The Cal-look Lounge

As i have no fb acount and no feel to do so i am worried about the vw forum
Like cal look
I see that there is less movement on the forums and its  bleeding to dead
In my opinion .
I asked a few times to reactivate my topic and as had no reaction on this
Other then there was no time for it .
In other words i can question myself if this forum is wanted to be alive or let it bleed to dead
I go here every day after work and must say i had a great time
But a fact is there is not much race  tracks and the cost are large to go racing
Lots of raindowns and the organisations are loosing money to
We are stepping in a new era i think
I wil go on do my own thing and wil see where this wil end
Just some thoughts .

Gr henri

Henri, if it was as easy as "reactivating" your topic it would have been done a long time ago. I have not been able to find out the bug behind your topic. It might be quicker to start a new one I am afraid :-( I wish I had other news.
On the other topic, I think you are right about facebook stealing a lot of peoples time, including myself. All forums are used less, but even though they are not peaking anymore they are still used. It is up to all of us to continue to do so to keep them alive. I see the exact same on other forums.

This has been discussed before: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,23787.0.html

The Lounge stats:

May 2016; 101 new topics and 892 new posts.
May 2015; 106 new topics and 906 new posts.
May 2014; 133 new topics and 1021 new posts.
May 2013; 200 new topics and 1762 new posts.
May 2012; 411 new topics and 2654 new posts.

-BB-

Don't think things are better on fb. That's true there is more activity there, but the content is far less interesting (or totally useless the rest of the time). If you are looking for technical infos or mechanical help on fb, you will most likely get nothing or have scarce informations spread over lots of groups and pages... ...that you will never find again anyway because of the timeline layout that makes it impossible to have archives.

If you are looking for a dose of daily pictures and news then fb might be what you are looking for. But if you need to dig more into a topic or to have solid infos you will be deceived by it.

Totally agree!

People are not on FB to find tech info or get mechanical help! People are there to brag and to get updates. If you think The Lounge can survive on tech info and info from mechanical nut heads then think again. The Lounge is NOTHING without the stories, the cruise pictures, the event pictures, the race reports, the DKP guys, the old heroes and the new heroes.

I was forced to enter the FB world since my work was the first company to start using FB@work in Norway. I hate it but the truth is that there is not any option. If the rest of the world, all your friends, all your colleagues, all your kids, all your relatives - EVERYONE is there you do not have a choice. As simple as that. The Lounge is dying, our Norwegian forum is dead and other forums is suffering. It is all because our ways of communicating is changing, like it or not!

#BeetleBug#

Dead to you perhaps but not the other 200-300 users pr day that posts new posts and threads.
Reduced, yes. Communication is changing, yes. Dead, no.

as much as i have to agree with the way we communicate is indeed changing, i do have a practical inability of FB. it is not a book… it goes to quick, too much is said unchecked, unread, just posted to have it said out loud.
a forum is more like a book as a topic is started and much more condensed and less cluttered with all the other info woven in between posts. so that means to me that a more technical question or a more specific topic has a chance to be noticed, read and answered, not just liked.
also you can go back and do a decent search. prime examples are found right here, topics that have been 'dead' for years are revived, reviewed, rewritten.
as much as i am missing out on what is hot right now, as much as i am missing inspiration from random pictures and 'sightings' for not being on FB, i do get my kicks just browsing through older posts.
how many miss the old callook forum (american one or the lounge) just to re-read the stories of what happened at Carlsbad raceway or what brew in OC? or here, take a look at the heydays of this forum some 5 years ago. info, stories, news, never been seen pictures, enthusiasm was buzzing and cars popped out of garages like popcorn in a cinema.

the reality is probaly not as black and white as i post it here, but think about it and it really makes sense.

And that's why places like The Lounge to get tech and mechanical infos and help still have a place. That's basically all the content that's left here since the last couple of years, and so far, so good. Fb is something totally different that for some might replace forums, but for hundreds of users who still come here everyday brings something different. Again try to find something on fb and good luck with that, you are flooded with uninteresting facts about people's personal lives, what's trendy what's hype, what's whatever, too much stuff no one really cares about...

