Seeking product recommendations...

[bugnut68]

Seeking brand recommendations for lash caps, barrel spacers and copper head shims (if needed).  Also, between the choices of barrel spacers or copper head shims, which are preferred to setting deck height? Just wondering which are the best in terms of longevity and overall quality... and any pros or cons to either item.

[Zach Gomulka]

After having some Scat lash caps fall off, I can safely say that I do not recommend them

[bugnut68]

After having some Scat lash caps fall off, I can safely say that I do not recommend them

I should preface my request for info with my current and relatively permanent "no EMPI/Mr. Bug" products embargo.

I'm a big supporter of Bugpack products, and think I can get them in Eugene when I visit next month... any thoughts?

[Rick Sadler]

After having some Scat lash caps fall off, I can safely say that I do not recommend them

I should preface my request for info with my current and relatively permanent "no EMPI/Mr. Bug" products embargo.

I'm a big supporter of Bugpack products, and think I can get them in Eugene when I visit next month... any thoughts?

Thank you for your support of BUGPACK Products. I can tell you all the items you have listed are made in the USA.

[Eric Ellis (57HotrodVW)]

Seeking brand recommendations for lash caps, barrel spacers and copper head shims (if needed).  Also, between the choices of barrel spacers or copper head shims, which are preferred to setting deck height? Just wondering which are the best in terms of longevity and overall quality... and any pros or cons to either item.

If you need a non-std size of lash cap (i.e., tighter fit, larger diameter, longer length, etc.), check with the folks at Precision Products Performance Center (PPPC). They should be able to get or make whetever you require and their knowledge/customer service is great.

http://www.pppcenter.com
1-800-421-9150

--Eric

[Jim Ratto]

Both Bugpack's and CB's lash caps have worked without a flaw in several motors that have come my stand. I had a set of Scat's "wear through" about 15 years ago (looked like a donut!)

[bugnut68]

After having some Scat lash caps fall off, I can safely say that I do not recommend them

I should preface my request for info with my current and relatively permanent "no EMPI/Mr. Bug" products embargo.

I'm a big supporter of Bugpack products, and think I can get them in Eugene when I visit next month... any thoughts?

Thank you for your support of BUGPACK Products. I can tell you all the items you have listed are made in the USA.

I'm all too happy to support the companies that have served me well, Rick...;-)

Thanks everyone for your recommendations.  I read somewhere that copper head shims may lead to heads loosening or something to that effect due to differences in expansion rates between aluminum and copper?  Just curious if there's any validity to this or not.

[Torben Alstrup]

In my time (21 years), BOY I´m getting old, I have never lost/dropped a SCAT lash cap, apart from when a spring broke and on a WBX where the idiot behind the steering wheel thought it was OK to rev until the valves floated so bad that it cut the rpm off. I have had dozens of Berg etc. caps that wedged the valves so hard that there was only the one way to take them apart, which then typically cost a set of valves too.
2 of the most steady running dragracers around here use Scat, and have done for a long time. No problems. So personally I do not like them wedging the valves so hard.
T

[bugnut68]

How about the copper head shims?  Are there any issues with heads loosening because of differing expansion rates?

[Jim Ratto]

do you need the copper gasket for deck reasons?

[bugnut68]

do you need the copper gasket for deck reasons?

Yeah, I don't know which I'm going to use yet and haven't measured deck height (case is currently out being machined for cam to lifter clearance) but wanted to know what was preferred or better.  So far I have yet to hear a single word...lol.

[Fasterbrit]

After having some Scat lash caps fall off, I can safely say that I do not recommend them

sounds like you had valve float and not a lash cap problem - unless of course the lash cap broke?

Have used many sets of Scat lash caps in at least ten engine builds and never had a problem with them.

[Bruce]

How about the copper head shims?  Are there any issues with heads loosening because of differing expansion rates?

Copper's expansion is greater than aluminum.  Not much chance of the different materials causing a problem.

I recommend you not use the copper head shims.  Since you must use shims under the cylinders to set your deck height, why add another part that may fail?
For decades we all built our big engines with no copper "gasket", and we didn't have any troubles.  It was only the turbo guys that saw a benefit, so in a case of monkey-see-monkey-do, now lots of guys are convinced you have to use them.  For the engine you're building, they provide nothing of any value.

"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no service problems."

[Jim Ratto]

How about the copper head shims?  Are there any issues with heads loosening because of differing expansion rates?

Copper's expansion is greater than aluminum.  Not much chance of the different materials causing a problem.

I recommend you not use the copper head shims.  Since you must use shims under the cylinders to set your deck height, why add another part that may fail?
For decades we all built our big engines with no copper "gasket", and we didn't have any troubles.  It was only the turbo guys that saw a benefit, so in a case of monkey-see-monkey-do, now lots of guys are convinced you have to use them.  For the engine you're building, they provide nothing of any value.

"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no service problems."

I agree. Why add another "joint"?

[bugnut68]

How about the copper head shims?  Are there any issues with heads loosening because of differing expansion rates?

