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Author Topic: What to expect from stroker performance...inquiriy from first-timer.  (Read 7509 times)
bugnut68
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« on: April 16, 2010, 18:26:11 pm »

Okay, I'll admit that I'm now down to asking hypothetical questions because I haven't had time or work space for starting on my 2017 project, but please feel free to feed my imagination.  I'm curious as to what to expect performance wise transitioning from a mild 1776 (Engle 100 cam, 1.25 rockers, dual Kadrons, 7.8:1 semi hemi heads, yada yada yada) into a much larger beast (2017, dual 45 DRLA's, 42x37.5 valves, 8.5 or 9:1 comp, Engle 125 cam with 1.25 rockers).  I've gone for rides in stroker-equipped VWs, but never have had the pleasure to drive one for myself, so I'm just curious as to what to expect in terms of the car's behavior. It's going in a '70 Bug with (to begin with) a stock 4.12 IRS box.  Car has CB drop spindles and discs up front and stock drums out back.

Any feedback from those that have memories of your first stroker build would be great.  Thanks in advance!  Grin
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gyles
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I'm too old for this shit.


« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 18:44:51 pm »

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!  Shocked Grin Shocked Grin Shocked Grin

I think my transistion was something like that.
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F.W.R.

ET 12.5s on road treads, 12.4s on slicks @ 109.95mph.  Shakey, 29/05/11
Hotrodvw
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 20:51:27 pm »

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!  Shocked Grin Shocked Grin Shocked Grin

I think my transistion was something like that.

^^^ pretty much it....

My first impression was DAYUM!!!
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Hose & Fittings

'67 Sunroof

www.ultimateaircooled.com
Brother Lovedub
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 21:24:49 pm »

Okay, I'll admit that I'm now down to asking hypothetical questions because I haven't had time or work space for starting on my 2017 project, but please feel free to feed my imagination.  I'm curious as to what to expect performance wise transitioning from a mild 1776 (Engle 100 cam, 1.25 rockers, dual Kadrons, 7.8:1 semi hemi heads, yada yada yada) into a much larger beast (2017, dual 45 DRLA's, 42x37.5 valves, 8.5 or 9:1 comp, Engle 125 cam with 1.25 rockers).  I've gone for rides in stroker-equipped VWs, but never have had the pleasure to drive one for myself, so I'm just curious as to what to expect in terms of the car's behavior. It's going in a '70 Bug with (to begin with) a stock 4.12 IRS box.  Car has CB drop spindles and discs up front and stock drums out back.

Any feedback from those that have memories of your first stroker build would be great.  Thanks in advance!  Grin

Almost exactly the spec on mine, other than I'm at 1904 with a 74mm crank and 90.5's.  I've got a slipping clutch cos it cant take the power and only a pair of 40IDFs strapped to it (45DRLAs soon though).  I cant wait til I get a chance to open it up after it's been run in and fettled a bit and is breathing a bit more freely  Grin
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Type1/DVK
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 21:28:20 pm »

i've also got a slipping clutch, but 2-3strokes  (loose) on the butterfly nut at the clutchcable was enough! problem solved.
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DDD#8 - 14.74sec @ 1776cc - Member of:  DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers  - www.ultimatevw.nl - and racing engines
bugnut68
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 00:26:26 am »

Good stuff to hear...Grin  Would an engine like this be described as 'scary' fast compared to what I'm used to, or simply good and spry?  Just wondering.  I've got lots of time on my hands before I can even start working on it, so my curiosity is extreme.
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Hotrodvw
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2010, 00:29:18 am »

I wouldn't say scary, but substantial for sure.  Keep an extra change of undies in the glove box, if ya know what I mean.   Grin
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Hose & Fittings

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bugnut68
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 00:30:39 am »

I wouldn't say scary, but substantial for sure.  Keep an extra change of undies in the glove box, if ya know what I mean.   Grin

Gotcha, no meals or beverages two hours before going for a spirited drive, I'll remember that. Grin
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2010, 00:55:51 am »

From 1641 to 2054:

first open straightaway, stabbed it in second, car literally lunged forward, I said "holy fucking shit!!!" and let off and had to catch my breath.

