Rancho Pro-Street gearbox

[mcmscott]

And then you get charged for a core
[/q
uote]   Iwould NEVER remove some ones parts and sell them something infearear, thats plain dis honest business, if someone wants to upgrade from what they have of course they have to pay for it or provide a core that has needed parts in it, but never remove someones better parts, that is stealing plain and simple

[besserwisser]

When i build a gearbox for a customer they usually have to supply three cores to build a good streetdriven gearbox. If they plan to do burnouts and go down the strip I always advice them to get aftermarket gears (Weddle). But if you know how to set up youre car and and preload the gearbox before take of you can race with a 3.78 first if the gearbox is mounted solid in the car. Sad to say that a lot of crashed gearboxes comes from wheelhop and pourly set up suspension. Dont think you can just get a 3.78 gearbox and run it down the dragstrip. The gearbox needs to be tighten up and with that the noiselevel goes up. Nobody thinks that a highperformance motor will run forever so why should a gearbox built for 50hp be bulletprof when you drop the clutch at 6000rpm. Its the old dilemma of having the cake and eat it too. Gearboxes for dragcars often use four gears ín the same space of three in an original gearbox so highway driving with a gearbox for racing is no picnic. I do build gearboxes for racing using only three gears and the fourth is for highwaydriving. I see a lot of people spending a fortune on their motor but when it comes to the gearbox they try to get away with some budget version. There is no free lunch so my advice is before you buy a gearbox talk to people who have tried racing with standard gearboxes. Last SCC i think 9 boxes were broken by sunday.Spend the money and cry once.

[Bruce]

I see a lot of people spending a fortune on their motor but when it comes to the gearbox they try to get away with some budget version.

I can't count the number of times I've seen guys put over $10k into an engine.  Then they whine about facing a $2k gearbox that will take the punishment.

[Bruce]

 Iwould NEVER remove some ones parts and sell them something infearear, thats plain dis honest business, if someone wants to upgrade from what they have of course they have to pay for it or provide a core that has needed parts in it, but never remove someones better parts, that is stealing plain and simple

Sometimes it costs extra to give you what you want, and at the same time to let you keep what's in your core.  For example, let's say you have around 100hp and you're not going to the track ever.  You provide a core that has a 4.12 R&P with the stronger 9 tooth mainshaft, but you also want proper freeway gearing.  That means you need a .89 fourth gear.  In order to do that, you have to pay extra for a relatively rare 002 type .89 to fit the splined mainshaft, or pay extra to modify the mainshaft.  OR.... the trans builder just sticks in a common early 10 tooth mainshaft with an early 113 type .89 at no charge since you don't have enough hp to break it.

You may think I'm a dishonest type for suggesting the above.  If I was faced with the scenario, I would discuss it with the customer first and get an agreement.  So far this has NEVER happened to me.  Everyone wants to bring me a POS core then wants the world out of it.

Spend a day at one of the SoCal trans builders.  You will learn that what you think might be inside a gearbox isn't.  If you have a SSC core and supply it for your build because you want the 3.88 R&P, and the 9 tooth mainshaft, you might not get what you want.  That's because the vast majority of cores in Cali have been rebuilt more than once.  It is RARE for them to get a core that hasn't been opened up before.  In other words, it is very likely your SSC has a 4.12 and a 10 tooth mainshaft.

[mcmscott]

I've built a box for a very well known vw racer(magazine cover car) that ran full season with NO maintnence, when asked how much money he had in his crank alone the reply was 3k, when told a weddle r-p cost x-amount he about had a fit because the US gear was 3 times less, and still if I was to remove someones 3.78 mainshaft (because I didn't know how to use a 113 style 4'th on a 002 mainshaft, which is extremely easy)it would still be stealing from the customer,which I will not do.

[Bruce]

... if I was to remove someones 3.78 mainshaft (because I didn't know how to use a 113 style 4'th on a 002 mainshaft, which is extremely easy)it would still be stealing from the customer,which I will not do.

Believe me, I know how to modify early 113 gears to work on a splined mainshaft.  The modifications don't happen for free.  If the customer doesn't want to pay for it, AND he's got no hp, swapping the mainshaft is the way to go. 
9 tooth mainshafts aren't that valuable.  The last time I bought a modified 9 tooth mainshaft, I was charged $7 for the core.  I really don't think it's a big deal to "steal" a $7 part.

[mcmscott]

Stealing is stealing

[richie]

Ok,I have been following this for a while and as a customer there is something I dont get.

If I ask my gearbox builder to build me a new gearbox and what will it cost,then he replys  $XXX and you need to supply 2 cores,then that is what it costs,agreed?

So what he does with my cores is up to him as long as I get what I asked for,agreed? so how is it stealing when some of the parts left from my cores as usuable and he keeps them? the deal was completed as agreed so the rest is irrelervant.


cheers richie,uk

[181]

Well I see that my innocent thread went sideways.

[mcmscott]

If you give me 2 cores that have 380 first gears and want a 378, you still get charged a core, however if you supply a 378 core and want a "plus" gear box they charge additional, that is stealing, as a trans builder I always try to give my customer the best he provides a core for, example...customer wants a "pro street" gear box and supplys a late core, he will recieve a 378 first,091 mainshaft brg,long tooth slider on 3-4,5mm 3-4 fork at no added cost. The whole taking out these parts as he supplied to you is stealing plain and simple. the problem is to many customers dont know what they have and unscrupuless bussiness take advantage of that, I simply will not and don't get why others do that 

[Bruce]

If you build a gearbox for a customer with close ratio gears, do you give him the unused stock gears in a bag along with the finished gearbox?

