen and we can blast here, also I have a frame head base if required

Cheers


Russell

Cost me more in fuel that the car is worth :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 11, 2015, 17:39:27 pm
Todays update, body is on pan, its only temporary as I will need to take it off again to finish stuff up but this will allow me to get the channels fitted etc and make the body strong again

Its quite tricky to get them together on your own but got it done, then moved onto engine stuff, trying to get it completed and run up so put it on my run stand, then got on with working on all the little stuff

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on January 11, 2015, 23:57:29 pm
Looking good    8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on January 12, 2015, 16:13:33 pm
that shell looks better everytime I look at it.... why not do a full show job on it....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on January 12, 2015, 17:27:24 pm
Where did the CR land? Which cam did you go for? Settle on 5.4" rods?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 12, 2015, 19:59:17 pm
Where did the CR land? Which cam did you go for? Settle on 5.4" rods?

Hi Zach

10.5/1, yep 5.4 rods and fk47

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 12, 2015, 20:05:32 pm
that shell looks better everytime I look at it.... why not do a full show job on it....

After cutting out one heater channel today and all the previous "repairs" on that side its pretty rough  ::) .but at least the roof doesnt need swapping!!!

And money, that and I want to be able to drive it anywhere and beat the hell out of it :o  ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on January 12, 2015, 20:16:00 pm
Thanks for the specs :)

I think you are on the right track with this, I can't imagine a cheaper/easier way to crack into the 10's than a stout street motor with a shot of gas. Curious to know how you will balance street/strip with the gear ratios though. A high 10 is about 125-ish mph? Seeing as that cam will pull to about 8500 or so, that means 3.875 and 1.21 fourth with the type one box?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 12, 2015, 20:33:32 pm
I wont be turning that rpm, no need with the gas as well, somewhere between 7600-7800rpm should do it, the gap between 1st and 2nd is the biggest hurdle, with the 4th gear i want to use it will be about 3800rpm at 65mph which I can live with

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 12, 2015, 21:29:25 pm
Anyway todays update, one channel removed, it was 3 layers thick in places were it had been "repaired" in the past, shame they didnt remove the rusty old metal 1st though!!!

I started trimming everything back to good metal and got the channel in place and put the door back on, more tomorrow


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on January 12, 2015, 21:48:28 pm
hey that looks familiar  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 12, 2015, 21:56:53 pm
hey that looks familiar  ;D

I did see yours

Twins seperated at birth?  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2015, 22:36:57 pm
Good to see you're finally getting on with the body. Any longer and you would have probably been left with only the roof and dash  :D

I got some spare L282 left too.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on January 12, 2015, 23:37:31 pm
Looking good Richie! I've cut one of the channels out of mine, it's a pain to do with the cage in the way!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on January 13, 2015, 11:50:34 am
hey that looks familiar  ;D

I did see yours

Twins seperated at birth?  :D
mine is a 1300, but rust looks the same :P


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: thehanz DVK on January 13, 2015, 19:52:19 pm


This cool car is also from Sweden:

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000188.jpg?m=1420824866)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000190n.jpg?m=1420824876)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010759lj.jpg?m=1420824882)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030611tt.jpg?m=1420824894)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030615.jpg?m=1420824905)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010797j.jpg?m=1420824945)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030601g.jpg?m=1420824927)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1040424.jpg?m=1420825234)

Best rgs
BB
[/quote]

Where can i find more i really like this car and this look , perfect for a future project , any links ?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on January 14, 2015, 12:26:19 pm
Where can i find more i really like this car and this look , perfect for a future project , any links ?

Sorry, no project link. The car was for sale amazingly cheap two years ago and I called to buy it. I got some pictures and was told that one guy called before me. The other guy bought it and he finished the car. I have since seen it race at SCC. It is a very cool car with attitude and a perfect look. Bad to the bone!

I also remember the Gemini Blue from Belgium and Rudy`s red 67.

Sorry Richie, back to topic.

Best rgs
-K-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shag55 on January 14, 2015, 18:32:23 pm
Coming along nice Richie!

That Swedish car is sweet. Very similar to how I'm doing my Notch.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 18:49:21 pm
Trying to do a couple of hours a day to keep momentum going, needed some sheet steel to make the patch panels needed to put the channel in so while I am waiting for that I got on with some other things.

Built the front hubs up, the car came with a pair of CB drop spindles so using them, got some new discs in Porsche pattern and some braided hoses so put it all together, I also gave the trailing arms a good clean and some paint


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 18:56:28 pm
While I had the wire brush out I gave the beam a good clean, put the mount for the steering dampner in the correct place[ it had 2 welded to it before and both were wrong!!! and gave it a coat of black paint as well

Then I welded a -8 fitting on the fuel tank, and one on the filler neck for the vent, still need to add a -6 for the return but need to check it will clear everything where I want it to go so will need the beam etc in for that

Next onto some body repairs, I got these simple repair pieces from hookeys panels, save some messing around


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 19:02:17 pm
All 4 corners were rotted out from sitting under trees with perished window seals, 1st one welded in, needed to do a small repair on the dash as well were the rust had spread


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 19:04:27 pm
With some cleaning up of the welds its good enough, and rust free again so moved to next corner, got that done as well.

I have started plumbing the engine as well, need to get a few fittings to finish that up but more progress was made :)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on January 15, 2015, 19:45:07 pm
Hi Richie,
You work far too fast, its depressing me:)
Did you drill the discs yourself? What's with the two sets of holes?
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 20:05:42 pm
Hi Richie,
You work far too fast, its depressing me:)
Did you drill the discs yourself? What's with the two sets of holes?
Lee

Not really that fast, just got to keep at it now and get it done. Also it needs more than I thought and I got to beat Danny with it this year ;) ;D .

Discs came like that, you can run them with the press in studs or use bolts if you wanted to


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on January 15, 2015, 20:42:27 pm
don't forget the drain holes on the window repairs


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on January 15, 2015, 21:11:56 pm
don't forget the drain holes on the window repairs

Or DO..... i've just covered mine when replacing the windscreen seal, i saw a VW bulletin on the samba about leaking issues and they covered them in weather strip i think they call it...?

Hi Richie,
what are you doing for a FI pump and filter setup? i'm trying to plan out the same thing :)



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 15, 2015, 21:46:45 pm
Hi Andy

I haven't thought about what filter yet, I will put the part number up for the pump tomorrow, its nothing fancy[read its cheap  :D ]

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on January 15, 2015, 23:04:10 pm
Hi Andy

I haven't thought about what filter yet, I will put the part number up for the pump tomorrow, its nothing fancy[read its cheap  :D ]

cheers Richie

Same, mine was 30 odd quid used off eBay with nice rubber mounts, its a Bosch out of a Volvo/porsche ect same in a lot of them! Will measure in and outs but I think I remember it being 12mm in and 8mm out... :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 16, 2015, 11:17:45 am
Pump is GSF part number 183VG0261

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on January 16, 2015, 13:50:47 pm
So you found the fuel rails then ;D ;D ;D Finally

Good work mate.

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Ole on January 16, 2015, 22:13:43 pm
I dig the carpet and the tiles...  :o

Groovy baby  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Udo on January 17, 2015, 10:14:30 am
 :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Udo on January 17, 2015, 10:17:06 am


Nice looking cars and good idea how you raised the rear ... Those swedish guys have time to build new cars :-)

Udo



Here we go then, the first car is from Turbo Town and the pictures are stolen from a Swedish forum;

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8062/8214384365_1cd08a118f_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8349/8214384659_54324875a1_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8214384891_0eba0bd5c4_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8061/8215469834_70345a3afe_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8214384459_5f5b286a8f_z.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7371/9318459863_03d683ca1c_z.jpg)

I think it looks supercool;

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3832/9321248412_0ac1c2036a_z.jpg)

This cool car is also from Sweden:

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000188.jpg?m=1420824866)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1000190n.jpg?m=1420824876)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010759lj.jpg?m=1420824882)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030611tt.jpg?m=1420824894)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030615.jpg?m=1420824905)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1010797j.jpg?m=1420824945)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1030601g.jpg?m=1420824927)

(http://www.racebilder.club/var/albums/Diverse/p1040424.jpg?m=1420825234)

Best rgs
BB


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 28, 2015, 19:34:47 pm
Bit more done, was away for a week so just getting back on it

Got lhs channel in, made some fill in pieces and its all welded in place, just need a small plate at front bottom corner and round torsion housing at rear, front will get done when I drop pan out again as its easy to get in there then, rear when the cage is done as want tubes down to torsion housing

So next I finished up the 2 rear window corners same place as fronts had rotted out, they are done and I cut out the other side heater channel


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 28, 2015, 19:43:26 pm
Also been working on the crank trigger set up and throttle linkage, Gunter@csp came up with the pieces I need to modify the Jenvey throttle bodies to work with the CSP linkage I got used a while ago, while I was at it I shortened the arm ratio as I learnt before that a beetle pedal doesn't really have enough travel for these throttle bodies

With a hidden trigger mount from Mario@dubshop I could fit the trigger, modify the tin so it fitted again, also modified a scat pulley to take Marios trigger wheel and got that fitted on and in place, just small jobs but seem to take way to much time!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on January 29, 2015, 01:35:51 am
Hey Richie -- Maybe next time you might look at the Electromotive setup for the crank trigger -- very clean setup and it comes with a modified scat pulley already setup for it

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/product/custom-trigger-wheel-kits/bug-beetle-crank-trigger-kit-220-72401/

Can't find a good picture of it on-line -- but very clean and hidden install


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on January 29, 2015, 11:29:07 am
Hey Richie -- Maybe next time you might look at the Electromotive setup for the crank trigger -- very clean setup and it comes with a modified scat pulley already setup for it

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/product/custom-trigger-wheel-kits/bug-beetle-crank-trigger-kit-220-72401/

Can't find a good picture of it on-line -- but very clean and hidden install
Doesn't get much cleaner than Mario's setup. Always nice to support those that are actually part of our community too.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 29, 2015, 11:39:32 am


Doesn't get much cleaner than Mario's setup. Always nice to support those that are actually part of our community too.


Totally agree Chip, another reason I am using his stuff :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on January 29, 2015, 17:32:36 pm
That does look neat, I made my own for my 5" dry sump pulley, old habits die hard, it's registered on the pulley boss radius so it can't go anywhere, bolts to lock and clock, uses a ford VR sensor.[attachment=1][attachment=1]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on January 29, 2015, 17:35:27 pm
Oops,[attachment=1] Didn't wanna do that... Clocked and locked and hi tech Real 22 carat metal flake coating... ;)[attachment=2]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on January 31, 2015, 00:56:44 am
What spark plugs are you using for the nitrous?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 31, 2015, 09:48:57 am
What spark plugs are you using for the nitrous?

NGK D8EA to start with, maybe will need a 9

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on January 31, 2015, 10:27:49 am

What spark plugs are you using for the nitrous?

NGK D8EA to start with, maybe will need a 9

cheers Richie

Thanks


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 01, 2015, 17:27:54 pm
RHS channel is done, moved onto rear body mounts as they had been "repaired" in past not that well so not only do they need doing again but the original metal left under neath has been rotting away nicely and now needs lots more work.

So I decided to have an easy day and mount the nitrous instead, I built up some pads by welding on the manifolds, surfaced them flat and drilled and tapped them for the foggers, then fitted it all back on the engine, need to shorten the lines up as this was a used kit, and make a mount for the solenoids next


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on February 01, 2015, 19:22:45 pm
Nice! It amazes me that people weld over rot instead of cutting it out!

What ECU are you thinking of running?
Is the dizzy our only breather hole? (I ask as I'm planning on that for a porka fan)

Cheers
Andy


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 01, 2015, 19:33:32 pm
DTA again, same as old cab but newer version S40, ebay bargain 8)

I am venting out of oil filler like stock, also 1&2 valve cover

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fastbus on February 09, 2015, 17:59:42 pm
Hi Richie,
            i see your using Comp eliminator heads with your set up.
What is the cooling ability like of these heads for street use and how much work is involved with forming the tin around them?

cheers
Paul
 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 09, 2015, 20:25:00 pm
Hi Richie,
            i see your using Comp eliminator heads with your set up.
What is the cooling ability like of these heads for street use and how much work is involved with forming the tin around them?

cheers
Paul
 

They obviously don't cool like a factory casting, but are not to bad, one of the reasons I moved the oil cooler out of the shroud is to use all the air from the fan to cool the heads and cylinders, the right compression and cam make a huge difference it just takes a little more control on the road with your right foot ;)

Tins are just trimmed to fit, no special work needed

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spoolin70 on February 09, 2015, 22:28:02 pm
Hi Richie

Did you do any mods to the fan shroud now the cooler is removed ?

Or does it actually even out the air flow to either side ?

Thanks
Darren


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 10, 2015, 09:08:16 am
Hi Richie

Did you do any mods to the fan shroud now the cooler is removed ?

Or does it actually even out the air flow to either side ?

Thanks
Darren

Nope, its designed to not have a cooler and I haven't don't any individual cylinder testing to see but at least with nothing in the way like the early oil cooler was it should get even air to each side, what the air does after that I don't know :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on February 10, 2015, 17:13:53 pm
Is this more efficient than a doghouse setup? Does it help with cooling if using a power pulley ensuring all the air gets to the heads?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spoolin70 on February 10, 2015, 20:05:18 pm
Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

I got a puma shroud (I think) for cheap that I'm planning to use. No doghouse or outlets. It's pretty beat up though so I've got no problem massaging it with a hammer - it's even got filler round the outside  ???

Keep up the good work
Darren


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 11, 2015, 19:21:44 pm
Got a couple of hours yesterday and today on it, lots of boring rust removal and finally some new metal going back in, I had to fit everything at the back to get the Hookys bumper mounts in the correct place.
Rear apron/valance is now removable as well, at least it looks like a car rather than a pile of rust now ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on February 11, 2015, 20:05:57 pm
Sounds silly but it really looks like a car now, i'd be sat in it on a box making car noises  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Pedalpusher on February 12, 2015, 07:00:28 am
Are those by any change the day moulding rear fenders as you sell them?

Man the fit is just spot on!

BR
-Mikko-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 12, 2015, 09:54:58 am
Are those by any change the day moulding rear fenders as you sell them?

Man the fit is just spot on!

BR
-Mikko-

Yes just bolted on, I have one hole that needs opening upwards slightly on the wing as it only lines up half way to the body nut but that is all I will have to do to them


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 16, 2015, 14:03:33 pm
Small update, all structural welding done on body so separated it from pan, finished the framehead repairs to pan and stripped all the old paint, underseal and seal sealer of it and prepped it for some paint, its now got a good coat of satin black on it and is currently drying, next I will build the pan up ready to go back under the body.
Its booked in to have the cage fitted in about 3 weeks so got to keep at it :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on February 16, 2015, 15:06:40 pm
floorpan looks clean.
are you not going to use one of your fiberglass '67 declklids to, gain some weight?

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 16, 2015, 15:54:15 pm
floorpan looks clean.
are you not going to use one of your fiberglass '67 declklids to, gain some weight?

henk!!!

Yes but I didn't have one with hinge panel with captive nuts in to hand so just used the metal one for mock up, helps me make sure I got it all aligned up right & straight as well


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on February 16, 2015, 16:33:28 pm
Bloody hell Richie, slow down! You're making me look bad for being so slow with my build!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 16, 2015, 18:50:03 pm
Bloody hell Richie, slow down! You're making me look bad for being so slow with my build!

I did I went to Cornwall then Scotland for a few days a week ago, now get you arse in gear and get it done :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on February 17, 2015, 08:52:52 am
Bloody hell Richie, slow down! You're making me look bad for being so slow with my build!
sayers and doers....  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 17, 2015, 19:22:47 pm
sayers and doers....  :D

today more doing and less saying just for you Danny ;D  Got the afternoon free so got some done


Rear torsions[27mm used] and spring plates set up, then jaycee retainers fitted[used]

2x fuel lines fitted in tunnel, new shift rod bush then shift rod in

Beam bolted on, arms and hubs fitted, steering all cleaned and stuff I hadn't already painted got a coat of black then fitted

also found this horror hidden under a generous layer of underseal and skim of silicon sealer, the plate wasn't even really welded on that covered the hole!!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on February 17, 2015, 19:52:05 pm
where did you exit fuel lines at rear of tunnel? going to put mine in this weekend and was tinking about nice neat places to bring them out


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 17, 2015, 19:54:22 pm
Next to where hockey stick out of trans goes into car, on drivers side of it opposite to clutch and throttle cable tubes


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on February 17, 2015, 20:07:59 pm
yeah i got a load of shift rods sticking out there lol i think i might bring them out the side of the tunnel using  bulkhead fittings as anything behind b post is boxed in so tecnicly outside cab area so should be ok for regs i think


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 17, 2015, 20:40:03 pm
yeah i got a load of shift rods sticking out there lol i think i might bring them out the side of the tunnel using  bulkhead fittings as anything behind b post is boxed in so tecnicly outside cab area so should be ok for regs i think


Yep after firewall its all free to do what you want


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: broen messiaen on February 17, 2015, 21:09:55 pm
looks good!
what size did you use for the fuel lines? will you use press couplings on themore just slide a rubber hose on then?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 17, 2015, 21:18:13 pm
looks good!
what size did you use for the fuel lines? will you use press couplings on themore just slide a rubber hose on then?

They are 1/2inch, I am putting -8 tube nuts and sleeves on each end to convert it to the braided hose fittings I am using elsewhere

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on February 17, 2015, 22:49:24 pm
sayers and doers....  :D

today more doing and less saying just for you Danny ;D  Got the afternoon free so got some done


Rear torsions[27mm used] and spring plates set up, then jaycee retainers fitted[used]

2x fuel lines fitted in tunnel, new shift rod bush then shift rod in

Beam bolted on, arms and hubs fitted, steering all cleaned and stuff I hadn't already painted got a coat of black then fitted

also found this horror hidden under a generous layer of underseal and skim of silicon sealer, the plate wasn't even really welded on that covered the hole!!!!

Those JayCee retainers.
I always wanted to know if you could use those on the street, aren t they prone to wear?




Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 17, 2015, 23:00:55 pm
I have them on the old cab and haven't seen any issues but it doesn't do 1000s of miles a year so not sure how they will hold up yet, have heard of failures in very short time but never figured out why when mine are good after 6 years or so

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on February 17, 2015, 23:40:54 pm
OK thanks Richie for always sharing information.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on February 18, 2015, 03:55:56 am
What are you planning to run for fuel pump and regulator? A1000? 044?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 18, 2015, 09:01:42 am
What are you planning to run for fuel pump and regulator? A1000? 044?

