NEW Steering wheel from Flat 4

[Stephan S]

While at the ISP West BBQ 2009 I had the chance to compare the new reproduction Speedwell wheel from Flat-4 with my original Speedwell wheel. There are some differences that will separate the original form the repro. The quality of the Flat-4 wheel is top notch and I am in no way knocking it here. In fact it felt more solid than the original. The wood grain is a dead on match to the original, and has a very nice gloss finish. Here are a couple of the differences (with the repro).

- The aluminum spokes are a thicker gauge. Which IMO makes it strong.
- The spokes, at their smallest point, before they flare out to the wood is wider.
- The wood rim is slightly thicker.

If you notice in the picture the center section of the repro is larger in diameter than the original one pictured. The difference probably being between an early and a later model of the wheel. They were both offered originally. The repro has a dish of about 4 inches. I didn't measure it, but it was deeper than mine which is three inches.

Critter, I saw Nao yesterday and, from what I understand, the wheel in the picture is definitely not the final product. More changes have been made to look much closer to the real thing.

[Critter1]

While at the ISP West BBQ 2009 I had the chance to compare the new reproduction Speedwell wheel from Flat-4 with my original Speedwell wheel. There are some differences that will separate the original form the repro. The quality of the Flat-4 wheel is top notch and I am in no way knocking it here. In fact it felt more solid than the original. The wood grain is a dead on match to the original, and has a very nice gloss finish. Here are a couple of the differences (with the repro).

- The aluminum spokes are a thicker gauge. Which IMO makes it strong.
- The spokes, at their smallest point, before they flare out to the wood is wider.
- The wood rim is slightly thicker.

If you notice in the picture the center section of the repro is larger in diameter than the original one pictured. The difference probably being between an early and a later model of the wheel. They were both offered originally. The repro has a dish of about 4 inches. I didn't measure it, but it was deeper than mine which is three inches.

Critter, I saw Nao yesterday and, from what I understand, the wheel in the picture is definitely not the final product. More changes have been made to look much closer to the real thing.

Stephan- That is interesting. It makes me wonder and think about the whole process of making a repro. I guess its all about trial and error. Either way, they do excellent work!!

[vwtaiwan]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Hi Don 



Just to offer another perspective.  I, like you, dont like to follow the crowd.  I tend to do what I like with my car.  One of the reasons that I love Cal-Look VW's is that they are different than most hot-rods.  If I wanted to do what everyone else does, I would build a Camaro or Nova.  Within the VW hobby, I also like being a bit different too.  This is why I put Americans on my car over ten years ago instead of BRM's.  Now this may not be important to you, but the quest for rare parts has always been a major componant of why I enjoy this hobby.

To offer some history,  I used to have a normal Empi steering wheel on my car, but the replicas came out and soon everyone had them.  So, I searched out a Speedwell wheel and spent a good chunk of money on it...just to be a bit different.  Now, there is a repro and once again everyone will have them.

I search long and hard for a 67 vert decklid back in the mid 90's and now people are fabricating them.  I spent another large chunk of money to buy an original Scheel seat racing seat used on the 911 ST's back in 1971 and installed it in my 911.  Six months later, someone started reproducing them.  I spent $800 for a pair of Cibie hood lights for my 911 and before I could get them installed, reproductions came out.  I never have bothered to install them since everybody seems to have them now.  Uber rare hockey puck horn button for my 911.....12 months after finding one reproductions are released.  Now everyone has one. 

There is nothing that can be done about it...the demand is being filled by enterprising companies.  But acknowledging this doesnt mean that I dont have a right to be frustrated every time some cool part I searched for months or years to find is reproduced in mass quantities.  This doesnt mean that cars with reproduction parts are any less valid that one who has all original bits.  But, you cannot ignore that rarity is a major componant of desirability.  Would we lust after a Ferrari GTO if they had been made in the same quantities as Chevy Chevette's?  Or, if a company came out with a perfect Ferrari replica, accurate in every way, and offered them at a cost and quantity where the average car guy could afford them...do you think the originals would retain thier cache'?