[mcmscott]

Yes

[Bruce]

What for?

[RMS Boxer Service]

Just because a transmission is labeled "Pro" doesn't mean its bullet proff. Check the Bill Of Materials before ordering a transmission or start saying transmission builders are stealing. Just because you supply him with a core with 3,78 gear doesn't mean the transmission  builder have to supply you with a transmission with a 3.78 gear, unless you ordered it..... Why pay more if you supplied him with a 3,78 core??  Do you know if that core ways any good or the 3,78 was missing a teeth or have cracks??? Chances are that your core are no good, keep in mind those transmissions are 35+ years old. The transmission builder trys to do the best for you and still make a living.


/Rolf

[benssp]

Yes

What about the old oil? do you 'steal' that?

[mcmscott]

I always offer old parts back, and always build the best combination I can with the core provided, If the customer wants something thats not provided they get charged for it, and waste oil is considerd hazerdus waste and some builders will charge to get rid of it

[besserwisser]

The reason for taking cores as part of the build is that if you dont you will run out of parts pretty quick. And believe me a lot of cores are just junk. When they supply three gearboxes I take the best parts out of theese three and make a good gearbox with the ratios agreed on. After throwing away all the worn parts I´m left with two 4.37 rp and a lot of weak unusable gearratios. The thing with cores and corecharges have been a thing with VW since the mid 60´s and the reason why we still can by modified and rebuilt parts. When mcmscott calls something that has made the vw scene live for so long stealing its just plain silly. It also makes me wonder where mcmscott gets the parts that the customer did not provide. And to quote Rolf I am trying to make a living building gearboxes which if I do is a win -win situation for me and my customers. One other thing to consider is that sometimes a customer wants his gearbox the following weekend. I wont have the time to go through his cores so I will build him a gearbox with parts on the shelf. A much appreciated service during the VW season. I have never had any complaints about cores or gearratios being kept by me. In fact most reasonable people find it comforting to know a new gearbox is only a phonecall away.

[ranchoparts]

Hi MCMSCOTT

I just want to let you know that Rancho gives back all unused parts when Customers supply the Core. Its there Core and its there
parts. SO WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM!! Don't you have something better to do

Mike Herbert

P.S. I don't hide behind a user Name either.   

[mcmscott]

I applaude you for your honnesty to your customers, as that is the way it should be, also my name is Scott, mcm is an abreviation I don't see how that is hiding behind a screen name , and I have no problem

[ranchoparts]

I applaude you for your honnesty to your customers, as that is the way it should be, also my name is Scott, mcm is an abreviation I don't see how that is hiding behind a screen name , and I have no problem

So who are you accusing of Stealing! Sounds like a problem to Me.  You know who I am, So who are You?

Mike Herbert

[Diederick/DVK]

and that's yet another lovely contribution of our overseas fellow enthusiast. an innocent question at that start of this thread that turned into a yankee cat fight. nicely done!

i believe this thread was about clarifying different gears not clarifying divergent opinions. 

[181]

This thread should be locked, i already got the answer. Thanks to all who keep The Lounge the best place for VWs on the internet.

[ranchoparts]

Stealing is stealing

Sorry Guy's. But a statement like this is kind of harsh and not received very well.

Mike     

[Bruce]

and that's yet another lovely contribution of our overseas fellow enthusiast. an innocent question at that start of this thread that turned into a yankee cat fight. nicely done!

When you accuse someone of THEFT, you're gonna get a reaction.  There wouldn't have been a "yankee cat fight" if the accusation wasn't made in the first place.

[58vw]

i dont think geographic location has anything to do with what has transpired between fellow enthusiast's.

[henk]

hallo,

so wich parts are used then from a stock gearbox?
if i buy a empty rancho core and build a stock gearbox over in it an add HD sidecovers and a super diff.
do i have then a good gearbox,or do i see this to simpel?
and is this a waste of money and should i better buy a complete rancho?

henk!!!

[nicolas]

wow!

somehow there is some really interesting information in this post. i hope this somehow can be saved.

the only thing i could 'add' is that it rained more then half a day on saturday at SCC this year. 

[mcmscott]

Let me start by appoligizing for brash statements as the "stealing is stealing" statement was made as a general statement and not pointed towawds any one or any company, my only point I was trying to make was a named gearbox from builder X will be different from builder Z, thats it, I'm sorry this informative thread got out of hand, and the whole stiring the pot comment was in joking manner Also I have been known to say things and mean something different, so I apoligize again for any missunderstanding, no problem here and no cat fight

[Jesse/DVK]

hallo,

so wich parts are used then from a stock gearbox?
if i buy a empty rancho core and build a stock gearbox over in it an add HD sidecovers and a super diff.
do i have then a good gearbox,or do i see this to simpel?
and is this a waste of money and should i better buy a complete rancho?

henk!!!

Good questions Henk!

[Jon]

it rained more then half a day on saturday at SCC this year. 

And that's our only excuse for such a poor number...