Best All Around Cam for Street, Cruising and Some Bracket Racing...

[DOUG BERG]

.

[RFbuilt]

wow so, that means, my cam guy is correct? or should i say, close to what you're suggesting Doug?

yeah its on the mild side,  he always tells me.. worry not juz the cam (though it is important)   he says, no sense in geting a daddy cam and running every other component like it was stolen from a truck in china LOL! 


your father has touched alot of people, even today im sure still in the future

you have a big step to fill haha kidding Doug,


The other one -  the vz15 , is another one im looking to have soon, stashed in the garage, for the future what if sweep the floor stuffs     

lovin the topic btw

Ralf'

[DOUG BERG]

.

[RFbuilt]

one funny note.. in some of the (i think all) of the tech manuals of GeneBerg

he suggest 7ish comp ,  (have to reread the book)   most say its too low, specially for todays stuff etc

i wonder,  cuz  a cam done right or big enough can have an engine run 9.2:1 static yet still have 7ish dynamic comp down low?

i dont think it was ever mentioned if the 7ish comp was static or dynamic by Gene,

very interesting tidbit though..  he has a way of making people think fo themselves and improve..

Doug, it would be funnier if you mention the first letter of the name of (as u call it)  NEWB

LOL

cheers,   

Ralf

[DOUG BERG]

.

[RFbuilt]

lol hahaha so i guess i had a misconception  , thanks for clarifying Doug!


to keep it off topic some more 

will the "vented" sump be availble for us masses?

me likey!

[DOUG BERG]

.

[RFbuilt]

hahaha well i do hope i dont lack in common sense Doug!

yeah we wer talkin dynamics fo sho!

i can call the shop (even though i live half way across the world, asia LOL)   but its sunday.. il call monday
will you be there?  hehehe

[m.m.p]

i agree with richie,  the K8 is a great street cam with carb, but i think a K87 would be great for the street with full fuel injection (fuel and spark), with more top end.

[DOUG BERG]

.

[RFbuilt]

10-4 , roger that 

if im not mistaken, this is "the" point where efficiency has a chance or can go beyond 100VE ?  aka supercharging effect

when if,  the head and intake manifold and carb is tuned and designed well,  could overcome the pistons "push out" and overfill the chamber/cylinder more than it can actually  "suck in"  ?

very cool,  we try to push for this on our engines (4cylinder inline4 watercooled motors) but my experience in aircooled flat 4's is severely limited, hence im trying to cram as much knowledge as i can in my head LOL

nice enlightenment Doug , much apriciate it!!

[DOUG BERG]

.

[Jim Ratto]

guys pick cams because "somebody told them" it will "run good", and since, like Doug says, they have no reference to measure what "runs goods" against, they do claim "____ cam" is best.
If you make a "cam mistake", there is little masking it you can do, more than likely, you're going to have to live with it or take drastic measures. I know, because I erred on the side of stupid more than a few times, making dumb assumptions and "convincing myself" that variable "x" or Y" or "Z" will make up for my overeager brain diarreha. I can think of four cams that I never should've allowed in my engine(s).
The VZ15 has never been in my personal car, but that cam has proven itself (only once on dyno, admittedly) in more engines as far as throttle response and all around "right now" power, than most other's I've used/tried.

[DOUG BERG]

                        .

[RFbuilt]

                                      "MOST ALL TESTS",,,   HAVE TO COME FROM...    "AN IMPARTIAL POSITION" !!!   ("A WAIT AND SEE APPROACH")
                                              IF YOU COME FROM A POSITION   "TO PROVE"   SOMETHING...    "THEN YOUR TESTS ARE SKEW'D"!!!
                                     YOUR ONLY GONNA SEE...   "WHAT YOU CAME TO PROVE"!!!   AND "MOST REPORTS "WILL" PROVE YOUR RIGHT"!!!
                                                                              (ESPECIALLY IF THATS WHAT YOU CAME FOR !!!)
                                  AND THATS "NOT" REALLY....   "A TRUE TEST"!!!    THATS ONLY COMPILING EVIDENCE "TO PROVE" ...  "YOUR RIGHT"!!!

                      IF YOU "START" LIKE I DID...  (WAYBACK)   "NOT KNOWING"   "!!!!"   THEN YOU GET "TO LEARN ALOT",,,   AND "SEE NEW THINGS"!!!!

                         
                                                   IF YOU   "ALREADY KNEW"     "YOU WERE RIGHT"....   "WHY"....   EVEN DO THE TESTS ??



                                                                                                "GET IT"
                                                                                                "GOT IT" !!!
                                                                                                 "GOOD" !!!


                                                                                                                                                                                  LOVE DOUG....


                                                                               I WAS "EXTENSIVELY TRAIN'D" BY....   
                                                                     THE ORGANIZATION WHO BROUGHT YOU THE SAY'N
                                                                                "THINK'N OUTSIDE THE BOX"!!! 
                                                                                 (BACK IN THE 70'S 80'S & 90'S)
                                                                       
                                                                           "IT'S NOT JUST A CATCH PHRASE FOR ME"!!!
                                                             

                                                                               "IT'S LANDMARK EDUCATION"!!!

so true! when it comes to tests and proving data etc,   even more true when somebody has to make "sales"  LOL and do research for it...


id like to think : that im not coming in a position to "prove" anything hehe,  i actually wanna  "play" and "try" things to see what happens , same why i really wanted and will push thru with the current motor projects 1 - 88x69 mild motor , 2 - 88x74 lil less mild motor 

i wana try and climb a fence,  fall and scratch my knees , just like the old timers did back in the days , 
maybe then i will learn, which fence not to climb hahahaha

thanks Doug and Jim for the inputs...  gettin excited by the day (while waiting on shipments of parts LOL!!)

