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Cal-look/High Performance => Pure racing => Topic started by: Jim Ratto on March 20, 2009, 21:19:47 pm



Title: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jim Ratto on March 20, 2009, 21:19:47 pm
Has it been done?

ok 98 octane....

has it been done in a regular street use motor?

Please.... no "define a street motor/car bullshit."


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: JS on March 20, 2009, 21:46:06 pm
Theres a few engines in Sweden with JPM heads. Some even with Mikuni carbs. Some of these engines exceed the 100hp/litre mark if Im not mistaken.
But Im not sure wich one of them is running E85 and regular gas though.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: BeetleBug on March 20, 2009, 22:00:19 pm
Has it been done?

ok 98 octane....

has it been done in a regular street use motor?

Please.... no "define a street motor/car bullshit."

Did you sleep through the mouse engine thread? Once a old guy told me that a proper built aircooled vw engine should always reach 100hp pr liter and I totally agree.

And

What is street fuel? Here in Northern Europe we have E85 everywhere and it is cheap. 100 octane is available from Shell gas stations.

Wait.. I get. It is Friday and you`re borred at work right?  :)


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jim Ratto on March 20, 2009, 22:14:50 pm
Has it been done?

ok 98 octane....

has it been done in a regular street use motor?

Please.... no "define a street motor/car bullshit."

Did you sleep through the mouse engine thread? Once a old guy told me that a proper built aircooled vw engine should always reach 100hp pr liter and I totally agree.

And

What is street fuel? Here in Northern Europe we have E85 everywhere and it is cheap. 100 octane is available from Shell gas stations.

Wait.. I get. It is Friday and you`re borred at work right?  :)

I read it.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Zach Gomulka on March 20, 2009, 22:32:08 pm
I hope to achieve that goal with my '67 (228hp 2276cc), but that project is a looonng ways off.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Martin on March 21, 2009, 00:13:54 am
I got over 320 from my 2953 N/A motor 98 octain fuel



Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jon on March 21, 2009, 01:00:18 am
It's been done... on over the counter parts


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: bilboa2 on March 21, 2009, 02:48:27 am
I think alot of "it" depends on dyno operator / real readings vs FLASH readings?? no adding o.c factor,etc. Ok,now from the squishy people?? 


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: viNce on March 21, 2009, 09:17:51 am
Eric Bertrand near Paris 1914 engine, pump gas E85, reworked 044 Wedge port 44 x 37.5 , web cam 86c , 9.2/1, 48 ida, 1-3/4 header

(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4532/mg8985vn0.jpg)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2315/ericbertrandab0.jpg)


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: 58vw on March 21, 2009, 17:58:52 pm
how about per cylinder ;D


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Airspeed on March 21, 2009, 21:45:11 pm
Eric Bertrand near Paris 1914 engine, pump gas E85, reworked 044 Wedge port 44 x 37.5 , web cam 86c , 9.2/1, 48 ida, 1-3/4 header

(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4532/mg8985vn0.jpg)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2315/ericbertrandab0.jpg)
Very cool! Total respect for that accomplishment. Especially at that low rpm.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: j-f on March 22, 2009, 19:05:13 pm
You can follow this old recipe.  :)

150 hp out of a 1500  :o


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Zach Gomulka on March 22, 2009, 19:13:24 pm
Gotta be a massive correction factor to get those numbers from a 1500!!!


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: JS on March 22, 2009, 20:54:02 pm
Why?


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: BeetleBug on March 22, 2009, 21:27:32 pm
Ups.. the author is giving away the secret......


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: 67worshipper on March 22, 2009, 23:09:12 pm
Eric Bertrand near Paris 1914 engine, pump gas E85, reworked 044 Wedge port 44 x 37.5 , web cam 86c , 9.2/1, 48 ida, 1-3/4 header

(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4532/mg8985vn0.jpg)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2315/ericbertrandab0.jpg)
this is quality.fairplay to the builder.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: bilboa2 on March 23, 2009, 02:40:20 am
1500 150hp 12.0 compression.. 98 octane,,,? ? goal still possible..but?? the 1914 in paris with 204 hp , is there a metric thing going on here?. great hp figures..rwhp comparison.??hard to read print..pump gas will always be a question within itself, overheating,pinging, etc...e85 is not pump gas in comparison, yes, it is an advantage, wise move if it easily available  for your driving habits.?? bill scwimmers car with 2276and a 12.48 with a heavy car, THAT is the closest comaprison i have heard, give credit to denahm heads.do not know compression ratio, but web86c , i think, bill? bergs had a chart in back of shop that said wt,hp = e.t.. it was conservitive as bergs are.
=


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: j-f on March 23, 2009, 07:29:59 am
1500 150hp 12.0 compression.. 98 octane,,,? ?


