Buggy Engine

[Doogster]

I have picked up a wee 1600 motor that a friend of mine build but it is really not to my taste in the looks department (kinda looks like it was built in the 80's when bad taste was in fashion) My plan is to pull it apart and give it a rebuild (something I have never done) So it will be a learning curve for me. What I want to build is a hot 1600 that is up a little bit on power from standard but also period correct 1970's in looks and parts used. Can anyone offer any suggestions to give me a bit of a start on this? 

[baz]

Exhaust,  carbs,  and some mild head work like a 3 angle valve job, in that order will see a nice increase over a stock 1600.

Maybe a magneto for 70s looks

[Doogster]

Exhaust,  carbs,  and some mild head work like a 3 angle valve job, in that order will see a nice increase over a stock 1600.

Maybe a magneto for 70s looks

That's kinda what I was thinking get the heads done for sure, was also thinking on a change in cam?? But not really sure what one?

Is Some mild head work something I could undertake myself? (anyone have a guide)

Carb wise what should I be looking at?

Sorry for all the questions folks.

[baz]

Exhaust,  carbs,  and some mild head work like a 3 angle valve job, in that order will see a nice increase over a stock 1600.

Maybe a magneto for 70s looks

That's kinda what I was thinking get the heads done for sure, was also thinking on a change in cam?? But not really sure what one?

Is Some mild head work something I could undertake myself? (anyone have a guide)

Carb wise what should I be looking at?

Sorry for all the questions folks.

It's much more work if you change cam, if the motor is recently built and built right,  then opening the case just for a cam swap seems a lot of effort.

There are plenty of guides online for porting heads but the valve job best left to a pro. Alan at gac builds formula vee motors, he knows his way around getting power from heads so might be worthwhile talking to him. He's cheaper than you'd expect too.

All dependson what you want from it of course and how much time and money you have to spend on it.

[Doogster]

Exhaust,  carbs,  and some mild head work like a 3 angle valve job, in that order will see a nice increase over a stock 1600.

Maybe a magneto for 70s looks

That's kinda what I was thinking get the heads done for sure, was also thinking on a change in cam?? But not really sure what one?

Is Some mild head work something I could undertake myself? (anyone have a guide)

Carb wise what should I be looking at?

Sorry for all the questions folks.

It's much more work if you change cam, if the motor is recently built and built right,  then opening the case just for a cam swap seems a lot of effort.

There are plenty of guides online for porting heads but the valve job best left to a pro. Alan at gac builds formula vee motors, he knows his way around getting power from heads so might be worthwhile talking to him. He's cheaper than you'd expect too.

All dependson what you want from it of course and how much time and money you have to spend on it.

That's the thing, its the first time my mate has built an engine, not that I am questioning his mechanical ability but he is pretty new to VW's and if I slot it in and it goes bang then I will have to slap him. The way I see it is if I rebuild it and it goes bang then its my own fault.

SO on that basis I think I will open the case.

Money and time wise, well it take as long as it takes and costs what it costs. (Although with a child and a crummy job as a buyer I do have to watch the funds which is why I will take as long as it takes)

I will send Alan a mail tomorrow and see what he can do.

Time wise I don't want to rush I would rather do it right, there are enough shoddy buggys going about I think its nice too see one that done right.

[baz]

I'd be thinking the same as you too,  if it's worth doing its worth doing right

[Doogster]

I'd be thinking the same as you too,  if it's worth doing its worth doing right

Exactly dude. A slippery slope and an empty wallet. But all good things come to those who wait.

[baz]

Yep. The good thing about a buggy is the lightness, have a chat with Alan about what you want from it and he won't steer you wrong

[Doogster]

Yep. The good thing about a buggy is the lightness, have a chat with Alan about what you want from it and he won't steer you wrong

 I will do thanks for the heads up on him. 

[Jim Ratto]

Decide on what commitment you want to make as far as carburetion before you decide on anything else. I am not only referring to the cost, but the calibration to make them run as you want, and the time to maintain and adjust them.
Guys tend to opt for the glamour of the 48IDA but then get lost trying to make them run on engine combinations that don't match the 48IDA. I'm not saying that's what your situation is.

There is a mathematical relationship between the displacement of and engine, the rpm you intend to twist it, and the carburetors best suited to it. You can fuzz the rules somewhat, but there will be a price to pay. The best thing to do is not get caught riding the "big glamour wagon" and instead be honest with yourself and color inside the lines.

A 1600 with stock 85.5 x 69 configuration, being realistic and spinning it 6000 rpm will work well, all around, with a good pair of 40IDF, 36DRLA/40DRLA. You can come down a level and pick 40mm Solex/Kadron too, which are simpler to install, tune and maintain, but don't have the refinement, the bravado or the HP potential the Italian 2bbl carbs have.

Once you commit to a carburetion setup, then you can start shopping for cams and heads etc.

Jim

[Doogster]

Decide on what commitment you want to make as far as carburetion before you decide on anything else. I am not only referring to the cost, but the calibration to make them run as you want, and the time to maintain and adjust them.
Guys tend to opt for the glamour of the 48IDA but then get lost trying to make them run on engine combinations that don't match the 48IDA. I'm not saying that's what your situation is.

There is a mathematical relationship between the displacement of and engine, the rpm you intend to twist it, and the carburetors best suited to it. You can fuzz the rules somewhat, but there will be a price to pay. The best thing to do is not get caught riding the "big glamour wagon" and instead be honest with yourself and color inside the lines.