I have a magna fuel reg that couldn't keep up with the new cabs demands so using that, and pump is a generic 911turbo cheap[£40] repo that just comes in a brown box, used them before but will have to see if it can supply enough for everything

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 18, 2015, 17:07:38 pm
Hit a small problem, need a rear bearing retainer and spacer for IRS rear if anyone has got one of each and can post it to me asap? then the pan can roll on its wheels again 8)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 18, 2015, 20:39:40 pm
Front end is on the ground!!!!


 Rear is nearly done, just those couple of things going to hold me up getting it on 4 wheels


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on February 18, 2015, 21:26:39 pm
Hi Richie,
I will see if Alex Taylor has the bits ou need. If he does I will post them to you tomorrow first class
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 18, 2015, 21:32:29 pm
Hi Richie,
I will see if Alex Taylor has the bits ou need. If he does I will post them to you tomorrow first class
Lee

Thanks Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Elnef on February 19, 2015, 06:16:43 am
"Its booked in to have the cage fitted in about 3 weeks so got to keep at it"

Why not weld the rlr cage in it your self you have up for sale ?

great speed on this project now  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 19, 2015, 08:18:03 am
"Its booked in to have the cage fitted in about 3 weeks so got to keep at it"

Why not weld the rlr cage in it your self you have up for sale ?

great speed on this project now  :)


We sold it :D  but to be honest I prefer the skills of someone like Jim when I put my safety in the trust of the cage, knowing those welds will hold is great peace of mind 8)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: oilyT on February 20, 2015, 00:43:13 am
Great build  8).  where did you source the 1/2 in ali fuel pipe ? i'm going to be looking for some soon. :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 20, 2015, 09:54:56 am
came from Jegs, I got some in stock if you need it, and the 3/8th size for -6


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Trond Dahl on February 20, 2015, 12:19:59 pm
I like your wheels next to the car:-)
Are you running those?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 20, 2015, 14:16:09 pm
I like your wheels next to the car:-)
Are you running those?

Yes, my one real extravagance on the whole build ;) Just had to do it when they came up for sale ;D



cheers Richie




Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: oilyT on February 21, 2015, 00:55:44 am
came from Jegs, I got some in stock if you need it, and the 3/8th size for -6


cheers Richie

Cool,  could you pm me a price on the 1/2 in tubing . :)

Cheer's Barry


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 23, 2015, 19:02:02 pm
Bit more progress, all the strength is back in the front area, still waiting on the windscreen washer bottle area repair panel to arrive but have done all the other pieces under and around it so should be simple enough when it arrives, had to let in some metal on front edge of inner wing near bumper mounts then could "persuade"  ;) the front apron to fit as best I could get it.
Bonnet[ from rob at East coast manx ] and wings line up pretty good with no real messing 8)

Last thing was to mount the Lucas indicators where I wanted them :)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on February 23, 2015, 19:29:34 pm
Hi Richie,
Did you get the bits you needed for the chassis?
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 23, 2015, 19:36:04 pm
Hi Richie,
Did you get the bits you needed for the chassis?
Lee

Supposedly in post so hopefully yes, thanks for your help :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: TomJ on February 23, 2015, 19:37:33 pm
Bit more progress, all the strength is back in the front area, still waiting on the windscreen washer bottle area repair panel to arrive but have done all the other pieces under and around it so should be simple enough when it arrives, had to let in some metal on front edge of inner wing near bumper mounts then could "persuade"  ;) the front apron to fit as best I could get it.
Bonnet[ from rob at East coast manx ] and wings line up pretty good with no real messing 8)

Last thing was to mount the Lucas indicators where I wanted them :)


cheers Richie

Looking good Richie!

There's my front number plate, I was wondering where I left that :)

Cheers

Tom



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on February 24, 2015, 09:34:00 am
decided on a colour yet?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 24, 2015, 09:57:04 am
decided on a colour yet?

I am staying with stock Lotus white, going to leave the chrome on as well, more of a subtle street racer than cal looker and think the stock colour works well 8)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: jamiep_jamiep on February 24, 2015, 11:00:53 am
Looking great!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 24, 2015, 14:24:21 pm
Thanks to kind generosity of Baz I got a bearing carrier & spacer in the mail so fitted that up and pan now rolls, just need one small IRS brake line connector to arrive and I can bleed brakes and pan is ready to go back under car :o :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on February 24, 2015, 14:39:01 pm
nice! i´d love to be this far with the pan. repairing a framehead is a royal PITA


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 24, 2015, 18:01:56 pm
nice! i´d love to be this far with the pan. repairing a framehead is a royal PITA

And I would love for the body to be painted like yours is, we could make one good one out of 2 rusty ones at the moment :o :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: baz on February 24, 2015, 19:56:17 pm
Looking good Ritchie,  gotta love og burners when they lose the shine.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on February 24, 2015, 20:52:37 pm
Looks great  8)

You got to love a complete rolling pan.

I'll bring the Puma pan up and we can have a pan race  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on February 24, 2015, 21:54:10 pm
good work cant wait to see it out  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on March 03, 2015, 17:01:13 pm
Good Progress Richie  ;D quick question, are the front shocks Competition Engineering 90/10s ?   and are these available for link pin front ends to directly bolt on without mods / welding brackets etc?

Look forward to seeing you guys and the cars at UK Drag Day in May.

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on March 03, 2015, 17:36:05 pm
We must be due an update by now  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 03, 2015, 18:23:00 pm
Good Progress Richie  ;D quick question, are the front shocks Competition Engineering 90/10s ?   and are these available for link pin front ends to directly bolt on without mods / welding brackets etc?

Look forward to seeing you guys and the cars at UK Drag Day in May.

Shane.

Hi Shane

yes they are, they were left over from the nitrous cab and seemed silly to not use them :)   I don't think they make them anymore for ball joint or link pin front ends, I haven't seen them for sale for along long time, sorry cant help anymore than that


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 03, 2015, 18:30:00 pm
We must be due an update by now  ;D

To be honest there hasn't been much to update up till now, been wearing my fingers away sanding and filling the shell for what seems like months!!!, but today made the next step forward by getting the shell in undercoat, will need to be a little lower to put topcoat on though, was a real bitch to do the roof up that high, but it is so easy to do underneath and inside like that[ got to say thanks to Gavin Jones for the loan of the rotisserie, was perfect timing him going on holiday ;) ;D  thanks mate 8)  ]

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on March 03, 2015, 18:57:39 pm
looks cool! the race is on who is on the pan first ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on March 03, 2015, 19:57:51 pm
Great progress. Looks like Gavin may offer you a job :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on March 03, 2015, 20:40:01 pm
All that work to only realise you still need to weld up the trim holes, must be gutted! ;D

Looking good, wish I had the time to work on mine.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on March 03, 2015, 20:50:47 pm
Big chunk of progress  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 03, 2015, 21:02:14 pm


Looking good, wish I had the motivation to get off my lazy ass and work on mine instead of just talking about it.



 :o ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 03, 2015, 21:09:52 pm
looks cool! the race is on who is on the pan first ;D

I think it should be who drives it 1st, I will have it on the pan next week so it can go off for the cage work but I am happy either way, 2 cars are getting saved 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on March 03, 2015, 21:34:42 pm


Looking good, wish I had the motivation to get off my lazy ass and work on mine instead of just talking about it.



 :o ;D

:)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 05, 2015, 18:40:45 pm
Underneath is done, painted the bonnet while I was doing it, happy enough with how its coming out :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on March 05, 2015, 19:54:21 pm
Impressive work Richie! I'm looking at the modifications to the shell and I can spot the Zbar mounting place on the bodymount panel is gone, which I presume is for easier access to the starter motor, clutch arm etc., but I'm also wondering about the pieces of rear crossmember missing where the heater pipes would go through. Is this for clearance for the cage to tie in to the torsion housing, or some other reason?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 05, 2015, 20:03:32 pm
Its all for cage stuff, will be same as old cab, 2 extra bars down from main hoop/harness bar area to torsion housing, so missing pieces are to allow welding it to torsion housing, will fill it in after its done and the open area around where Z bar would mount is because it also goes across under package tray to each shock tower  :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on March 05, 2015, 21:30:24 pm
Ah, makes sense! Mine has no boot floor, just a box where it would have been between the wheel arches. Still has most of the body mount and inner arch panel and the crossmembers but has a bar further back tied into the frame horns. I'm looking forward to seeing how the cage ties the torsions and shocks in as they're pretty much free floating at the moment! I've got some ideas which might end up with some mini tubs in there too. Just need time...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 06, 2015, 19:24:04 pm
 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 06, 2015, 20:48:43 pm
Reminds me when I had mine painted and saw it for the first time  ;)

Good work


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WCB Hitler's Hot Rod on March 07, 2015, 15:44:19 pm
Looking good Richie! Really looking forward to seeing this completed. I like the lotus white color.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 07, 2015, 18:38:12 pm
Thanks Steve, should be a good fun street car to use & abuse 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 07, 2015, 19:25:38 pm
Reminds me when I had mine painted and saw it for the first time  ;)

Good work

thanks :)   whatever you paid it was worth it :o 

Spent today making more things white, all the small things take so long even just to sand and prep ::), now got all wings done, redid the bonnet as had a reaction in it, then stock decklid and lots of small stuff. then started trying to save the rear apron, the inner heat shield was rusted through, it had about 10mm of filler in it from previous repair and I had decided to do it like the old cab, after some beating, shaping, grinding etc it now is how I want it and got a good skim of filler last thing 

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on March 07, 2015, 23:39:42 pm
lots of weight in the filler....  :o :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: kielbasa on March 08, 2015, 04:22:54 am
Here I am trying to remove filler off my car, and your there adding. Looking good buddy


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 07:46:30 am
Here I am trying to remove filler off my car, and your there adding. Looking good buddy

It will be quite thin once I work it, but the whole area needed a little, really it needed a new apron but budget doesn't allow that ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on March 08, 2015, 13:55:26 pm
8)

Ive got to say that does look really good.... well done.

I can see it now Shitter Queen Restorations, poor gavin LOL


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 08, 2015, 14:44:58 pm
I can see it now Shitter Queen Restorations, poor gavin LOL

Gavin has nothing to worry about.
This is more like Drag Queen Restorations. Same amount of filler on the apron as on Lilly Savage and Dame Edna's face  :D :D :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 14:53:48 pm
I can see it now Shitter Queen Restorations, poor gavin LOL

Gavin has nothing to worry about.
This is more like Drag Queen Restorations. Same amount of filler on the apron as on Lilly Savage and Dame Edna's face  :D :D :D

Sea nuts?  ??? >:( 




 ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 08, 2015, 14:59:22 pm
Get back in that garage, you got some filler to rub down  ;D

Should be able to take me for a spin when I come up at the rate you're going at  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 19:58:15 pm
lots of weight in the filler....  :o :D

Lighter now ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 20:02:31 pm
Brakes bleed, clutch cable re attached to pedal and then time to get the body out ready to go onto pan


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 20:08:49 pm


With a little moving, aligning and moving, then moving etc etc I got the body down onto the pan, big moment for me as it finally starts to look like the idea I had in my head  :) 8) 

 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 20:18:28 pm
Got all the pan to body bolts in, the usual dicking around to get everything to line up but all done now so started bolting stuff back on, needed some room so bonnet went on, replaced the 2 factory springs with one single gas strut to hold it open, the springs were to strong for the light fiberglass bonnet, this seems to work better 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 08, 2015, 20:22:54 pm
NICE  :) :) :)
Looks great


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on March 08, 2015, 20:32:14 pm
Looks good!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 20:44:20 pm
Get back in that garage, you got some filler to rub down  ;D

Should be able to take me for a spin when I come up at the rate you're going at  ;)

I only stopped for the kettle and a quick lunch, and that as while paint was drying :P   Reckon if I had the gearbox and it wasn't going to Jim then I probably could have it finished in 2 weeks :o


NICE  :) :) :)
Looks great

Thanks :)

Looks good!

Thanks, how's yours coming along?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: tikimadness on March 08, 2015, 21:24:47 pm

NICE  :) :) :)
Looks great

Thanks, how's yours coming along?

Probably still needs to be blasted ;D ;D

Michael


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on March 08, 2015, 21:52:35 pm
Richie

Well done shows what a lot of effort can do, speaks volumes for your attitude.

Russell


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on March 08, 2015, 21:59:50 pm
Richie

Well done shows what a lot of effort can do, speaks volumes for your attitude.

Russell

So true. I also thought that Richie had a full on shop loaded with high end tools regarding what he already achieved with his cars. It also show that dedication will lead you to the top! Congrats for the work done Richie!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on March 08, 2015, 22:09:04 pm
looks really good.
seems to go fast now.

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 22:28:31 pm
Richie

Well done shows what a lot of effort can do, speaks volumes for your attitude.

Russell

So true. I also thought that Richie had a full on shop loaded with high end tools regarding what he already achieved with his cars. It also show that dedication will lead you to the top! Congrats for the work done Richie!

I dream of those tools :o  but unless my lottery ticket wins they will just remain a dream, so have to do with hard work and a little imagination to get me through :)  thanks for the compliment though ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Turbo_Rich on March 08, 2015, 22:53:39 pm
Looks fantastic, keep up the good work  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 08, 2015, 23:01:01 pm
looks really good.
seems to go fast now.

henk!!!

As soon as I set myself the target of Cal look drag day in May it became easy to keep motivated, and I am enjoying doing it as well which helps when its is cold or raining outside to carry on :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: baz on March 08, 2015, 23:26:46 pm
Looks great. We have the same rotisserie as your one, only your car has come down off it now while mine has yet to go up.  And we're both working to the same deadline too   :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on March 09, 2015, 01:57:14 am
Ritchie, thanks for those pics mate.
I rekn there's about 1/2 dozen ideas that either I'd wondered about or will try on my own for next time.
Thanks man!

Looking good too.  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on March 09, 2015, 10:28:34 am
"..... hard work and a little imagination to get me through :)"

I'm knowing that feeling!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: RobtheManx on March 09, 2015, 17:59:55 pm
Got all the pan to body bolts in, the usual dicking around to get everything to line up but all done now so started bolting stuff back on, needed some room so bonnet went on, replaced the 2 factory springs with one single gas strut to hold it open, the springs were to strong for the light fiberglass bonnet, this seems to work better 

Wow , look at the beautiful fit of that lovely bonnet ! Better than original I reckon ! where'd you get it ?

Rob


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on March 09, 2015, 18:46:12 pm
great colour, love lotus white  8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 09, 2015, 18:55:23 pm
Got all the pan to body bolts in, the usual dicking around to get everything to line up but all done now so started bolting stuff back on, needed some room so bonnet went on, replaced the 2 factory springs with one single gas strut to hold it open, the springs were to strong for the light fiberglass bonnet, this seems to work better 

Wow , look at the beautiful fit of that lovely bonnet ! Better than original I reckon ! where'd you get it ?

Rob

Just some old thing I had laying around ;) :D

Jo did give you credit for it on faceache :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 09, 2015, 19:26:12 pm
Some more this afternoon.

started off making these blanking panels for behind the dash grills, quick coat of satin black and they look like stock, never been totally convinced by a piece of cloth keeping the flames out should it all go bad, and now I will have a bottle up front as well as the fuel tank I want to seal it up as well as possible.

Then just carried on putting it together, wiring in and dash together, then onto rear bodywork


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 09, 2015, 19:30:04 pm
Going to run out of parts soon and have to order some small things to be able to do more


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on March 09, 2015, 21:29:00 pm
If you keep up this work pace, I think you will be racing it by the end of the week!  :D

Looking very good, nice work!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on March 10, 2015, 19:19:33 pm
Looks nice!
My steel bonnet is held up by two of those gas struts and its a nice touch, where did you get that one from? (mine are getting old and not holding it up so well these days)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 11, 2015, 08:31:50 am
Looks nice!
My steel bonnet is held up by two of those gas struts and its a nice touch, where did you get that one from? (mine are getting old and not holding it up so well these days)

Think it is New beetle, had them kicking around for a couple of years

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 11, 2015, 08:33:41 am
If you keep up this work pace, I think you will be racing it by the end of the week!  :D

Looking very good, nice work!


Still occasional white stuff falling out the sky so no rush yet >:( :D    but hoping a couple more weeks of my spare time should see it done


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: cedric on March 11, 2015, 09:08:39 am
I now a place with vw small parts... :


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: karl h on March 11, 2015, 09:34:10 am
never going to catch up with you :P - dont you have anything elso to do ;D?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on March 11, 2015, 10:56:59 am
Looks nice!
My steel bonnet is held up by two of those gas struts and its a nice touch, where did you get that one from? (mine are getting old and not holding it up so well these days)

Think it is New beetle, had them kicking around for a couple of years

cheers Richie

Cheers bud :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Lids on March 11, 2015, 14:17:19 pm
Looks nice!
My steel bonnet is held up by two of those gas struts and its a nice touch, where did you get that one from? (mine are getting old and not holding it up so well these days)

bugpack sell them


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on March 11, 2015, 20:30:23 pm
I now a place with vw small parts... :

Today I find I need something I could have got their yesterday, timing is terrible!!!!! ::)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BossHogg76 on March 11, 2015, 23:04:19 pm
Eventually got chance to read the thread after seeing the pics going up on Pussbook. Looking great Richie.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: cedric on March 13, 2015, 01:19:55 am
Put on mail.. If its small stuf i bring it to vowo!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on March 13, 2015, 16:54:33 pm
good work  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on March 25, 2015, 22:10:43 pm
It's almost been two weeks..

Done?  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on April 17, 2015, 17:49:41 pm
Any update


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WCB Hitler's Hot Rod on April 20, 2015, 07:06:27 am
Did you make the 10sec pass already?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on April 20, 2015, 08:15:49 am
Is the Cage done ??

Regards Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: jamiep_jamiep on April 29, 2015, 10:30:36 am
This is looking fantastic :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on April 29, 2015, 12:48:44 pm
Is the Cage done ??

Regards Ron

Rj volks performance facebook shows pics of the cage done by Jim. Looks great


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jeff68 on April 29, 2015, 13:46:06 pm
Nit trying to be a smart a$$ but......I wonder how much $$$ has been spent so far? The car is coming out great though!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jo Clifford on May 13, 2015, 10:07:22 am
After a minor issue yesterday evening when the new starter gave up after only a few seconds cranking just as it started to fire and oil pressure came up, quick swap out to an old used one this morning and it fired up, its alive ;D 8)  10 mins of cam burn done so far, letting it cool down then do the rest in a while.

Still quite a few jobs to do but it is basically a complete car now and ready to drive :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on May 13, 2015, 13:39:05 pm
CDD ahoy!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on May 14, 2015, 06:15:58 am
After a minor issue yesterday evening when the new starter gave up after only a few seconds cranking just as it started to fire and oil pressure came up, quick swap out to an old used one this morning and it fired up, its alive ;D 8)  10 mins of cam burn done so far, letting it cool down then do the rest in a while.