Ask for some help on The Lounge and you can be sure you'll get replies and infos within the day. Ask on fb you will have replies only if someone sees it on the moment you post it, since within a few mintutes it will be burried under tons of random other uninteresting posts... unless everyone would be 24/7 online (well that's what people at fb are probably dreaming of  ::) but as far as I'm concerned I have better things to do than staying online all day long).

And no one is pointing a gun at people and telling them to be on fb, if one doesn't want it then they just choose not to use it. If someone uses fb it's only because they have chosen to use it. It's as simple as that too. The Lounge is dead only for those who decide it is.

Maybe stats without For sale adds would show truer reflection of what is happening? or not happening ;)   

Also looking at the majority of posts recently I think a technical section on here could really help, most of subjects don't fit section they are posted in  ::)  But some of them don't fit any section really and technical section would fill this gap and also allow for them topics to stay easily searchable

cheers Richie

Thats about a twenty second job so that can easily be done

Ok cool, going to make tea, and it will be done by time I am back?  ;D

It could be, but we are at the dyno today so I will prioritize that :-)
But come with a suggestion to what/where :-)

allright! i have a tea ready and an ice cream. so that way we have a technical section AND an update on your dyno day! hope all goes well with the testing.

So do I :-)
This is the DKL car in question, with a new built engine. Aiming for 400+ whp
Owner is Svein Ove (SOA)

Cool hope its going well on dyno, interesting set up 8)

I think a complete new section between cal look and pure racing

Technical section:

[ For any questions or How to info of a technical nature about aircooled style VWs ]   or something like that ;)

Would a technical section split into sub sections make it easier or too complicated ?

I was thinking of sections such as :

Engine & gearbox
Brakes, wheels & suspension
Electrical
Body & interior

Trond - is that a twin chargecooler setup ?

Thanks
Darren

ps. I'm on another forum too for my 'other' car. I don't know the member numbers but there can be up to 200 posts a day sometimes. That includes pictures, build threads, for sales etc but also car insurance, traders index, general chatter (EU, science etc). It certainly hasn't slowed down in the couple of years I've been on there.

Just had a look at the other forum stats -

Threads: 202,411, Posts: 2,129,391, Members: 62,852, Active Members: 2,955
Currently active users: 245

They are a bit stricter than here - 50 posts before you can sell anything. 10 posts before you can PM.
I guess this encourages people to write but there is also a section called 'spamming for 50' where people are named and shamed.

Thanks
Darren

That's really good idea, amount of people that just use site to try sell parts etc is disappointing to say the least

Yes it is :-)
We didn't end up no the dyno yesterday as we were struggling with the hydraulic clutch system and some other things. We will try again on the weekend two weeks from now.

I think I want to keep the setup for a technical section rather simple. I don't think we need to get to specifics and split between brakes, wheels and engine parts. Thoughts anyone?

keep it simple, too many sections means too much back and forth clicking for a relatively small number of topics

I would do:

Cal-look
Pure racing
Technical stuff
Top Racers list (or move it under Pure racing(?))
In Da Werks

Yep I agree, for me nothing else needs to change, just ad a technical section after Pure racing, I see a new question on Cal look about flywheel depth, this sort of thing is exactly what I am talking about, it has no place it fits at moment and maybe useful info for others in future, in tech section should be easier to find :)

cheers Richie

Facebook is a time suck. I'm on FB Hiatus since December. When my birthday came around, my wife asked me to go on to reply to my birthday wishes which I did. I really don't miss it.


On another note. I usually use Show all topics since last visit or show all unread topics when I browse The Lounge. Keeps down on topic jumping.

A technical section is now added. Thanks for pointing it out, it has really been missing.

Thanks Trond 8)  just have to encourage people to use it now ;)

Thanks for the new addition Trond. I had to look twice at the main page as it looked different :)

What are peoples thoughts on a minimum post count before they can sell ?

I have mixed feelings about it as I've seen it in action on another site. It would obviously stop people just joining, selling one item then never using the forum again. Thankfully these one time sellers seem reputable as rarely do I read about a bad transaction. It happens a few times on the other site which is why the minimum 50 post rule was introduced.

