Faster, Stronger, Harder.....

[FDK/mrpedrini]

 For about two months ago i build my first stroker engine (2017cc). Build and break in was succesfully, and drives great too... max 7000 RPM. Big difference compared to my 1600cc equiped Kadron motor... Really got into it now and want to do some upgrades to get some more power out of it.... My own tought's are buying a IDF upgrade kit (or should i swap for IDA'S?) and maby swap the cam?? But wat grind?? Main goal is to keep it a fast road car....but capable of doing some drag racing It's mounted to an original AT 8:31 gearbox  (IRS), need to change that in the futere for a stronger piece...

Please give me your thought's and idea's

Maby i'll ask santa some of your adviced parts.....

Happy holidays!!! Dennis.....

the parts list contains following:
· As 41 case, full flow, 8mm studs.
· 78,4 mm CB performance crank
· Lightened flywheel (SCAT chromoly)
· Daikin super street disc.
· Gene Berg equalizer pulley.
· 90,5 cilinders (short).
· 9:1 comp ratio.
· Teflon buttons.
· CB performance race rods (H beam) 5400 (stock length).
· 043 heads (SCAT) with 35.5/40 mm valves (home ported oval shape).
· Gene Berg dual valve springs.
· SCAT chromoly retainers.
· 44IDF Webers
· Gene Berg linkage.
· Webcam W 218 (276’ duration).
· SCAT lube a lobe lifters.
· Double trust cam bearings.
· CSP pushrod tubes.
· Gene Berg chromoly pushrods.
· Gene Berg solid rocker shaft.
· 1:1.1 rockers
· 26 mm high performance pump(GENE BERG).
· Gene Berg oil pump cover with pressure relief.
· 3.5 quart oilsump (GENE BERG).
· CB performance straigt cut timing gears.
· Gene Berg swivel feet screws.
· CB performance merged header (41 mm).
· Stainles steel Mondo muffler.
· Bosch 010 dizzy!!!!
· Bosch bleu coil.

[gizago]

A bump in compression and a set of ratio rockers wouldnt hurt. Nice looking car.

[Taylor]

No need to buy the update kit just put some bigger vents in it.

[Zach Gomulka]

Put in a set of 94's and let the compression come up!

Seriously though, you've had it on the road for two months! Tune it and enjoy it!

[Jim Ratto]

sounds like a solid driver. Only thing that looks out of place is the 218 Web cam. I like that cam for under 1800cc mild engines. With the increased displacement you have the Engle 125 would suit your engine better.

[FDK/mrpedrini]

sounds like a solid driver. Only thing that looks out of place is the 218 Web cam. I like that cam for under 1800cc mild engines. With the increased displacement you have the Engle 125 would suit your engine better.

Jim,can you tell something about the engine caracteristic with the Engle 125 cam? My engine rev´s a bit like my old kadron equipped 1600... but goes till 7000 rpm....I can cruise it slowly....and you´ll won´t notice it´s a stroker.... cam comes in about 2500 rpm.

[Jim Ratto]

I'm surprised the 218 takes the revs to 7000.
You have some awesome heads.

The 218 in my opinion is like a VZ15, generous lift, short duration. Good for torque and crisp throttle repsonse. The 125 runs strong well, from 2800 or so to 7000 or so depending on cc, heads, carbs.

I used 218 in a well built 1776 with stock valved ported 040 heads, 40IDFs with 32mm vents. Very strong to 6000.

[FDK/mrpedrini]

I'm surprised the 218 takes the revs to 7000.
You have some awesome heads.

The 218 in my opinion is like a VZ15, generous lift, short duration. Good for torque and crisp throttle repsonse. The 125 runs strong well, from 2800 or so to 7000 or so depending on cc, heads, carbs.

I used 218 in a well built 1776 with stock valved ported 040 heads, 40IDFs with 32mm vents. Very strong to 6000.

