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Author Topic: 009 number 3 retard  (Read 3964 times)
andy M.
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« on: October 26, 2009, 23:23:27 pm »

hi all

I have a technical question regarding the installation of aftermarket electronic ignitions in 009 dizzy's.

Now we all know that the 009 has 3 degrees of ignition retard on number 3 cylinder and that this is achieved by the contact breaker cam on the dizzy shaft being ground slightly differently to the other cylinders.

When you install some of the aftermarket ignition systems into a 009 it involves slipping a plastic sleeve over the dizzy cam to act as a trigger for the magnetic pick up, and these seem to fit in any of 4 positions, so does this mean that the number 3 retard is lost when installing these kits?

I dont have one fitted so as to test the theory so do any of you guys know the answer?


Cheers

Andy
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glenn
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 01:31:38 am »

I've tested a few Pertronix and found not of them had a 4 lobes 90 degrees apart. They vary 0-4 degrees... that's just one reason I don't use them.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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JS
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 08:53:40 am »

Does the newer 009's actually have the cyl#3 retard? For sure? I've heard that it's just a myth...
And if you have a doghouse fanhouse, do you need the #3 retard? I thought it was a problem on the older fanhouses were the oilcooler was inside the fanhouse?
Glenn?
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andy M.
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 09:42:06 am »

ahh now is the retard on number 3 for the oil cooler air flow disruption or for the extra length of the exhaust on the number 3 position.

I'm just curious, thats all,  i don't run a 009 in any of my cars these days,

andy
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Jon
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12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008


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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 09:50:45 am »

slipping a plastic sleeve over the dizzy cam to act as a trigger for the magnetic pick up, and these seem to fit in any of 4 positions, so does this mean that the number 3 retard is lost when installing these kits?

The only way the electronic ignition can do the retard is by moving one of the trigger points. So if it fits in all 4 positions it's pretty safe to say that it doesn't incorporate a retard for cylinder number 3.

JS: You can spot the lack of symmetry just by looking at the shaft, and a slide caliper makes it real easy to see.  
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andy M.
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 10:16:19 am »

thats what i thought too, but it's nice to get some confirmation of my musings,

andy
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glenn
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 10:58:30 am »

Does the newer 009's actually have the cyl#3 retard? For sure? I've heard that it's just a myth...
And if you have a doghouse fanhouse, do you need the #3 retard? I thought it was a problem on the older fanhouses were the oilcooler was inside the fanhouse?
Glenn?
I don't know about the aftermarket OO9 clones since I don't own any or work on them.

The Bosch 010 and 019 do not have a #3 retard and they run fine on all engines.... stock or performance.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Restored Bosch Cast Iron Distributors

www.DasVolks.com
Long Island's Aircooled Club
Rasser
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 17:45:46 pm »

This is what my original volkswagen service manual says:

Note:  from 3rd August 1964, Chassis No. 115000001, Engine No. 8788071, all VW engines are fitted with modified distributors. The breaker cam lobe which controls the firing point of No. 3 cylinder is offset 2 distributor shaft degrees in the retarded direction.  (Thatīs 4 crankshaft degrees)
1,4,3,2 cylinder - 0, 90, 182, 270 degrees


I know this doesnīt answer specific questions in this thread, but it might be helpfull anyway.

Rasmus
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 19:14:10 pm by Rasser » Logged

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