Best All Around Cam for Street, Cruising and Some Bracket Racing...

[rick m]

What have all of you found as the best all around cam for street use, freeway and some bracket racing action. This is an area that could get interesting.  I know cam, carburetion, compression, motor size, heads, rod ratio and a lot of things all contribute to the whole package.

Share what you've found is a streetable, driveable combo, that had a reasonable life (providing you used a good zinc based oil) and how long you were able to run the cam before tear down and issues with lifter bores, etc. I'm curious to see if there is a common denominator or preference in cam selections. 

Rick Mortensen

[kingsburgphil]

If we set the the "way back machine" to 73'. With my ex DKP 2 liter, the wife could go grocery shopping, we would run a club rally
that night and turn mid 12's at the Bug -In the next day. Nothing fancy...square ports, IDA's and a Engle 130.

[deano]

I always wanted to install a FK89 into a bone stock 1600.....

[Lids]

web cam 86b?

[richie]

FK8 is the best all round cam I have used,it just seems to work well whatever you use it in

cheers richie,uk

[beetlemic]

I like the Engle W125

[Sven/DFL]

FK10 works perfect in my 2110 with IDA's! 500 km tour with some Autobahn-racing and normel street use is no problem! So my choice is the Engle FK10

Sven

[RFbuilt]

i wonder, wouldnt the best "all around cam" be dependant on the displacement?


rick m.  what size u thinkin of? im curious hehe

[rick m]

The motor I currently have mocked up is a 2275.  It is a easy motor to set up with the 82 stroke and 94s.  I've run the K8 and heard a lot about the WEBCAMs over the years.  Cam selection is important because I don't want to overcam the motor either.  I had a mild PAUTER Cam in my last 2110 and 1.4 rockers. Would get 24mpg on the freeway, run 13.90's all day long and drove like a stocker with 48's.  I am just looking to try something different with a little more punch.

My heads are CNC's 42mm intakes and 37mm exhausts.  I like big block Chevy theory.  Make the motor big, the valves big and the cam conservative.  You get tree pulling torque, great bottom end and driveability.  I'm just looking for ideas before I finalize the assembly as I have run a lot of detuned motors for driveability but I want to get a little crazier for a Friday night cruizer motor too.

Keep the ideas flowing.

Rick M

[RFbuilt]

while im a very very new guy to vw,

the chevy theory sounds , erm sound LOL   i wonder though we are blessed with companies that keeps developing

maybe a "big" cam can sweep the low end power while maintaining the top end too?

- i have no experience with the said cam, but based on "the other one" jim's sharings ,
  web110 myt be awesome on ur 2276 ,   seeing that its slightly more in dur. vs an engle w120 (sounds good too if u try this)
  and it may still be on the small side (falls into ur chevy theory aproach) 

  asuming (on my behalf) that its kinda small.. for u
  seeing a 90.5x78.4 motor with an engle w125  seem streetable real nice <-- ask Sarge hehehehe

[javabug]

Another vote for Web 86b here. 

I've driven two cars with it so far.  One is a 2276 with Wedgeports and big valves—totally driveable but with no shortage of excitment if needed.

I'd like to try an Engle 125 someday, too.

[bilboa2]

rick , try the fk46. Have steve hollingsworth do lifter bore bushings. ( he did mine). fk 46, 268 at .050 with 409 lift. k 8 is 266 wit .382 lift. With my berg rockers and springs (gb273 hd black coated etc?) lift was .629. Try the new cb vw650 springs. GET a serti, (certi?) valve job too. major flow improvement . (new thread?). My 2442 on the dyno, 9.5 to 1, clyde's 44x37.5, made 181hp with belt and muff. at 4500 ft alt. No o.c. factoring...over 200 hp at sea level for sure.More tuning to come as tinware and removable apron being done.(painted today?).Don't have dyno sheet in front, but low rpm #'s where great. Had a k10, wanted more.. lift etc. Mark herbert with ssb ran a fk46 in its 2332.(11.05 et) Susies herbert's 71 ghia (heavy)has a fk47 in it.(13.0). Ask mike? Looking forword to running it? Maybe try it with a 106 lobe center. fk series are know for bottom end. My baja motor is 87 x 94 with behives, 7mm valve stems, wedgeports is getting a fk44. Waiting for warmer weather to finish and dyno. bill

[Jim Ratto]

the chevy theory sounds , erm sound LOL   i wonder though we are blessed with companies that keeps developing

maybe a "big" cam can sweep the low end power while maintaining the top end too?