It would encourage more participation if someone's only goal was to sell but the post count can be increased by reply's such as excellent/cool/I like this etc which to me, bring nothing to topic/discussion. Show a build, ask a question, bring something to the table, not just a throw away comment.

Most sellers here are repeat sellers that have a reputation or are known by others, would you buy something expensive from someone's first post ?

How about a 10 post minimum ?
Can the site software even handle stopping someone posting in a section until they are activated ?

Must have been the strong coffee I had earlier, I'm feeling all draconian  ;D

Darren

If it was needed I think a time limit would work better than post count, can't sell until been a member for 6 months say, then the 1 post to sell members wouldn't bother as they wont wait  6 months to sell something

cheers Richie

Limiting the number of sale threads to 10 a month per user name would stop some users pushing others threads down the For sale page like they do currently.

With the sales adverts, wouldn't it be better to have each user's items merged into one thread? Richie does tend to do this, as do quite a few others. That would give 25 or so user's the chance to get their lists on the first page of the  for sale area. I wouldn't do it for the wanted ads though.

Okay here are my two cents to the whole FB/forums dying/WTF is happening.

Firstly I think FB and most other "Social Media" have been the worst thing to mankind as the good aspects (i.e. it's easy for me to contact my friends and other people I know) far outweigh the bad aspects (i.e. they give every cunt the opportunity to air their views).
Personally I still have a look here every two days or so, just to see if there's any topic that interests me. Saying that, I've never posted or commented much in the whole 10 years I've been here. It's just not my thing to comment on every topic/thread. I have my own opinions though. I much rather keep myself to myself, have my own goals and stick to them. I get things done in my own time and don't really need to get other people's approval or a pad on the shoulder.
I read, talk and listen to people who I think actually know what they talk about through their own experiences and have results to show for. The internet has far too much bad info from keyboard warriors/heros/achievers.
I've had time out with my car and are now back into it again with even more enthusiasm only limiting my exploits due to the lack of funding to jump bigger hoops. (But there's still more room for improvements by fine tuning all sorts of aspects of my car and myself).
And I thing that's a big reason for the decline of the amount of posts on here too. A large amount of members have been on here for many years, predominantly from young age. So everybody has grown up (with their cars and the lounge), priorities change with work, families, houses etc, but most are still here and keep coming back. That's just life.
FB has drawn a lot of people (with short attention span and need for quick useless information fixes) away.

With regards to the lounge layout and sections.
Thanks for adding the new technical section. I think it's a really good idea and will probably be the most read section in the near future full stop. That's what a forum is all about (or at least in my opinion should be about).

Before I write the next few sentences I'd like to check something with the administrators first. Is is not correct that ALL the contents of the forum has to be stored on some form of hard drive in order to be available to access and not be wiped off? Is it not correct that because there was/is so much info etc. on here, a larger server had to be bought (or the memory space somewhere else externally)some years ago which is when you did the sponsorship T-Shirts and donations? Otherwise there'd be no more room for people to post.
The for sale section on here has quite frankly pissed me of for a long long time now. Some people have clearly joint just to sell stuff on here, looking at their post history have either never posted anything else of any informative value or even a productive comment.
And yes I'm going to mention YOUR NAMES Restojohnny, UltraOrange67-2443, SEBB and others. Why do you people have to post one advert for every single wiper switch knob and what ever else the fuck you're selling, adding page upon page to the section to the point where it's near impossible to scan it and find something you may be interested in and use up memory space? Since you are obviously running a business from selling parts or trying to make a good little money on the side, have you thought of donating money towards the upkeep of the lounge?
I would suggest to change it to one ad per month per member. If you want to run a larger ad, pay for it or go to ebay etc. I've put a for sale ad up only a few weeks ago, the first in maybe a year, I have no idea what page it is on now and doubt anybody who would look for what I had for sale has any chance of finding it unless they know exactly what to search for.