Still quite a few jobs to do but it is basically a complete car now and ready to drive :)

good to hear it is geeting ready so far now.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 14, 2015, 08:14:19 am
Before stock except, no battery, one headlight, no wiper motor, only one bumper, no fuel and lots of rust!!![attachment=1]



After, fiberglass wings, bonnet, decklid, light wheels, no bumpers, no passenger or rear seat, complete car 1/4 tank fuel and ready to go[attachment=2]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 04, 2015, 09:49:16 am
So after focusing on the cabrio recently I am back on this again, its all sorted and on road now, been racking up some miles and all good so far, only problem I have had is alternator has intermittent charging fault >:(, and had to cut the front tow eye off the beam, it just bottomed out to often, mapping is just about done and next will be track time.

I had forgotten how loud a solid mounted no interior short geared bug is :o  or maybe I just got old :D but it sure is fun 8) ;D



cheers Richie

 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on June 04, 2015, 10:38:42 am


I had forgotten how loud a solid mounted no interior short geared bug is :o  or maybe I just got old :D but it sure is fun 8) ;D

 

Just drive it with your helmet on, then it feels "normal" (as if at the race track..)  :D :D

Looking good!  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on June 04, 2015, 11:22:02 am
Turns out very nice  :)
It sure looks to a fun ride


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jeff68 on June 04, 2015, 13:38:26 pm
Looks great Richie! I really liked reading this as you were building it. I've been thinking a lot about building a new car and sell my current one. After reading your last post about how loud this new car is to drive I feel like I should build a no compromise street car to race and then have a bus to cruise in......Now I have to find the $$$$$ ;D   Anyway, car looks awesome and I'm sure it'll get in the 10's


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 04, 2015, 20:58:09 pm


I had forgotten how loud a solid mounted no interior short geared bug is :o  or maybe I just got old :D but it sure is fun 8) ;D

 

Just drive it with your helmet on, then it feels "normal" (as if at the race track..)  :D :D

Looking good!  :)

You would think by now I would be going deaf :o :D



Looks great Richie! I really liked reading this as you were building it. I've been thinking a lot about building a new car and sell my current one. After reading your last post about how loud this new car is to drive I feel like I should build a no compromise street car to race and then have a bus to cruise in......Now I have to find the $$$$$ ;D   Anyway, car looks awesome and I'm sure it'll get in the 10's

Thanks, sounds like you got a good plan there 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on June 04, 2015, 21:11:31 pm
Glad you've got it up and running

Quite a difference in before and after weights


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 05, 2015, 18:55:23 pm
Glad you've got it up and running

Quite a difference in before and after weights

Yes surprised me to, could have lost some more easy enough with stuff like plastic instead of glass but would have added to cost to much ;)

cheers richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 06, 2015, 18:42:22 pm


Yes surprised me to, could have lost some more easy enough with stuff like plastic instead of glass but would have added to cost to much ;)

cheers richie
[/quote]

Well done mate. Looking good. I hope you didn't buy that number plate too show it's a budget build car, You Tight Arse  :D :D :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: TomJ on June 06, 2015, 18:59:13 pm


Yes surprised me to, could have lost some more easy enough with stuff like plastic instead of glass but would have added to cost to much ;)

cheers richie

Well done mate. Looking good. I hope you didn't buy that number plate too show it's a budget build car, You Tight Arse  :D :D :D
[/quote]

very good Frank! :)

Richie, good to see you've been putting some street "smiles" on it! :)

Cheers

Tom


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 07, 2015, 08:58:28 am


. I hope you didn't buy that number plate too show it's a budget build car, You Tight Arse  :D :D :D



See that's the German in you, its actually  Young Trendy Affluent       :o :D ;D

More miles on it this weekend  8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 19, 2015, 17:52:19 pm
A bit of an update as its been a while, engine is out as I have been chasing a small oil leak that I just couldn't find so decided to re seal 1&2 side as that's where its from, also wanted to check and reset clutch breakaway after its all bedded in ready to use the bottle ;D 8) Got that all done today so now its ready to go back in.

I am just going to shorten the nitrous/fuel lines to fogger while its out[ just waiting on some correct size olives to come in mail to do this] then put it back together and take it to track and see what it does :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on July 19, 2015, 22:11:02 pm
looking forward to see if you make it in the 10's.

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 20, 2015, 07:52:11 am
looking forward to see if you make it in the 10's.

henk!!!

Me to, hoping 2nd pass :o  1 pass N/A to see what it does then go for it ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: drgouk on July 20, 2015, 21:44:27 pm
Hi Richie,
              Im interested in what you did to get the CSP linkage working with the jenvey throttle bodies? It looks like the linkage pulls rather than pushing now?
Thanks

David Gouk


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2015, 07:54:18 am
Hi Richie,
              Im interested in what you did to get the CSP linkage working with the jenvey throttle bodies? It looks like the linkage pulls rather than pushing now?
Thanks

David Gouk

Hi David

yes it does pull now, I got some extra end pieces from Gunter@csp and swapped some stuff round and it just clears the alternator stand by mm, I can take a close up pic if you want to see clearly?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: drgouk on July 21, 2015, 08:04:43 am
Hi Richie,
              If you could take a pic it would be appreciated. I'm going to be installing a set on an engine soon and im interested to see how you got it to work. Thanks

David Gouk


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2015, 08:06:44 am
Hi Richie,
              If you could take a pic it would be appreciated. I'm going to be installing a set on an engine soon and im interested to see how you got it to work. Thanks

David Gouk

Will do, its in and all back together now, finished it last night, I also had to notch the number 3 stack as it hit the firewall

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2015, 09:11:18 am
Hi Richie,
              If you could take a pic it would be appreciated. I'm going to be installing a set on an engine soon and im interested to see how you got it to work. Thanks

David Gouk

Here you  go




edit, for some reason lounge wont allow adding pictures on original post, comes up with error  so you have to post just words, then edit after to add pics, one picture at a time, Trond?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: drgouk on July 21, 2015, 11:15:33 am
Thanks Richie, Is that a late Mexican FI alternator stand?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2015, 12:13:19 pm
Thanks Richie, Is that a late Mexican FI alternator stand?

Yes it is

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on July 21, 2015, 22:02:29 pm
Where did you get dizzy block off?

Engine looks smart! best of luck!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 22, 2015, 07:14:07 am
Where did you get dizzy block off?

Engine looks smart! best of luck!!

We sell them ;D  Thanks


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 22, 2015, 09:35:34 am
Richie

How much gas will you be using ?

It would be intresting to see the difference in timing tickets between a run with and without once you have it set up.

Regard Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 22, 2015, 12:29:57 pm
Richie

How much gas will you be using ?

It would be intresting to see the difference in timing tickets between a run with and without once you have it set up.

Regard Ron

Ron,

about 75-95hp level for now, I will do a N/A pass and maybe more later but for now will just aim for the 10s using the gas, the gearing is a little tall for the N/A set up so it will always be compromised running it that way but it is much more drivable on the road due to it :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on July 22, 2015, 18:46:24 pm
Where did you get dizzy block off?

Engine looks smart! best of luck!!

We sell them ;D  Thanks

Hmmmmmmm  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 22, 2015, 19:09:52 pm
Where did you get dizzy block off?

Engine looks smart! best of luck!!

We sell them ;D  Thanks

Hmmmmmmm  ;)

 ;D Blank or with -8 or -10 fitting machined in

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on July 22, 2015, 20:15:59 pm
Where did you get dizzy block off?

Engine looks smart! best of luck!!

We sell them ;D  Thanks



Hmmmmmmm  ;)

 ;D Blank or with -8 or -10 fitting machined in

cheers Richie

I'd best send you a PM then :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 23, 2015, 21:38:55 pm
Richie,

Could you please give a little more insight in how the cage is connected to the rear suspension.
 ;D

Thanks in advance


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 24, 2015, 07:28:04 am
Richie,

Could you please give a little more insight in how the cage is connected to the rear suspension.
 ;D

Thanks in advance

Hi Eddie

next time I got the wheels off I will take better pictures, but basically the two tubes that come down from main hoop to frame forks are intersected by a tube going across to each shock tower, Jim welded a plate on the tower  where it is hollow, then welded the tube to that

Edit: found  pic that shows it pretty good :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 26, 2015, 08:03:47 am
Thank you Richie.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 26, 2015, 08:40:33 am
Great picture,
Always liked how neat Jim cuts the holes for the roll cage tubes throught the boot floor
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 26, 2015, 09:30:27 am
Richie

How much gas will you be using ?

It would be intresting to see the difference in timing tickets between a run with and without once you have it set up.

Regard Ron

Ron,

about 75-95hp level for now, I will do a N/A pass and maybe more later but for now will just aim for the 10s using the gas, the gearing is a little tall for the N/A set up so it will always be compromised running it that way but it is much more drivable on the road due to it :)

cheers Richie

Great, can't wait to see it run


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 26, 2015, 12:19:54 pm
Plan is to take it to rwyb next month after we get back from Hockenheim if I get time and see what happens :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 26, 2015, 13:03:18 pm
Plan is to take it to rwyb next month after we get back from Hockenheim if I get time and see what happens :o

cheers Richie

Ron,
I feel a road trip coming on....
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 26, 2015, 22:27:50 pm
.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 10:33:48 am
Got these to go on now, they were £500 less than the gasburners so will swap them out, they weigh 10.5lbs compared to 9.5lbs of gasburner on my scales so not bad,  still trying to keep cost down ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 31, 2015, 10:42:48 am
Nice!

Now I know of three '67s with those rims.. Mine included ;D 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 31, 2015, 10:53:39 am
Got these to go on now, they were £500 less than the gasburners so will swap them out, they weigh 10.5lbs compared to 9.5lbs of gasburner on my scales so not bad,  still trying to keep cost down ;D

cheers Richie

Shiiiiiiiit, good score  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 12:43:23 pm
Nice!

Now I know of three '67s with those rims.. Mine included ;D 8)

I did get the idea from somewhere and someone else ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 31, 2015, 13:26:58 pm
Be prepared to answer why you have steel wheels on a drag car...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 14:15:38 pm
Be prepared to answer why you have steel wheels on a drag car...

 :D  Plan is to paint them flat black so they look even more stock, and I got some small VW logo hubcaps I want to try fit to complete the look ;)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 31, 2015, 15:29:08 pm
Oh no, you'll be putting bumpers on it next!  :D

Looks great Richie. Any idea on the budget so far? Close to the £10k target?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 31, 2015, 16:40:38 pm
Selling the GB's Richie?  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 17:07:31 pm
Oh no, you'll be putting bumpers on it next!  :D

Looks great Richie. Any idea on the budget so far? Close to the £10k target?

Its got bumpers on it :D liking that it looks "normal"  8)

Starting adding it up but got bored of all the small stuff so decided to go back to it after its run 10s as I will know for sure then what I used and it cost, but it is more than I thought


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 17:08:36 pm
Selling the GB's Richie?  :)

Which set?   :D nope not a chance  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on July 31, 2015, 17:52:17 pm
Looks really good, I'm still sat on a pile of parts lol


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on July 31, 2015, 18:53:52 pm
Are they porsche spares? What size are they? Love that look, sleeper ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on July 31, 2015, 19:01:14 pm
Got these to go on now, they were £500 less than the gasburners so will swap them out, they weigh 10.5lbs compared to 9.5lbs of gasburner on my scales so not bad

Put some more holes in them ;)[attachment=1]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 19:19:51 pm
Are they porsche spares? What size are they? Love that look, sleeper ;)

Yep 5.5x15s :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 31, 2015, 19:20:47 pm
Got these to go on now, they were £500 less than the gasburners so will swap them out, they weigh 10.5lbs compared to 9.5lbs of gasburner on my scales so not bad

Put some more holes in them ;)[attachment=1]

To much work for me, and to be honest looks ugly :o  :D


cheers Richie


Title: Re:
Post by: Jo Clifford on August 15, 2015, 12:01:09 pm
We officially have a 10 second streetcar, 10.97 @ 121 mph first pass with the bottle on, today at Santa Pod. :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on August 15, 2015, 12:04:03 pm
Congrats  ;D
More to come then


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on August 15, 2015, 12:15:56 pm
Good stuff .racing not talking


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on August 15, 2015, 12:25:58 pm
goal achived on the first outing?that's nice.

henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 15, 2015, 12:42:02 pm
Whooo cool, nice achievement  :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on August 15, 2015, 16:03:26 pm
Stop making it look easy  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on August 15, 2015, 17:26:34 pm
Knowledge is power, I had no doubt it would happen 2nd run

Well done love it


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: fastbus on August 15, 2015, 17:42:37 pm
Well done!

How much power are you making for that 10?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:17:38 pm
Good stuff .racing not talking

 ;)  No picnics were involved in todays outing ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:22:01 pm
goal achived on the first outing?that's nice.

henk!!!

Yes 1st time at the track, as I said before I would do one N/A pass which I did[ 12.44@103mph, missed 3rd gear] then turned the bottle on, next pass 10.97@121mph, slight adjustment to tyre pressure and next pass 10.97@120, now quite a head wind but 60ft was better.
then 2 more passes in afternoon, 1st I grabbed 4th instead of 2nd and last missed 3rd gear again so no improvement.
Car is all good, need some more passes as it is much to rich on bottle but at least its safe tune

Will put a video and some pics up in a while

cheers Richie     


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:25:15 pm
Stop making it look easy  :D


Ron,

I came to this conclusion on the way home, all you need to do is come up with a plan of what you want to do, stick to it ;) and search out the parts you need, then buy them when they come up for sale

I can see from your avatar that some of this might be a problem for you  ;) :D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:26:07 pm
Knowledge is power, I had no doubt it would happen 2nd run

Well done love it

Only just but good enough ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:27:45 pm
Well done!

How much power are you making for that 10?

My estimate about 200 on the engine and about 75 of nitrous, its hard to be exact as the tune was so rich I don't know how much power its robbing

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 19:28:19 pm
Whooo cool, nice achievement  :o

Thanks Eddie :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on August 15, 2015, 19:51:29 pm
Nice one Richie, I had no doubt you'd do it, but to do it on the second pass is outstanding!  Congratulations!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 20:07:24 pm
Nice one Richie, I had no doubt you'd do it, but to do it on the second pass is outstanding!  Congratulations!

thanks, I like to put myself under pressure making stupid promises & predictions :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 20:49:31 pm
Videos


1st 10  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmlN1Tom2g

and 2nd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSCP1jA4GJw

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on August 15, 2015, 20:57:35 pm
Well done! I see you were cheating though running the light wheels :D

Very eager to see what's in it when the tune is sorted.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 21:08:29 pm
Well done! I see you were cheating though running the light wheels :D

Very eager to see what's in it when the tune is sorted.


Yep  ;D they are Jo's, only thing I had around with slicks on and they are 4 years or so old so not ideal, best thing is they were free :D ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 21:12:44 pm
Timing ticket



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 21:16:56 pm
The 12.44@103 was N/A with muffler and belt on[ it did try to jump off, was twisted round after run] and I missed 3rd gear as you can hear!!!! I am sure it will go 11s N/A if I was motivated

Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYKJOd8x2hg



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jo Clifford on August 15, 2015, 21:27:25 pm
Here's a few pics, thanks to Blackett Photography for some of them  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jo Clifford on August 15, 2015, 21:33:09 pm
and a few more


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on August 15, 2015, 21:34:25 pm
Faster than all the Picnic racers and did what it said in the tin  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Turbo_Rich on August 15, 2015, 21:55:32 pm
Congrats on the 10 that is so cool 2nd pass out. Certainly looks lively off the line. Car turned out good  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on August 15, 2015, 22:51:58 pm
Faster than all the Picnic racers and did what it said in the tin  ;D

What's a picnic racer?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on August 16, 2015, 11:36:47 am
Well done mate.
Definitely an 11 N/A next time. Nice 1.47 60ft on 3rd run.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on August 16, 2015, 12:14:13 pm
Stop making it look easy  :D


Ron,

I came to this conclusion on the way home, all you need to do is come up with a plan of what you want to do, stick to it ;) and search out the parts you need, then buy them when they come up for sale

I can see from your avatar that some of this might be a problem for you  ;) :D

cheers Richie

Think you've hit it on the head, was thinking the same thing the other day. Biggest problem with me is too  little time to work on cars and too much thinking time. Done at home now so next few years should be my time to play. Will be the same parts just in a smaller lighter car  ;D

Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on August 16, 2015, 12:55:05 pm
Great result!

how does it drive on the street?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 16, 2015, 16:08:07 pm
Great result!

how does it drive on the street?

Pretty good actually, nice and smooth for what it is, gearing is plenty tall enough, maybe even slightly over geared for track as you can hear in 3rd gear in vids, but it was what came up cheap, its just a little noisy, seems to get about 25mpg which is fine as not alot of driving for gas milage happens  ;)
 
I put carpet in passenger side already, going to do driver side and rear package tray area and that will do for noise reduction

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on August 16, 2015, 16:23:30 pm
Great result!

how does it drive on the street?

Pretty good actually, nice and smooth for what it is, gearing is plenty tall enough, maybe even slightly over geared for track as you can hear in 3rd gear in vids, but it was what came up cheap, its just a little noisy, seems to get about 25mpg which is fine as not alot of driving for gas milage happens  ;)
 
I put carpet in passenger side already, going to do driver side and rear package tray area and that will do for noise reduction

cheers Richie

Thats a rear bonus! sounds like an amazing all rounder! not many 10 second beetles driving about on the roads!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 16, 2015, 16:30:07 pm


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on August 17, 2015, 09:05:39 am
Good work Richie, hitting the mark on the 2nd run is impressive  :D
Look forward to seeing how much more you can get into the 10's, but mission accomplished  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Udo on August 17, 2015, 11:54:51 am
Good work and with the EFI it should work well on the street :-)

Udo


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jeff68 on August 17, 2015, 13:54:29 pm
Wow, but I was pretty sure you would make the goal without much trouble. 12.44 with no bottle and 10.97 with it and 25 mpg too, can't see how you could do it any better. 8)

I have a couple of questions. I read  back through the thread to see what the chassis set up is for this car. From what I read :

Converted to IRS, mid mount, solid mounted transmission, mid mount for transmission

What kind of roll bar did you put in? I think the roll bar is tied to the transmission forks?
What kind of shocks (front and rear) did you use?
Did you end up using a traction bar?

