2165cc engine

[Bad bug]

Good dayAll,

what's the torque anyone has gotten out of a 2165cc engine. I want to do one with 1 5/8/ header, 44mm weber carbs, CB spuer pro heads, web 86b cam, coil near plug ( yukon denali coils, truck coil ) managed by mega squirt. 1.4 : 1 rockers.

[John Maher]

The average half-decent street engine will generally make 65-75ftlb torque per litre i.e. somewhere between 140ftlb and 160ftlb for a 2165.

Bad combos will make less, extremely good ones will make more but most will fall within that range.

Exactly where peak torque will occur in the rpm range is down to cam, ports, valve sizes, carburetion and a ton of other stuff.

[Bad bug]

Thanks for replying john. So what if i wanted to get 180 ft/lbs from this engine it wouldn't be attainable then. I want a head with loads of air speed so as to have a drivable daily driver with very quick response on the throttle.

[John Maher]

Being realistic, it's unlikely you will achieve 180ftlb with a mildly tuned n/a 2165cc street engine - that equates to 83ftlb per litre. Only engines with extremely fine tuned intake and exhaust systems, optimised heads etc etc are capable of achieving that level of performance. State of the art n/a race engines (F1, Pro Stock, Nascar) max out around 95ftlb per litre.

For maximum driveability on the street, rather than concentrate on a specific peak torque figure, tweak the specification to achieve good torque across a wide rpm range. Even if that means taking a hit on the peak torque figure, you may find AVERAGE torque between say 2000rpm and 6000rpm is equal to or even greater than average torque across the same range on an engine with higher PEAK torque.

If you're still after that 180ftlb target and want good street performance, build a bigger motor.
(or force more air through your 2165).

[Torben Alstrup]

Being realistic, it's unlikely you will achieve 180ftlb with a mildly tuned n/a 2165cc street engine - that equates to 83ftlb per litre. Only engines with extremely fine tuned intake and exhaust systems, optimised heads etc etc are capable of achieving that level of performance. State of the art n/a race engines (F1, Pro Stock, Nascar) max out around 95ftlb per litre.

For maximum driveability on the street, rather than concentrate on a specific peak torque figure, tweak the specification to achieve good torque across a wide rpm range. Even if that means taking a hit on the peak torque figure, you may find AVERAGE torque between say 2000rpm and 6000rpm is equal to or even greater than average torque across the same range on an engine with higher PEAK torque.

If you're still after that 180ftlb target and want good street performance, build a bigger motor.
(or force more air through your 2165).

Amen to that.

Also, if superior overall torque is what you want, you may want to step "down" to a set of Mini wedge (out of stock right now) or Timms stage2. With your displacement and parts choice those heads are better suited. Both heads are also designed to make very good overall torque. In the right set upIi have pulled 78 - 80 lbs torque per litre a couple of times, on V power fuel though, but on 2,1ish size engines.

T

[Jesse/DVK]

I have built a 2176cc. It has 230NM of torque and 188 HP (flywheel).

Specs + graph:
http://keversite.nl/motoren/motor.php?id=68

It is in Dutch but if you have any questions please ask.

[John Maher]

I have built a 2176cc. It has 230NM of torque and 188 HP (flywheel).

Hi Jesse,

230NM = 169ftlb
or 77ftlb per litre

Nice job!

[Bad bug]

I have built a 2176cc. It has 230NM of torque and 188 HP (flywheel).

Specs + graph:
http://keversite.nl/motoren/motor.php?id=68

It is in Dutch but if you have any questions please ask.

Hey jesse if i am reading this right you have 188hp i am assuming this is wheel HP at 6000 RPM and 169 ft/lbs of torque between say 5400 and 5500 rpm. Next i was also looking at your choice of exhaust, 1 3/4 inch and was wondering what this engine would do with a 1 5/8 inch exhaust and a set of super squish pistons.

[Shag55]

Just turbo it! Mine makes 290# of torque on pump gas.

