Motor plate on the street ?

[spoolin70]

Hi Loungers, hope your all well.

I'm looking for some guidance/real world experience with using a motor plate equipped car on the street?

I'm aware of the mechanics involved and it could easily be incorporated into some upcoming work but
i'm thinking will it be too solid/loud for uk roads ?

I'll keep this short for now as I'm guessing it's not something lots of people are using.
Plus I'm writing this with one hand, trying to stay upright on a chaotic double decker
bus. The driver must have learnt his skills from Otto from the simpsons, I'm sure we've
been on two wheels on more than one corner, we've left a CBR standing at
the lights and I swear I've heard a 2nd gear chirp !!

Plus this is my first proper post and as we are aware,
the first time never lasts as long as expected haha

Massive thanks

Darren

[andy198712]

Is that an adapter plate for another engine?

Your post lightened my night shift no end!

[spoolin70]

Good evening/morning

Apologies if my terminology is incorrect but no, still for a type 1 engine. I've always called it a motor plate but that might be wrong.
My car will be loosing it's torsion bar and frame horns, which will be replaced by a cage/frame above and below the gearbox.
Isn't this sometimes called back halving or a half chassis car ?
The bellhousing end of the box would incorporate the plate, held at 4 points. Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, fitting the plate would be relatively easy but as it's mainly a street car with a bit of
strip/circuit/hill climb in the mix so I'm wondering if the plate would be harsher than a solid mounted box on bumpy uk roads. But on the flip side, it does offer a great means of support.

Any thoughts ?

Ps. My trip home was no less chaotic. A mk2, faded red, automatic polo with 185k on the clock, 4 mismatched tyres and an erratic gearchange. Driven by a mate with a penchant for swerving to hit deep puddles while screaming like he's on a roller coaster. Coupled with a stomach full of Chinese food and a daschund on the back seat with a gas problem !

Isn't there a saying that's something like you never feel more alive than when your close to death hahaha

Thanks for any advice (or crazy trips home)

Darren

[richie]

What you are refering to is called a motor plate,you are correct,I only have limited street miles with one so cant say 100% for sure but it is no different to the engine & trans being solid mounted and there are 100s,maybe 1000s of vws that have been driven lots of street miles that way,you just have to think a little more about how you fasten everything as some people seem to suffer with stuff vibrating loose

cheers Richie

[spoolin70]

Ok, thanks Richie. That's gives me an indication of the solidity (is that a word?) that I could expect.

I always presumed it was the next level up from a solid mounted box with conventional frame horns, but if it's actually on par, it gives me something to go on. I do like the idea of a motor plate with it's 4 mounting points. Perhaps making the mounting holes for the plate oversized and using a two piece or pressed in urethane bush could be an option ?

I dredd to think what could vibrate loose driving from the uk to SCC  (enter dream sequence haha)

Big thanks
Darren

[Erlend / bug66]

Regarding stuff that would vibrate loose.

My uncle works at a Norwegian Harley Davidson dealer, and they have a saying that at the first service on new bikes, they need to tighten EVERY bolt 

I would loctite this you don't need to loosen later and use nylock-nuts on the things you need to loosen.


When I was younger I had a 50cc scooter that ended up as my VW
it had a 70cc cylinder/piston set, 80cc crank, big cluch etc etc (and a whopping 21mm carb  )
I had to tighten everything atleast one time every summer.. Including the nuts on the cylinder head! Switched everything out for nylock nuts and it's still together.

[andy198712]

Regarding stuff that would vibrate loose.

My uncle works at a Norwegian Harley Davidson dealer, and they have a saying that at the first service on new bikes, they need to tighten EVERY bolt 

I would loctite this you don't need to loosen later and use nylock-nuts on the things you need to loosen.


When I was younger I had a 50cc scooter that ended up as my VW
it had a 70cc cylinder/piston set, 80cc crank, big cluch etc etc (and a whopping 21mm carb  )
I had to tighten everything atleast one time every summer.. Including the nuts on the cylinder head! Switched everything out for nylock nuts and it's still together.

i used to get that on a DR350, but not on my ktm540... smoother i guess?

lockwire or locktite to be safe

[dragvw2180]

 This is what we built into John Toomeys new street car. Mike McCarthy

[Jon]

In this world of weight saving, why do racers fit "motorplates"? ..and at BOTH ends of the gearbox. I know it looks like a V8 car, but apart from that?
And what is the purpose of the four parallel tubes around the gearbox? ...to fit the wheelie bars?

 

[dragvw2180]

 Again this is a true street car that we will race , chassis is already 8.50 certed and weighs just over 1500 lbs dry. The engine is turboed with nitros, should be over 550 fwhp .The reason for our overkill is that on my PRO OUTLAW car I bent the engine and mid mounts forward , after going to a simular mounting system I never had another problem . My car only has 366 rwhp and weighs alot more , maybe you you can see why chassis flex is important to us, mine is the red car. Mike McCarthy

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/FJZrEFElU24" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/FJZrEFElU24</a>

[Jon]

I understand that volkswagens solution only goes so far. But we have to forgive them, it was their first attempt and the power was miniscule.
When they encountered the problem a some years later they made a hoop under the forks. That was on the splitscreen.
I personally don't think they got it right before they got to the late bays, where the box is hanging from a hoop over the gearbox. With the addition of a "berg style" bar in the rear. (just like Porsche is doing it on the 911)
Easy to work on in the car and you can drop everything down if you had to. On a race chassis you would make a triangle shape coming of the top and bottom of the main cage hoop that would tie together just over the bell housing. Do this right and you will have to distort the whole car to rotate the gearbox. Might save a few kilos from the heavy side of the car as well.

About the late bay hanging of the box and engine, this 1100nm floorpan bug uses the system... and has delivered them a promising 8.025 so far...   no tubes, no motor plates, no forks. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SVKvNhbfbi4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/SVKvNhbfbi4</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/UTFIxY1E5bk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/UTFIxY1E5bk</a>

Just trowing out some ideas... as the snow is melting

[dragvw2180]

 I am always looking to learn new things, would like to see the rear end setup on that car.   If I am reading your post correctly Jon , this is a full pan car with no reinforcement, no added tubing and stock mounts?   8.0 in the 1/4 is cooking !!!!!  Mike

[Jon]

It has a sixpoint rollcage, not tied to the framehorns. It has some reinforcments down the sides to where the "berg bar" is fitted.
There are no motorplates, and the framhorns are cut out to get room for the G50 gearbox. It's been a few years since I was under there so I might be wrong

[spoolin70]

Good morning all.

After reading the last couple of replies, maybe I should have called this thread -

"when are motor plates needed" ?

Does it purely come down to horsepower or is intended application a greater factor ?
I allways presumed that motor plates were the best form of support/bracing but can a few supports and a trapeze bar be made
to offer the same amount ?
I guess a hard launch on a well prepared track will exert the most force through a gearbox/mounting but what about if you put
hard braking and cornering into the equation and also road use (potholes) ?
Motorplates still the best or does the extra  weight outweigh the extra strength ?

Am I limited to the amount of question marks I can use per reply hahaha ?
?
?

Have a good now y'all

Thanks
Darren