[rick m]

Doug,

You are cracking me up!  I knew this thread would pull out all the cammer experts.  I'm sure glad I read all the posts. I did not know that a 90 degree V8 and an opposed 4 were different!!! 

Funny when I mentioned using big block guides (big displacement, big valves and mild cam) that someone thought they had to teach me what difference there was between a 90 degree V8 and a Wasserboxer flat four. I am used to hearing from experts on all the forums. 

I have always stayed away from too much cam on a street engine. Most street driving is between stop light to stop light and on the freeway.  Going from a 1000rpms to 4,000 rpms is mild street driving.  My motors have been geared to run at about 70 mph at 3400 rpms.  Since I could careless about being the fastest guy on the block but I do want to do 500, 1000, even 2500 mile road trips, I like building big displacement with a driveable combination.  Even with 48's on top.

Loved your story about the hey day of your looker was the car that also had to get you to and from work.  These cam discussions always bring out the Friday night warrior engine combos, or the cruise to the burger joint/strip discussions.  In 1970 my weekend warrior was my driver.  It was a 92 x 74 motor with a Norris cam, Sig Erson rockers, Fortuned exhaust, 010 Distributor, stock valve ported heads and originally a Holley Bugspray.  Later it got its first pair of duals, Solex 40Plls.  I beat the tar out of it on Friday nights but still drove it as my main transportation. And yes, I did have one of those "go to the bottom of the page cam grinds" that I hated. I did not realize at the time that my Porsche mechanic friend had put a cam in my motor for drag racing.  The first time we tore down the motor, I detuned it to make it more driveable.

Keep your posts a coming. The discussion becomes more informative and more hilarious by the thread! It is interesting hearing all the opinions.

I think I am on about my 40th motor combo, for my personal street cars, since 1970. I have learned something from every one of them.  My most favorite was my 2110cc motor that was in my Teal 67 I drove on the 1997 BERG Cruise to Detroit. It was the most docile, detuned, fun motor I have ever owned. It had a PAUTER BP6HS cam with ratio rockers. It was not a killer cam but a completely driveable, fun motor that got 24mpg hwy and had no problem cruising at 70mph all day at 190 degrees. It went up the Park City Grade, just east of Salt Lake City, in 4th gear and never missed a lick doing so.

Long live the detuned street engines for every day driving. That motor had 8.3 static compression.

Rick M

[RFbuilt]

very nice, looks like u got it toned out and planned,

now if i wasnt half way across the world, id beg u for a shotgun ride on that machine! hehehehhe

i think now i get ur "chevy theory"   not the mechanical aspect, and or design

but just the sheer size + tame characteristics of the whole ride? 

hope i got it correct,, im a screamingly obvious newb.. and the 88x69 motor im doing with the .430" and 243* dur@0.050" is gona be my first ever cammed vw hahaha imagine that? 

but on a sidenote,  on Honda's (gosh yes, thats where my stuff's originate, i port heads for that platform)

we have engine swaps, from a typical 1.5-1.6L single overhead cam, swap it to a dohc 1.6L or 1.8L  even a 2.0L 

the 2.0L swap, even in stock form.. is i think what ur talkin about? sorta like a tamed hauler,  purrs nicely, but will keep pulling and pulling and pulling some more, under normal street driving conditions?

gosh.. can u let me ride on ur beetle when its done?  haha

cheers

Ralf,

[DOUG BERG]

                                                                             .

[rick m]

Ralf,

You caught my thoughts on displacement/size.  The bigger crank and motor creates a lot of torque for all around driving.  The cam really determines where it will be most driveable.  I wish there were 4 valve heads for the AC VW.  Imagine what we could create in HP with really tame cam grinds.

SUBARU really got it right with their motors. The early ones all looked like a watercooled copy of the flat 4 VW. They just kept refining it and making it better. The good old "Continuous Improvement" philosophy.

These discussions always stir up a lot of opinions.  Now that I am nearing 60, I have a lot of ideas on what makes a fun and driveable combination. Then again, I am not interested in all out quartermile assault power. I just like fooling with street cars and having fun cruisin. 

The right cam combo is the one you want for what you are doing.

Rick M

[RFbuilt]

4valve heads or not... it would be awesome if we had dual over head cams

LOL imagine having engle 120s  that u can adjust the intake camgear and exhaust camgear separately? 


the displacement/size  for a given vehicle/car  was juz sumthing thats always in my head, with regards to honda's
cuz "engine swaps" are most common there,

and at 26 , i dream of  reaching you're level, or anybody's here  at that age

(i welcome the numerous engines, cams ,rods,cranks,and beers i have to go thru)

it should be fun!!!!  hehehe

DougBerg ,    not my fault (The ratto cal one ,started it) hahaha kidding man!