[Torben Alstrup]

The 86c is an awesome cam. So are the Timms heads. As you can see the lower rpm torque suffers somewhat due to the cam being rather aggressive and the header being on the large side. Stepping down to a 1 5/8 header will improove torque in the midrange but most likely kill 2-5 hp top. (It all depends on what "we" want) But the torque numbers look quite normal with the parts taken into consideration.
As much as I like the 86C cam I would still say that for a daily driver I would stay 86b, because it makes more power in the driving rpms.

T

[Bad bug]

Torben i was looking at probably using the 86b on this engine.

[Bad bug]

Just turbo it! Mine makes 290# of torque on pump gas.

Shag55 thanks for your info. This engine will be turboed in the future with a holset hx35 turbo, low boost ( 10 pounds ) large volume air all controlled by megasquirt 3 ecu.

[Jesse/DVK]

I have built a 2176cc. It has 230NM of torque and 188 HP (flywheel).

Hi Jesse,

230NM = 169ftlb
or 77ftlb per litre

Nice job!

Hi John! Thanks I'm also very happy with the result!

@ Bad Bug, the 188hp is flywheel hp. I know my header is quitte large but it was also bought to use on a future (maybe larger) engine. I have plans to change some of this engine to reacht the goal of 100hp/ltr.

The compression rate is 10.7:1. I don't know these super squish pistons sorry. Regarding the header look what Torben said, he has more experience than I do.

BTW the dyno was done with 37mm vents in the IDA's and with fan belt.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2yUrsgSlX4o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/2yUrsgSlX4o</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlvIOOol96c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/NlvIOOol96c</a>

[Crazy Mc.Stairs]

Hi guys,

I've made a couple of months ago a 2165cc street engine for a customer that made 211.9Hp at 6300Rpm and 256Nm/188.78lb/ft at 5400Rpm.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17491.0.html

Christoph

[Udo]

Christoph. good numbers , what times did he at Bitburg ?

Udo

[Bad bug]

Hi guys,

I've made a couple of months ago a 2165cc street engine for a customer that made 211.9Hp at 6300Rpm and 256Nm/188.78lb/ft at 5400Rpm.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17491.0.html

Christoph

Is this engine a true 2165cc or a 2180cc, who's heads are you using.

[Crazy Mc.Stairs]

Christoph. good numbers , what times did he at Bitburg ?

Udo

Hi Udo,

Thanks, he did a 12.8 sec run but was driving really carefully! Next time I will drive it!

Christoph

[Crazy Mc.Stairs]

Hi guys,

I've made a couple of months ago a 2165cc street engine for a customer that made 211.9Hp at 6300Rpm and 256Nm/188.78lb/ft at 5400Rpm.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17491.0.html

Christoph

Is this engine a true 2165cc or a 2180cc, who's heads are you using.

It's a Scat 78.8mm volksracer crank..so yes, it's a 2189cc. I used BBT's Max heads, threw the valves, seats and guides away, reworked them completly!

Christoph

[Bad bug]

Thank you Crazy Mc Stairs i knew these engines were out there just waiting to be discovered. Now about the heads who is BBT.

[viNce]

It's a European wholesale dealer:

http://www.bbt4vw.com/fr/catalogue/5-moteur%20/2-bas-moteur-/culasse-max-head-/culasse-max-head-vide-p-par-pi-ce-94-mm/

[Bad bug]

Hi guys,

I've made a couple of months ago a 2165cc street engine for a customer that made 211.9Hp at 6300Rpm and 256Nm/188.78lb/ft at 5400Rpm.

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17491.0.html

Christoph

Is this engine a true 2165cc or a 2180cc, who's heads are you using.

It's a Scat 78.8mm volksracer crank..so yes, it's a 2189cc. I used BBT's Max heads, threw the valves, seats and guides away, reworked them completly!

Christoph

What does the flow figures on the head look like.

[Crazy Mc.Stairs]

At 15mm of lift I had 54l/s of flow through the carb and intake manifold at 25"H2O. Think it's about 181CFM...

Cheers Christoph

[Bad bug]

Ok christoph. I guess your airspeed was high because you got so much horsepower from the engine without you revving it higher. I like what i see was the number wheel horsepower.