How much caster need a fast drag VW Beetle?

[Jon]

used the bearings as a second pair of caster shims, mexican style ...

I have seen this suggested in old official VW shop literature... so it's actually german style! 

[Fasterbrit]

Hi all. I run a stock steering box with a 1" cro-mo link bar between the two spindles and a long cro-mo bar running back to the steering box. I believe this is referred to as the jcl method, but I don't subscribe to the 'short' bar theory as it will be of no benefit. I use 1/2" unf rose joints on all links and have rose joint spacers between where the two  bars meet at the near side spindle (rhd car). I run two caster shims and a 4 inch narrowed beam.

One thing worth pointing out is that on stock type pans you will need to clearance the top of the floorpan tunnel and you will also need to modify the bottom of the fuel tank. To confirm just how well this setup works I deed this 'jcl' mod to a customer's car when I did a full air ride system. I built a 7" narrowed beam and sectioned the top of the pan, the bottom of the fuel tank and had to roll the lips of the inner arches. The car drove so well at any height and towed an Eriba Puck from Cornwall to Bad Camberg a d Euro Bug In all at 55 - 60 mph. It was arrow straight! How do I know it drove so well? I followed it for about 1,000 miles!

I can also confirm that the toe change from fully dropped to fully up on air is negligable. This is without doubt the best mod you can do to the front of your car without breaking the bank. My race car runs 135 mph in the quarter and is arrow straight, too!

[Dave Rosique]

used the bearings as a second pair of caster shims, mexican style ...

I have seen this suggested in old official VW shop literature... so it's actually german style! 

Been there and done that... it was 70's style for me

[Torben Alstrup]

A customer of mine went a different route, which i first was rather offended by, but after a couple of thoughts turned on a dime on. - He was doing a body off restoration. And in that process he also replaced the frame head. when doing that, he tilted the frame head upwards/backwards so the mounting for the front beam was in a 13 degree angle. Then fabricated new mounts for the body hook ups. The result is a car that is lowered approx. 2" with dropspindles on a stock beam, AND has a built in 8 - 9 degree caster with the  nose pointing slightly down. It sports a 150 hp 2,1. I have been driving it on several occasions and I must say it handles beautiful even at high speed. I have asked myself why "nobody" has done this before/more, but prudency might get into the picture somewhere.   I´m seriusly considering doing this mod to my own Mex to get rid of the stacked caster shims.
T

[tikimadness]

Hey Torben I did exactly the same with my car

Micheael

[kev d]

Sorry ive not got a picture of my setup, but ive drawn the tie rods on your picture for you. i had to clearance the frame head to allow the wheels to drop on the launch.

Oh and i dont use a steering damper.

This is also the setup on the Lee Leighton oval, seems to have worked well on it
Cheers,
Kev

[Kaferdog]

I found this pic ...!

[jick]

interesting stuff......how deep a recess would be needed on the framehead....this is something i should do on my 59 before the body goes back on the pan next month.

[Fasterbrit]

The recess depth depends on factors such as how low you run the car and whether you run drop spindles or not. One some setups you might not even need to clearance anything. It would be best to mock up your setup and see. Then work through the suspension and steering  angles and see if you need to clearance anything. You may just need judicious use of a ball pein hammer to tap the top of the framehead tunnel down ever so slightly. Tank clearancing is only necessary on drastically lowered cars. 

[jick]

cool, thanks Matt......helpful stuff,..seeing as i dont run drop spindles and my car isnt super-low maybe i'll be ok.....i was thinking that the framehead would need a piece removing and welding up....but if its just a bit of hammer work then thats easily done with the body in place. i dont need to worry about the fuel tank as i have an Eelco one and it's mounted  higher than a stock one.
thanks again....jick

[ROJO]

Hello,

Here some info from my car since i started the threat.

The Car is almost ready for racing. Last week i made a little test run. I almost shit in my pants. In third gear the front wheels suddenly stated to shake very violence. it only stopped when i braked the car to stop.
Reasons for this shaking:
- unbalance in the front wheels (i took off some ballance weights from the inside rim because it was hitting the tosion arms)
- way to much caster > 14 deg (i solved this by putting a set of castershims under the upper torsionbeam)
- the car was not aligned
To day a spend half a day on a wheel alignment rig. I discovered that it was verry difficult to set the right camber and toe-in. Because of the high caster angel (11 deg) the camber changes a lot wenn the wheels are turning a bit.
I changed the position of the steering gearbox to correct the bumpsteer effect. I can't wait to test the car again but it's now to wet outside. I hope that the car handels better than the first test run. When erverything works ok i go to Bitburg next week.
Hopefully i get used to the car quickly so i be ready for first race in Drachten.