Yeah, i didn't expected that myself that it would rev to 7000.... . Heads are nothing special to me... 043's from Scat...When i bought them they are verry rough round ports...they only were machined 1/2 inch from the valve. I made oval ports out of it....(second set of heads that i ported).. And i made the exhaust ports slightly bigger...but not extreme. combustion chambers look the same like org 1600... , they were 54 cc. 40/35,5 valves... It's a torqkey engine, but not as i espected from a stroker...Maybe the gearbox is too long....and also have 205/70/15 tires. killer on the autobahn... 180 km/h is not a big issue... I just would like to give it some more trottle respons.....

[Brandon Sinclair]

You can also get 94MM cylinders which have been cut down so that they fit your case opening (may save you some machine work).

[Corally]

Hey Dennis, Gideon here!

I'd go with a higher compression ratio, bigger cam and a change in carburetors. It's down to what kind of engine you want. There are plenty of possibilities for sure. You could make it a quite aggressive motor by fitting a wild cam and some big carburetors. But you would probably give in on low rpm torque. I'll follow the topic!

[Jim Ratto]

you might want to start with basics if it is throttle resonse you're after. Meaning initial ignition advance, venturi size, jets.

[FDK/mrpedrini]

Hey Dennis, Gideon here!

I'd go with a higher compression ratio, bigger cam and a change in carburetors. It's down to what kind of engine you want. There are plenty of possibilities for sure. You could make it a quite aggressive motor by fitting a wild cam and some big carburetors. But you would probably give in on low rpm torque. I'll follow the topic!

Hi Gideon...! found your way to the lounge i see .. Nice to read your engine topic!  I know what can be done to make it an agressive motor...but that's not what i'm after...Just looking for some small changes...to get some more out of it but still street driveable and reliable. Just want to learn from others experiances, especially about camchoice.. Don't think that i'll change the comp ratio... because 9:1 is best choice for street use.. (what i read about it). My plan is to take apart the engine next summer to change the cam for something wilder...(thinking about Jim's thoughts Engle w 125) or maybe w120.

[FDK/mrpedrini]

you might want to start with basics if it is throttle resonse you're after. Meaning initial ignition advance, venturi size, jets.

Wat venturi's do you recomend Jim?.... 010 timing set @ 10 deg before TDC... thanks fot the advice!!

[FDK/mrpedrini]

You can also get 94MM cylinders which have been cut down so that they fit your case opening (may save you some machine work).

I think i'll keep the 90,5 cause i feel confident about the thickness of the cyinders...

[DKK Ted]

I'm surprised the 218 takes the revs to 7000.
You have some awesome heads.

The 218 in my opinion is like a VZ15, generous lift, short duration. Good for torque and crisp throttle repsonse. The 125 runs strong well, from 2800 or so to 7000 or so depending on cc, heads, carbs.

I used 218 in a well built 1776 with stock valved ported 040 heads, 40IDFs with 32mm vents. Very strong to 6000.

I agree with Jim. The E125 is a very strong street cam, ran that cam myself, love it. Thinking of putting that cam in 2303 engine that is in my car now when I swap motors with the new motor, another 2303, but with balls. I would run some 1.25 rockers on that E125. Will be awesome!

[FDK/mrpedrini]

I'm surprised the 218 takes the revs to 7000.
You have some awesome heads.

The 218 in my opinion is like a VZ15, generous lift, short duration. Good for torque and crisp throttle repsonse. The 125 runs strong well, from 2800 or so to 7000 or so depending on cc, heads, carbs.

I used 218 in a well built 1776 with stock valved ported 040 heads, 40IDFs with 32mm vents. Very strong to 6000.

I agree with Jim. The E125 is a very strong street cam, ran that cam myself, love it. Thinking of putting that cam in 2303 engine that is in my car now when I swap motors with the new motor, another 2303, but with balls. I would run some 1.25 rockers on that E125. Will be awesome!

Sounds pretty nice to me ....I'm just worried how the engine will respond in the 1500 till 2500 rpm range . What lifters are you going to use with the W125???