I know that your goal was to build a 10 second car and see how much it cost but for me you really showed how to build a street legal drag car. Kind of like the anatomy of a VW street / drag car. Thanks for taking the time to document / share what you did.
Jeff


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 07:25:18 am
Good work and with the EFI it should work well on the street :-)

Udo

Thank you, yes it really does drive quite well


Good work Richie, hitting the mark on the 2nd run is impressive  :D
Look forward to seeing how much more you can get into the 10's, but mission accomplished  ;D


Ta, just don't look at the paint to close :D


Really think it will go mid 10s like this with some small changes and some development, silly stuff like a different shifter, when I am driving it on road its fine, but strapped in its just to far away and keep missing gears, need one with more bend in it I think


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 07:29:29 am
Wow, but I was pretty sure you would make the goal without much trouble. 12.44 with no bottle and 10.97 with it and 25 mpg too, can't see how you could do it any better. 8)

I have a couple of questions. I read  back through the thread to see what the chassis set up is for this car. From what I read :

Converted to IRS, mid mount, solid mounted transmission, mid mount for transmission

What kind of roll bar did you put in? I think the roll bar is tied to the transmission forks?
What kind of shocks (front and rear) did you use?
Did you end up using a traction bar?

I know that your goal was to build a 10 second car and see how much it cost but for me you really showed how to build a street legal drag car. Kind of like the anatomy of a VW street / drag car. Thanks for taking the time to document / share what you did.
Jeff

Thanks Jeff

the roll cage was made by Jim at cotsweld race cars   http://cotsweld.co.uk/  and yes its tied to frame forks and shock towers and torsion housing, no traction bar is used

It has old[14 years old] competition engineering 3 way adjustable front shocks and used qa1 single adjustable rears

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: stretch on August 18, 2015, 08:56:48 am
So, are you going to enter the cab in Super Comp & the 67 in Super Street?  If your desperate & need a 2nd driver.......   :D :P ;)

Congrats by the way, fantastic achievement.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 09:27:49 am
So, are you going to enter the cab in Super Comp & the 67 in Super Street?  If your desperate & need a 2nd driver.......   :D :P ;)

Congrats by the way, fantastic achievement.



Shhhhhhh, at the moment its just a rumour, and we know how those go ;)  But possibly for national finals , don't think I will get the 67 as far under the index as the cab but will try and see if I get it their :D ;D

I got a lightweight jockey for it once she has done some roads miles in it and got used to it but thanks for the offer ;D


thanks  8) , yours done yet?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: stretch on August 18, 2015, 11:23:31 am
Really?  Funny how great minds think alike eh?  (Or fools seldom differ  ;D )

As for mine, i'm way off.  It'll be next year before i'm finished.  I've been a bit distracted lately with another (small) project.  Well it started out as a small project & has grown a little.  F**king RHD UK cars.........   ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on August 18, 2015, 12:09:23 pm
Congratulations going straight into the 10s!! Not that I had any doubt you could do it.. ;)

So now after you have raced it, what do you feel the potential in the car is with the current set up?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on August 18, 2015, 14:01:20 pm
It's definitely a success, but if you had to do it again what would you have done differently?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 16:46:35 pm
Congratulations going straight into the 10s!! Not that I had any doubt you could do it.. ;)

So now after you have raced it, what do you feel the potential in the car is with the current set up?

Thank you :)

Even I had doubt it would do it 2nd pass as I predicted so its ok if you do to :o :D


I think mid 10s are quite achievable as it is now, I would like to put a 2nd kit on it and go for a 9 but not sure the cylinders would take it, or that I have time to develop it that much in next year or so with other projects keeping me occupied so we will see

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 16:49:20 pm
It's definitely a success, but if you had to do it again what would you have done differently?

That's easy, start with a half decent car ::), it took way to much time make it solid again, and also have done a turbo set up, might cost more initially and be more difficult to keep it streetable and decklid closed but would go low 10s or high 9s a lot easier in the long run


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on August 18, 2015, 18:10:22 pm


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie



Hi Richie,

Great achievement well done. Must have been hugely satisfying to hit the 10's first time out and as you say I'm sure you'll lower that ET once the whole setup is nicely dialled in. As a normally aspirated guy I can't help but wonder what the low ET could be after some more passes, like you say that fumbled 3rd gear run must have hurt that quarter mile run. 12.44@103 reflects this for me as the mph is down for a 12.4 pass. Even so that's a strong pass with the belt on too !  Did you remove the belt for the following NOS assisted passes ?  Just curious.  She really looks to hook up well and launch hard every run. Sounds strong !

Re the build cost, I can't remember now was the original idea to see what it cost someone like yourself who can do most of the work yourself, ie panel welding,chassis and cage mods, respraying, engine building etc you get my drift versus someone like me that can wield a spanner and bolt things on but would have to pay bodyshops and engine builders etc to essentially get the car ready for me to do the fit up stuff...so wonder what would it cost me to build your 10 second street car ?

Cool outcome regardless.

Cheers,

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 18, 2015, 19:06:09 pm


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie



Hi Richie,

Great achievement well done. Must have been hugely satisfying to hit the 10's first time out and as you say I'm sure you'll lower that ET once the whole setup is nicely dialled in. As a normally aspirated guy I can't help but wonder what the low ET could be after some more passes, like you say that fumbled 3rd gear run must have hurt that quarter mile run. 12.44@103 reflects this for me as the mph is down for a 12.4 pass. Even so that's a strong pass with the belt on too !  Did you remove the belt for the following NOS assisted passes ?  Just curious.  She really looks to hook up well and launch hard every run. Sounds strong !

Re the build cost, I can't remember now was the original idea to see what it cost someone like yourself who can do most of the work yourself, ie panel welding,chassis and cage mods, respraying, engine building etc you get my drift versus someone like me that can wield a spanner and bolt things on but would have to pay bodyshops and engine builders etc to essentially get the car ready for me to do the fit up stuff...so wonder what would it cost me to build your 10 second street car ?

Cool outcome regardless.

Cheers,

Shane.

Hi Shane

yes belt off for nitrous passes, I knew it would try throwing it off as engine accelerates much quicker on gas so saved it the hassle , there was the typical headwind at pod which changed direction all day so this may reflect on the mph for the N/A pass, also gearing in 3rd and 4th is so tall that I could probably go quicker using 3 gears only N/A that's why comparing times for different cars is so difficult, they are all different :)

Well simplest answer has to be your oval and add a bottle ;) but as I wrote in reply to Zach if I started with a decent car that needed no bodywork, welding paint etc it would save so much time and maybe money, selling all the stock stuff gets a lot of money back now, a stock good running engine is probably £750 plus etc etc

The cage is included in the final price as Jim did it all,  so really if you buy a decent car, can strip it and put all the stuff like engine, gearbox, fuel lines, oil lines, wiring etc in yourself then there isn't a lot you need to pay someone for after cage is done

At beginning of thread I did say my labour would be free, didn't think I would need so much of it though :D  and the idea for me was to show people that already have a 13 or 12 second car that you can loose a second or so off the ET with the nitrous, there has to be hundreds of Cal look type cars out there with 2110/2276/2332/2387 etc etc engines with decent gearboxes that could do this with what they have already, cage wont make it faster, or the ally seats etc but for me I wanted them for my safety, and I could have just rattled canned it and it would still go the same but I wanted my work to last, again money could be saved ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on August 18, 2015, 19:31:23 pm
"the idea for me was to show people that already have a 13 or 12 second car that you can loose a second or so off the ET with the nitrous, there has to be hundreds of Cal look type cars out there with 2110/2276/2332/2387 etc etc engines with decent gearboxes that could do this with what they have already"

I cut and paste this from your reply Richie as thinks that best answers my question about what was the original intention again with regards to building a street legal racer that could run a 10 second quarter mile.

I appreciate everything else you are saying though.

I no longer have the Oval, sold her to a really nice guy from Newport who wants to tidy her up some more and go drag racing and be competitive. I really hope he does well ( Jim Morse ) and fits NOS as the motor was always built with strength in mind for this ( flanged crank on T4 mains and chevy rod journals / Competition Eliminators and I already had the manifolds tapped and plugged for the NOS jets )   As an example I bought that Oval as a solid car with stock trans and motor that was on the road. It really needed a good respray and I have heard Jim is going to do this. But my costs including purchase of the car, with a Cotsweld 6 point chassis cage for safety in Cro-Mo racing seat and harness, ally panelling, 2332 IDA motor built by JMR and rebuilt by Daz Chandler, Peter at Cogbox built the street / strip spec trans with close 3/ 4th only and a Quaife ATB stood me in approx 22-23k - so to add NOS what another 1k ? call it 24k then and I might have had a 10 second street legal car too - this is just for perspective and not taking away in anyway what you have achieved which I think is great and I take my hat off to you  ;D

Look forward to hearing those ET's are tumbling Richie. Go for it with a 9 second version, that's what I say. Think you know my old mate Chris and his 9 second street legal Scooby powered RWD MK1 Fiesta ?  Do it !!!!  ;)

Cheers,

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 19, 2015, 05:33:49 am
"the idea for me was to show people that already have a 13 or 12 second car that you can loose a second or so off the ET with the nitrous, there has to be hundreds of Cal look type cars out there with 2110/2276/2332/2387 etc etc engines with decent gearboxes that could do this with what they have already"

I cut and paste this from your reply Richie as thinks that best answers my question about what was the original intention again with regards to building a street legal racer that could run a 10 second quarter mile.

I appreciate everything else you are saying though.

I no longer have the Oval, sold her to a really nice guy from Newport who wants to tidy her up some more and go drag racing and be competitive. I really hope he does well ( Jim Morse ) and fits NOS as the motor was always built with strength in mind for this ( flanged crank on T4 mains and chevy rod journals / Competition Eliminators and I already had the manifolds tapped and plugged for the NOS jets )   As an example I bought that Oval as a solid car with stock trans and motor that was on the road. It really needed a good respray and I have heard Jim is going to do this. But my costs including purchase of the car, with a Cotsweld 6 point chassis cage for safety in Cro-Mo racing seat and harness, ally panelling, 2332 IDA motor built by JMR and rebuilt by Daz Chandler, Peter at Cogbox built the street / strip spec trans with close 3/ 4th only and a Quaife ATB stood me in approx 22-23k - so to add NOS what another 1k ? call it 24k then and I might have had a 10 second street legal car too - this is just for perspective and not taking away in anyway what you have achieved which I think is great and I take my hat off to you  ;D

Look forward to hearing those ET's are tumbling Richie. Go for it with a 9 second version, that's what I say. Think you know my old mate Chris and his 9 second street legal Scooby powered RWD MK1 Fiesta ?  Do it !!!!  ;)

Cheers,

Shane.


thought about this a bit, I think you answered your own question here, so how much did it sell for?  say roughly £12k, well if you had very little mechanical skill and couldn't build one yourself then you could have bought your car, added nitrous and gone 10s so even using your £1000 estimate for the nitrous kit you are at £13k, same as what it would cost to replicate my car, and my nitrous kit was about a 1/10th of that cost from a for sale add on here.

So going on that anyone can do it quite easily without spending a fortune 8)

And I already got a car to match Chris's which yes I do know very well, it behaves very much like my version ;) when I finally ship the old cab back to England I will line up with Chris and have some fun ;D


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on August 19, 2015, 07:13:04 am

Really think it will go mid 10s like this with some small changes and some development, silly stuff like a different shifter, when I am driving it on road its fine, but strapped in its just to far away and keep missing gears, need one with more bend in it I think

Long legs and short arms  ;)

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/137803.jpg)

Just a piece of Ali  ;D

Again well done  


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 19, 2015, 16:53:18 pm
Good idea, but I need more bend in it, height is ok but its to far away, been sitting in it drinking tea and trying to figure out a solution, need to look at some berg shifters as Old cab is fine and has one from them in it

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on August 19, 2015, 17:45:42 pm
Richie, don't forget that the cab has the shifter further back - they changed for the 1968 model year, so even using the exact one from the cab wouldn't necessarily give you what you need.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 19, 2015, 18:25:25 pm
Richie, don't forget that the cab has the shifter further back - they changed for the 1968 model year, so even using the exact one from the cab wouldn't necessarily give you what you need.


Just though of that about 45mins ago :),was puzzled why it was so different, tried persuading the shifter rod to bend on what I got but no joy so looking at a Bent one from Bergs at moment


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 22, 2015, 18:55:34 pm
more options


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on August 22, 2015, 20:04:40 pm
looks more "sleeper" with the porka spares.... but personal preff!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WCB Hitler's Hot Rod on August 23, 2015, 06:49:56 am
Could we see more pics of the cage? 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 23, 2015, 08:52:02 am
looks more "sleeper" with the porka spares.... but personal preff!

Agreed, I am happy with it like this :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on August 23, 2015, 09:51:48 am
I like the garage too  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on August 23, 2015, 21:02:22 pm
Richie, nice car, congrats on the number!

Hmmm £2k of nitrous kit and a 82mm crank on shelf, guess the coming months are going to be hectic in the shed!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 23, 2015, 21:31:39 pm
Richie, nice car, congrats on the number!

Hmmm £2k of nitrous kit and a 82mm crank on shelf, guess the coming months are going to be hectic in the shed!

With £2k of nitrous kit I would be trying for 9s at least!!!!!!  :o ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on August 24, 2015, 16:53:05 pm

Richie, nice car, congrats on the number!

Hmmm £2k of nitrous kit and a 82mm crank on shelf, guess the coming months are going to be hectic in the shed!

With £2k of nitrous kit I would be trying for 9s at least!!!!!!  :o ;)

It seems excessive for an extra 25 bhp!

Yeah just need the car sorted ;-)



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 25, 2015, 07:47:17 am
Could we see more pics of the cage? 8)

What do you want to see Steve, let me know and I will post pics up :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 25, 2015, 07:51:59 am


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie



So adding to this to try keep it real, given I was on borrowed wheels and tyres and now I will use some Ercos on back I am adding £500 to the total, £150 for used slicks and £350 for used Ercos, might be able to get the wheels cheaper and if I find another pair of the porsche space saver wheels cheap I will use them but for now I put that value on the Ercos as that seems to be going rate

cheers Richie


Title: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on August 25, 2015, 10:41:13 am
Richie, are slicks a necessity, would the M&H drag radials work on this combo?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on August 25, 2015, 11:35:09 am


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie



So adding to this to try keep it real, given I was on borrowed wheels and tyres and now I will use some Ercos on back I am adding £500 to the total, £150 for used slicks and £350 for used Ercos, might be able to get the wheels cheaper and if I find another pair of the porsche space saver wheels cheap I will use them but for now I put that value on the Ercos as that seems to be going rate

cheers Richie

Seems like good value when you weigh up the all round performance you've achieved.

Re wheels. Think the guy you bought the space savers from had a couple left recently. Would save you £150 on your total.

Would you be able to give some more details on the nos kit you bought.and its composite parts and regarding the ecu bought,  if buying again would you pick a different model or make.

Regards Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 25, 2015, 15:53:52 pm




Seems like good value when you weigh up the all round performance you've achieved.

Re wheels. Think the guy you bought the space savers from had a couple left recently. Would save you £150 on your total.



Thanks will look into that





Would you be able to give some more details on the nos kit you bought.and its composite parts



This is the advert I bought it from, that's all I know about it parts wise, I just tinkered with it ;) and added some switches

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,19857.0.html







and regarding the ecu bought,  if buying again would you pick a different model or make.

Regards Ron



Difficult to say, as I did it based purely on cost if another brand came up for same money or cheaper maybe, but real advantage for this one for me is familiarity with it as its the newer version of what I have on old cab and I think I got it pretty good tune wise without going to a dyno.

There are lots out there to choose from but all only as good as person tuning them

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 25, 2015, 15:55:22 pm
Richie, are slicks a necessity, would the M&H drag radials work on this combo?

I am sure you can run 10s on them as well, so no slicks aren't necessity

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on August 25, 2015, 19:44:43 pm
Thanks for the info Richie

How did your hp v et calculations work out in the real world. I know you did run the 10 you were looking for but was it as deep into a 10 as projected?

Just interested to know how the hp v et calculator works in the real world.

Regards Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 25, 2015, 19:57:21 pm
Thanks for the info Richie

How did your hp v et calculations work out in the real world. I know you did run the 10 you were looking for but was it as deep into a 10 as projected?

Just interested to know how the hp v et calculator works in the real world.

Regards Ron

No not yet, think it should go high 10.70s on a perfect run at about 125mph, and could go quicker, tune is so rich and safe right now and missing gears stopped any progress that day, the 60ft on the 2nd 10 shows the potential is there ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 28, 2015, 09:13:03 am
So, are you going to enter the cab in Super Comp & the 67 in Super Street?  If your desperate & need a 2nd driver.......   :D :P ;)

Congrats by the way, fantastic achievement.


Really?  Funny how great minds think alike eh?  (Or fools seldom differ  ;D )

As for mine, i'm way off.  It'll be next year before i'm finished.  I've been a bit distracted lately with another (small) project.  Well it started out as a small project & has grown a little.  F**king RHD UK cars.........   ;)


As you said fools seldom differ :D

Entry list for National finals so far

http://www.eurodragster.com/santapod/entrylists/2015uknationalfinals.htm          ;)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Udo on August 28, 2015, 09:53:32 am
Bring that car to the track and race proet or super street :-)

Udo


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 28, 2015, 10:12:17 am
Bring that car to the track and race proet or super street :-)

Udo



I am going to race super street :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 10, 2015, 19:36:46 pm
Got some nitrous jets in the mail today so will be able to tune out the over richness now and see what difference that makes, also moved the seat so as to make it fit me better, will see if it helps at all in 2 weekends time  :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 11, 2015, 12:07:10 pm
Are you taking much ignition timing out when on the gas? If so what are you using, the fuel injection computer?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 12, 2015, 10:56:04 am
Are you taking much ignition timing out when on the gas? If so what are you using, the fuel injection computer?

Hi Paul

Yes I did take 3 degrees out to be safe, just did it on the map all the way through the last two columns, I can wire it and program the ECU to do it automatically but its another thing that can go wrong so taking it out already is better right now.

cheers Richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 12, 2015, 12:39:45 pm

Are you taking much ignition timing out when on the gas? If so what are you using, the fuel injection computer?

Hi Paul

Yes I did take 3 degrees out to be safe, just did it on the map all the way through the last two columns, I can wire it and program the ECU to do it automatically but its another thing that can go wrong so taking it out already is better right now.

cheers Richie 

Oh the joys of ECU, how the hell is my old 010 going to do this lol


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 12, 2015, 15:37:16 pm

Are you taking much ignition timing out when on the gas? If so what are you using, the fuel injection computer?