It is an old book, so gas was different back then. They can run high CR with less problems of pinging. And as it was already said here, this kind of little screamer engines from back in the days were grenade engine. Who will run IDA's on a 1500cc now?


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: WCB Hitler's Hot Rod on March 23, 2009, 08:06:08 am
Ok,now from the squishy people?? 
OMG he said the s word! :o ::) :)


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: nicolas on March 23, 2009, 08:08:55 am
it can be done, but then again is that an engine that pulls from 1500 rpm to 5000 (normal and spirited street use) or from 6000 to 8000 rpms (very spirited street use). not to start any controversy here, but yes it can be done, but what is sacraficed to get it?



Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Bruce on March 23, 2009, 08:22:40 am
.... bill schwimmers car.....do not know compression ratio, but web86c , i think, bill?
8.6:1


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Trond Dahl on March 23, 2009, 09:35:23 am
I read it.

But?


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jon on March 23, 2009, 09:41:08 am
Of course there is that 1915 in Sweden used as a commuter car during summers, delivers 245 hp on the crank. Back when HP was somewhat lower the engine did a 12.76 in a full weight 1303 Super.

(http://www.jpmotorsport.se/bilder/gatbil/3.jpg)


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: richie on March 23, 2009, 16:09:13 pm
e85 is not pump gas in comparison, yes, it is an advantage, wise move if it easily available  .
=

Why not pump gas? its easily available over most of europe and mid west and east coast of USa at the PUMP,yes regular gas stations all over carry it,so again,why isnt it pump?



cheers richie


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Trond Dahl on March 23, 2009, 16:11:30 pm
Perhaps EFI dosnt count either because its new technology(potential advantage)...
:-D


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jim Ratto on March 23, 2009, 16:41:04 pm

Nice achievement.


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: nicolas on March 23, 2009, 21:19:40 pm
Of course there is that 1915 in Sweden used as a commuter car during summers, delivers 245 hp on the crank. Back when HP was somewhat lower the engine did a 12.76 in a full weight 1303 Super.

(http://www.jpmotorsport.se/bilder/gatbil/3.jpg)

tell me more about it please.

 ;D


Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: ESH on March 23, 2009, 21:50:31 pm
... tell me more about it please ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/SanchoPancho/Scandinavian%20Cal%20Look%20Classic%202006/SCC206MS51.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/SanchoPancho/Scandinavian%20Cal%20Look%20Classic%202006/SCC2006MS005.jpg)




Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: Jim Ratto on March 23, 2009, 23:17:07 pm

Trond, sorry for the clipped response. the 1600 Johannes created is probably one of the most impressive VW engines that I have seen built up, really. The amount of thought and effort that went into that engine demands repsect. I wish I, myself, was behind building something of that nature. The closest I got was 213 hp from a 2276.
I don't mean to bring up a topic that has already been discussed.... I think the scene needs to keep an eye on engines that can squeeze 100hp/liter.


In all seriousness, even @ 85hp/liter... this level of tune will make for an amazing (to drive), responsive engine that can live on the street.
We are truly the miracle workers of the hot rod world.... taking a design that is now closing in on 80 years old, originally designed to be the lowest level of industrial transportation, making 23hp/liter..... to this now. And such a mass following that have done so much withthe same basic design.
IS the VW engine the greatest engine design ever?



Title: Re: 100hp per liter on street fuel ? Natural aspirated
Post by: nicolas on March 24, 2009, 08:00:33 am

IS the VW engine the greatest engine design ever?



go ask that question on a Honda or To#ta forum  ;D