Breather Question???

[DKK Ted]

I am currently running a Berg breather. One #8 to the valve cover, and a #10 to the fuel pump block off. It vents through a breathable chrome top as pictured below. Question is, can I add a firewall type breather with the Berg breather? That means that they both will breath. Or does the Berg need to be a sealed unit with a line going to the other breather?

Ted

[glenn]

I see no reason why you can't have two breathers.. but why?

[DKK Ted]

Hey Glenn, what happen, at Drag Day it started to puke a little oil through the breather, so I figured it may need a little help with another breather. I have one of Fast Fab breather's and was thinking of installing that, but if the setup would work. I can pull the Berg breather off and just run the FF breather, it is bigger. I don't race all the time, it's more of a street car, but once in awhile like to take it to the track but don't want to oil all over the place. Trying to find that happy medium.

Ted

[JS]

So the oil came out from the top of the Berg box?

[drgouk]

Hi Ted,
           I have the same breather box as yours on my 196 hp 2332cc. I had the same issues as your having. I now run another breather box with a drain directly back to my berg deep sump.I will take some pics this week end to show how it works.
Bascically I have a AN -12  bulkhead fitting with the threads machined off 1 end, This pushes into the rubber seal in the top of the berg box and can be removed to full the engine with oil, Then a 90 degree AN 12 fitting conects to this and goes to my breather box. Very tidy solution.
Will get some pics!

David

[DKK Ted]

Thanks Dave, that sounds like a plan. #12! BIG line. Hey, but if it works, what the hell, sounds like a clean set-up though. Can't wait t see the pics.

Ted

[drgouk]

Thanks Dave, that sounds like a plan. #12! BIG line. Hey, but if it works, what the hell, sounds like a clean set-up though. Can't wait t see the pics.

Ted

No problem, Will take some Pics on saturday when I go to my car. In my experience, big breather lines work, It slows down the air speed and tends to make the oil fall out of suspension.

[Jon]

First, what is the purpose of the breather box?
My assumption is that it should separate oil from the air, and then let the air out...? To relive crank case pressure.

The way I'm looking at it you need as big area opening out of the box as you have going in to the breather box...

Some old breather boxes have four 10 mm inlet's below the oil/air separator plate, and TWO outlets on the top with the same size...  just makes you wonder...

Just some observations from my side... carry on 

[Lids]

i will be running a berg oil filler tower and a clyde berg breather box.  Venting the valve covers, fuel pump and draining to the sump.

[Diederick/DVK]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, nor to repeat another thread, but how do you drain back to the sump? from a breather box to the sump or from the 3-4 valve cover to the sump?
excuse my ignorance for i have not even figured this out for my own engine, yet. 

secondly, do breather towers always need to vent? like the berg tower that uses a venting cap? what i'm getting at is how do you for instance let a 912 oil filler/beather tower vent?

[drgouk]

The drain from the breather box should go directly to the sump.
Draining your breather box directly back to the stock oil filler location is a bad idea in my opinion, it only works properly when the engine is stopped, never mind if you have half a litre of oil in your breather box. I say return the oil directly back to where it needs to be in reserve where it can be of use, The Sump.

[Lids]

most breathers vent to the carbs.  They have to be vented to atmospheric pressure or they don't work!

Draining to the sump is easy, either buy one which has a threaded plug already or, weld an aluminium an fitting to it(after drilling)

[JS]

So the oil came out from the top of the Berg box?

Ted, was my question too stupid to be worth answering?
What happens if you stop venting from the valve cover?

[DKK Ted]

So the oil came out from the top of the Berg box?

Ted, was my question too stupid to be worth answering?
What happens if you stop venting from the valve cover?

Sorry about that, got side track on the other post, that is exactly what happen, oil was coming out of the breather cap, not alot, but enough to make a mess. As far as the valve covers is concern, I assume it would relieve some of the pressure. The more pressure, the more oil will start basicly pumping out at higher RPM's, in my case the breather cap. With a bigger breather box, it will contain more oil and drain back into the crankcase. Thats the way I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will be correcting me. Good question. Kinda hoping someone will add to this or correct if I'm wrong.

Ted

[youngnstudly]

I have been building an oil filler for my new 2276 and I am not totally sure that my design will be efficient enough for my setup. My current setup is a stock oil filler with no road draft tube, and a 70's/80's Claude Buggies breather box vented to both valve covers, the oil filler, and the fuel pump block off plate. I have some oil mist around my pulley tin and breast plate so I am certain that I need some venting to the atmosphere.

Sorry for the long post, I just don't know how confusing my photos and explaination will be. Hopefully the photos will explain what I can't!

Below are some pics of the filler I am making at work. My plan is to make the filler look like something Joe Hunt would have sold with his VW magnetos as a matching oil filler. The top will be removable (though I haven't figured out how yet! ), and I still need to drill the body for a weldable AN fitting or 2( ).  I am using some old stainless thick wall tubing to vent to the atmosphere (6 pcs. of tubing total). The stainless perforated metal with the dished "baffle" sits in the aluminum housing (permanently) to keep the oil from sloshing up the filler, the 2nd perforated metal "basket" slips inside the "sleeve" that has 6 angled holes, the round (smooth) lid needs to get a 3-1/4") hole drilled through it so I can pass the "sleeve (w/ the holes) through it, and the tubing gets welded in the holes. Before I weld the "lid" top on I am going to insert some factory plastic mesh from a stock oil bath air cleaner and a small piece of perforated metal to prevent leaks from the tubes.