Hi Paul

Yes I did take 3 degrees out to be safe, just did it on the map all the way through the last two columns, I can wire it and program the ECU to do it automatically but its another thing that can go wrong so taking it out already is better right now.

cheers Richie 

Oh the joys of ECU, how the hell is my old 010 going to do this lol

by removing it and other stuff and fitting efi  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 12, 2015, 17:03:37 pm

 how the hell is my old 010 going to do this lol


Electronic module inside instead of points that then fires a MSD box would be my best guess

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Steve D. on September 12, 2015, 17:09:02 pm

 how the hell is my old 010 going to do this lol


Electronic module inside instead of points that then fires a MSD box would be my best guess

cheers Richie

You don't even need to get that complicated, you can trigger the MSD with points (white MSD wire goes to points).  As a bonus, your points will now last forever since there is no power going through them, the MSD only uses them as a ground signal.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 12, 2015, 18:35:31 pm

 how the hell is my old 010 going to do this lol


Electronic module inside instead of points that then fires a MSD box would be my best guess

cheers Richie

You don't even need to get that complicated, you can trigger the MSD with points (white MSD wire goes to points).  As a bonus, your points will now last forever since there is no power going through them, the MSD only uses them as a ground signal.

Perfect, didn't think of that, sounds right up your street Paul? old school looks still :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 13, 2015, 15:43:15 pm
That's pretty much the method I'd come up with, was going to double spring the points to stop them bouncing too.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Steve D. on September 13, 2015, 16:50:48 pm
That's pretty much the method I'd come up with, was going to double spring the points to stop them bouncing too.

I did that too, it made the rubbing block snap off.  Granted that was after about 10,000 miles, but it did leave me stranded for a while (the old used points set I had were robbed of their spring so I could double up the new set!)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: K-Roc on September 14, 2015, 16:04:24 pm
Zebra Stripe points have a stiffer spring. Still available if you search for em   


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: cameron shorey on September 14, 2015, 21:39:09 pm
Zebra Stripe points have a stiffer spring. Still available if you search for em   

They're old style Rabbit/Golf points.
I have the Bosch part number as 1 237 013 116.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 15, 2015, 14:30:46 pm
Thanks will look into these zebra stripe points


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 17, 2015, 13:03:30 pm
Both cars are loaded up ready for a weekend at Santa pod, its the national finals and will be final outing for either car this year so hope weather will be kind and we can get some good runs in both classes, I am running cabrio in Super comp as usual and Nitrous 67 in Super street[ 10.90 index] hoping to run well under index in both cars ;) ;D

It was this meeting in 2003 that I ran my 1st 10s, 10.88 was best so want to beat that at least :)

There will be a live feed for those who want to watch in, you can access it and all info from here

http://www.eurodragstereventcoverage.com/santapod/live/2015uknationalfinals/default.asp

cheers Richie



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Shane Noone on September 17, 2015, 15:05:43 pm
Good Luck Richie, weather looks very promising at the mo' for some fast times and pb's !  Hope you get to run the numbers, be a great way to see out the 2015 season !

Shane.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 18, 2015, 06:21:54 am
Thanks shane, off out the door now :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Udo on September 18, 2015, 07:24:39 am
Good luck and nice weather :-)

Udo


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 18, 2015, 09:18:18 am
Both cars are loaded up ready for a weekend at Santa pod, its the national finals and will be final outing for either car this year so hope weather will be kind and we can get some good runs in both classes, I am running cabrio in Super comp as usual and Nitrous 67 in Super street[ 10.90 index] hoping to run well under index in both cars ;) ;D

It was this meeting in 2003 that I ran my 1st 10s, 10.88 was best so want to beat that at least :)

There will be a live feed for those who want to watch in, you can access it and all info from here

http://www.eurodragstereventcoverage.com/santapod/live/2015uknationalfinals/default.asp

cheers Richie



Good luck Richie and pedal to the metal! The live feed above + dragweek + a live feed from Kjula this weekend = plenty fun!

-K-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 18, 2015, 15:54:17 pm
It is indeed interesting to watch the live feed. I have NEVER seen anyone polishing, cleaning and checking the track as much as the crew at Santa Pod. After every pair they go out on the track and spray it with cleaner and wipes it off. Impressive indeed!

-BB-


Title: Re:
Post by: Jo Clifford on September 19, 2015, 11:30:25 am
First pass, crap 60ft, spun the tyres, 10.73 @ 122.5


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on September 19, 2015, 13:23:03 pm
Must be a challenge running 2 cars at 1 event?
See the other car ran an 8.13  ;D


Title: Re:
Post by: Jo Clifford on September 19, 2015, 15:20:43 pm
Second pass bogged off the line, 10.98 @ 120mph, number 1 qualifier - whoops!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 19, 2015, 17:47:34 pm
Oh... what happened? High wheelie then hard left.

One interesting thing since I`m looking at both Kjula and Santa Pod. 10 pairs at Santa Pod equals 3-4 pairs at Kjula. We all know that the Swedes are a bit slow... but dam!

-BB-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Andy Sykes on September 19, 2015, 18:26:43 pm
Electrical fault we've fixed it ready for tmw


Title: Re: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jo Clifford on September 19, 2015, 19:20:50 pm
Oh... what happened? High wheelie then hard left.

One interesting thing since I`m looking at both Kjula and Santa Pod. 10 pairs at Santa Pod equals 3-4 pairs at Kjula. We all know that the Swedes are a bit slow... but dam!

-BB-
Last pass shook a wire loose, which cut ignition, easy fix, both cars are ready for tomorrow :)


Title: Re: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jo Clifford on September 19, 2015, 19:23:52 pm
Must be a challenge running 2 cars at 1 event?
See the other car ran an 8.13  ;D
First run with each car was the only tight one, as Richie was going up the track in the cab they were calling the class for the '67 to the lanes so he drove the cab back & jumped straight into the '67 and actually was the first one in the lanes for that class :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 19, 2015, 19:24:19 pm
good stuff guys


Title: Re: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 19, 2015, 19:27:41 pm
Must be a challenge running 2 cars at 1 event?
See the other car ran an 8.13  ;D
First run with each car was the only tight one, as Richie was going up the track in the cab they were calling the class for the '67 to the lanes so he drove the cab back & jumped straight into the '67 and actually was the first one in the lanes for that class :)

Hahaha! Good one.  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on September 19, 2015, 20:23:08 pm
That's a great way of hot lapping :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 20, 2015, 16:03:46 pm
10.423 - 124.5 mph. Job well done Richie and Co!

-BB-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 20, 2015, 16:45:55 pm
proper quick good work  8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on September 20, 2015, 19:41:41 pm
Well done this weekend Richie.
Now go enjoy yourself in the sun  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 20, 2015, 20:19:34 pm
10.423 - 124.5 mph. Job well done Richie and Co!

-BB-


Was a good way to finish the weekend, nice straight pass, no wheelie just straight down the track, thinking I need to change the title off the thread to a 9 maybe?  :D


Some video and pictures coming soon



Well done this weekend Richie.
Now go enjoy yourself in the sun  ;)


Spent half the journey home thinking about a nitrous engine for old cab now :o ;D, looking forward to driving it again this week coming  8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Airspeed on September 20, 2015, 20:54:26 pm
Dang! thats moving. 1.45 60ft is very impressive!!

Congrats! You surpassed your goal by a landslide  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 20, 2015, 21:14:41 pm
Mmmm what next ?



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 20, 2015, 22:26:27 pm
mph at the 1/8 is blinding   8) 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Stripped66 on September 21, 2015, 01:08:12 am
Mmmm what next ?

Based on what the guy next to you ran, it looks like you need a Matty Box.  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Zach Gomulka on September 21, 2015, 01:44:39 am
Wow, well under target. How much bottle on that pass?

Makes me wonder how little engine you could build to hit 10's, with the same shot of gas. 2165? 2054? 1915??


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on September 21, 2015, 08:13:14 am


Spent half the journey home thinking about a nitrous engine for old cab now :o ;D, looking forward to driving it again this week coming  8)

cheers Richie

Bet you are. Got a taste for the real street cars again. Simpler times  ;)
Is there's much difference in weight if you compare everything to go with the turbo setup vs the Nos setup incl full bottle?
I know you've already taken the intercooler etc out.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:21:34 am
Mmmm what next ?

Based on what the guy next to you ran, it looks like you need a Matty Box.  :D

Not sure what that is? but car in other lane is a model A sedan delivery with a big block mopar so he runs it to about 1000ft then brakes hard, not the way I would do it ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:23:41 am
Wow, well under target. How much bottle on that pass?

Makes me wonder how little engine you could build to hit 10's, with the same shot of gas. 2165? 2054? 1915??

1915 no problem at all  ;) , think the bore size on a 1776 would restrict it to much, not enough room for decent ex valve to get it out

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:26:27 am


Spent half the journey home thinking about a nitrous engine for old cab now :o ;D, looking forward to driving it again this week coming  8)

cheers Richie

Bet you are. Got a taste for the real street cars again. Simpler times  ;)
Is there's much difference in weight if you compare everything to go with the turbo setup vs the Nos setup incl full bottle?
I know you've already taken the intercooler etc out.

Cab is probably 100lbs more at moment, will see at vegas when it goes over the scales, ally case & bus box doesn't help either

cheers Richie   


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on September 21, 2015, 08:31:13 am
Great fun watching it run  ;D
You may need to rename this thread soon " how much money to run 9's in a street car "  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:42:43 am
Had to add £15 to the total this weekend to get the cage cert done :o  :D  


and a couple of random pics I took


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 21, 2015, 08:46:07 am
I really had to laugh when the speakers in the tower where talking about you Richie. Mr Break Out. They did not realize that you had two cars and thought you had registered for the 10.90 class with your cab. Typical Mr Webb they said  ;D  ;D  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:53:17 am
I really had to laugh when the speakers in the tower where talking about you Richie. Mr Break Out. They did not realize that you had two cars and thought you had registered for the 10.90 class with your cab. Typical Mr Webb they said  ;D  ;D  ;D

That's one thing I really miss, listening to the commentators is always good & amusing ;D but I never get to here it normally when I run the car unless some gets caught on background in video


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:54:07 am
Great fun watching it run  ;D
You may need to rename this thread soon " how much money to run 9's in a street car "  ;D


Maybe super gas at easter then  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 08:57:05 am
Dang! thats moving. 1.45 60ft is very impressive!!

Congrats! You surpassed your goal by a landslide  :D

Thanks Walter, and its just a simple cable clutch with normal kennedy cover and disc, think if I wanted to convert it to hydraulic it could go into 1.30s 60ft with some work :o I still only got 10 passes on car so still learning what it needs :)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 16:36:49 pm
Video of 10.42 pass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0-VKLRqT6Y&feature=em-share_video_user


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on September 21, 2015, 17:18:47 pm
Nice run. I missed the afternoon ones as we went out for lunch. And before you say it, no it wasn't a picnic  :P  :D
The commentary every time you came on was good though the whole weekend. Especially when you got to No 1 qualifier on the second run.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 17:21:53 pm
And the not so perfect launch pass before  :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 21, 2015, 18:57:20 pm
Richie, how much nitrous, how much retard and how much fuel did you add? And do you launch on the 2 step with full throttle and nitrous?

Thanks,
-K-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 19:19:28 pm
And the not so perfect launch pass before  :o

Got the sequence now thanks to blackett photography and thought it might show just how wild it was :o I enjoyed seeing it so hopefully some of you will as well  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 19:44:18 pm
Richie, how much nitrous, how much retard and how much fuel did you add? And do you launch on the 2 step with full throttle and nitrous?

Thanks,
-K-

Not sure, jetted for about 95-100 but afr was low 10s so to rich to make that power

4 degrees retard, but as I said to someone in a PM that asked, and I am sure you know, this is really affected by how much total you have to begin with

Its a wet kit so jetted to suit extra fuel needed

Launch on 2 step, nitrous off

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on September 21, 2015, 20:00:30 pm
Its the gas that makes the power, not the nitrous. Or at least that is what I thought. Looking at the nitrous cars racing at Drag Week most of them smoked like old diesels going down the strip.

So you use a wet system instead of telling your DTA to add extra fuel using on of the analoge inputs? Interesting.

-K-


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 21, 2015, 20:04:33 pm
Its the gas that makes the power, not the nitrous. Or at least that is what I thought. Looking at the nitrous cars racing at Drag Week most of them smoked like old diesels going down the strip.

So you use a wet system instead of telling your DTA to add extra fuel using on of the analoge inputs? Interesting.

-K-

Yes you are correct, but still needs to be decent afr or not enough oxygen to burn all the fuel, system I got was wet, that's what I used before and knew so stuck with it, might use the dta for the 2 stage next year ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Dead Dog on September 22, 2015, 12:36:48 pm
That's one thing I really miss, listening to the commentators is always good & amusing ;D but I never get to here it normally when I run the car unless some gets caught on background in video

It pretty much always starts " and there is Richie Webb in the bonkers beetle "  ;D 8) ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Iryanu on September 22, 2015, 17:58:18 pm
I watched that wheelie on the webcam and had my heart in mouth. :o The perspective from the cam made it look properly bonkers!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 22, 2015, 19:11:00 pm
I watched that wheelie on the webcam and had my heart in mouth. :o The perspective from the cam made it look properly bonkers!

 :D  And was just thinking about grabbing 2nd gear and getting on with it ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Tufty65 on September 22, 2015, 21:51:49 pm
Dang! thats moving. 1.45 60ft is very impressive!!

Congrats! You surpassed your goal by a landslide  :D

Thanks Walter, and its just a simple cable clutch with normal kennedy cover and disc, think if I wanted to convert it to hydraulic it could go into 1.30s 60ft with some work :o I still only got 10 passes on car so still learning what it needs :)


cheers Richie

On the subject of hydraulic clutch would you use a management system with an adjustable bypass valve for 1st? Reason I'm asking is I'm looking for that valve but can only find ones rated to 250bar.   Can you recommend anywhere please?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on September 22, 2015, 22:09:59 pm
I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Tufty65 on September 23, 2015, 11:49:52 am
I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

Have you used that one ? as it's similar to the one I already have and because they only really work at high pressures and the window of adjustment on them when you turn the dial is only about 1mm which is no good.
Sorry for the thread hijack Richie, better get back on topic.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 23, 2015, 13:43:32 pm
I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

Have you used that one ? as it's similar to the one I already have and because they only really work at high pressures and the window of adjustment on them when you turn the dial is only about 1mm which is no good.
Sorry for the thread hijack Richie, better get back on topic.

No problem, that one does look like mine though, it only the last 3/4 of a turn that really helps with mine, not found a "one size fits all" valve yet on my travels, still looking though ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on September 26, 2015, 11:52:19 am
Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking. If I had a complete longblock with no ignition/carbs etc what would be the cost in replicating the fuel injection/ignition/nitrous system you run on the 67?

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 26, 2015, 17:52:42 pm
about the same as idas msd 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on September 26, 2015, 23:04:37 pm
Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking.
Lee

Oh dear.
 ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 27, 2015, 01:47:49 am
Hi Richie,
This Nitrous idea has got me thinking.
Lee

Oh dear.
 ;D

Now, now,  the idea is to get people thinking about it ;)  Done right its a really good way to make power ;D 8)





Lee, as Danny said the EFI set up is probably very similar in cost to a pair of IDAs with all the stuff done to them and a MSD ignition set up[dizzy, box, coil & leads] I don't have all the costing to hand as I am somewhere warm now, but off top of my head ECU, loom, sensors & Injectors cost £650, Throttle bodies with fuel rails and TPS were $800 so say £550 and crank trigger set up with pulley about £100, some of this was used so new would be more

Now with a IDA set up with nitrous you really need 2 pumps, yes people do it with one but it has to be a really good pump & 2 regulators, but if you do it on budget and use say 2 holley pumps you need 2 regs, 2 fuel lines from tank to rear etc etc and I get expensive quickly but the EFI pump usually has plenty of reserve and you just T off the fuel line for the nitrous and save even more 8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 27, 2015, 08:54:35 am
I actually think the carb setup nitrous costs more the FI setup, add in the safety gear, fuel pressure switches if running low pressure over FI pressure, retard switches or the top end MSD boxes.
The fuel injection higher pressure also helps deliver fuel a little quicker than a lower pressure carb setup, so thanks to our engine design, a controlled delay on the n2o solenoid otherwise you have lean nitrous mix as its coming at 1000 psi over 10 psi fuel pressure so that's a digital controller.
Or ideal scenario, dual n2o and fuel solenoids, each pair feeding each head. So double the price of the solenoids.
Add in all the additional stuff; assorted gauges (fuel and nitrous), bottle heater and bottle pressure safety switch for heater. It got expensive quick


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dannyboy on September 27, 2015, 10:53:46 am
trouble is efi isn't what the cool kids use....  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 27, 2015, 15:58:14 pm
I actually think the carb setup nitrous costs more the FI setup, add in the safety gear, fuel pressure switches if running low pressure over FI pressure, retard switches or the top end MSD boxes.
The fuel injection higher pressure also helps deliver fuel a little quicker than a lower pressure carb setup, so thanks to our engine design, a controlled delay on the n2o solenoid otherwise you have lean nitrous mix as its coming at 1000 psi over 10 psi fuel pressure so that's a digital controller.
Or ideal scenario, dual n2o and fuel solenoids, each pair feeding each head. So double the price of the solenoids.
Add in all the additional stuff; assorted gauges (fuel and nitrous), bottle heater and bottle pressure safety switch for heater. It got expensive quick

As ECUs get better and cheaper and more have the knowledge to tune them I think you are right, a simple EFI set up with nitrous is cheaper than carbs/msd/nitrous set up, some of the stuff you mention is sold to play on peoples paranoia about "nitrous makes your engine go bang" stories
I think a controller really helps make it smoother but have need had the need for the rest of the add ons, and as we are not trying to get the last hp out of every once of nitrous having real short lines and using 2 solenoids per side isn't needed either, well not for me anyway :o  A bottle heater is nice but I manage without one at moment.
For most out there who might try this now a 50hp shot will be plenty enough and at that level it should just be kept simple, a kit and a couple of activation switches 8)


Danny, no idea what you are talking about, all the cool kids have EFI on there moms Honda and tune it with there phone :D ;D  apparently ::)

cheers Richie


Title: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 27, 2015, 20:49:45 pm
So what are you saying Richie? This setup I have is OTT? I watched fast n furious all of them back to back!! 😉


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Turbo_Rich on September 28, 2015, 13:35:27 pm
Great thread Richie very interesting to see the progress and good to see the tradition of breaking the class index in style :)

A couple of vids i took of project 10.

https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs (https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs)

https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs (https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs)

oh and one of the 8.13 in the other car

https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA (https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 28, 2015, 18:47:23 pm
So what are you saying Richie? This setup I have is OTT? I watched fast n furious all of them back to back!! 😉


 ::) :o Tosser   :D  That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 28, 2015, 18:49:08 pm
Great thread Richie very interesting to see the progress and good to see the tradition of breaking the class index in style :)

A couple of vids i took of project 10.

https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs (https://youtu.be/EzO9nWldcRs)

https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs (https://youtu.be/DT5Op6yWcGs)

oh and one of the 8.13 in the other car

https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA (https://youtu.be/nitoOQKRkJA)




Thanks Rich, vids are always cool to see from different places, now if SE would just allow a little 6inch slick for 4 cylinder cars I could go run it there and not break out ever ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on September 28, 2015, 19:16:58 pm



 ::) :o Tosser   :D  That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car

Oh well it will be interesting when the car is back next year


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 28, 2015, 23:49:21 pm



 ::) :o Tosser   :D  That set up is more for a 9 sec tube car

Oh well it will be interesting when the car is back next year

Yep, just stick to the plan now and see how it works, should be fun anyway 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on October 27, 2015, 18:00:45 pm
I'll buy this one:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Flow-Control-Valves/1-4-NPT-5-GPM-PRINCE-WFC-400-IN-LINE-FLOW-CONTROL-9-7960-4.axd

I got one of these now, wont be buying another one, It needs a selection of conversion fittings to make it work and is no better than what I was using before

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on October 27, 2015, 18:07:26 pm
I splashed out and bought a new Berg RHD shifter, got one with a nice bend in it so no more excuses for missed shifts next year :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: NoBars on October 28, 2015, 19:08:27 pm
If you would just sit on the correct side of the car....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on October 28, 2015, 20:24:07 pm
If you would just sit on the correct side of the car....

