UK Folks BIVA Questions

[baz]

So I'm reading here and there about these new biva regulations concerning modifications to old cars. I've read about a limited increase in horsepower possibly coming in to play.

Having never mot'd nor registered a car in the UK before I'm a little clueless how the whole thing works. What are the UK folk here thinking about how this will play out ?

[Andy]

It depends on the base car really, I can't see a problem with a cal look bug for example, you would have to modify the floorpan to be in danger of not scoring 8 points and losing the identity of say a 1967 Beetle . If it was sent for a Biva test that 1967 Beetle would be treated as a 2017 home built special.

A SWB buggy would have to go through the test, a LWB buggy wouldn't.

Regarding the power increase are you confusing the 40 + year old cars not needing an MOT from next year. I saw there was an exception that if you had more than 15% increase in power it would not be MOT exempt, nothing to do with Biva.

The 8 point system has been around since the late 1980s, the Biva test is the current version.

[baz]

Ah I think I'm confusing the 40 year exemption with biva like you say. So nothing to worry about then other than needing a mot which it would have needed anyway.

[Neil Davies]

Basically what Andy said.
If a vehicle is to retain its identity  then it needs to comply with 8 out of the 14 points available, including the 5 points for an unmodified chassis (floorpan in our case) or monocoque. Less than 8 points mean your car is cassified as "radically altered". It will need to go for BIVA testing, and your previously old car gets registered as a new vehicle, usually on a Q plate.
To be exempt from Road Tax, currently the car needs to be over 40 years old, and to be exempt from MOT the car needs to be pre-1960. As of (I think) April 2018, the MOT exemption is brought into line with Tax exemption, UNLESS it has more than 15% increased power to weight ratio over stock. In that case, you declare that your car is "substantially changed" when you tax your car online. You will need to MOT the car, but still retain the tax exempt status.

The risk is that by having separate MOT classes for Vehicles of Historical Interest (stock vehicles) and for modified cars, the taxation classes could later be changed. We could literally be priced off the roads.

[baz]

Basically what Andy said.
If a vehicle is to retain its identity  then it needs to comply with 8 out of the 14 points available, including the 5 points for an unmodified chassis (floorpan in our case) or monocoque. Less than 8 points mean your car is cassified as "radically altered". It will need to go for BIVA testing, and your previously old car gets registered as a new vehicle, usually on a Q plate.
To be exempt from Road Tax, currently the car needs to be over 40 years old, and to be exempt from MOT the car needs to be pre-1960. As of (I think) April 2018, the MOT exemption is brought into line with Tax exemption, UNLESS it has more than 15% increased power to weight ratio over stock. In that case, you declare that your car is "substantially changed" when you tax your car online. You will need to MOT the car, but still retain the tax exempt status.

The risk is that by having separate MOT classes for Vehicles of Historical Interest (stock vehicles) and for modified cars, the taxation classes could later be changed. We could literally be priced off the roads.

Thanks for the explanation. Would chassis mods like framehorn stiffeners and mid mount be classed as a modified chassis ?

[Neil Davies]

I dont believe so, but a narrowed and raised torsion housing would be, as would shortening the pan for a buggy. The rules say that the pan halves must be intact so a spaceframe using the original spine, framehead and rear end is also BIVA territory, even if the rest of the car is stock!

[Fastbrit]

Where this will really have an impact is in the Bus scene, where the current fashion for narrowed and raised beams, notched chassis rails, raised front wheel tubs etc will all require the vehicle to be subject to BIVA, or IVA if professionally converted. The moral of the story here is don't make any modifications to your Bus's chassis or body – they are a welded unit and considered to be a unitary construction, modifications to which mean that the vehicle immediately fails the 8-point rule. Some 'experts' on other forums say that a Bus has chassis rails/outriggers etc, so tubbing the front end is OK. It isn't...