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DER KLEINER PANZERS

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javabug
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WHAT'S UP WID DA BOOM BOOM???


« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2010, 03:36:33 am »

The noise.  The biggest adjustment for me was the noise.  A hot VW has so much more to hear than a stocker that you feel highly conspicuous driving around.  But at the same time you want to keep hearing it.
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Mike H.

Sven was right.
DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2010, 05:32:29 am »

I went from a 1776cc to a 78.4X90.5 E125 W/1.25 Auto-Craft rockers and Auto-Craft heads 40.35.5, this was back after I left Auto-Craft Machine, was in my 67', then lost the car in my divorce, another story, but talk about an adrenalin rush, from that day forward I never went backward always forward with a bigger motor or bigger cam or heads. Once it bites you that is it....an extrem rush! Bottom line! You'll love it!!   Grin

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
kingsburgphil
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2010, 06:13:32 am »

IMHO, build the biggest, most powerful engine you can afford. Then detune it (easily done  Grin) to suit your needs. It's a lot harder going the other way!
A mediocre motor will soon become "ho hum". Build it scary fast...then back it down, till you're ready (brakes, trans etc.)

I recall hearing something about "buying it once"  Wink
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Kaferdog
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2010, 07:13:47 am »

Still Waitin for my first experience with a beast ... Shocked!!!...I'm oh sooo close but not there yet.......Can't wait !..... Grin
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"I am on a drug, it's called 'Volkswagen.' It's not available 'cause if you try it once you will die. Your face will melt off, and children will weep over your exploded body."
bodgit
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2010, 10:23:39 am »

The noise.  The biggest adjustment for me was the noise.  A hot VW has so much more to hear than a stocker that you feel highly conspicuous driving around.  But at the same time you want to keep hearing it.

This Grin

From driving mine around just getting used to it, there's definitely the whole iceberg principle going on, I'm using maybe a 10th of the engine driving it literally with the play in the roller pedal and there's another 9/10ths lurking hidden under the water that I've yet to see.

Matt
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bugnut68
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2010, 01:38:38 am »

What kind of transmission mounts do you all recommend?  I'm thinking while the engine's out I should perhaps address this factor, as I have a few things to do that requrie no engine in place.  Just curious.  I've heard good things about the CB Performance Rhino mounts.
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DKK Ted
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2010, 05:18:27 am »

I run the Berg (heavy duty ones) mounts, but also use the Berg intermediate bar/mount and a Kafer bar. So it all depends on purpose. I also heard that the CB's are tough.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
Sam K
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2010, 05:26:05 am »

I have tried every mount combo available and I found the CB rhino mounts to be allright. What I didn't like about them was that there wasn't enough space on the nosecone mount to put any kind of washer behind the nuts that hold the mount to the pan. The setup I ended up sticking with is the Berg "harder than stock" rubber mounts and a Berg intermediate mount with rubber bushings. I also have a set of solid aluminum bushings made for drag racing. A good traction bar is also a must I have a CSP kafer bar as well but I'm not sure that I needed it.

When I went from a mild 1776 to a pretty healthy 2165, the thing I remember most was how different the powerband was. Off the line it didn't seem much different than my 1776 but above 4500 rpm's or so, where the small motor started to run out of breath, the stroke just kept of on pulling and pulling. It was awesome!
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Jeff68
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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2010, 13:49:21 pm »

After drinving my 68 with a basically stock 1600 and going to my 2110 - with Ida's, K10 cam etc......After I drove it with the 2110 my face hurt from smiling so hard.   

I use the Berg heavy duty rubber mounts and intermediate mount with rubber bushings.  I need to get and install a traction bar or kafer brace as I cannot launch the car very hard without getting scary amounts of wheel hop. 
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Dosey
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2010, 15:41:03 pm »

Hmm i think i went from a 1641 to a 2165 to a 2276 but honestly the 2165 was far more wild and I totaly shat myself. Took the car out on my first trip and just came back drenched in sweat...Sitting at lights trying not to just boot it was soo damm hard.

