a 88x74 project that needs opinions hehe

[Jim Ratto]

when SODA went to 74 stroke (from 69mm) he went to Web 86B with 1.5 rockers. The Web 110 was in the 1679.
The 120 will slog along in traffic with the best of them. Don't worry.

[RFbuilt]

sorry 3rd world country (brain) working

the 120 will slog along in traffic with the rest of them =  good thing? hahahhaha



im actually more worried with longevity, be it valvetrain (springs and ret)  pushrod  lifter bores etc

if it lasts for 1 year  im happy.. 1yr is enough reason to refresh the motor LOL

i cover about 15,000-17,000 km  in 5months

not sure how much or less that is  over there in the sunny side  jim?

[Jim Ratto]

I consider the W120 a "daily driver cam" with swivel feet, good dual springs, ground keepers, chromo pushrods, and geometry set correctly, it will live a long life. Use a good oil, make sure it is kept no hotter than 200F, you will have nothing to worry about.
If you had bigger Webers instead of Kadrons you could go Engle 125

[RFbuilt]

ahhh thats what i totally forgot!! swivel feet

care to direct me to a good set on those?


yes sir..  once assembly goes underway.. this place is where its at.. il document and all

including mishaps and potential troubles.. hahaha  i anticipate them..

not sure if id start a new thread for the head porting/refreshing alone..

what everyone thinks? 

thank you Jim.. most valuable opinions indeed!!!

[RFbuilt]

on a sidenote..

mimd if u can pm me.. on how the range or ballpark figure is.. for 44idf's  in ur area jim? 

[RFbuilt]

just checking..

are these the good BP's ?

im asuming theyre the 4047 ones.. whats the diff vs the 4046?

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12%2D4016%2D11

[Diederick/DVK]

not quite sure dude, if i remember correctly 4047-10 are chevy springs. which would be too stiff for your application.
but on the other hand this might be a kit with 4046 springs. best to ask the vendors, and let's hope they know what they're selling 
i got mine from veedub, though they might not (at least were not) listed on their website they had them in stock.

[Torben Alstrup]

The Web 110 has LESS problems with premature wear than the W120. The work range is about the same. Personally I definitely prefer the Web because it runs less noisy. But the wear has a good deal to do with choice of lifters too. Its not "just" cam related.
Use CB/Scat dual springs. No problem.
As for swvel feets, I use the Porsche style from CB on most engines, apart from the REALLY aggressive ones. Then I step up to Genuine Porsche.
T

[RFbuilt]

deed -  looking at their listing, the other 4046-10 i think is the chevy spring style ones of BP
           not the 4047 ones i linked no? 

torben -  thank you for the input, unfortunately i have the cams handy already so the worry is what spring/retainer set to go with
             the CB duals sound nice, although way cheaper than the BP counterpart
             im worried or should i say, hope to see more vouches for this, cuz it is indeed cheaper, and id like to think
             im not opting for that option for the sole reason that it is cheaper 

[Diederick/DVK]

i'm not sure nothing is wrong with CB dual springs, they come with their CNC heads and I'm sure many that run those heads run the springs that come with.

[Jim Ratto]

The Bugpack 4046's are a thinner wire diam than the 4047, gives you more travel before coil bind. I use their 4046's religously, as the inner / outer springs are a nice interference fit. Sometimes the Scat springs were very loose. I like the inner and outers to be an interference fit. I've had Scat's that wouldn't lift like the Bugpacks either.
Never used CB, sorry don't know anything about them. I know the quality of the 4046's is very high. I've used Berg, Scat, Engle along with Bugpack and I like the Bugpacks best in last 19 years.

[RFbuilt]

good stuff jim!   so the 4046-10  are the chevy style no?

so 4046 is what we need (me)...  dang  got to find those.. looks like veedub's the only place 

i was feeling the same thing on CB's not saying theyre bad obviously ive never tried them

deed- ur right.. its on their cnc heads, again not talkin bad about them but.. seeing a 40x35.5 cnc ported head with singles..
         means one thing.. when they do carry the duals and not put it in some packaged heads
         but thats just me.. 

          one day il try these,    for now.. the 4046 sounds good.. 

[RFbuilt]

just double checked,

as deed mentioned , in vwparts.net/veedubparts

the 4046-10 are the chevy style springs (Jim is this the one ur suggesting)

their 4047-10 are also available

oddly enough cip1 has  the bugpack kits
but seeing the 0.156" outrer spring = 3.962mm 

makes it the 4047 kits? 


sigh... 

[Jim Ratto]

4046

http://www.bugpack.com/

[RFbuilt]

gotcha jim!

i did check bugpack's site bfor for the 4046

so it seems  theyre the "chevy" style springs indeed,


quick question though , wouldnt it be overkill for an engle 120 with 35.5x32mm valve head? and kadrons to boot hehe

[Jim Ratto]

they are not Chevy
they are std diameter dual springs w/ .156 wire

[RFbuilt]

hahaha stupid me  i hate the number 10  , being the 4060-10 LOL

reread with out my beer goggles (12midnight here lol)

it says for the 4046

"The #4046 features .156 diameter outers and will lift to .630. "

so its def the kits i linked from CIP1 

awesome!  me order soon soon!