I just tried, seems worse and I cant reach the pedals ?   ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on October 30, 2015, 19:25:39 pm
Let's try and get another set of pedals in the car like the learner driver cars have.
That'll confuse people  :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on October 30, 2015, 22:10:15 pm
My wife's been asking for an extra brake pedal for years........


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: RPM Tim on November 25, 2015, 18:54:04 pm
For most out there who might try this now a 50hp shot will be plenty enough and at that level it should just be kept simple, a kit and a couple of activation switches 8)



cheers Richie

Say someone  ::) is considering this.. is there a kit out that you would recommend? Have you seen problems with different brand solenoids over any other?
Using carbs/ Ida's at the moment, so thinking just wot and a window switch would be fine for a 50-75ish shot & would be fun!

Just saw this is my first post on this forum, so thank you for this thread! Maybe I can bump my 12sec car to a 10


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 26, 2015, 10:51:21 am
Say someone  ::) is considering this.. is there a kit out that you would recommend? Have you seen problems with different brand solenoids over any other?
Using carbs/ Ida's at the moment, so thinking just wot and a window switch would be fine for a 50-75ish shot & would be fun!

Just saw this is my first post on this forum, so thank you for this thread! Maybe I can bump my 12sec car to a 10

I like the way you are thinking ;D

What country are you in?

I just have regular NOS brand solenoids on car at moment but given choice I would use WON solenoids, a simple arm switch, throttle activated micro switch would be good enough for 50hp, depending on how you launch & leave line, 2step? off Handbrake/E brake? then an additional micro switch on clutch or handbrake would be useful to stop nitrous being on until you leave line

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: RPM Tim on November 26, 2015, 15:25:07 pm
In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough  ???
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 30, 2015, 17:56:45 pm
In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough  ???
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,

I have never used NX brand so cant say, but they have been around a while and you don't see anything negative so see no reason why not, and a 2 way switch sounds ideal, good luck 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 30, 2015, 18:06:44 pm
I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well ::) :P  ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase  :o :-X

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: K-Roc on November 30, 2015, 18:54:57 pm
In the US so not sure of availability of WON stuff, A quick look at Summit shows NX has a kit for acvw and I assume they're good enough  ???
  I was also thinking may need another switch since I leave around 6k+,  off the handbrake. I do have a 2step and will get it working over winter ,so maybe I can use the same activation switch for both // it uses a normally closed switch so perfect? That will be somewhere off the brake handle,

Hey if your looking for a no nonsense basic kit at the 50-75 H.P. power level, this is about the best deal your gonna find.
https://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=127

I have purchase from him many times, Good service and prices.

Nitrous Supply in Huntington Beach is pretty good too.

https://www.nitroussupply.com/proddetail.php?prod=05430&cat=94


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on December 01, 2015, 10:18:43 am
I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well ::) :P  ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase  :o :-X

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor :)

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ??  ;D

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 01, 2015, 11:58:29 am
I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well ::) :P  ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase  :o :-X

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor :)

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ??  ;D

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds

Its all genuine VW etched glass so that would help :) , just need to find some sensibly priced and cut it myself I think

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 02, 2015, 19:38:34 pm
Had it on the scales today, as exact as I could get it to when it was going down the track on the 10.42 pass, it weighs 1788lbs with me in it with race suit, helmet, window net, steel decklid, passenger seat oil tray etc.

With some weight reduction in mind I started with some simple things to remove or swap like
 
drivers seat cover[ 2.5 lbs]
then passenger seat[ 22lbs ] 
fiberglass decklid instead of steel [5lbs]
Lightweight battery instead of stock [23lbs]
Normal race suit instead of heavy /15 suit I have to wear in cabrio [5lbs]

so a good start :)  I have calculated I need to loose 113lbs total

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on December 12, 2015, 19:42:39 pm

I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well ::) :P  ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase  :o :-X

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor :)

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ??  ;D

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds

Its all genuine VW etched glass so that would help :) , just need to find some sensibly priced and cut it myself I think

cheers Richie

I've got a pair of side windows you can have in lexan


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 12, 2015, 19:56:17 pm

I am not one for leaving stuff alone so with winter here I got plans for some things that will hopefully make it better both on street and ET, so 1st thing loose a little weight[ yes me as well ::) :P  ] but focussing on the car, idea is still to keep it as cheap as possible but with the success of "how much money to run 10s in a street car"  there is only one logical next phase  :o :-X

So I spent a few hours looking at stuff that could be lighter without much outlay, 1st all the stupid things like bolts that are to long are getting shortened and replacing the steel bolts and washers on wings and running boards with lighter ones. My aim is to get car down to about 1700lbs [and not go crazy with a holesaw or drill]  weight with driver suited up in it so helmet etc.
So todays total loss 909grams/2lb 0.06 which doesn't include all the grinding/cutting filings on the floor :)

cheers Richie

"how much faster can you run in a 10 second street car" ??  ;D

I don`t remember if you have lexand or glass windows in this car, but changing into lexan on side and rear window is easy lost pounds

Its all genuine VW etched glass so that would help :) , just need to find some sensibly priced and cut it myself I think

cheers Richie

I've got a pair of side windows you can have in lexan

Cool thanks mate :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: FatKid on December 23, 2015, 09:27:24 am
This is exactly what I needed, thank you Richie. I have a '58 that I've had for a better part of ten years that I've been waiting to start. Now that it is it's turn, I've been trying to figure out how to go about doing it. Originally it was to be a gasser, then that changed to a DKP type car, but more recently I've been leaning towards a street legal strip car. So I have spent the last few years collecting original '58 parts and speed parts.

Over the last few days I have read this thread from start to finish. I had my goal set to get into the 12's in a slightly lightened street trim (plus I am a large handicap being an excessively large fellow), mostly steel bug. After reading this, I like the idea of not ringing out the engine with high compression and exotic fuels. I love the style of the Swedish guys with the raised and narrowed torsion housing but not sure if it's overkill for me.

As of right now the engine is a mild manor 2332 with IDA's set with about 8.5:1 compression. I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression. I went with a KCR Pro Street Plus back when it was only gonna be a street car. I know the trans will be the limiting factor. I know I need to pull weight out of the car to get it to it's potential. I have collected so far a carbon front hood and a fiberglass large scoop decklid. I need to lose the German fenders for some lighter ones. I wanted to switch to Chevy pattern brakes and wheels but I think I might stay wide 5. I already have a brand new set of Center Lines still in the box. And that'll help me keep the cost down as well. There is a bunch I still need to learn but I'm on my way.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 23, 2015, 11:16:31 am
This is exactly what I needed, thank you Richie. I have a '58 that I've had for a better part of ten years that I've been waiting to start. Now that it is it's turn, I've been trying to figure out how to go about doing it. Originally it was to be a gasser, then that changed to a DKP type car, but more recently I've been leaning towards a street legal strip car. So I have spent the last few years collecting original '58 parts and speed parts.

Over the last few days I have read this thread from start to finish. I had my goal set to get into the 12's in a slightly lightened street trim (plus I am a large handicap being an excessively large fellow), mostly steel bug. After reading this, I like the idea of not ringing out the engine with high compression and exotic fuels. I love the style of the Swedish guys with the raised and narrowed torsion housing but not sure if it's overkill for me.

As of right now the engine is a mild manor 2332 with IDA's set with about 8.5:1 compression. I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression. I went with a KCR Pro Street Plus back when it was only gonna be a street car. I know the trans will be the limiting factor. I know I need to pull weight out of the car to get it to it's potential. I have collected so far a carbon front hood and a fiberglass large scoop decklid. I need to lose the German fenders for some lighter ones. I wanted to switch to Chevy pattern brakes and wheels but I think I might stay wide 5. I already have a brand new set of Center Lines still in the box. And that'll help me keep the cost down as well. There is a bunch I still need to learn but I'm on my way.

Sounds like you got a cool basis for a quick car there 8) and earlier cars are lighter to begin with so it all helps :)  If you want to remain somewhat streetable I would stick to wide 5 brakes, you can always get some Ercos to chop the weight down.
Glad to see the thread helping and motivating you to go for it 8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: benlawrence on December 28, 2015, 14:49:37 pm
I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression.

Ive run AA's for 3 years in my all steel street car 10.5-1 and regular visits to 8000rpm territory, zero issues and im extremely hard on my engine, imo the AA's are pretty good at my level.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 28, 2015, 20:07:45 pm
I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression.

Ive run AA's for 3 years in my all steel street car 10.5-1 and regular visits to 8000rpm territory, zero issues and im extremely hard on my engine, imo the AA's are pretty good at my level.

Which ones Ben? are they the coated version similar to the wisecos? I wouldn't want to be wanting to use the budget ones to those limits :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: benlawrence on December 28, 2015, 22:23:41 pm
I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression.

Ive run AA's for 3 years in my all steel street car 10.5-1 and regular visits to 8000rpm territory, zero issues and im extremely hard on my engine, imo the AA's are pretty good at my level.

Which ones Ben? are they the coated version similar to the wisecos? I wouldn't want to be wanting to use the budget ones to those limits :o


cheers Richie

They are coated but they arent forged ala wiseco, they are the hypertuteric version pretty much same as the mahles i.e the cheap version, weve ran them in 3 motors that see over 7500 rpm regularly and never had any issues over the years.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: FatKid on January 11, 2016, 07:25:46 am
I was planning to swap out the AA p/c for something stronger and bump the compression.

Ive run AA's for 3 years in my all steel street car 10.5-1 and regular visits to 8000rpm territory, zero issues and im extremely hard on my engine, imo the AA's are pretty good at my level.

Which ones Ben? are they the coated version similar to the wisecos? I wouldn't want to be wanting to use the budget ones to those limits :o


cheers Richie
They are coated but they arent forged ala wiseco, they are the hypertuteric version pretty much same as the mahles i.e the cheap version, weve ran them in 3 motors that see over 7500 rpm regularly and never had any issues over the years.

I am not sure which ones I have. It was built about 5-6 years ago. So I'm guessing they are just the cheap ones. However I know the builder, I'll try and track him down to see what he can tell me.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 18, 2016, 17:37:17 pm
So latest progress, this is without decklid but everything else as I would go down track and still with my thick racesuit [ I have a normal one I will use  but didn't have it to hand] belt was still on with all tin etc
1st pic is as would be raced, 2nd pic car on own with no driver/racesuit/helmet

I still have a few ideas but not much big left so wont make huge difference to total

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on January 19, 2016, 17:38:04 pm
Is there a reason for the 25lb difference on the rear sides?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 19, 2016, 17:56:51 pm
Is there a reason for the 25lb difference on the rear sides?

Yes, everything was just thrown in car as I was only after total weight and tyres weren't set equal, just aired the slicks up, that alone can make a huge difference, also it now only has a driver seat so more on that side

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on January 19, 2016, 18:13:46 pm
50lb off with driver is not a huge deal, I've spent hours trying to get below that sort of figure, even then not achieving it,  torsion bars can suffer a lot of 'sticksion' with eurathane bushes, giving misleading and un repeatable readings, the front is very good for a torsion bar car, a bad front balance is disastrous for a circuit car, worst thing is it won't brake well, let alone steer.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 19, 2016, 18:58:46 pm
50lb off with driver is not a huge deal, I've spent hours trying to get below that sort of figure, even then not achieving it,  torsion bars can suffer a lot of 'sticksion' with eurathane bushes, giving misleading and un repeatable readings, the front is very good for a torsion bar car, a bad front balance is disastrous for a circuit car, worst thing is it won't brake well, let alone steer.

On the New cabrio I got it within 5lbs rear side to side and about 20lbs front, and old cab was within 3lbs front and about 10lb rear, just takes some work and time with thinking head on ;), amazing what a difference slightly different roll out on slicks makes as well, next I will move battery over to pass side then move bottle around till I get best place for that, and maybe driver can loose a few pounds to help as well ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Paul Bahnstormerz on January 19, 2016, 20:32:40 pm

Is there a reason for the 25lb difference on the rear sides?

Yes, everything was just thrown in car as I was only after total weight and tyres weren't set equal, just aired the slicks up, that alone can make a huge difference, also it now only has a driver seat so more on that side

cheers Richie

And there I was thinking you had some unknown science going on!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on July 11, 2016, 21:28:42 pm


I hope you didn't buy that number plate to show it's a budget build car, You Tight Arse  :D :D :D



See that's the German in you, its actually  Young Trendy Affluent       :o :D ;D

More miles on it this weekend  8)

I saw this at Le Mans Classic. It's the real deal Porsche Transporter from the old days. Check out the number plate. The perfect transporter for the '67.
[attachment=1]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 12, 2016, 09:17:33 am
Nice, think that would blow the budget though :D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on July 12, 2016, 18:20:08 pm
Nice, think that would blow the budget though :D

cheers Richie

haha! if Frank still has his bus, this can be an inspiration to make something similar, that MUST be achievable budget wise…  ;D

it could be the first real bus on gas burners, think about it Richie!  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2016, 11:58:52 am
Car is on the back burner at moment with to much else going on but I did get these arrive today, 6.2lbs each :)


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 21, 2016, 12:06:43 pm
Car is on the back burner at moment with to much else going on but I did get these arrive today, 6.2lbs each :)


cheers Richie

Hmm. Makes me feel my spares are heavy weight..


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 21, 2016, 19:52:28 pm
Car is on the back burner at moment with to much else going on but I did get these arrive today, 6.2lbs each :)


cheers Richie

Hmm. Makes me feel my spares are heavy weight..

Yep, these feel really light when I picked them up, probably wouldn't take to many wheelies though :o

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on July 23, 2016, 10:03:27 am
Remember, it's a street car  ;D

Or do you want to change the thread title to "how much money and weight to run run low 9s in a pro street car"  :o :o ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 23, 2016, 17:29:44 pm
Remember, it's a street car  ;D

Or do you want to change the thread title to "how much money and weight to run run low 9s in a pro street car"  :o :o ;)

Yes it is, but like fitting slicks and stinger at the track, race front wheels with front runners is a good thing, and high 9s will do ;) ;D

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: j-f on July 23, 2016, 21:39:04 pm
Looks like a good recipe for hot rod drag week too  :)



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on July 24, 2016, 08:00:36 am
Some weight saving ideas for you

http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/07/when-bike-meets-beetle/


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Mags on July 24, 2016, 12:05:50 pm
Richie  you  can see Jørns Bug on SCC.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: hotstreetvw on October 30, 2016, 06:06:24 am
Richie,

Do you run any type of rear engine support, traction bar, kafer bar, etc beside having the cage tied into the frame horns?  Any issues with wheel hop?

Will


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 03, 2016, 22:02:18 pm
Richie,

Do you run any type of rear engine support, traction bar, kafer bar, etc beside having the cage tied into the frame horns?  Any issues with wheel hop?

Will


Hi Will

no nothing else

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: hotstreetvw on November 04, 2016, 17:54:24 pm
Awesome.  I ran the two "B" bars down through the package tray and tied into the frame horns.  They are flanged right below the package tray.  I split a 6"x6".125" plate and welded to the package tray to support the area due to having the narrowed torsion and no rear body mounts.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 05, 2016, 00:17:48 am
Awesome.  I ran the two "B" bars down through the package tray and tied into the frame horns.  They are flanged right below the package tray.  I split a 6"x6".125" plate and welded to the package tray to support the area due to having the narrowed torsion and no rear body mounts.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]

Looks good :)  Mine braces across to shock towers as well, also best thing I did to stop wheelhop was tie cage to torsion housing, it is amazing how much it moves when its not tied in, on old cabrio I was just starting to see some flex on rear of frame fork after cage down tube end of last year but that is at about 600hp level and hitting it really hard about 20-30ft out with a small tyre which doesn't help

cheers Richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on November 05, 2016, 07:11:52 am
also best thing I did to stop wheelhop was tie cage to torsion housing, it is amazing how much it moves when its not tied in

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on November 05, 2016, 08:03:48 am
Looks good :)  Mine braces across to shock towers as well, also best thing I did to stop wheelhop was tie cage to torsion housing, it is amazing how much it moves when its not tied in,

It's not something that most people think about. I didn't, even with a low 12-second car.
It surprised me when I sold Headstraight at the end of 2005 that there were some cracks in the body where the crossmembers join the ends of the heater channels. Not rust, but stress fractures. Of course the crossmembers are bolted to the end of the torsion tubes so they move with the that. I'd got a couple of bars joining the inner arches across the car and down to the end of the frame horns, and a couple more going forwards from them to the main hoop. If I'd have kept the car I would have removed the shock mounts and tied the torsion housings to those bars and mounted the shocks off them too.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 06, 2016, 09:17:03 am
This looks good, I want to fabricate something similar for my street car but that will not run a cage. I thought about bracing to the corner of the underside of the parcel tray and inner wing but I feel this may flex? Maybe I could run a bar inside the car behind the rear seat that this bolts to?
Any ideas?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: WhiteTrash on November 06, 2016, 17:19:14 pm
also best thing I did to stop wheelhop was tie cage to torsion housing, it is amazing how much it moves when its not tied in

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?