Again, nothing more than my perspective.  Best, DC

Yes but you have the real stuff, that makes your car rare. Take Flat 4 for example, their GTV steering wheel is a very good quality product, except for the horn button that looks cheap to me. It's he same for their Enkei wheels, they make it very well but the center cap is a cheap plastic "fake chrome" made in Taiwan.
Except some little details, Flat4 make great repros, but sometimes repros are crap. I remember when I was restoring my beetle buying some new turn signals on a catalog, the description says nothing more than "turn signal for beetle, 65 and up". When I receive it, it was some sh*t made in taiwan, I oppened the box and the chrome was already rusted and the orange lenses looked bad. I sent it back, and found some Hella stuff in Germany. It was the same when I bought some US rear lights lenses, it was a WCM product but did'nt fit correctly on the fender mounting, it broke because of vibrations after a few weeks, now I have old Hella euro-lenses and it's ok.

Dear Nico86,
  I am sorry that there are lots of junk parts made in TAIWAN . The reason is the buyer will pay just a little for manufacturing .

[bugnut68]

shame
everyone will be running speedwell's now!!! 

Not me, I'm more of a Formuling France kinda guy!

[jimi323]

I was just browsing the flat 4 website and notice a picture of a possible "new" steering wheel. The home page shows a picture of a wooden coach wheel with all the trimmings..... nice. 

in this first photo the wheel looks like a PETRI...not speedwell

[Nico86]

I'm an old guy (65 next month) and if there is one thing I learned it's to be less concerned about what others decide or do and be more concerned about what I decide and do.  I have repro BRMs.  I always wanted the real thing and figured out that I would be lucky to get Repros.  It gives me the look I like and that is all that matters to me.  I have a Repro Empi steering wheel and I am fine with that I don't care that many others have them or that it is not original.  I like the way it looks!  Personally I prefer the look of the repro to the original.  That is my opinion.  I do realize that this is perhaps heresy on this site, but that is OK with me.  I made my choices for me not for everyone else.  I am sure that the new wheel have many takers.  That makes Flat-4 just that much more profitable.  Be happy that someone out there is making quality parts for our VWs.  Many businesses have suffered and gone out of business.  Now if I just had more money to spend on my car I would be a lot happier.  I will now get down off my soap box.

Hi Don 



Just to offer another perspective.  I, like you, dont like to follow the crowd.  I tend to do what I like with my car.  One of the reasons that I love Cal-Look VW's is that they are different than most hot-rods.  If I wanted to do what everyone else does, I would build a Camaro or Nova.  Within the VW hobby, I also like being a bit different too.  This is why I put Americans on my car over ten years ago instead of BRM's.  Now this may not be important to you, but the quest for rare parts has always been a major componant of why I enjoy this hobby.

To offer some history,  I used to have a normal Empi steering wheel on my car, but the replicas came out and soon everyone had them.  So, I searched out a Speedwell wheel and spent a good chunk of money on it...just to be a bit different.  Now, there is a repro and once again everyone will have them.

I search long and hard for a 67 vert decklid back in the mid 90's and now people are fabricating them.  I spent another large chunk of money to buy an original Scheel seat racing seat used on the 911 ST's back in 1971 and installed it in my 911.  Six months later, someone started reproducing them.  I spent $800 for a pair of Cibie hood lights for my 911 and before I could get them installed, reproductions came out.  I never have bothered to install them since everybody seems to have them now.  Uber rare hockey puck horn button for my 911.....12 months after finding one reproductions are released.  Now everyone has one. 

There is nothing that can be done about it...the demand is being filled by enterprising companies.  But acknowledging this doesnt mean that I dont have a right to be frustrated every time some cool part I searched for months or years to find is reproduced in mass quantities.  This doesnt mean that cars with reproduction parts are any less valid that one who has all original bits.  But, you cannot ignore that rarity is a major componant of desirability.  Would we lust after a Ferrari GTO if they had been made in the same quantities as Chevy Chevette's?  Or, if a company came out with a perfect Ferrari replica, accurate in every way, and offered them at a cost and quantity where the average car guy could afford them...do you think the originals would retain thier cache'?

Again, nothing more than my perspective.  Best, DC

Yes but you have the real stuff, that makes your car rare. Take Flat 4 for example, their GTV steering wheel is a very good quality product, except for the horn button that looks cheap to me. It's he same for their Enkei wheels, they make it very well but the center cap is a cheap plastic "fake chrome" made in Taiwan.
Except some little details, Flat4 make great repros, but sometimes repros are crap. I remember when I was restoring my beetle buying some new turn signals on a catalog, the description says nothing more than "turn signal for beetle, 65 and up". When I receive it, it was some sh*t made in taiwan, I oppened the box and the chrome was already rusted and the orange lenses looked bad. I sent it back, and found some Hella stuff in Germany. It was the same when I bought some US rear lights lenses, it was a WCM product but did'nt fit correctly on the fender mounting, it broke because of vibrations after a few weeks, now I have old Hella euro-lenses and it's ok.