- i have no experience with the said cam, but based on "the other one" jim's sharings ,
  web110 myt be awesome on ur 2276 ,   

problem w/ that Chevy theory is that motor has 90 degree crank. VW motor fires every 180, like a flat plane V8 (think Ferrari or Cosworth). They are tuned completely differently.
I think the Web 110 is a good cam for a hot street car up to about 1900cc, or a sedate street car with big crank (82mm+).
I used the Web 110 in a big motor big valves, 48IDA motor and it went all wrong. The inverse of what I have found to work (for me). The big ports/valves (heads were done by Heads Up, so on the "right"motor they would have rocked) killed bottom end, the short(ish) overlap shut things down up top. Contrary to popular belief, you can build a motor with too narrow a powerband with too mild of a cam.
There is no "best cam", there are too many variables in gearing, car weight, cfm, chamber design, exh length, carburetion, not to mention owner/driver preference. We built a 2276 that made 213hp @ 7100rpm and 175 ft lb @ 5500 on Roger's dyno, so the "numbers" were there, but the thing was nearly impossible to drive normally on the street (my opinon was too much cam). With that said, I like my motors to have "soul" and "character" (maybe it's the Italian in me), so I like the cammy step to come in, like a proper sports motor should. I like smallish intake ports, generous valve size, and healthy overlap. I run Pauter R6E8 in my 94x78, and it does everything well. Idles smoothly, pulls cleanly and solidly from idle, then tries to rip seats off pan @ 3800-4000. I drive it under all conditions (minus dusty: no air filters), approx 1000-1500 mi per month, avg 23mpg. All with 48IDAs that have the two progression holes.
I think it's best to run 1.4-1.5 rockers and keep the lobe lift conservative, as you have most of the mass doing less work that way, esp @ high rpm. I run 1.25's to save guides and springs in my Berg heads.
86C sure runs hard too. Fastest cars around run it. I loved it in my car.
for a stock ratio rocker guy, the Engle 130 is my vote.

[RFbuilt]

good stuff Jim!

thanks for the inputs, hehe

lack of experience told me to asume the web110 is big enough to be mild..  i guess not hehe


from what ur saying.. that makes perfect sense, kinda strangling the motor up top and having too little dur. for anything to work down low.. specially with big valves,  interesting

[Jim Ratto]

good stuff Jim!

thanks for the inputs, hehe

lack of experience told me to asume the web110 is big enough to be mild..  i guess not hehe


from what ur saying.. that makes perfect sense, kinda strangling the motor up top and having too little dur. for anything to work down low.. specially with big valves,  interesting

no, I believe you were correct in your thinking..... except in my experience, it was TOO mild. The big motor had a laziness to it that I hated. Stomp it down low and you'd think the short duration would have made for an motor that could tie axles in knots. Nope. And the big flowing ports/runners/valves, you'd think the thing would bang off the 7500 limiter. Nope.
Same cam in a 88 x 69 sang like a canary from 4-7000rpm. So yes, like you said, displacement (especially stroke) makes all the difference in the world.
I wrote an article for a friend's website a while back on all this. It will bore you to tears, but if you want to read it , let me know.

[RFbuilt]

if its regarding , cam timing, lift, displacement (stroke and rod length)  and overall cam stuff?

yes id like to get "bored"   hehehe


interesting points once again... again lack of experience in aircooled stuff's here so bare with me

but wouldnt wat u experienced, be the cause of the big head big valve stuff , flows well  , im sure pretty good
but prolly didnt flow any special below .300" lift ?  could be that , maybe efficiency wasnt that good down low
big valve big port (soggy air speed) prolly would have sang good if lift (more than .450) and more dur. was had 

luke u said to me way back, strokes can afford longer overlap cuz they got the torque... 

possibly the motor u mentioned could have had (below 4k rpm) too small of a cam for the head and (above 4krpm) too small of a cam for any efficient breathing for the displacement it had,  kinda like choking it when singing.. axle rose? HAHAHA

[Jim Ratto]

if its regarding , cam timing, lift, displacement (stroke and rod length)  and overall cam stuff?

yes id like to get "bored"   hehehe


interesting points once again... again lack of experience in aircooled stuff's here so bare with me

but wouldnt wat u experienced, be the cause of the big head big valve stuff , flows well  , im sure pretty good
but prolly didnt flow any special below .300" lift ?  could be that , maybe efficiency wasnt that good down low
big valve big port (soggy air speed) prolly would have sang good if lift (more than .450) and more dur. was had 

luke u said to me way back, strokes can afford longer overlap cuz they got the torque... 