This is what Richie means. I had to do it on my car as the small tab from the torsion housing on which the floor pan sits, snapped straight through. Now the car launches better. The bars are just welded straight to the inside of the shock tower.
[attachment=1][attachment=2][attachment=3]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 07, 2016, 16:46:06 pm

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


 :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on November 07, 2016, 20:15:24 pm
thanks! i can put that on my eternal to-do-list  ::)  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 07, 2016, 23:07:09 pm

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


 :)

cheers Richie

Richie, on a mexican body there is a hole there to bolt the body to top of the torsionhousing.
Is that not the case in every beetle?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on November 08, 2016, 08:06:16 am

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


 :)

cheers Richie

Richie, on a mexican body there is a hole there to bolt the body to top of the torsionhousing.
Is that not the case in every beetle?

There is, but that's why my car started cracking the body - the torsion housing was moving relative to the cage and frame forks and taking the body with it!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on November 08, 2016, 09:22:06 am
VW left the bolts out on late cars, 1302/3 models still had the fixings on the torsion tube but no bolts used, :-\ not sure about Brazilian production, one tweak I did on the cup cars was removing the rubber packing from the inner wing mountings and making it solid with a steel insert and a decent washer and bolt, I'd noticed how much the torsion tube moved while repairing rust bucket street cars so plenty of rear steer from toe change, tight regs stopped any real re enforcing being added unless factory, we could run front axle stiffeners for instance.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: baz on November 08, 2016, 09:48:05 am
Would something like the pic below be effective in a car without a cage?  Say the uprights from the framehorns were further to the ends of framehorns , more vertical than in the pic and connected to a plate welded to the luggage floor. Then a crossbar connecting the shock towers and diagonals down to the torsion housing?


(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18831.0;attach=79478)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 08, 2016, 15:44:27 pm

can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


 :)

cheers Richie

Richie, on a mexican body there is a hole there to bolt the body to top of the torsionhousing.
Is that not the case in every beetle?

There is, but that's why my car started cracking the body - the torsion housing was moving relative to the cage and frame forks and taking the body with it!

VW left the bolts out on late cars, 1302/3 models still had the fixings on the torsion tube but no bolts used, :-\ not sure about Brazilian production, one tweak I did on the cup cars was removing the rubber packing from the inner wing mountings and making it solid with a steel insert and a decent washer and bolt, I'd noticed how much the torsion tube moved while repairing rust bucket street cars so plenty of rear steer from toe change, tight regs stopped any real re enforcing being added unless factory, we could run front axle stiffeners for instance.

Ok clear.  :)

Oooh spanners did you see how Remmele braces his rear suspension on circuit cars
http://remmelemotorsport.com/bodengruppe.html


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on November 08, 2016, 21:48:43 pm
Thanks Eddie, yes, it is impressive, not wanting to piss on their fire, but it's a lot of tube work, IE weight, also air Jack turrets, a car like that will weigh in at over 1000 kg, it won't out turn and brake a 700kg car, plus I can't see any uk saloon race series that allow air jacks, again, weight, I get ill with anxiety if I see my race ready weight go over 800kg with me in the seat! That's with liquid cooling, rads, coolers, the lot, I then have to take parts of and throw them away, I don't know why I even have instruments, I never look at them and dream of a flyweight digi dash and minimal thin wall wiring, :D my shocks are over slung on the a arm and tie into the rear cage through the wheel box, the old shock towers are about to get the chop, but hey, off topic, but build em light as possible.  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 08, 2016, 22:49:06 pm
(https://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp1/eXraycer/A8CC967A-E699-490D-8543-C149A04EDB11-6125-0000027FB9E13451.jpg)
(https://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp1/eXraycer/5A8EF231-68DD-4E7F-96B7-7D64FBDC8178-6125-0000027FC6A22372.jpg)
Or this one which I like a bit more but doesn't tie into the cradle....
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/461921.jpg)
I think either of these will be OK on a street car with no cage, any opinions?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on November 09, 2016, 08:33:19 am
Thanks Eddie, yes, it is impressive, not wanting to piss on their fire, but it's a lot of tube work, IE weight, also air Jack turrets, a car like that will weigh in at over 1000 kg, it won't out turn and brake a 700kg car, plus I can't see any uk saloon race series that allow air jacks, again, weight, I get ill with anxiety if I see my race ready weight go over 800kg with me in the seat! That's with liquid cooling, rads, coolers, the lot, I then have to take parts of and throw them away, I don't know why I even have instruments, I never look at them and dream of a flyweight digi dash and minimal thin wall wiring, :D my shocks are over slung on the a arm and tie into the rear cage through the wheel box, the old shock towers are about to get the chop, but hey, off topic, but build em light as possible.  ;)

whahaha he sells a lot off carbon parts too.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: baz on November 09, 2016, 10:16:24 am
(https://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp1/eXraycer/A8CC967A-E699-490D-8543-C149A04EDB11-6125-0000027FB9E13451.jpg)
(https://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp1/eXraycer/5A8EF231-68DD-4E7F-96B7-7D64FBDC8178-6125-0000027FC6A22372.jpg)
Or this one which I like a bit more but doesn't tie into the cradle....
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/461921.jpg)
I think either of these will be OK on a street car with no cage, any opinions?

I like the last one best too, would additional bars connecting to the outer ends of the torsion housing work even better?



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on November 09, 2016, 19:32:16 pm
I think that it needs to tie in with more of the car than what is shown -- -- I battled wheel hop with the oval and it didn't go away until I tied everything in with a RLR 6 point cage which had the down tubes to the frame horns....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 09, 2016, 23:30:49 pm
Where on the frame horns does the rlr cage meet?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on November 09, 2016, 23:46:34 pm
I did this;

 (http://www.vwnorge.no/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17998.0;attach=241851;image)


150mm * 150mm plates over and under parcel tray, and tied to the cage. Solid!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on November 10, 2016, 03:34:53 am
Where on the frame horns does the rlr cage meet?

Where ever you want --- He gives you a plate and a piece of tubing and you can be place it where it works best for you


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 14, 2016, 21:49:19 pm
a few pics stolen from the funkenblitz website. They tie the frame horns to the parcel shelf
(http://www.funkenblitz.com/images/942.jpg)
(http://www.funkenblitz.com/images/939.jpg)
(http://www.funkenblitz.com/images/940.jpg)
(http://www.funkenblitz.com/images/941.jpg)

Maybe a combination of the 2? Tie the body into the parcel tray underside and also triangulate between the shock towers?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on November 14, 2016, 22:12:55 pm
I stole/used that set up when I ran the oval without a cage. It went 12.1 with that set up and never had any wheel hop and the firewall on my oval was never the best in terms of condition  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 14, 2016, 23:25:41 pm
In terms of condition before or after?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on November 14, 2016, 23:46:52 pm
Sorry, meant it was a bit thin/wobbly before. This never got any worse after the above set up was used.

Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: numbnuts on November 15, 2016, 19:04:57 pm
Well it seems like that may be the simplest and lightest solution for someone like myself that doesn't particularly want to run a cage, just to brace from the cradle to the parcel shelf underside only as per the funkenblitz images


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: nicolas on November 20, 2016, 08:44:36 am
Well it seems like that may be the simplest and lightest solution for someone like myself that doesn't particularly want to run a cage, just to brace from the cradle to the parcel shelf underside only as per the funkenblitz images

i have thought about that as well, but i come to the conclusion that if you need that kind of bracing, you need a cage as well.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on November 21, 2016, 18:05:08 pm
Well it seems like that may be the simplest and lightest solution for someone like myself that doesn't particularly want to run a cage, just to brace from the cradle to the parcel shelf underside only as per the funkenblitz images

i have thought about that as well, but i come to the conclusion that if you need that kind of bracing, you need a cage as well.

X2 -- -- If you've got this type of HP to need this, You've got enough HP to really hurt yourself quickly..... and I can name quite a few of our predecessors that can vouch for this by either walking away from a crash or NOT....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 29, 2016, 13:48:44 pm
Its getting harder to find easy places to loose some weight on the car but I have been looking last few days, this was 1st place I thought of, I cut all the holes, then swaged the edge to put the strength back in :) total loss is 1.7lbs, not sure it was worth the effort as I probably ate more than that in xmas cake :D


cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on December 29, 2016, 15:29:32 pm
which does raise a very good point.... this thread seems to miss the driver?

carbon helmet over a heavy one, maybe even 1kg there??!! more like 500grams but still.

also unless your pretty lean, you can loose KG's that way too.

just a thought  ;D (given how much i've eaten over xmas  ::))


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on December 29, 2016, 16:38:28 pm
which does raise a very good point.... this thread seems to miss the driver?

carbon helmet over a heavy one, maybe even 1kg there??!! more like 500grams but still.

also unless your pretty lean, you can loose KG's that way too.

just a thought  ;D (given how much i've eaten over xmas  ::))

I did show scales with and without driver before, I am not a jockey that's for sure and it is a big problem trying to scale a car with a typical weight[170-200lbs] driver and nothing to offset the weight.

Last time I bought a new helmet I compared the carbon version to normal and it really isn't worth it, it was something like less than 1/2lb, real benefit would be in a circuit or rally car were the weight saving helps with fatigue

cheers Richie 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: henk on December 29, 2016, 23:27:45 pm
The first kg's are always the easy one to loose.
But 1kg here 500gr there,... will make some difference in total as well.
And you can always use the seat to take passengers with you,those "drainholes" on the seat base may be handy ;D

Henk!!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on December 30, 2016, 01:01:05 am
Sometimes the extra weight is compensated for by the extra aeros from being, uhhmmmm, "rounded".
 ;D

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: andy198712 on December 30, 2016, 20:07:45 pm
which does raise a very good point.... this thread seems to miss the driver?

carbon helmet over a heavy one, maybe even 1kg there??!! more like 500grams but still.

also unless your pretty lean, you can loose KG's that way too.

just a thought  ;D (given how much i've eaten over xmas  ::))

I did show scales with and without driver before, I am not a jockey that's for sure and it is a big problem trying to scale a car with a typical weight[170-200lbs] driver and nothing to offset the weight.

Last time I bought a new helmet I compared the carbon version to normal and it really isn't worth it, it was something like less than 1/2lb, real benefit would be in a circuit or rally car were the weight saving helps with fatigue

cheers Richie 

even worse would be going through all that trouble to balance your car then loosing loads of weight  ;D

a light helmet is defiantly a nice thing to have from a bike perspective so get what you mean!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: hotstreetvw on January 28, 2017, 17:16:35 pm
Richie, do you not need the two bars that run down to the tunnel at the main hoop?



can you show a picture of how that is done. i am considering a cross member between the shock towers, but this is new to me or is it the downbars from the main hoop that go to the torsion housing insted of the shell near the wheel wells?


 :)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 28, 2017, 20:13:54 pm

Richie, do you not need the two bars that run down to the tunnel at the main hoop?


Nope :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: hotstreetvw on January 28, 2017, 20:35:53 pm
Is that a English/European standard?  Maybe I've read the NHRA rules incorrectly, i think are required for us.  I haven't installed them yet in my new cage.  If I can get away with not, I will leave them out!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: spanners on January 28, 2017, 20:37:57 pm
It can be a headache adding driver weight for corner weighting, not so bad for 9 stoners when i use workshop oil or coolant 20lts tubs, for the monsters i have sand sacks, always being wet and damp kept outside is helpful, odd how the local cats keep pouring gear oil on them tho😆


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on January 28, 2017, 21:22:15 pm
Is that a English/European standard?  Maybe I've read the NHRA rules incorrectly, i think are required for us.  I haven't installed them yet in my new cage.  If I can get away with not, I will leave them out!

The bars to torsion housing do same thing, rules don't say has to go to tunnel do they? that's a lazy way to do it that came from a shop in OC I believe ;) as example what would happen in a front engine type car with replacement aluminium tunnel?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: thehanz DVK on January 31, 2017, 20:46:50 pm
now this is intresting  ;D  like the 10 second tought and the blue bottle....this is a thread to follow....


your thread did move the thought nearer the front of my brain,so you are partly responsible for my actions :D ;D no luxury of a 5 speed here though,I will have to out up with the noise of a short 4th gear :'( ;)

cheers richie


sorry about that... ;D ;D  for me it is the once in a lifetime car with as les limits as possible (for me that is)  , you will go to scc ?? then i drop by for a nitro talk, and a beer


Start to read this thread again......now after 5 years.....my NOS adventure's is gonna start 👍🏼


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 01, 2017, 20:47:20 pm

Start to read this thread again......now after 5 years.....my NOS adventure's is gonna start 👍🏼


Time to go fast ;D 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: hotstreetvw on February 13, 2017, 23:10:30 pm
Thanks Richie.

I thought they were there for lateral support so the main hoop doesn't collapse into a parallelogram.

Is that a English/European standard?  Maybe I've read the NHRA rules incorrectly, i think are required for us.  I haven't installed them yet in my new cage.  If I can get away with not, I will leave them out!

The bars to torsion housing do same thing, rules don't say has to go to tunnel do they? that's a lazy way to do it that came from a shop in OC I believe ;) as example what would happen in a front engine type car with replacement aluminium tunnel?

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on February 14, 2017, 11:07:16 am
Thanks Richie.

I thought they were there for lateral support so the main hoop doesn't collapse into a parallelogram.


If it is built correct I don't think that should happen[if a crash is bad enough to collapse the main hoop those 2 bars to tunnel aren't going to be enough to save you] look at a typical vw chassis, it doesn't have them does it? That's my thinking anyway ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on May 03, 2017, 21:14:00 pm

[/quote]

I got another piece of the puzzle come in the mail today, some IDA pattern jenvey throttle bodies :)
[/quote]

I know this was a while ago but what size bodies are you using Richie

48 or 50

regards Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on May 04, 2017, 21:00:08 pm


I got another piece of the puzzle come in the mail today, some IDA pattern jenvey throttle bodies :)
[/quote]

I know this was a while ago but what size bodies are you using Richie

48 or 50

regards Ron
[/quote]

50s  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on May 04, 2017, 21:10:04 pm
Thanks


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on May 05, 2017, 14:17:36 pm
Thanks Richie.

I thought they were there for lateral support so the main hoop doesn't collapse into a parallelogram.


If it is built correct I don't think that should happen[if a crash is bad enough to collapse the main hoop those 2 bars to tunnel aren't going to be enough to save you] look at a typical vw chassis, it doesn't have them does it? That's my thinking anyway ;)

cheers Richie

Did anybody catch the title of that example -- -- "typical illegal vw chassis"  -- -- with no cross or x bracing you will have a weak structure....


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: dragvw2180 on May 13, 2017, 16:33:37 pm
 That chassis is VERY similar to the chassis I built and was NHRA certed to 8.50 . I added a few more bars than they had but basically very close.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 20, 2017, 16:33:21 pm
With Cal look drags getting close it was time to give 67 a check over and get it ready for some fun 8)  It had a fuel smell for a while and when I checked it I could see a weep from bottom of fuel tank, metal was thin near factory outlet where I welded fitting on so tank out, gave it a quick wash/rinse out and then welder out, tigged it up and added a little material for strength as it was thin around there, fuel system got a clean, and I replaced filters in injectors as a couple of them were a little weaker than other 2.
All back together and runs nice again, was a little fat after injector filter clean so quick adjustment on map to lean it out slightly  :) so now just nitrous system to check over and a road test  :o and that should be it ready to go 8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: gbaker770 on June 22, 2017, 00:39:39 am
The title of this thread is how much to run in the 10's and here's my story so far.
Motor is a used up case, 76 crank, aa stock length rods with arp bolts, 94 mm AA  cast pistons and hyper cylinders, Paradise cam, 044 heads with 44 x 37.5 valves TI retainers, PSI springs, T3/4 turbo from Turbos Direct, and 48 mm Dellorto carb. Type 1 gearbox with a stage 1 and Kennedy 4 puck.
So with my car now in the 6.70's I would think I would be pretty solid in the 10's. This is at 14 psi so I think there's  quite a bit left.
After all of the changes and stuff I've broken I probably have about 10-11k US in the car. Most parts were just used stuff that came with the car, quite a few parts I traded for and some new parts and upgrades that I bought. I'ts been a bit of a journey to get there but it has paid off. I have quite a few people that have really been great along the way. As much as I love driving and racing the car I think its the people that keep me coming back.
I'm going to run it on the 1/4 mile this week or the first time for some testing before Dragnight. I cant call it a 10 second car until I've got a framed timeslip.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 22, 2017, 06:17:12 am


 cant call it a 10 second car until I've got a framed timeslip.



Hi Gavin

good effort there, and nicely done on a small budget :)  as this is the internet you can call it what you want, hey I seen people claim 8 second cars even though it never ever went to track  :o  ;)

But in all seriousness you are right, getting it to live to 1/8th is a lot easier than to 1/4 so good luck getting that ticket, being a turbo car with that 1/8 it should go 10.50s I reckon if gearing is good

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: gbaker770 on June 24, 2017, 13:21:42 pm
Thanks Richie, I'm not that optimistic as far as 10.50's go. We're going to keep the boost where it is and watch the AFR's carefully. I'd be happy if it cracked the 80's or 90's off the trailer.  We're now finally getting it done to the 60'. I put some new Menscer shocks on the car and it is 60'ing in the mid to low 1.40's. Pretty respectable in my eyes for a 1850 lb street car with a stage 1 in it. We're super pleased.
Our fingers are crossed, heading out tomorrow.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: PPRMicke on June 24, 2017, 17:34:32 pm
Is that a English/European standard?  Maybe I've read the NHRA rules incorrectly, i think are required for us.  I haven't installed them yet in my new cage.  If I can get away with not, I will leave them out!
'

NHRA = FIA rules
See the page 7
file:///C:/Users/m/Downloads/fia_drag_racing_-_technical_regulations_and_race_procedures_-_2017%20(1).pdf
Good drawing on the bow see page 30
http://www.sbf.se/globalassets/svenska-bilsportforbundet/regler/dragracing/dr_tekniska_regler-2017.pdf
/// Micke


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on June 24, 2017, 19:12:41 pm
Richie, what are you using for a clutch on this car? I know its much lighter than mine, but I'm just trying to see what others are doing.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 27, 2017, 08:51:12 am
Richie, what are you using for a clutch on this car? I know its much lighter than mine, but I'm just trying to see what others are doing.

Hi Chip,

 I am trying Stage 2 and 4 puck at moment, I did run a stage 1 & 4 puck briefly when I 1st turboed old cab but it wouldn't hold on track as boost came in, just couldn't take the torque I think.
For what you are doing its a really hard task to find a good balance between street manners and track grip, a stage 1 and real black magic is probably best compromise, but it is a compromise.
I would really like to get a double disc made with normal disc material like a super daikin has and see how that worked but not got time at moment

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Fiatdude on June 27, 2017, 14:35:58 pm
I had a Kennedy dual disc in mine and it is not a street setup (stage 1 PP)-- it worked excellently at the track, but it was really difficult to slip in any circumstance for street use.