Dear Nico86,
  I am sorry that there are lots of junk parts made in TAIWAN . The reason is the buyer will pay just a little for manufacturing .

Don't worry the problem is not it's made in Taiwan or China  , the problem is that it looks cheap when you compare it to the wheel, and that they sell it at a high price ( 25 € for 1 Enkei center cap  ). I have a Squier guitar that's made in China, an Ibanez that's made in Taiwan and a Marshall amp that's made in India, but they are nicely done and they look and sound perfectly.

[redhat]

Now on sale in japan 
www.flat4.co.jp

[BigALboski]

When will this be available in the USA?

[rick m]

As another older fart...not as old as Donny B,  I've owned both the real stuff (Okrasa, BRMS, EMPI, DDS, etc), and I could careless anymore about owning the real stuff. I have to admit it all brought a good price when I finally decided to liquidate it all. Other than the return on investment factor, I love all the stuff we have today vs. 40 years back.  There was some great stuff in the early 70's but I would have to agree about the BRMs and original EMPI wheels. Every set I owned, especially the 5 spoke EMPI's, developed cracks.  They were all split rims and I would not have them on my car today.  They are not safe and I would not throw my car away in having one come apart...just for the sake of being cool.

Since I've owned both the old and the new...I prefer some of the new and some of the old.  Things I will never stop purchasing...real IDA's, PAUTER, CARILLO, BERG, OKRASA (when I find them) and even some SCAT parts.  Newer things I have no problems purchasing...CB heads, cranks & rods, FLAT FOUR parts, some SCAT parts, CSP parts (good quality), and a host of other newer things that are actually nice stuff.

I've been through the hoarding and cool factor stuff. I am purely building things for my own fun and enjoyment now. I think the last old school items I sold went to Deano (Kirsten) which were a pristine set of polished original tall EMPI IDA manifolds.  I still have some Deano stuff and run it on my car. As for old school parts, they are fun to own but some of the stuff was crap. I just took an old RACE TRIM sump off my 1915 street engine that leaked badly. The part that bolts to the case was made too thin back in the day. I knew better when putting it on the motor. What replaced it...the dependable, well made BERG sump...that never fails me.

I had to jump in on this thread since my cruising buddy Don was posting.

Rick M

[PIMPPRIDE]

we have some on order with them, I've recently received pricing on these from Flat 4 and lets say they are going to be expensive... unless the numbers I was giving were off... its going to be a $400 steering wheel here in the USA

Anthony / ISP WEST

[Nico86]

A question : will the new boss from Flat 4 fit the original steering wheel ? Or it only works with the Flat 4 wheel ?

[PIMPPRIDE]

our made in USA boss is done...

Anthony / ISP WEST





installed

[Dave Rosique]

Very nice Anthony!

[Fastbrit]

As another older fart...not as old as Donny B,  I've owned both the real stuff (Okrasa, BRMS, EMPI, DDS, etc), and I could careless anymore about owning the real stuff. I have to admit it all brought a good price when I finally decided to liquidate it all. Other than the return on investment factor, I love all the stuff we have today vs. 40 years back.  There was some great stuff in the early 70's but I would have to agree about the BRMs and original EMPI wheels. Every set I owned, especially the 5 spoke EMPI's, developed cracks.  They were all split rims and I would not have them on my car today.  They are not safe and I would not throw my car away in having one come apart...just for the sake of being cool.

Since I've owned both the old and the new...I prefer some of the new and some of the old.  Things I will never stop purchasing...real IDA's, PAUTER, CARILLO, BERG, OKRASA (when I find them) and even some SCAT parts.  Newer things I have no problems purchasing...CB heads, cranks & rods, FLAT FOUR parts, some SCAT parts, CSP parts (good quality), and a host of other newer things that are actually nice stuff.

I've been through the hoarding and cool factor stuff. I am purely building things for my own fun and enjoyment now. I think the last old school items I sold went to Deano (Kirsten) which were a pristine set of polished original tall EMPI IDA manifolds.  I still have some Deano stuff and run it on my car. As for old school parts, they are fun to own but some of the stuff was crap. I just took an old RACE TRIM sump off my 1915 street engine that leaked badly. The part that bolts to the case was made too thin back in the day. I knew better when putting it on the motor. What replaced it...the dependable, well made BERG sump...that never fails me.