A 1600 with stock 85.5 x 69 configuration, being realistic and spinning it 6000 rpm will work well, all around, with a good pair of 40IDF, 36DRLA/40DRLA. You can come down a level and pick 40mm Solex/Kadron too, which are simpler to install, tune and maintain, but don't have the refinement, the bravado or the HP potential the Italian 2bbl carbs have.

Once you commit to a carburetion setup, then you can start shopping for cams and heads etc.

Some Very good points Jim thanks, Of course I would like the 48ida route but I have got too be realistic so maybe dome 40 or 36drla are amore realistic carb given the financials. Are they easy enough to locate a set? What sort of price do they go for? Can I buy new? 

Jim

[Jim Ratto]

Decide on what commitment you want to make as far as carburetion before you decide on anything else. I am not only referring to the cost, but the calibration to make them run as you want, and the time to maintain and adjust them.
Guys tend to opt for the glamour of the 48IDA but then get lost trying to make them run on engine combinations that don't match the 48IDA. I'm not saying that's what your situation is.

There is a mathematical relationship between the displacement of and engine, the rpm you intend to twist it, and the carburetors best suited to it. You can fuzz the rules somewhat, but there will be a price to pay. The best thing to do is not get caught riding the "big glamour wagon" and instead be honest with yourself and color inside the lines.

A 1600 with stock 85.5 x 69 configuration, being realistic and spinning it 6000 rpm will work well, all around, with a good pair of 40IDF, 36DRLA/40DRLA. You can come down a level and pick 40mm Solex/Kadron too, which are simpler to install, tune and maintain, but don't have the refinement, the bravado or the HP potential the Italian 2bbl carbs have.

Once you commit to a carburetion setup, then you can start shopping for cams and heads etc.

Some Very good points Jim thanks, Of course I would like the 48ida route but I have got too be realistic so maybe dome 40 or 36drla are amore realistic carb given the financials. Are they easy enough to locate a set? What sort of price do they go for? Can I buy new? 

Jim

Unless you were to tune a 1600 into a high strung, single purpose prima-donna, 48IDA's are about as far away as ideal as you can get.
Yes you can buy Weber IDF new, but not Dellorto DRLA. Or they can be found used pretty easily.

[Doogster]

Decide on what commitment you want to make as far as carburetion before you decide on anything else. I am not only referring to the cost, but the calibration to make them run as you want, and the time to maintain and adjust them.
Guys tend to opt for the glamour of the 48IDA but then get lost trying to make them run on engine combinations that don't match the 48IDA. I'm not saying that's what your situation is.

There is a mathematical relationship between the displacement of and engine, the rpm you intend to twist it, and the carburetors best suited to it. You can fuzz the rules somewhat, but there will be a price to pay. The best thing to do is not get caught riding the "big glamour wagon" and instead be honest with yourself and color inside the lines.

A 1600 with stock 85.5 x 69 configuration, being realistic and spinning it 6000 rpm will work well, all around, with a good pair of 40IDF, 36DRLA/40DRLA. You can come down a level and pick 40mm Solex/Kadron too, which are simpler to install, tune and maintain, but don't have the refinement, the bravado or the HP potential the Italian 2bbl carbs have.

THanks Jim I got a PM about a set of 36drla for sale at a reasonable price, so maybe thats my starting point.

Next round of question, I am thinking about changing the crankshaft for a counterweighted item too, and a lightened flywheel, again do you think worth doing? What sort of reliable horse power can be made with a 1600?

Once you commit to a carburetion setup, then you can start shopping for cams and heads etc.

Some Very good points Jim thanks, Of course I would like the 48ida route but I have got too be realistic so maybe dome 40 or 36drla are amore realistic carb given the financials. Are they easy enough to locate a set? What sort of price do they go for? Can I buy new? 

Jim

Unless you were to tune a 1600 into a high strung, single purpose prima-donna, 48IDA's are about as far away as ideal as you can get.
Yes you can buy Weber IDF new, but not Dellorto DRLA. Or they can be found used pretty easily.

[Jim Ratto]

A long time ago I built my first VW engine ever, in 1988-89
It was an 87 x 69 (1641) with counterweighted VW crank, 9.0:1, "off the shelf" 041 heads with HD springs/retainers, solid shaft rockers, Porsche 911 adjusters, steel pushrods, Engle VZ25 cam, Scat lifters, 9.0:1, a 009 Bosch, dual 36DRLA and a header. It was a wonderful "driver" that I drove everywhere until I built a stroker engine a year or two later.
yes the cam was wilder than most suggested at the time, but I look back now and know that it was the state of tune of this engine that set my car apart from the other HP VW's that were in my area.

[Doogster]

What sort of horse power was it making Jim, I am really intrested in this "hot" 1600 cc Idea, once I get ym set of Wheels paid for then its onto collecting the engine parts I need.....

[modnrod]

I had the same type of engine as Jim, except it had a W110 and pocket-ported 041s.
Who knows how much HP they would have had, but mine with a single barrel carb got tuned into the high-15s using a 1300 gearbox and 195 radials in a '63.
When I had duals on it it was a lot quicker, but it lost a bit in the character stakes, a bit too refined.

[Jim Ratto]

What sort of horse power was it making Jim, I am really intrested in this "hot" 1600 cc Idea, once I get ym set of Wheels paid for then its onto collecting the engine parts I need.....

No idea. Didn't matter to me.