I'm trying a stage two with a 6 puck with my new engine combo (2332 w/ turbo)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on June 27, 2017, 16:07:19 pm
I've currently got a stage 3 and Diamondback. Its worked pretty well for years, but wouldn't hold last weekend at the track. It would let go once the boost came on as well. Gonna check everything out once i find time to tear it down. Hoping to just find warped pp that can be resurfaced. Its been in service for 5 years now.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: wph on June 27, 2017, 21:14:00 pm
Quote
I would really like to get a double disc made with normal disc material like a super daikin has and see how that worked but not got time at moment

Richie, this has been on my mind too, 7" aluminum Tilton dual hat and two "normal" 180mm discs custom built with clutch management...
Loads of pressure plate springs to choose from in their catalog, might be doable
 
 


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on June 28, 2017, 08:40:28 am
I've currently got a stage 3 and Diamondback. Its worked pretty well for years, but wouldn't hold last weekend at the track. It would let go once the boost came on as well. Gonna check everything out once i find time to tear it down. Hoping to just find warped pp that can be resurfaced. Its been in service for 5 years now.

That is pretty impressive it lasted that long, a new disc and a resurface or replacement cover should work ok again then

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 10:29:53 am
After the street car shoot out cruise Saturday I fitted slicks and stinger and did 4 passes, 1st pass was aborted as nitrous fuel solenoid stuck open flooding engine as soon as I activated it, next pass was a nice straight 10.48@129mph, then I tried bring nitrous in quicker but it just wanted to go up, was fun but not as quick.
Here's one of those passes

Kalle I know you like a street car wheelie ;) enjoy ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1CJHfZJ4GI&feature=share


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 11:03:50 am
10.48@129mph pass :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dj-V1b_KYM


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on July 10, 2017, 11:28:58 am
That's a cool car Ritchie.
 8)

I've changed the colour of the steelies on my car so it doesn't look just like it! Hahaha!

Nice ride.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 11:47:10 am
That's a cool car Ritchie.
 8)

I've changed the colour of the steelies on my car so it doesn't look just like it! Hahaha!

Nice ride.


Thanks mate :)  I can put the gasburners back to save you the problem if you like?  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 11:49:53 am
Last pass, not often you get to leave a black strip S on a drag strip, on a road no problem but this is something not so common :o :D ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4xGP1ooQZM


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: modnrod on July 10, 2017, 12:10:44 pm

Thanks mate :)  I can put the gasburners back to save you the problem if you like?  ;D

Hahaha! Mine's a Super, so people will walk straight past it without noticing anyway!  ;D

Looks like fun at the track.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Jamie on July 10, 2017, 13:19:27 pm
Got a chance to see this in action yesterday, those last 2 runs were mind blowing for a street car!  :o 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Russell on July 10, 2017, 15:26:07 pm
After the street car shoot out cruise Saturday I fitted slicks and stinger and did 4 passes, 1st pass was aborted as nitrous fuel solenoid stuck open flooding engine as soon as I activated it, next pass was a nice straight 10.48@129mph, then I tried bring nitrous in quicker but it just wanted to go up, was fun but not as quick.
Here's one of those passes

Kalle I know you like a street car wheelie ;) enjoy ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1CJHfZJ4GI&feature=share

1st Pass aborted.... sounds so much better when said as was......   Russell beat me off the lights so I gave up as there was no catching him !!!!  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 20:10:40 pm

1st Pass aborted.... sounds so much better when said as was......   Russell beat me off the lights so I gave up as there was no catching him !!!!  ;D

Yes that must have been what it was :D 



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 10, 2017, 20:11:43 pm
Is it the cars I build or the way I drive that makes them do this?  ;) ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: thehanz DVK on July 10, 2017, 20:26:44 pm
Ever seen herbie ?  Must be the car  ::)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 10, 2017, 22:09:43 pm
Jo did comment that you only know how to drive them one way...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Steve D. on July 10, 2017, 23:29:02 pm
Is it the cars I build or the way I drive that makes them do this?  ;) ;D

Anybody care to guess who went to the track with me on this pass?

https://youtu.be/oMKWBsfJv1M?t=36s


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Johnnie on July 10, 2017, 23:38:32 pm
This is brilliant stuff my eyes are sore reading it as I just spotted all this today. What was final cost and spec when finished.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 07:52:28 am
Is it the cars I build or the way I drive that makes them do this?  ;) ;D

Anybody care to guess who went to the track with me on this pass?

https://youtu.be/oMKWBsfJv1M?t=36s

 :D ;D  No comment :o ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 08:04:55 am
This is brilliant stuff my eyes are sore reading it as I just spotted all this today. What was final cost and spec when finished.

Would have cost about £13k, was a bit less as I traded some work for stuff, here's what I wrote at time of running 1st 10s

 


Well done anyway, be nice to know how much the car worked out in the end.




Rough total is £11,430, that is with some wheeling and dealing, bought some stuff, didn't need/use it and sold it on, then selling most of the original car[engine, gearbox &axles, interior, front wing and bonnet, front bumper, wheels, stock disc brake spindles, rear shocks]   that I didn't need.
Also I traded some things for my time, so in reality to actually duplicate it would be nearer £13K maybe just over and that is with the cheaper wheels, another set of wheels with used slicks etc would add to it some more.


cheers Richie





Hope that helps, sorry about your eyesite :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Berger on July 11, 2017, 09:29:43 am
Love this car! That 10,48 pass was clean  :o

If you had to chose between your three race cars, the one most fun to drive, wich one would it be?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 09:54:38 am
Love this car! That 10,48 pass was clean  :o

If you had to chose between your three race  street cars, the one most fun to drive, which one would it be?

That's a hard one, for my favourite I think it has to be the Old cabrio as it has such a special place in my mind having owned it just about 25 years now :o[next month], but on the road this 67 is probably easier to drive, mostly as I worry about it breaking less, and its so simple in comparison to the other 2.
They all provide a different challenge at the track which I enjoy equally so nothing to separate them that way

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 09:56:08 am
Ever seen herbie ?  Must be the car  ::)


So soon we will have a sequel called "Herbie comes to Holland" ?  :o ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 09:56:42 am
Jo did comment that you only know how to drive them one way...

Is there another way then?  :o :D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 09:58:20 am
Tickets, nice 60ft on 2nd one, need to just smooth it out a little and should go 10.30 or even 10.20s as it is, then maybe a bigger nitrous jet 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: mac68 on July 11, 2017, 10:00:25 am
Hey ritchie! Is it still a mag case?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 10:00:47 am
Hey ritchie! Is it still a mag case?

Yes :)


Title: Re:
Post by: zerocool on July 11, 2017, 10:06:42 am
Seeing the car in the flesh really shows how easy you make a 10 look. Open the bottle run a 10 and pop to tesco for the weekly. Really looks effortless and we all know it's the opposite. Ace work Richie.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 11, 2017, 10:22:23 am
Nice work Richie,
At almost 130mph 3rd and 4th are obviously tall gears, how do your 1st and second compare to a normally aspirated close ratio box? I guess what I'm asking is could you just change 3rd and 4th to run nitrous?
Lee


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 10:31:10 am
Nice work Richie,
At almost 130mph 3rd and 4th are obviously tall gears, how do your 1st and second compare to a normally aspirated close ratio box? I guess what I'm asking is could you just change 3rd and 4th to run nitrous?
Lee

Thanks :)

It will go about 135mph crossing line with shift light on so got a little left still, yes in theory you can, depends on how short your 2nd gear is though ? don't want gap to be to big a drop in rpm when shift to 3rd, the torque of the gas will pull a taller gear no problem but still need to keep it on cam/in power band of engine in N/A form.

cheers Richie


Title: Re:
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 10:33:42 am
Seeing the car in the flesh really shows how easy you make a 10 look. Open the bottle run a 10 and pop to tesco for the weekly. Really looks effortless and we all know it's the opposite. Ace work Richie.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk



 ;D Thanks.

 I am making a lightweight muffler at moment for it to replace stinger, then I will try it on DOT treads, if that works it really will be just open bottle and go 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on July 11, 2017, 10:36:01 am
Nice work Richie,
At almost 130mph 3rd and 4th are obviously tall gears, how do your 1st and second compare to a normally aspirated close ratio box? I guess what I'm asking is could you just change 3rd and 4th to run nitrous?
Lee

Thanks :)

It will go about 135mph crossing line with shift light on so got a little left still, yes in theory you can, depends on how short your 2nd gear is though ? don't want gap to be to big a drop in rpm when shift to 3rd, the torque of the gas will pull a taller gear no problem but still need to keep it on cam/in power band of engine in N/A form.

cheers Richie

Will look up my current ratios. That box will end up in the notch but will possibly go for a refresh/ratio change as well. Sorry I couldn't make the weekend, house project and working all weekend made it impossible


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Eddie DVK on July 11, 2017, 12:20:32 pm
Ever seen herbie ?  Must be the car  ::)


So soon we will have a sequel called "Herbie comes to Holland" ?  :o ;)

Ok please tell me more  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Johnnie on July 11, 2017, 13:25:10 pm
Well done it go's to show what someone that knows what there doing can achieve on a small budget with a street car build.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 11, 2017, 18:14:15 pm
Well done it go's to show what someone that knows what there doing can achieve on a small budget with a street car build.


Thanks, it was fun to do :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: gbaker770 on August 20, 2017, 16:50:13 pm


 cant call it a 10 second car until I've got a framed timeslip.



Hi Gavin

good effort there, and nicely done on a small budget :)  as this is the internet you can call it what you want, hey I seen people claim 8 second cars even though it never ever went to track  :o  ;)

But in all seriousness you are right, getting it to live to 1/8th is a lot easier than to 1/4 so good luck getting that ticket, being a turbo car with that 1/8 it should go 10.50s I reckon if gearing is good

cheers Richie

Well, I got my 10 second pass last weekend but I was warned after my first 1/8 mile shutoff that they would show me the gate with an uncerted car.
Second pass I shut it off at about 850' and here was the result.

[attachment=1]


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 20, 2017, 17:51:48 pm

Well, I got my 10 second pass last weekend but I was warned after my first 1/8 mile shutoff that they would show me the gate with an uncerted car.
Second pass I shut it off at about 850' and here was the result.



 :D   Good effort 8)   I think I was pretty close with my 10.50s prediction if you run it all way out ;)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on August 20, 2017, 20:37:34 pm
Why do you need a cert to run in the 10's? Or are you knocking on the 1/8th mile cut off numbers? I don't know what those are, I don't speak 1/8th mile yet. Nice job either way though. Still waiting for my day to come.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: gbaker770 on August 20, 2017, 22:20:42 pm
Gainesville is one of only two tracks that the NHRA owns. The tech guy is the same guy who carts the chassis in our area and he told me there was no way my chassis would cert. I knew that and thats why I had current belts and safety gear. I even brought my arm restraints form when I had the dragster in case they didn't like the ragtop.
It's time to put a legit 8.50 cage in it and run it on. The big track with the boost turned up.
This is till at 14 psi.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 20, 2017, 23:10:47 pm
Gavin, when you say chassis do you mean cage? its a pan car still isn't it?

Chip, I am guessing that ragtop is classed same as cabrio and you need a full cage at 13.99 I think it is

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: gbaker770 on August 20, 2017, 23:17:57 pm
Yes Sir, cage is what I was referring to. It is a pan car. Thanks for the compliments Richie, Its been a long road te get a driveable 10 second street car and I honestly drive this thing 3-4 times a week.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on August 21, 2017, 14:19:04 pm
Gavin, when you say chassis do you mean cage? its a pan car still isn't it?

Chip, I am guessing that ragtop is classed same as cabrio and you need a full cage at 13.99 I think it is

cheers Richie
Good point on the roof, never considered that a ragtop put you into the same category as a cabrio, but i could see a tech guy going that route i suppose.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: bugnick on September 06, 2017, 14:13:23 pm
Richie, Is it possible to keep the competition eliminator heads cool enough on the street at 200-300 mile highway trips at 60-70 mph? I saw that you used type 3 tin under the cilinders. Did you modify anything to the tin or is it just stock? Good luck at dragweek!!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on September 09, 2017, 14:45:15 pm
Richie, Is it possible to keep the competition eliminator heads cool enough on the street at 200-300 mile highway trips at 60-70 mph? I saw that you used type 3 tin under the cilinders. Did you modify anything to the tin or is it just stock? Good luck at dragweek!!

Hi Nick,

good to see you on here :) Thanks ;D

They are just about ok for that, depending on gearing you can increase fan speed if needed with a pulley swap to the 912 top pulley which helps, and there are a few other things you can do to increase cooling surface area if needed.
I did a couple of things to the type 3 tin, but just to make them fit better and clear the bigger pushrod tubes

cheers Richie


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: bugnick on September 09, 2017, 15:07:36 pm

Hi Nick,

good to see you on here :) Thanks ;D

They are just about ok for that, depending on gearing you can increase fan speed if needed with a pulley swap to the 912 top pulley which helps, and there are a few other things you can do to increase cooling surface area if needed.
I did a couple of things to the type 3 tin, but just to make them fit better and clear the bigger pushrod tubes

cheers Richie

Thanks a lot Richie! Good to know! Cheers, Nick.


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 03, 2018, 21:43:06 pm
Little tidy up while engine was out  :)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BeetleBug on July 04, 2018, 12:24:41 pm
Holy Shit Richie... since when did you start to care about the looks? That engine is a looking the business for shure.

Take care!

Best rgs
Kalle


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Rocket Ron on July 04, 2018, 18:52:04 pm
Hi Richie

Engine is looking sweet, are you running short manifolds or is it the throttle bodies that make it look squat

Regards Ron


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 04, 2018, 18:59:15 pm
Holy Shit Richie... since when did you start to care about the looks? That engine is a looking the business for shure.

Take care!

Best rgs
Kalle


  ;D   When I put it together I just used what I had to get it finished and on road but even then intended tidying it up when I got a chance, plan was to do it when it broke but it didn't happen :o so never got done, as I had to take it out now after a little on road incident to check for other damage I thought I would treat it :o ;D  It will probably break now wont it ::) :D

cheers Richie     


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 04, 2018, 19:01:00 pm
Hi Richie

Engine is looking sweet, are you running short manifolds or is it the throttle bodies that make it look squat

Regards Ron

Thanks :)

Comp elim manifolds are quite short compared to typical vw head manifolds and throttle bodies are shorter than IDAs I think


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: DaveN on July 05, 2018, 13:59:27 pm
Are you taking the car out this year?


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 06, 2018, 17:52:33 pm
Are you taking the car out this year?

Yep, maybe do the No prep at Rockingham august bank holiday, if not that then just a RWYB I think, want to try a couple of things and see if it will go quicker with what I got in it already ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: DaveN on July 07, 2018, 09:24:22 am
It will be good to see how much further it can get into the 10s


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 08, 2018, 19:57:34 pm
It will be good to see how much further it can get into the 10s

Am sure once it cools down a bit and air is better it will run quicker than the 10.40s it has managed so far with a little tuning etc 8)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: BossHogg76 on July 17, 2018, 21:12:04 pm
Richie that looks awesome,...great show car  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Black_65 on July 29, 2018, 18:25:13 pm
It will be good to see how much further it can get into the 10s

Am sure once it cools down a bit and air is better it will run quicker than the 10.40s it has managed so far with a little tuning etc 8)

Street car is quicker than my race car haha  :o.

Very cool richie 👍


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on July 29, 2018, 19:17:26 pm
It will be good to see how much further it can get into the 10s

Am sure once it cools down a bit and air is better it will run quicker than the 10.40s it has managed so far with a little tuning etc 8)

Street car is quicker than my race car haha  :o.

Very cool richie 👍

Richie's street cars are all quicker than a lot of race cars! Quite depressing to think of this as the slowest of his three...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on July 29, 2018, 20:53:19 pm
It will be good to see how much further it can get into the 10s

Am sure once it cools down a bit and air is better it will run quicker than the 10.40s it has managed so far with a little tuning etc 8)

Street car is quicker than my race car haha  :o.

Very cool richie 👍

Richie's street cars are all quicker than a lot of race cars! Quite depressing to think of this as the slowest of his three...

Maybe time to take my daily to a rwyb then :o :D ;D :-*


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on August 23, 2020, 20:34:18 pm
5 years ago already since it ran that 1st 10 on 1st pass with nitrous on, need to get it back out and see how low 10s it will go ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmlN1Tom2g


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on August 23, 2020, 23:56:51 pm
Ooh, this should be good! I do like this car!


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: MegaRookie on August 24, 2020, 10:35:21 am
I guess some carbon fiber will help too, and will be a nice contrast with the white it is now.  ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 21, 2020, 17:01:01 pm
I guess some carbon fiber will help too, and will be a nice contrast with the white it is now.  ;D

Been adding some parts as i go along, fitted 1st rear wing up today, covers a 8 1/2 inch slick nicely ;D


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: brewsy on November 22, 2020, 22:03:21 pm
5 years ago already since it ran that 1st 10 on 1st pass with nitrous on, need to get it back out and see how low 10s it will go ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmlN1Tom2g

Hey Richie,
May I ask what torsion bars and shocks you're running there?
Seemed like very little camber change when you hit it. Do you limit travel or is t just stiff as f....??

Ta,
Marc


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: richie on November 22, 2020, 22:09:35 pm
5 years ago already since it ran that 1st 10 on 1st pass with nitrous on, need to get it back out and see how low 10s it will go ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmlN1Tom2g

Hey Richie,
May I ask what torsion bars and shocks you're running there?
Seemed like very little camber change when you hit it. Do you limit travel or is t just stiff as f....??

Ta,
Marc

its IRS so very little camber change anyway, would need to check but 27mm or 28mm torsion and QA1 shocks


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: brewsy on November 24, 2020, 09:08:17 am
its IRS so very little camber change anyway, would need to check but 27mm or 28mm torsion and QA1 shocks

Ahhh, that'll be why then..
Thought you'd managed some awesome combo of torsion, Z and shocks  ;)


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Neil Davies on September 25, 2021, 19:20:04 pm
Holy thread revival, Batman!
Just been looking at the photos on Eurodragster from Friday's RWYB attention Pod and saw a certain white 67 with lots of carbon bits with the front wheels so high up in the air! Didn't look to be a naturally aspirated exhaust any more...


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: leec on September 25, 2021, 23:17:06 pm
Just seen the pic  :o



Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Chip on September 27, 2021, 20:39:58 pm
Holy thread revival, Batman!
Just been looking at the photos on Eurodragster from Friday's RWYB attention Pod and saw a certain white 67 with lots of carbon bits with the front wheels so high up in the air! Didn't look to be a naturally aspirated exhaust any more...
Just looked that photo up!  :o


Title: Re: How much money to run 10s in a street car?
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on September 27, 2021, 21:58:52 pm
Sure looked like a CB style turbo placement  ;D