[Zach Gomulka]

You can also get 94MM cylinders which have been cut down so that they fit your case opening (may save you some machine work).

I think i'll keep the 90,5 cause i feel confident about the thickness of the cyinders...

Have you ever measured the difference? I have, and it's nothing to worry about!

[FDK/mrpedrini]

You can also get 94MM cylinders which have been cut down so that they fit your case opening (may save you some machine work).

I think i'll keep the 90,5 cause i feel confident about the thickness of the cyinders...

Have you ever measured the difference? I have, and it's nothing to worry about!

Jep i know.... just being a carefull guy.. ... Never seen a set of 94 mm wich fits the bore that's the same like 90,5. And  don't want to machine the case again....when i go that far i 'll might get at drift and get a 82mm crank  Just want to keep the engine basics like they are (78,4 x 90,5).

[DKK Ted]

I'm surprised the 218 takes the revs to 7000.
You have some awesome heads.

The 218 in my opinion is like a VZ15, generous lift, short duration. Good for torque and crisp throttle repsonse. The 125 runs strong well, from 2800 or so to 7000 or so depending on cc, heads, carbs.

I used 218 in a well built 1776 with stock valved ported 040 heads, 40IDFs with 32mm vents. Very strong to 6000.

I agree with Jim. The E125 is a very strong street cam, ran that cam myself, love it. Thinking of putting that cam in 2303 engine that is in my car now when I swap motors with the new motor, another 2303, but with balls. I would run some 1.25 rockers on that E125. Will be awesome!

Sounds pretty nice to me ....I'm just worried how the engine will respond in the 1500 till 2500 rpm range . What lifters are you going to use with the W125???

I'll use the Scat Lub-A-Lobe with S&L treatment.

[DKK Ted]

From what I remember, the E125 had alot good bottom, all the way up. I know Sarge from DKP runs that cam also, works for him. Maybe he'll chime in if he see's this post. And he runs IDA's also. I've heard him leave Nicks sometimes and sounds pretty strong.

[bugnut68]

Your engine sounds darned near identical to what I'm getting ready to build for my '70 Bug, except I'll be running 45 DRLA Dellortos.  I've never had a stroker motor, and am interesting to see what kind of gains I get in the 1/8 mile.  My mild 1776, with a very soft launch runs 11's here at 4,800 feet elevation.  I'm sure if I drove it like I hated it I could get into the 10's in the 1/8th, but didn't want to overly abuse that little motor.

[Fiatdude]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
you'll be able to teach your car to do that with a
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
TURBO

[FDK/mrpedrini]

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
you'll be able to teach your car to do that with a
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
TURBO

Don't you get bored watching the birds in the sky??? maybe in some future project engine.....know to less bout turbo engines jet....

[Fiatdude]

Well Think about it -- -- How much money are you thinking about spending right now?? Your motor as it sits is a perfect candidate for a simple turbo kit -- say an Lowbugget with a 500 cfm Holley (or what ever the flavor of the month is / used/ whatever) with low boost at 7-10# you could gain 30 to 50 % increase in HP on premium pump gas -- --- So why spend the money for intermediate steps -- bigger this bigger that -- when you could step up and have a nice performing bug. Oh by the way, My Fiat had a AJ system on it (My tubing-his parts) with a 500 cfm Holley carb and it ran very nicely thank you. That picture in my avatar was taken on DOT street tires at 28 psi, on 20# of boost, using 100 octane aviation fuel (cheaper than race gas by 50%).

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dNtTvd5Qrcw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dNtTvd5Qrcw</a>

[FDK/mrpedrini]

Well Think about it -- -- How much money are you thinking about spending right now?? Your motor as it sits is a perfect candidate for a simple turbo kit -- say an Lowbugget with a 500 cfm Holley (or what ever the flavor of the month is / used/ whatever) with low boost at 7-10# you could gain 30 to 50 % increase in HP on premium pump gas -- --- So why spend the money for intermediate steps -- bigger this bigger that -- when you could step up and have a nice performing bug. Oh by the way, My Fiat had a AJ system on it (My tubing-his parts) with a 500 cfm Holley carb and it ran very nicely thank you. That picture in my avatar was taken on DOT street tires at 28 psi, on 20# of boost, using 100 octane aviation fuel (cheaper than race gas by 50%).