I don't care if I've tread on anybody's toes, fact is I've been hacked of by many unreasonable people recently, especially in the last few days. And here's proof I'm actually doing what I'm talking about and am achiving.
Happy Racing everybody
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Thanks for adding the Tech section Trond :)

No problem :-)

Even though stats seems to show, on a chosen month, that we see a downfall in activity let's not forget that if we look at page views for the same month used in this thread we see the following:

Pageviews
May 2016: 782605
May 2015: 766036
May 2014: 523412
May 2013: 709076

Most online
May 2016: 247
May 2015: 165
May 2014: 155
May 2013: 165


We can obviously pick and choose which month to view and thereby get a certain message across, but I think it is important to respect that we still have a lot of people accessing and reading this forum. A positive trend actually.
A new tech section is good. I also think/hope that supporting easier uploading of images from cell phones and pc's of larger size etc. will contribute to making it easier for people to post/share as obviously happens on facebook.
Although we will never try to compete, I still hope people see the value of storing images/stories/technical on something that is easy to find even when 5 minutes have passed.

That must be the best spent two cents ever! Thank you for your great write-up mister!

Enjoy the racing and the rest of the summer. I heard that you are unfortunately not coming to SCC this year but hopefully someone will post some updates during the event here on The Lounge like we did in the good old days  :)

-BB-

Yes you are correct. And yes people have been told directly on numerous occasions to collect sales ads together(in one, or with items sensibly grouped together).
I have failed to follow that up good enough and it seems it has become worse yet again.

In general we don't want people to stop selling items on The Cal-look Lounge, as buying and selling parts is part of our hobby and and a good way of finding what we need or getting rid of something. Of course we don't want to see a VW Golf or a Ipad advertised here, but we don't evaluate if a knob, a mirror or an engine part is more, or less important than another part.

We are not running this forum to earn money, but of course the donations we do get it much appreciated. It is not much throughout a year, maby a handful of small donations usually from the same peope. But we appreciate it equally every time.
As you all have probably noticed we do currently have one advertiser at the top right corner and used to have another before. These people are doing business in a good way and want to pitch in for advertising their products and services. This is how people that run a business should do it.
An alternative would be to ad google ads or something, but I am not sure it would create more revenue than irritation among the users?

Anyways, some pm's will be sent out and perhaps it is time to create some rules for the sales section to make it more visible.

Some stats from right now at 15.09 UK time 7/7/2016  in For sale ;)

30 For sale topics inc the T shirt add up top

Those 30 are from 13 different users including one who signed up seemingly just to post a for sale advert, one person has 6 single adds, another 7 single adds so possibly 17 other people got bumped off the page.
Seems simple to me, one warning then if they don't get it ban them from for sale section  ::) 

cheers Richie

It's alteady done.
I am just not "american" of me. I ask first, shoot later instead of the opposite.
All are agreement with me so will look better moving forward

Even with a more organized sales section, there is more to it. We still need people to participate and share. The sales section is not "the problem" :-)

Agreed but I can also see people getting pissed off by it if there one advert just gets bumped off all the time and not bothering to post at all, not everyone is as calm and relaxed as you Trond  ;) 

cheers Richie

I think people who are here only to sell parts still won't participate more to the other sections of the forum, but at least other members who are trying to sell won't have their ads pushed on page 2 or 3 after a couple of days only.

Exactly :-)

Very interesting topic, great post Frank

I feel sorry for the people who's ads are pushed down the list, what about 2 for sale sections 1) formin 3 adverts and 2) over 3, and charge per advert

and what about all adverts removed after 28 days, regardless, they can repost if not sold and pay again if required.

Russell

Thanks for all your work running the Lounge Trond and taking action with this.
I totally agree that the sales section is not the problem. The main problem are unreasonable and greedy people who have no real interest in the hobby, this particular and probably any other VW related forums either. We all know Resto Johnny has the same ads on the Samba and some other "members" from the lounge probably do too. And how much do they contribute to topics on that forum? I'd guess fuck all.
And yes I'm put off by putting my couple of ads up because of being bumped down within a couple of days. I only ever post ads for things which I consider are relevant to this forum. My last ad was for a set of aluminium door panels (which are still for sale by the way) as there are many people on here building race cars.
I'd rather see items of quality advertised on the lounge than quantity. If I want that, I'd go on ebay.

I agree with Russell. Maybe remove all ads after 30 days or so. It works with Craigs List, gumtree and I've been on other forums which do it.

Frank