Need help determining what random ticking noise is...

[Brandon Sinclair]

Random ticking noise started on Sunday morning.  It does not happen until everything is warmed up and then it sounds like a valve train tick.  It is only noticable at idle and only happens once in a while then stops.  Yesterday evening I pulled the rockers to inspect the Porsche adjuster ends, rocker side play, and pushrod ends and everything was ok.  I tightened up the side play on two rockers and the other one that was out was at .008" but I did not have shims to make that smaller and was running out of day light.  I adjusted the valves, and I thought I was good but it occured again when I got home.  I am at a loss at what to check next.  This is a 2276, lifter bores are sleeved, has 15k miles and never an issue like this, but it has Scat lifters and that is always in the back of my mind.

These are what I plan on checking:

-fan, maybe something got in there or loose and is rattling
-loose engine tin
-loose manifolds
-distributor lubrication
-exhaust leak
-possible check cam lift with dial indicator (oil looks clean and good though)

I do not know what else to check.  Oil pressure is good (just like normal), and the engine is running strong, but I get this loud metallic tick sound once in a while and it is driving me nuts trying to figure out what it is.

Thanks for any advice.

[Jim Ratto]

easy to check if it is fan or not. Run it w/o belt in garage and see if it stops.
any chance something got on top of a piston?

I had a cam gear loosen up in 1989 and it made a random valvetrain-ish noise, very random.

Other thing.... a valve guide coming loose in head. I had this happen about 10 years ago and I chased my tail looking for it in cam gear, valve train, then thought to see if something (BIG) was going for a ride on top of intake valve like a socket or something, and found a guide was dancing back an forth on intake..... bingo!

good luck Brandon

Jim Ratto

[Brandon Sinclair]

Thanks for the info Jim.

I was going to pull the belt last night but the sound is so random that I shut down the engine and fired it up again the sound was gone.  I am afraid that the sound may also disappear when I remove the belt whether or not that is the problem.

I though about a loose cam gear too.  When yours came loose was it just one bolt and did it hit the oil pump housing?

Never thought of the valve guide.  Would I see brass shavings by the rockers if that was the case?

It crossed my mind that something may have fallen into the carbs but I have air filters on them so that should eliminate that problem.

What about a broken ring?  I would think if that was the case then the sound would be constant.

Anything else you can think of?  I just want to make a list and check it all at this point.

[Jim Ratto]

Thanks for the info Jim.

I was going to pull the belt last night but the sound is so random that I shut down the engine and fired it up again the sound was gone.  I am afraid that the sound may also disappear when I remove the belt whether or not that is the problem.

I though about a loose cam gear too.  When yours came loose was it just one bolt and did it hit the oil pump housing?

Never thought of the valve guide.  Would I see brass shavings by the rockers if that was the case?

It crossed my mind that something may have fallen into the carbs but I have air filters on them so that should eliminate that problem.

What about a broken ring?  I would think if that was the case then the sound would be constant.

Anything else you can think of?  I just want to make a list and check it all at this point.

if I remember correctly all three bolts had worked loose and the rattling was the gear walking on the cam (I think helix cut made it go to and fro)
my friend Kyle had a motor built by a tweeker shop and had a cam gear loose its teeth and it made a horrible rattle.

[sofaking]

Check your valve springs!!!!!!! Just had the same problem motor had to be torn down. No FUN!

[Brandon Sinclair]

What ended up being the problem with your valve springs?  Thanks. 

I will look at it again tomorrow after work-I am losing my patience and having one of those moments where I want to light the VW on fire and push it down the driveway!  Definately time to step away for the evening.

[Lanny Hussey]

Lifter bores? K-Roc just found this on an engine a few days ago, strange noise at idle.

[Jason Foster]

I had a loose fuel pressure regulator on the package tray give me a strange mettalic rattle that took some searching to track down once.

[sofaking]

valve springs broke. inners and outers fell apart

[Jim Ratto]

valve springs broke. inners and outers fell apart

I had outers break last summer (6!) and yes it made some offensive noises. Easy to check at least....

[Brandon Sinclair]

This mysterious tick is still evading me.  I will try some more detective work when I get off work.  It is difficult when you are not concentrating on one small thing and cannot isolate the noise since it comes and goes so quickly.

This is what I have done:
-Tightened all sheet metal and felt around for loose exhaust and other parts
-Pulled pushrods and rocker assemblies to re-shim and check for rubbing and bent ends.
-Checked tightness on fan which was ok, but I notice the alternator was not smooth turning and that the bearings may be going south-could the alternator be making this noise?

Tonight I will pull off the rockers again and check the following:
-For loose guides
-For broken springs
-For rubbing pushrods (can this even be a possibility since there were no noises before?)

At the back of my mind are those Scat lifters since I have seen so many photos with craters off the face and the loose cam gear bolts Jim suggested.

[rick m]

Is the tick intermittent or constant?  Is it a tick or a ffffttttt, like an air noise?  I had a friend who had heads that did not seat right due to poor quality barrel shims and it got an air leak at the heads that sounded like a tick at idle but stopped under a load when the motor was warmed up.