Robert

[Phil Norman]

Been having some handling issues on the track recently myself and was thinking of the best ways to sort it....some great info on here 

[ROJO]

Update:

I made a new test drive. The steering was still not ok. I mounted the steering damper back and the car run perfect now.

@Martin: taking the steering damper off works not for me.

Next week i hope i can make some test runs to setup the car and clutch.

[fahrvergnugen]

Update:

I made a new test drive. The steering was still not ok. I mounted the steering damper back and the car run perfect now.

@Martin: taking the steering damper off works not for me.

Next week i hope i can make some test runs to setup the car and clutch.

And................how did you do?

Paul.

[dangerous]

Hello,

Here some info from my car since i started the threat.

The Car is almost ready for racing. Last week i made a little test run. I almost shit in my pants. In third gear the front wheels suddenly stated to shake very violence. it only stopped when i braked the car to stop.
Reasons for this shaking:
- unbalance in the front wheels (i took off some ballance weights from the inside rim because it was hitting the tosion arms)
- way to much caster > 14 deg (i solved this by putting a set of castershims under the upper torsionbeam)
- the car was not aligned
To day a spend half a day on a wheel alignment rig. I discovered that it was verry difficult to set the right camber and toe-in. Because of the high caster angel (11 deg) the camber changes a lot wenn the wheels are turning a bit.
I changed the position of the steering gearbox to correct the bumpsteer effect. I can't wait to test the car again but it's now to wet outside. I hope that the car handels better than the first test run. When erverything works ok i go to Bitburg next week.
Hopefully i get used to the car quickly so i be ready for first race in Drachten.

Robert

Some years ago I changed my front wheels  to some that required a narrowed beam to help clearance.
Because the steering axis was now inboard of the tyre patch, it had a very bad low speed shimmy.
Replacing the damper helped, but in the long term, putting the tyre back onto the point on the ground
where the steering(king pin axis) pivots should correct things.
Regarding caster, my car has just one thin shim behind the beam,
and was very stable at 147mph.
rear alignment was the bigest improvement for high speed stability in my case.

[ROJO]

Hi Paul,

Made only 4 runs but the car handles perfect now. I ended the day with a 9,66 @ 145 mph. More runs where not necessary because the track at Drachten next week is totally differend.
To day i finished the rear wing. I hope this improves the handling more.

Robert

[BeetleBug]

Hello,

Here some info from my car since i started the threat.

The Car is almost ready for racing. Last week i made a little test run. I almost shit in my pants. In third gear the front wheels suddenly stated to shake very violence. it only stopped when i braked the car to stop.
Reasons for this shaking:
- unbalance in the front wheels (i took off some ballance weights from the inside rim because it was hitting the tosion arms)
- way to much caster > 14 deg (i solved this by putting a set of castershims under the upper torsionbeam)
- the car was not aligned
To day a spend half a day on a wheel alignment rig. I discovered that it was verry difficult to set the right camber and toe-in. Because of the high caster angel (11 deg) the camber changes a lot wenn the wheels are turning a bit.
I changed the position of the steering gearbox to correct the bumpsteer effect. I can't wait to test the car again but it's now to wet outside. I hope that the car handels better than the first test run. When erverything works ok i go to Bitburg next week.
Hopefully i get used to the car quickly so i be ready for first race in Drachten.

Robert

Some years ago I changed my front wheels  to some that required a narrowed beam to help clearance.
Because the steering axis was now inboard of the tyre patch, it had a very bad low speed shimmy.
Replacing the damper helped, but in the long term, putting the tyre back onto the point on the ground
where the steering(king pin axis) pivots should correct things.
Regarding caster, my car has just one thin shim behind the beam,
and was very stable at 147mph.
rear alignment was the bigest improvement for high speed stability in my case.

Thanks,

How did you allign your rear wheels to improve high speed stability? And what is your rear end set up?

Best rgs
BB

[dangerous]

My rear suspension was stock IRS, with bigger tortion bars.
I lowered the car slightly and added a little toe in.(about 3mm total at ride height)
Main thing was that the toe was equal on both sides,
and centered with the car centre line.(and front wheels)

[Bewitched666]

See you at drachten Robert

[Garrick Clark]

Hi guys.
I'm planning on going the JCL route on my bug and was thinking what type of tube i would need to get.Diameter,thickness,etc and who sells it in the uk.


Thanks.