[TexasTom]

I think I see the problem here ...

4046 = hi-rev dual spring applications.

4046-10 = Chevy dual spring applications.

The '-10' designation is the detail/difference between stock outside diameter and the Chevy size springs.

[RFbuilt]

thanks tom!!

ur right.. and i feel like smacking myself on the head..

-10  sucks haha


got it now fo sho,

prob is im not in the U.S  so i rely on online vendors.. so  i think i cant buy direct from BP  hence the reason im trying to be sure and asking toooooo many questions!

[RFbuilt]

ok the spring issue/choice is done and dusted


goin with the 4046 BP springs ,chromo ret. , keepers  set  (.156" wire outer)

,

with the above discussions and all,

how's everyone's thoughts on 1 5/8 merged header?

or 1 1/2 is better? 

would like sumthing where theres room to grow thats why i thought of the 1 5/8

example :  in the future from kadrons , goin to weber IR set ups..  just bolting em on etc

[RFbuilt]

while in the process of completing the parts for the 88x74 
the other beetle is also needing a rebuild

while ive no plans in making it a screamer,  a 1979 (88x69) is in plans hihihi

has hard as the dp heads to find here, (lucky me the 88x74 has a set i found for it waiting to be massaged)


i noticed a place local to me.. has an 040 head and a 311 head , would give it to me for free,

now i wonder, provided that, it would have its seats replaced, bronze racing valveguides installed and ported + valvejob done to it..

is it usable? an 040 and a 311 on an engine? aka different castings

i asume it is fine.. provided that the "portwork" can make the two heads flow the same or work the same...

so..  any opinions guys?

[RFbuilt]

ok    so i think i got things a little sorted , better than when i started the thread

plan of attack is now the ff:

1800cc

113 casting DP head -   35.5x32 stocker valves, ported (clean up) tri angle valvejob
springs                    -   Bugpack dual springs/chromo ret. and keepers set (4046 springs)
cam                        -   Engle w-120  , 0.435" lift , 294* adv. duration , 253* @ 0.050
Rockers                   -   vw 1.1:1 w/ cb elephant feets (911 clone) on Solid shafts

crank                      -  74mm  chromo
p/c                         -  88mm Machine in sets , with bases turned down to work on a stock 85.5 case opening
Rods                       -  CB Unitech rods 5.4" length ( supposedly clearanced for strokers ) prolly clearance the case lesser
Lifters                     -  Bugpack 4060-10  racing lifters (as advised by Jim/theone)
pushrods                 -  Manton 0.053"  pushrods, uncut
carburetion              -  Kadron dual 40's prepped by Art T. of ACE
exhaust                   - 1 1/2 Bugpack merged header
cooling                    -  late model doghouse with german tin (im trying to complete the tins, coming off a 1302)

case  = dual relief 1970 superbeetle origin,  gotta drill and tap for ff
           blue printed 26mm pump by the book hehe

compression,  i was thinking around 9.2:1  ish    static

sounds good?

now...   ordering... thats the fun part!!

[Diederick/DVK]

sounds good, have fun!!

are you using the 88s from Chico? i figured that those turned bases would more or less pose the same problems as slip-in 88s. but that's only my guessing...

[Udo]

Good choice to use the 113 original heads ..

udo

[RFbuilt]

yeah those ones..

good thought there died,  although im on the other side of thinking..

just like most turned down 94s , its ok at the base?  

unlike the thinwall 88s  which are thin from slip in bases to slip in tops (head side) ?


i missed out the 60s 70s 80s

hahaha sumthing with this 88mm's that i like...  and wana use / try / do haha

[RFbuilt]

Good choice to use the 113 original heads ..

udo

wow thanks Udo,

sumthing good with the 113?  i thought the good ones wer the type 3 311s ?  much like what Fumio liked also?

i did thought they wer 040s  since i thought they wer off a super beetle LOL

til i cleaned them hehe

[Udo]

113 have a good casting too but no aluminium around the intake guide inside the port. I only use them with single springs . As i wrote down i would use hd single springs with your combo.

Udo

[RFbuilt]

awwww yeah

but are they bad when using dual springs (after machining the bosses on th spring bases) ?

wait il check the heads , though its midnight right now

but checking them earlier, the exhaust ports, had meaty aluminum around the valveguide

[Diederick/DVK]

midnight? where you located, asia?

[RFbuilt]

113 have a good casting too but no aluminium around the intake guide inside the port. I only use them with single springs . As i wrote down i would use hd single springs with your combo.

Udo

also interesting tidbit on that intake port u mention (il go to the garage now)  to check it.. though your right..

the combo has changed from engle w110 to engle w120  thus the need to for the bugpack duals

any insight as to why u only use the 113 heads with single springs Udo?