As Neil says, Cal Look Bugs are pretty safe as long as you don't get into torsion tube raises, framehead swaps from MacPherson to torsion bar, etc. However, strictly speaking, if you moved the gear lever location back, for example, even with no other mods, that would constitute a 'fail'...

[Andrew]

So a Cal Look Beetle with more than 15% power to weight increase would still require a MOT annual test but is still an historic vehicle in terms of road tax, right? Drop back in a stock engine and no annual test required...

When are they talking about bringing thus new law into effect?

[Andy]

There has been a case already where a bus was refused an MOT and sent to VOSA for an inspection because it had chassis notches , I believe the owner restored the notches back to stock and raised the bus a little to avoid opening a can of worms.
However there are a few buses that have been channeled / bodydropped , they will be a liability as to whether they get caught and sent for a Biva test.

Regarding being MOT exempt from next year, I would be concerned about travelling abroad in the car without one just in case I got stopped by the police.

[Neil Davies]

As Neil says, Cal Look Bugs are pretty safe as long as you don't get into torsion tube raises, framehead swaps from MacPherson to torsion bar, etc. However, strictly speaking, if you moved the gear lever location back, for example, even with no other mods, that would constitute a 'fail'...

Even welding on IRS brackets could see you having to go for BIVA! Realistically, if you don't take the Mickey, you'll probably be ok. Moving the gearstick will probably go un-noticed. Pie-cutting the framehead likewise. Swapping frameheads is going a bit far, as although you are allowed to replace a framehead as a repair, youd have to keep it the same as the original. Shame, because I've got a MINT '03 pan and no need for the strut front end... chances are if it's under a stock Beetle shell it'll never get picked up, but I wouldn't want to risk it!

[leec]

But if the welding is done right, for example on the IRS brackets, will an MOT man know or see it as a modification?

Lee

[Fastbrit]

It's nothing to do with MOT - your guy won't be the one doing BIVA checks. That's down to a specialist workshop business which has the DVSA contract.

As for adding IRS brackets, probably not a problem as you're not actually removing anything...

[leec]

It's nothing to do with MOT - your guy won't be the one doing BIVA checks. That's down to a specialist workshop business which has the DVSA contract.

As for adding IRS brackets, probably not a problem as you're not actually removing anything...

So if its not the mot that notices, how else will anyone know?

[Fastbrit]

The onus will be on the owner to be honest, bearing in mind that the DVSA now has direct access to the insurance database which, as long as people have their cars legally and honestly insured, will have details of modifications. You say your car's stock, and it isn't, then the chances are you'll get asked to have it inspected. Get pulled by the Police for a 'routine' matter (speeding, accident etc) and they discover your car isn't as stated, then you'll be in deep sh*t.

And don't think the inspectorate don't know the ins and outs of these cars – I realised the subject of installing wider RSR-style rear wings on Porsches, and they knew instantly exactly how the bodyshells were built... They also have a big photographic database built following visits to car shows. Stupid they are not...

[numbnuts]

So, have they grouped all vehicles that are over 40 years in the same class? so now my 56 which previously needed no MOT now needs it if I declare the power/weight increase?

[stretch]

So, have they grouped all vehicles that are over 40 years in the same class? so now my 56 which previously needed no MOT now needs it if I declare the power/weight increase?

I'll be in the same situation.  I'll be interested to found out the answer.

[Andrew]

So, have they grouped all vehicles that are over 40 years in the same class? so now my 56 which previously needed no MOT now needs it if I declare the power/weight increase?

Yes, that seems to be one consequence of this rule change.

[numbnuts]

But it just needs an mot with this power increase? Mot's are not a problem, a Q plate is though

[Andy]

Q plates only come in to play if the identity of your car is in doubt, and you get your V5 taken away until you put the car through a BIVA test.  A cal look bug is unlikely to get caught up in this.

The 40 year MOT exemption is a separate issue completely, I am not sure if the details have been finalised as a 15 percent increase in power is pretty minimal.