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dNtTvd5Qrcw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dNtTvd5Qrcw</a>

Will keep this in mind.... real hard results!! But now i like the charm of a double carb engine ... Did al lot of investments in fuel system....just want to finetune, not start all over again by buying a new turbokit... I think i might change the cam and the rockers..... and play with jetting and venturies... But cool to read all possabilities to upgrade my engine...thanks.

[Jim Ratto]

If you're going to buy rockers, then I'd buy a set of 1.4-1.5's, and not goof around with 1.25's
Your engine is certainly big enough to use a K8 or Web 86B. You'll get the increased lift @ valve w/o the increased valvetrain histronics that dumping 1.25's on an 125 or a 130 would cause.
Your 36mm venturies seem to be doing well, 7000rpm... a VW dual spring doesn't like life above that anyway. I'm still amazed that little 218 "bus" cam pulls that high 
I think what you're after is a harder and borader torque curve. My cam suggestion(s) are hardly the right advice if that is the case!
It's hard to diagnose "driveability" issues on the www.com, let alone "powerband" issues.
If you want more "right now" hard edged raw horsepower, the easy way, you need more cc's. It really is the easy way to get that motor to become explosive in its power delivery. Not the cheap way, but the gauaranteed method. If you took it to 94 x 82, you would be amazed in the difference in the way it lays the power down.
You're talking almost 300cc increase. Think 1600 to 1914... same spread, but with increased stroke. Ok, think 90.5 x 74 (1904) over 1600.
I had a 2054 for years, then built 94 x 82 and was stupified how much more urgent the powerband was. Whereas the 2054 had to come up on the cam, the 2276 just grunted down and took off.

[FDK/mrpedrini]

If you're going to buy rockers, then I'd buy a set of 1.4-1.5's, and not goof around with 1.25's
Your engine is certainly big enough to use a K8 or Web 86B. You'll get the increased lift @ valve w/o the increased valvetrain histronics that dumping 1.25's on an 125 or a 130 would cause.
Your 36mm venturies seem to be doing well, 7000rpm... a VW dual spring doesn't like life above that anyway. I'm still amazed that little 218 "bus" cam pulls that high 
I think what you're after is a harder and borader torque curve. My cam suggestion(s) are hardly the right advice if that is the case!
It's hard to diagnose "driveability" issues on the www.com, let alone "powerband" issues.
If you want more "right now" hard edged raw horsepower, the easy way, you need more cc's. It really is the easy way to get that motor to become explosive in its power delivery. Not the cheap way, but the gauaranteed method. If you took it to 94 x 82, you would be amazed in the difference in the way it lays the power down.
You're talking almost 300cc increase. Think 1600 to 1914... same spread, but with increased stroke. Ok, think 90.5 x 74 (1904) over 1600.
I had a 2054 for years, then built 94 x 82 and was stupified how much more urgent the powerband was. Whereas the 2054 had to come up on the cam, the 2276 just grunted down and took off.

  Jeah, its verry difficult to give an idea of engine caracteristic on the WWW.... (and think from dutch to englisch language)but i know it's true that more displacement..... give's more torque. I drove my buddy's bug with the same cam i drive (webcam 218) only he had a 78,4x 94 engine. had better trottle response.  Al i want my engine to do is jump faster in RPM (don't know if i give a good discription right now). the W125 advice sound good to me... dont know the grinds of those webcams you talk about..i 'm going to do some research on that. Just want to know what a hotter cam does to my engine in the idle to 2500rpm area... Don't want to have an engine that has a bad responce in the lower rpm area (city trafic)

[Fiatdude]

my last post here -- --

7#'s boost = 50% increase in cc's

14#'s boost =100% incease in cc's