Rick Mortensen

[Brandon Sinclair]

Rick, it is a intermittent sound.  It will not happen for a few miles then I pull up to a stop sign and I will hear a loud tick.... tick tick tick (much louder then the normal valve train noise), then by the time I get out and go to the engine compartment it will be gone.

Last night I checked the springs, guides and pushrod and pushrod tubes as well and for intake manifold leaks-all looks good.  Of course on the way home about 5 miles down the road the tick re-appeared at a stop light.

Sometimes I think God just has fun Fing with me.

I may pull the pump this weekend to check the cam bolt-running out of ideas.

[John Rayburn]

I had this exact thing happen to me about 20 years ago. Drove me crazy for about a year. Turned out to be a crack in an intake valve at the keeper grooves. Same intermitent ticking.

[Jim Ratto]

Rick, it is a intermittent sound.  It will not happen for a few miles then I pull up to a stop sign and I will hear a loud tick.... tick tick tick (much louder then the normal valve train noise), then by the time I get out and go to the engine compartment it will be gone.

Last night I checked the springs, guides and pushrod and pushrod tubes as well and for intake manifold leaks-all looks good.  Of course on the way home about 5 miles down the road the tick re-appeared at a stop light.

Sometimes I think God just has fun Fing with me.

I may pull the pump this weekend to check the cam bolt-running out of ideas.

if it is THAT intermittent....   I doubt it is cam gear. Can you kind of isolate where the noise is comiing from? And does it have a rhythm when it happens (if it does it would be something rotational), does it speed up with increase of rpm? Or is it just random? (like something getting caught on the edge of some rotating part and getting thrown about)? That would help determine what it is. Either way, I'd be prepared (mentally) to be taking motor out of car to fix it.
good luck dude.

[Fastbrit]

Just turn up the stereo...

[danny gabbard]

Ya I had a ticking noise, Found out it was my clock.

[Rennsurfer]

Just turn up the stereo...

That RULES! HAHAHAHA!!! Good one, Keith.

[rick m]

Keith,

That was funny! Sounds like something we'd do when we were much younger.

Rick M

[Neil Davies]

Just turn up the stereo...

Did that in a friends Mini several years ago - we overtook the front wheel about half a mile later...

[Diederick/DVK]

i had something similar 2 years ago with an engine that didn't work out (several issues). after i took it apart, the heads were examined and it was found that it most likely came from the play of the valve in the valve guides. they were used heads...

anyhow, it may be irrelevant. but my best novice bet would be, if you decide to pull the engine, to examine the heads and especially the valve guides for looseness or play.

good luck!

[besserwisser]

I had a strange ticking sound in my 1680 before going to Hessisch Oldendorf so I took it apart and the problem was the straight cut cam gear that had a very bad fit. When you went down to idle the heavy springs would rock the gear back and forward but when you hit the gas the sound would go away. Changed the cam gear and drove around Europe for two weeks. It was the big gear that was machined with wrong tolerances on the teeth. They were to narrow.

[Jim Ratto]

Brandon? Did you figure it out or did you push your car off a cliff?

[Brandon Sinclair]

HAHA, no but it has crossed my mind to light it on fire and ghost ride it down the street.

I have still been driving it and it continues to make the sound off and on.  After reading all of the suggestions I think I need to take your advice and drop it and break it down.  I have a strange feeling that I will not find anything either-just my luck.  Well at least that means time for a cam change and other engine mods just like any dumb, hardcore VW guy would do.

In the meantime I will run it lightly and take Keiths advice!!!

I will keep you guys posted.

[Brandon Sinclair]

I found out what the ticking sound was last Tuesday, but I wanted to make sure before I posted the results and possibly jinxed myself.  After driving for one week with no more ticking I am confident that this was the problem.

Turns out that the random taping/ticking sound was the result of a stretched out clutch cable.  The cable was hanging on by three strands of wire and really stretched out.  There was also not enough sag in the bowden tube so it was intermittently hitting the firewall body panel.  I replaced the clutch cable and put some washers in to get the right amount of sag and there is no more noise.

Just as a precaution, and since I purchased some new lifters and a cam and want to do a swap, I will drop the engine out in a few weeks and do a tear down and let you know if I find anything else.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions.

[Jim Ratto]

I found out what the ticking sound was last Tuesday, but I wanted to make sure before I posted the results and possibly jinxed myself.  After driving for one week with no more ticking I am confident that this was the problem.

Turns out that the random taping/ticking sound was the result of a stretched out clutch cable.  The cable was hanging on by three strands of wire and really stretched out.  There was also not enough sag in the bowden tube so it was intermittently hitting the firewall body panel.  I replaced the clutch cable and put some washers in to get the right amount of sag and there is no more noise.

Just as a precaution, and since I purchased some new lifters and a cam and want to do a swap, I will drop the engine out in a few weeks and do a tear down and let you know if I find anything else.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions.

 

if it ain't broke.....

good job Brandon,
Jim