I had to jump in on this thread since my cruising buddy Don was posting.

Rick M

Just reread your post Rick, and I have to say I agree with you in every respect... 

[ST DRAGN]

While at the ISP West BBQ 2009 I had the chance to compare the new reproduction Speedwell wheel from Flat-4 with my original Speedwell wheel. There are some differences that will separate the original form the repro. The quality of the Flat-4 wheel is top notch and I am in no way knocking it here. In fact it felt more solid than the original. The wood grain is a dead on match to the original, and has a very nice gloss finish. Here are a couple of the differences (with the repro).

- The aluminum spokes are a thicker gauge. Which IMO makes it strong.
- The spokes, at their smallest point, before they flare out to the wood is wider.
- The wood rim is slightly thicker.

If you notice in the picture the center section of the repro is larger in diameter than the original one pictured. The difference probably being between an early and a later model of the wheel. They were both offered originally. The repro has a dish of about 4 inches. I didn't measure it, but it was deeper than mine which is three inches.

ISP is working on a boss for this wheel. The repro wheel they had was for display only and they are not yet selling it.

Original on the left. Reproduction Flat-4 on the right.

 The original Speedwell 14" wheel with the EMPI light blue logo is one of my all time favorites..Anyways, If my memory serves me well. There were two models to choice from a early and late?

One was a dark wood (same color as the EMPI GT) with the large spoke hole patterns ..Take note on the three spoke holes. and the second model had the lighter brown wood ( same color as the repop Speedwell ) but with smaller hole patterns.

So, correct me if I' am wrong here. The repop has the light brown wood w/large hole patterns?

Does anyone have a Speedwell catalog to confirm a early model vs. late model?

[Nico86]

our made in USA boss is done...

Anthony / ISP WEST

Anthony, will it fit the original Speedwell wheel or only the Flat4 one ?

[speedwell]

this one look like the flat 4 one, it was on rikki james squareback at freddy files  this year , look  the hub is very different from the original one (smaller)

[Nico86]

Yes that's the boss for the Flat4 GT. I have one but to mount the speedwell wheel with this I'd have to re-drill the steering wheel. I'll have to find an original speedwell boss too.

[PIMPPRIDE]

from everything I know and have seen... our boss will fit original wheels and flat 4 wheels... I have seen wheels with the same 3 bolt pattern and told they were original speedwell wheels, now if your wheel does not have the 3 bolt pattern, I think its a simple solution to drill the 3 holes to fit the boss to the wheel... as its all hidden anyhow

Anthony / ISP WEST

[Nico86]

I guess that's what I will do because the boss for the Flat4 has a more important outer diameter, I'm not sur it will fit the original wheel.

[Nico86]

So I bought the ISP boss for an original wheel, and...      ...it doesn't fit.
The outer diameter is too wide so it's impossbile to mount it (plus the bolt pattern have to be re-drilled anyway).
That's only for the Flat4.

[Cornpanzer]

Nico,
Perhaps you could have the new boss turned down by a machinist so that it will work.

[Nico86]

Yes that will work for the boss, but the problem will be with the horn button. This one have the same outer diameter as the top of the boss (it covers it). If I machine it, the horn button will be wider than the boss.
But I've checked with an ISP boss for GT wheel and it's ok, I just have to re-drill holes in the wheel because bolts have a bigger diameter.

[PIMPPRIDE]

sorry it did not work for you, but it sounds like you have a different version of a speedwell wheel, because the top of the boss matches the stock horn button diameter, and you said if the boss is turned down smaller, the button would overhang... the center of the wheel must be smaller then a stock horn button then, upload or email me some photos of the wheel...  ( interesting issue )

Anthony / ISP WEST

[Nico86]

Maybe I have another version of the wheel. The boss for the GT wheel fits perfectly on it, same outer diameter, as I said I only need to re-drill bigger diameter holes for the bolts. I'll post some pics. 

[Jason Foster]

shame
everyone will be running speedwell's now!!! 

Not me, I'm more of a Formuling France kinda guy!

  Me too.

[Jon]

shame
everyone will be running speedwell's now!!! 

Not me, I'm more of a Formuling France kinda guy!

  Me too.

Me three! As the saying that goes: Wooden steering wheels are for boats.

[roland]

Me three! As the saying that goes: Wooden steering wheels are for boats.

Ahaha, true indeed!