possibly the motor u mentioned could have had (below 4k rpm) too small of a cam for the head and (above 4krpm) too small of a cam for any efficient breathing for the displacement it had,  kinda like choking it when singing.. axle rose? HAHAHA

get out your blanket and pillow.
http://www.peninsulaautomotive.com/articles/camshafts_6_15_09.html

[RFbuilt]

saved to favorites !!

im reading it right now... bye for now guys haha



Jim its 5:27am here its a tropical hot country.. whats a blanket? LOL

[benssp]

I had an FK10 in my 1776 with 40x35.5 heads and 1.54:1 rockers, great for motorway driving, round town and the odd RWYB

[Tony M]

My vote - Engle 125 - running a 1776 w/dual 40's - had a single 40 on it - run good - duals made the engine realy wake up over 3000 rpm - good crusing but when droping the hammer - pulls till i shift at 5500 ( stock crank and rods). Never had a wear problem.

[bilboa2]

oops, correction . MY fk46 cam card reads 271 duration, berg rockers where 1.45.(1.54 actual) i am sure the 88 stroke helped my big trq #'s down low. still pretty snappy though with short rod. 5.6.bill

[neil68]

FK8 hands down, used in my 2017 cc and 2332 cc and was very surprised at how smooth it drove around town with IDA's...plus a lot of fun at the track!

Web 86C is also a nice cam in the 2332 cc, but a bit higher idle.

[DOUG BERG]

.

[Jim Ratto]

I agree with what I think Doug is saying, move lobe center 2-4 forward. Motor builds cylinder pressure faster, throttle response screams.

[RFbuilt]

Jim the link u gave was a good read,  very nice refresher/reminder for most (but for me it was a nice read to ensure i wasnt getting lost)   you guys should check it out,


now to lobe center isht's 

the typical engle W grinds are 107*   right?


hmmmm

[DOUG BERG]

.

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

     TO:  "THE RATTO CAL" ONE....   (GOTTA SAY IT FAST!!!)   
                           
                                      "WHAT" I'M ALSO SAY'N IS...   THE VZ SERIES CAMS INCREASE THE CHAMBER PRESSURE ALSO!!!
                                 ("DYNAMICALLY")       WITH NO CHANGE TO THE STATIC !!!           (MY 1ST CAM IN MY 40HP WAS VZ15!!!) 


       IF YOU RELOCATE WHERE FULL LIFT IS (THE L/C)  IT STILL HAS "MOST OF ONE FULL LAP TO RECOVER".....     EVEN THOUGH THE "ACTION" WAS EARLY!!!

                                   "DOIN A VZ TYPE CAM"    YOU DONT WANNA KILL OFF    "TOO MUCH DURATION"!!!     (SOME IS OK...)   
                                  THE "STEEP'R" THE LOBE  "THE MORE SEVERE THE ACTION IS"!!!         DONT MAKE IT "TOO SEVERE"!!!
                                                                                        (NO FLOAT OR LOFT!!!)
                                                            YET BUILD MORE "CYLINDER PREESURE"... "  DYNAMICALLY" !!!!
                    AND THE  "ONLY WAY"  IT WILL GO OVER 8 TO 1         IS....   TO "OVER FILL THE CYLINDER"....    & THAT IS POSSIBLE !!!
                                   ITS BEEN A COUPLE OF MONTHS,,,         AND MY "NEW K-9" STILL ISNT DONE YET !!!!   
                                SO I'LL HELP YOU GUYS DRIVE AROUND US!!!  WHILE THE SHOP TRY'S TO PULL THIER HEADS OUT!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                               DOUG....

                                                PS....           "I BELIEVE" ENGLE IS 108 L/C UNLESS YOU ASK FOR DIFFERENT!!!

WHILE THE SHOP TRY'S TO PULL THIER HEADS OUT!!!!

[DOUG BERG]

                                                                                          LOOK'S LIKE ME !!!                              



                                                                                                  DOUG...

[RFbuilt]

hahaha the Ratto Cal one ,  i like that, sounds uhm radical   

you are right mr Doug, engle w is i think 108,

interesting info sharing Doug , my cam guy (the one who does cams for us on inline 4 application)
 knows i have an engle w110 and engle w120 on hand, and he wants me to try his , 110 revised version
having improved ramp (not too aggresive)  tad less duration, 243 @0.050"   and in " 107 "

he says its not overly far from an w110 , but just improved on it some,  more punch


is this the same as your suggestion?

[Jim Ratto]

Don't tell anybody, but the VZ15 is one of my favorite cams.....