W120 favorite cam? why?

[nicolas]

i never used it and i have always heard from one enginebuilder it isn't a cam that is very 'usefull'. so he never uses it, and i accepted that as being true as there are cams that seem not to be as 'hot/good' as others.

but indeed Mark H. liked it, and looking at the video it DOES perform really, REALLY good and now i read that others like it as much.

so enlighten me and show me the way to use a W120 in a way it should/could be used.

in a way i was thinking the W120 is the big brother off the W110 and therefore intended for 2l+ engines and the W110 is for sub 2l engines... 

[Diederick/DVK]

life starts with a w130.
you know it makes sense

[TexasTom]

I like it because it's a good balance of streetable power and torque and its easy on components. Excellent throttle response and pulls past 6k; doesn't go over the edge. I've used it in stock valve ported heads and large valve units ... a good all-arounder.

[Tony M]

I have one in my engine right now. Works very good, pulls hard, still has a good idle. Not hard on valve train.

[Jim Ratto]

like all cams, the end result of "how it works' depends on what you drop it in. In my way of doing things, the W120 works really well in 1776's with nice heads, 8.5:1 and 44mm Webers, it makes for a potent, yet docile motor. You have to think first of single cylinder displacement. Then use of car. Intake system. Compression ratio.
I guess to simplify, look at it like this:

1776-1835cc with ported stock valve dual port OR 40x35, two 44mm carbs: 2500-6500rpm, quiet valvetrain fair idle (w/ 2 2-throat carbs)[good for street hot rod]

1835-1914 with 40x35, two 44mm carbs: 2000-6000rpm, quiet v/t, silky idle [good for any application for fast street, heavy later models,..]

2000+ with 40 x 35, two 44mm+ carbs, CR under 9:1: idle to 5800-6000, smoother idle than stock, [great for big cc engine in daily driven Type 3 or Bus or heavy dirt buggy].

[Bewitched666]

That cam put my first 1914cc engine in the 14's

[Bewitched666]

vwfye,

what combo makes 1934 or is it a typo?

[dyno don]

ah yes...the ol' 120 engle cam.....   must consider that when this cam was designed /it has been over 40 years ago/ 40X35 heads were in fashion and could only flow so much and the 120 was the answer to both worlds of the spectrum being that the 100/110 cams were widely used but were limited for more power...(fyi)the 110 was considered a 3/4 race cam..which made the 120 a full on race cam at the time...  being that the duration was sufficiant with the 120 around the low 290's ... enough to make power down low still providing gobs of mid and top end charge for off roaders as well as two lane blacktop racers alike it solidified its placement and the vw ranks and led the battle to the 130/140/160 series cams and beyond. every engine "guru" has his or hers favorite cam but from my experience this cam brought forth the best of both worlds in the vw community. for years engle has played with valvetrain dynamics and longevity especially with vw's making them the number 1 choice for vw engine building to this day. remember>cam selection has EVERYTHING to do with total driveability..!! ...weight of car/tire selection/compression/carburation/displacement..etc...all have an important factor in selecting the proper cam. i ran the engle 120 in many of my projects as well as my (legendary)/1600 single port engine(early/mid 70's) ,which everyone said couldnt be done,  and had xlnt results..achieving 15:01 with a  sled notchback with street tires/fan belt/radials/and bested 41.6 MPG..!! >but mind you i researched many things to take into the equation for the results to become what they were. overall the engle 120 cam has solidified its existense and will continue for many years to come no doubt.  as for "the mechanic's fondness" or dislike...he is absolutely right...when rebuliding vw stock or very mild applications ..stock cam of course...or an engle 100 can be warranted but to a true and dedicated engine builder of stock vw engines anything other is considered overkill... and for all the right reasons..!!

[Jim Ratto]

i never used it and i have always heard from one enginebuilder it isn't a cam that is very 'usefull'. so he never uses it, and i accepted that as being true as there are cams that seem not to be as 'hot/good' as others.

but indeed Mark H. liked it, and looking at the video it DOES perform really, REALLY good and now i read that others like it as much.

so enlighten me and show me the way to use a W120 in a way it should/could be used.

in a way i was thinking the W120 is the big brother off the W110 and therefore intended for 2l+ engines and the W110 is for sub 2l engines... 

I re-read your post Nicolas,

The W120 isn't very useful?
I have to disagree.

I think any cam that can widen the power band of such a wide array of engines (cc wise, intake wise, etc) and STILL not beat the valvetrain into submission (provided it's set up correctly) could be deemed "useful".

I look at it like this: you can drop the 120 in just about anything and it will be "good" at something. It would be hard to go wrong.

Try that with FK87 or VZ35 or some other romper-stompy cam profile. If you don't get some "variable" just right on, you'll have a mess.

I wish the cam companies would give customers more insight instead of "Hot Street" or "Drag Racing Only"

you can take the 120 "Off Road" in the right motor.
you can drive the FK10 on other streets than the 1/4 mile.

[Catbox]

The 11 year answer.

But I still liked reading the whole thread anyway.
 

[Martin S.]

vwfye,

what combo makes 1934 or is it a typo?

76x90 NPR

There was a local volume engine rebuild shop going out of business a few years ago who had a set of NPR pistons/cyls on the shelf. I should have grabbed them! 

[Karlos99]

Mate of mine has a w120 in a 1955cc bus motor with 44’s and it quite a nice drive I think.

[Brian Rogers]

Seriously looking at this cam for a 2165 in a vert. Carbs will be on the small side, 40 Dells, 34 vents.  Not looking for a race engine but a fun freeway cruiser, stop light gran prix.

[Garrick Clark]

I've just built a 2007, 120 cam, with 44 webers, stock ish heads, it's more of a driver than a racer, especially with the 3.88, as that seams to tame down the acceleration.
It had 1200 gearing  before, which made for a wound up driving experience

[Torben Alstrup]

I saw ONE guy with ONE engine some years back at a JPM Dynoday that for some reason made great power with a 1914 displacement and the W120 cam. That´s it.
Generally, in smaller engines it works alright, nothing special, but alright.  In large engines, I for one can´t make iit work. I have been able to pull some nice (Web cam like) torque with it, but the hp stays in the garage.

I once built a 2165 out of parts from 2 large boxes. My choice was  the W110 or the W120. Naturally I chose the 120. Heads were GO3 041´s which had a giant ledge above the seats on the intake. I got seats installed so the ledge disappeared and ended up with 42 mm valves on a nice 90% seat. I performed a VERY nine port job on them. 9,5 CR  topped it off with 1,25 rockers, 40 mm alfa Dells with detailed carb tops and 34/38 Berg style venturies and a Super Comp EVO exhaust. Resuls were 143 hp at around 5300 and 225 Nm torque. Torque was good. Almost brutal down low, but there was no "fun" above approx 4500. Even tried with 44 IDF´s but it didnt produce one bit of power or torque. The guy ran the engine for 1 season. Then decided to swop the cam on my recommendation to a W125 (He wanted to stay Engle)
TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMAL!  It picked up everywhere but below 2000 which was quite OK. Actually made it more soft to city drive. Now it pulls 157 hp @ 5600 and a very respectable 230 Nm torque