Torq flywheel nut on wegdemate cranck an flywheel?

[cedric]

Like title...how much i have to torq a wegdemade flywheel and crank?
Thx in advance!

[Udo]

That depends on the  nut you have , i use Gene Berg that gets 450 Nm torque

Udo

[cedric]

Thx udo i have a gene berg. Is 450nm oke?

[BeetleBug]

I do not believe it is that easy. It will depend on when you have them wedged correctly. In other words, when your flywheel is where it is supposed to be. I was told to smack it hard with a sledgehammer in order to get it connected. If you are only going to use torque to connect them I believe you will need a lot more than 450nm. Especially if the wedgemate is new. I tried 1000nm (Scat bolt) and it did not get the flywheel all the way in. For what it is worth, I torqued a Scat bolt to 2200nm on an old VW crank without any problems. I could not measure any stretch and the threads was also OK.

-BB-

[Udo]

Thx udo i have a gene berg. Is 450nm oke?

 I did it like this and no problems with berg wedgemate cranks . 480 is ok too
Aren't there any instructions on their homepage ?
Udo

[cedric]

Thx you both!@udo i will look it up,@bb its the second time i heard from extreem torq...

[MeXX]

Hi

In my opinion there is no torque value for wedgemate that will work for everybody.
The following things have to be considered:

1. The gland nut is not limiting factor for the torque value. From my experience up to 1000 Nm is no problem (I never tried more than that.)
2. To get the full advantage of the wedgemate lock it has to be seated completely so that the area with the pins of the crank nose and the flywheel touches and has a slight pressure.
3. To be able to reach this the torque highly demands on the interference and the style of the wedgemate.

The only way I had success was by using ARP Ultra-Torque™ Fastener Assembly Lubricant on the threat and under the washer and a heavy duty Air Impact Wrench (at least 1000Nm). As the impacts are better to seat the taper than applied torque only.

Who much torque or when enough is enough?

If  you use an air impact wrench you can clearly hear when the taper is seated as the sound changes to a loud and clear ping-ping...
If you stop immediately you can check with a torque wrench. If you have less than 300Nm there is not enough interference.
I torque them up to 700Nm but I think anything between 500 and 1000Nm i OK. (I know it's a wide range but it's a huge threat).

So keep on torquing.......

MeXX
  

[BeetleBug]

I totally agree with you Mexx but I have never used any assembly lubricant since I believe it is friction that is keeping things together. But perhaps I do not understand you correctly? You apply lubricant only to get the wedge together and afterwards you clean everything well and apply torque?

Best rgs
BB

[richie]

He means he is using torque assembly lube[ which I haven't heard of before] under the gland nut washer and on the gland nut threads. I too use lube under the washer and then threadlock on the gland nut threads.

My method for tightening the taper is apply 450lbs/ft to the gland nut then take the socket and place it over the gland nut and give it a couple of good taps with a large hammer with the pulley bolt in the nose of the crank and it resting on the bench or solid surface, then apply 550lbs torque and do the same, each time you repeat if the nut is looser after the hammer impact it is still pushing the flywheel on to the crank taper, when it no longer comes loose I do final torque to 600lb/ft. I have been told by the person that does the wedgemates for me to put oil on the taper area to help it slip on but so far I have stuck to fitting it dry
 
As Mexx wrote you can hear/feel when it is down fully from experience I guess

cheers Richie

[MeXX]

I totally agree with you Mexx but I have never used any assembly lubricant since I believe it is friction that is keeping things together. But perhaps I do not understand you correctly? You apply lubricant only to get the wedge together and afterwards you clean everything well and apply torque?

Best rgs
BB

Sorry missunderstanding

I use assembly lube only on the threat and between the washer and the gland nut head never on the taper.

MeXX

[BeetleBug]

Dear Richie and Mexx, I believe that the washer should be completely dry since the friction it creates is what is keeping the flywheel on. Especially so on a non wedgemated crank. Of course the wedgemate (if done correctly) will help but I see no reason for not also using the friction under the washer. Hence the reason why the washer should always be as big as absolutely possible.

[MeXX]

He means he is using torque assembly lube[ which I haven't heard of before] under the gland nut washer and on the gland nut threads. I too use lube under the washer and then threadlock on the gland nut threads.

My method for tightening the taper is apply 450lbs/ft to the gland nut then take the socket and place it over the gland nut and give it a couple of good taps with a large hammer with the pulley bolt in the nose of the crank and it resting on the bench or solid surface, then apply 550lbs torque and do the same, each time you repeat if the nut is looser after the hammer impact it is still pushing the flywheel on to the crank taper, when it no longer comes loose I do final torque to 600lb/ft. I have been told by the person that does the wedgemates for me to put oil on the taper area to help it slip on but so far I have stuck to fitting it dry
 
As Mexx wrote you can hear/feel when it is down fully from experience I guess

cheers Richie

Dear Richie

I was using Loctite on the treats for years, but when I tried to assemble the wedgemate by torquing the gland nut it stared to cure before I was able to check the torque value giving me no feedback from the interference.
I had never ever had a problem that the gland nut came loose.. So it makes no sense for me to use Loctite.
The advantage of the assembly lube is that more of the applied torque is converted into clamping force.

MeXX

[BeetleBug]

I would like to bring this old thread back up again:

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14833.0.html

-BB-

[Jon]

No lube (or anything else)  between the flywheel and the crank is the rule, you can lube both threads and washer... it makes it easier to convert the torque to actual clamping force.
 

[richie]

Dear Richie and Mexx, I believe that the washer should be completely dry since the friction it creates is what is keeping the flywheel on. Especially so on a non wedgemated crank. Of course the wedgemate (if done correctly) will help but I see no reason for not also using the friction under the washer. Hence the reason why the washer should always be as big as absolutely possible.

I am just doing one now and actually putting it together made me realise I was slightly off with what i wrote earlier , I put lube between the bolt and washer to stop it galling[not sure if that is spelled correctly], not under the washer to flywheel.

cheers Richie

[MeXX]

I am just doing one now and actually putting it together made me realise I was slightly off with what i wrote earlier , I put lube between the bolt and washer to stop it galling[not sure if that is spelled correctly], not under the washer to flywheel.

cheers Richie

Dear Richie

I use the assembly lube between gland nut head and washer too. But why don't U use it on the threats?
BTW.: I think U use assembly lube on rod bolts on the heads and threats too without being afraid of coming loose 

MeXX

[richie]

Dear Richie

I use the assembly lube between gland nut head and washer too. But why don't U use it on the threats?

I have always used threadlock and never had one come off so stick to that

BTW.: I think U use assembly lube on rod bolts on the heads and threats too without being afraid of coming loose 

MeXX

 Correct I do, doesn't make sense that i do one way and the other differently, but i never thought of it that way before either


cheers Richie

[cedric]

Thx for all the advise!i will read between it and take all the best out!

[RhoadsVW]

My process is the same as how Richie does it and no issues. Could not have said it better. Well maybe a little.  But I have done it this way for over forty years.  Dave Rhoads
 

[cedric]

Thx for the advise,i star next week with bilding the engine....

[richie]

My process is the same as how Richie does it and no issues. Could not have said it better. Well maybe a little.  But I have done it this way for over forty years.  Dave Rhoads
 

I must have learnt to do it that way somewhere   Feel free to explain it better, my ability to take things from my mind and onto paper/keyboard is far from perfect


cheers Richie