Just cant wait to get behind my very own dub soon enough
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bugnut68
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2010, 16:41:17 pm »

Hmm i think i went from a 1641 to a 2165 to a 2276 but honestly the 2165 was far more wild and I totaly shat myself. Took the car out on my first trip and just came back drenched in sweat...Sitting at lights trying not to just boot it was soo damm hard.

Just cant wait to get behind my very own dub soon enough

Adult diapers needed, check.  Will keep that in mind.
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alfie the monster
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WWW
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2010, 19:25:39 pm »

From 1641 to 2054:

first open straightaway, stabbed it in second, car literally lunged forward, I said "holy fucking shit!!!"


Something like that  Grin


and let off and had to catch my breath


Wuss  Cheesy
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JG54 Grunherz
Jim Ratto
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2010, 19:59:34 pm »

From 1641 to 2054:

first open straightaway, stabbed it in second, car literally lunged forward, I said "holy fucking shit!!!"


Something like that  Grin


and let off and had to catch my breath


Wuss  Cheesy

 Grin Grin
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
allmenplayon10
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2010, 20:34:11 pm »

A post i wrote minutes after my first driving experience in my mota.........

"Huge grin on my face, that first run out was just an amazing experience. Adrenalin, nerves, fits of laughter all at once"
"it was like sensory overload"

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All men play on 10
Never gonna turn down again

1961 Type1 Cal
Jim Ratto
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2010, 20:54:50 pm »

... Sorry, I will be more descriptive and less explicit, this was 1988-90
In 2 years I went from 1641 stock cam, stock heads, 32/36 Weber 2bbl to 1641, VZ25, 044 ported heads, dual 36DRLAs to 94 x 74, Engle 125, same 044's Weber 44's.
I went from a motor that would lose most street races to almost anything, and would labor and gasp at just the sight of a hill to a pretty visceral (compared to stock 1641), little motor that was hard-edged, nervous idle and not so much a weakling when throwing down @ stoplight grand prix. The cammed 1641 was a different animal altogether than the stocker. Where the stocker would slouch and protest when called to duty, the VZ25 motor was punchy, cammy, and pissed off, especially after 4000. Both motors ran the same exhaust back then, the S&S Rally (remember those, with 4 big megaphones?), but the sound from the cammed motor was so much more serious and business like. And now I had carbs that gurgled and growled and barked, instead of a wheezy whispering pile of crap progressive.
But then the 2054 transformed the car into something altogether different again. You could hear it the minute it fired up. More like you could feel it in your chest.... the rumpa rumpa rumpa thrumming of the idle as it warm up and spat and coughed out the merged dual quiets. The valvetrain was more pronounced in its sound too. The 44's had a crisper, harder sound as you cracked them too, not so sweet and innocent sounding as the 36DRLAs were.
I remember the first drive, never forget it. I was super gentle on the thing, just coming off closed throttle so slightly because it was the first big motor I had ever built or driven. I was afraid it was going to wad up in a big pile of broken springs, twisted rods and swiss cheesed case. After getting it out and around town, I was still careful not to get too demanding, basically out of fear of the "unknown" (shifting no higher than 2500-2700.... "wuss" is right). I took the car home, religiously let it cool, ran through valves, searched for oil leaks and called it a day. Yeah right. I went to bed later that night still on my big motor high, and no way was I going to sleep. I sat there going back and forth, knowing my asshole neighbor would hit the roof if I fired the thing up @ midnight (we'd had words before)...but common sense and good judgment prevailed and I said "screw it" and backed the car out of the garage @ about 1am, fired it up and took off into the October night. I knew Sheep would wake up if I went by his place, so I ran the car over to his dad's place. Sure enough, after I pulled up @ his place his bedroom light clicked on and I saw his scarecrow-like silhouette stand up in the window behind the shade. Soon he was outside, bleary eyed and disshoveled. "Man it sounds good" he said as he climbed into the passenger seat.  We took off down the long straight private drive that led to his ranch and I geared down from 3rd to 2nd and let the thing just roll along at 1800rpm or so, and Sheep said "well?" and I shoved the pedal down to the mat and we both were thrown back like rag dolls in a big slingshot. You asked the thing to go and it responded like it was angry with you for asking, but then that W125 cam came in and it was even more rushed and vicious, it just PULLED. We ended up driving around until sunup, all around backwards, up and down hills, through town, and no matter what we threw at it, it just roared and growled, taking whatever we gave it and chewing it up and spitting it out and asked for more.  I remember we came into a 15mph left hander on Vineyard Ave in Pleasanton, I stomped the throttle in 2nd and got the car really sideways in a scream of motor and tire protests. that was a first.
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Dave Rosique
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nobodyouno


« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2010, 21:19:12 pm »


First experience on my OWN stroker was a blast!
Mid 80's, built this 78.4X94, W-130, ported 40X35.5, straight cuts, 45mm dual Dells, close ratio gearbox powered MANX!
From the moment I got it running, I drove it like I stole it!! Just got the car running, 10:00pm, raining outside, no top on the Manx but I have to drive it!
I swear I had that car pitched sideways for a quarter mile at a time that night! TOTALLY unsafe, TOTAL rush better than any drug!! The car hauled a**!! Problem is, EVERY time I drove it I was looking for a race! HA! Rayburn remembers this one!!

Anyway, NOTHING quite like a good running stroker!! I miss that car and those times but I hope to have some fun with my "new" project soon...

Good luck and DO IT!!

~DR
 
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bugnut68
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2010, 22:07:11 pm »

I really gotta try and find some space to work on this thing in my garage... really looking forward to building this thing! Grin   At the very least I should get my carbs cleaned and assembled, that's something I can do with a minimum of space.
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Jim Ratto
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Posts: 7114



« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2010, 22:56:59 pm »

I built a 2276 for my '67 in my one bedroom A-frame shack in Quincy CA one time. You just have to want it bad enough.  Cool


Crank in the freezer and crank gears on top of wood stove to warm.
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2010, 23:13:33 pm »

I built a 2276 for my '67 in my one bedroom A-frame shack in Quincy CA one time. You just have to want it bad enough.  Cool


Crank in the freezer and crank gears on top of wood stove to warm.

That's a good tip!  I'll give that a whirl.
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Dave Rosique
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nobodyouno


« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2010, 23:52:50 pm »

I built a 2276 for my '67 in my one bedroom A-frame shack in Quincy CA one time. You just have to want it bad enough.  Cool


Crank in the freezer and crank gears on top of wood stove to warm.

That's a good tip!  I'll give that a whirl.

First motor I built I heated the oily old crank gears on my Mom's kitchen stove while she was away... smoked up the house real good Grin
 
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John Rayburn
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Der Kleiner Panzers


« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2010, 01:12:06 am »


First experience on my OWN stroker was a blast!
Mid 80's, built this 78.4X94, W-130, ported 40X35.5, straight cuts, 45mm dual Dells, close ratio gearbox powered MANX!
From the moment I got it running, I drove it like I stole it!! Just got the car running, 10:00pm, raining outside, no top on the Manx but I have to drive it!
I swear I had that car pitched sideways for a quarter mile at a time that night! TOTALLY unsafe, TOTAL rush better than any drug!! The car hauled a**!! Problem is, EVERY time I drove it I was looking for a race! HA! Rayburn remembers this one!!

Anyway, NOTHING quite like a good running stroker!! I miss that car and those times but I hope to have some fun with my "new" project soon...

Good luck and DO IT!!

~DR
 
                                                       We drove the crap out of that Manx! We should have gone to jail for 20 years EVERY time we took it out. I would always volunteer to pick up lunch IF, I could take the Manx. The answer was always yes, but there always had to be a time alottment built in to whenever people wanted their food, because there was always a long way to get there and back. Usually an extra half hour or more had to be built in.
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I also park at Nick's.
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