Should I use a CSP breather box along with this oil filler, or will my CB breather box work okay? I bought a used CSP breather box for $30 from a friend and it has 6 ports for hoses on it. Also, should I weld one AN fitting to the aluminum base (I am thinking of using a -8 AN fitting...or a -10 maybe???), or should I use more than one fitting and vent to more than one place?

Here are pics:

All the parts...or most of them


The inner baffle installed in the body


The "lid" parts


This is how everything will be positioned, the lid will slip over this, and I will weld a cap to the top to seal it off after the air cleaner mesh gets placed in the basket (lid/top)


Hopefully it will shine up like this once I am done. The "cap" will be painted black and all breather hoses will be hidden.


Thanks fellas,
Andy

[JS]

So the oil came out from the top of the Berg box?

Ted, was my question too stupid to be worth answering?
What happens if you stop venting from the valve cover?

Sorry about that, got side track on the other post, that is exactly what happen, oil was coming out of the breather cap, not alot, but enough to make a mess. As far as the valve covers is concern, I assume it would relieve some of the pressure. The more pressure, the more oil will start basicly pumping out at higher RPM's, in my case the breather cap. With a bigger breather box, it will contain more oil and drain back into the crankcase. Thats the way I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will be correcting me. Good question. Kinda hoping someone will add to this or correct if I'm wrong.

Ted

No harm done.  Do you think it´s the size of the box that´s the problem or that you are putting more pressure in the box than it can put out?
What I´m also thinking of is that if you have a high pressure of oil-saturated air up from the case into the breather box. Then you hit high RPM and the valve cover starts filling up. It then fills the breather hose and starts throwing oil into the breather which leads oil coming out on top of it. That´s why I´m thinking maybe it´s better not to vent from the valve covers.

Thoughts anyone?

[Lids]

isn't part of the problem associated with poorly seated piston rings and blow by?  Thereby increasing pressure in the crankcase.

[DKK Ted]

So the oil came out from the top of the Berg box?

Ted, was my question too stupid to be worth answering?
What happens if you stop venting from the valve cover?

Sorry about that, got side track on the other post, that is exactly what happen, oil was coming out of the breather cap, not alot, but enough to make a mess. As far as the valve covers is concern, I assume it would relieve some of the pressure. The more pressure, the more oil will start basically pumping out at higher RPM's, in my case the breather cap. With a bigger breather box, it will contain more oil and drain back into the crankcase. That's the way I see it. If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will be correcting me. Good question. Kinda hoping someone will add to this or correct if I'm wrong.

Ted

No harm done.  Do you think it's the size of the box that's the problem or that you are putting more pressure in the box than it can put out?
What I'm also thinking of is that if you have a high pressure of oil-saturated air up from the case into the breather box. Then you hit high RPM and the valve cover starts filling up. It then fills the breather hose and starts throwing oil into the breather which leads oil coming out on top of it. That's why I'm thinking maybe it's better not to vent from the valve covers.

Thoughts anyone?

Good question, and makes alot of sense. But alot of car's have the same setup as I do or I to them, and they have no problems. When I had my motor on the dyno the week before Drag Day, had no problem, but only hit the high RPM for a quick moment, it's the long High RPM's on the track that does it. Now if you don't vent from the valve covers, where would you vent? I see it as less vent more pressure, has to release somewhere. SO, I would say yes that size does matter on the box, but why only some has leaks like mine and some do not? As far as rings not seating good, I don't think I have that problem, but how would you know? I'm running the Childs & Albert Z-Gap second ring. wheather that makes a difference, I don't know.
So,to cure the problem would be have a bigger breather box or add another on. What ya think?? I may be seeing Jack S. tonight, I'll ask him, the expert, and I'll post what I find out. It's probably a very simple cause and solution, just haven't hit it.

Ted

[Lids]

what about a crankcase valve connected to the exhaust?

[Jim Ratto]

Ted do you have the OE baffle plate/gasket between the case and gen stand installed the correct direction? This can make or break you.
Jim

[DKK Ted]

Hey Jim, Yes, I do know what your talking about, The louver is pointing down, as far as direction, how do you explain that one? I would say that the opening is facing 1-2 side, does that make sense? And, is that right? That's the way I've alway's done it. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Ted

[Jim Ratto]

yeah sounds like you have it installed like VW said. the "crest" of louvers should be facing the crank drive gears. Wish I had a pciture. Sounds like you have that covered. 

[ST DRAGN]

Don't over think it!  My early old style GB/B puked also, with that same cap your currently running. I found early version that GB sold back in the day. ( flat top shape/dark grey in color ) and problem solved..

[OgCalLook]

Your 3/4 side is not vented (good) the best place to vent (less oil pushed out at high RPMs) is the top of the case, and the 1/2 side.

That being said, those 8000rpm blasts push more oil out and overwhlem the Filler/breather (oil capacity-wise), so maybe a firewall mounted box in addition to the filler/breather is what you need.


Tell us what Sacchette says....

[DKK Ted]

Thanks Jim for reafirming my plate install, it is a breather issue.
Art need to see what your talking about, so Berg made another version that was better? Is that the one your running now?
OgCalLook, what your saying is right, and may install the breather I have on the firewall. As far as Jack is concern, he was pretty busy today when I went in, and for that matter all day. I work for Jack part time and pretty busy myself on the CNC's. But, I will ask him on Monday if I go in. I do want to get his input on this.

Thanks guy's
Ted

[drgouk]

Pics as promised Ted...

[drgouk]

Some more, My breather box attaches where the charcoal canister was orginally.