Copper's expansion is greater than aluminum.  Not much chance of the different materials causing a problem.

I recommend you not use the copper head shims.  Since you must use shims under the cylinders to set your deck height, why add another part that may fail?
For decades we all built our big engines with no copper "gasket", and we didn't have any troubles.  It was only the turbo guys that saw a benefit, so in a case of monkey-see-monkey-do, now lots of guys are convinced you have to use them.  For the engine you're building, they provide nothing of any value.

"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no service problems."

Thank you, Bruce, that was EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was after!   I appreciate the forthrightness and directness. 

[Jason Foster]

  I suggest Rimco for barrel spacers.

[Felix/DFL]

How about the copper head shims?  Are there any issues with heads loosening because of differing expansion rates?

Copper's expansion is greater than aluminum.  Not much chance of the different materials causing a problem.

I recommend you not use the copper head shims.  Since you must use shims under the cylinders to set your deck height, why add another part that may fail?
For decades we all built our big engines with no copper "gasket", and we didn't have any troubles.  It was only the turbo guys that saw a benefit, so in a case of monkey-see-monkey-do, now lots of guys are convinced you have to use them.  For the engine you're building, they provide nothing of any value.

"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no service problems."

Thank you, Bruce, that was EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was after!   I appreciate the forthrightness and directness. 

Sorry to highjack, but in my view the cooper shims act as an head seal.
The greater expansion of the cooper material is a big benefit against leckage.
Didn`t the 356 Porsche even have got cooper shims originaly?

The Cooper shim seals the contact surfaces way better than only bolting steel against alu espeacially if bigger pressure (which a high hp engines produces) happens.
To me it`s more a part to reduce a problem. But that`s all more theoretically, I will see how the 2.2l with cooper shims behaves.

[Taylor]

A lash cap falling off is not a good reason not to use a certain brand. There has to be a gap for it to fall out. Manley makes a real good 8 mm lash cap.

I like head gaskets, and buy them from competition engineering.
Depending on who fly cuts your heads and with what cutter, the sealing surface may not be concentric.  That coupled with the cylinder surface, I like the idea of having the copper in there.

Second for me on the rimco spacers.  They can only make a minimum spacer of .060 so if you need a say  .040 spacer to get zero deck. Have someone take .040 off the top of the cylinder and buy an .080 spacer.

[bugnut68]

A lash cap falling off is not a good reason not to use a certain brand. There has to be a gap for it to fall out. Manley makes a real good 8 mm lash cap.

I like head gaskets, and buy them from competition engineering.
Depending on who fly cuts your heads and with what cutter, the sealing surface may not be concentric.  That coupled with the cylinder surface, I like the idea of having the copper in there.

Second for me on the rimco spacers.  They can only make a minimum spacer of .060 so if you need a say  .040 spacer to get zero deck. Have someone take .040 off the top of the cylinder and buy an .080 spacer.

I'd like to minimize the amount of machine work I need to have done if at all possible... I live out in BFE where Volkswagens are not taken terribly seriously.  People still look at me quizzically when I tell them the engine's still not together, and why... they just assume because it's a VW, it's easy to put together. 

I remember seeing Hot VWs' article on their 2007 Cal Look engine in 1995, and I think they used copper head shims as well as barrel spacers.  I haven't actually measured my deck height yet, as the case is still out being worked on for cam lifter bore/cam lobe clearance.

Still deciding on what to use for lash caps...

[Jim Ratto]

it's hard to minimize machine work when building a custom, one-off stroker motor. Just keep that in mind, to do the job right. Down to the details, that at first may seem inconsequential, these add up. Turns into one of those "the sum is greater than the parts" or whatever, situations.
Not sure about the other vendors but Bugpack offers their caps in a variety of heights to help perfect your valvetrain geometry.

[bugnut68]

it's hard to minimize machine work when building a custom, one-off stroker motor. Just keep that in mind, to do the job right. Down to the details, that at first may seem inconsequential, these add up. Turns into one of those "the sum is greater than the parts" or whatever, situations.
Not sure about the other vendors but Bugpack offers their caps in a variety of heights to help perfect your valvetrain geometry.

Yeah, I should clarify my initial comment, there... What I probably should have said is I'd like to strategically plan on what needs to be done so I can have it done while traveling to the city where such services are available   I'll be getting my parts balanced in Eugene, Oregon, in three weeks or so while I'm visiting family.  Everything I need to do here in my current town that I live and work has to be done via mail order... and it adds up in shipping real fast! Lol.

My goal is to have the deck height measured before I leave, and my heads CC'd, so I can determine what's needed in order to set my compression properly.  I work painfully slow on purpose, as there's too much at stake to risk turning all these parts into a molten pile of garbage!

[Taylor]

I live in Las Vegas. Doesn't seem like bfe but I still send everything to California.  Don't skimp on good machine work. Try to minimize the amount of times you ship or drive your parts somewhere.  
For example having the bores cut down before checking deck. You can't do anything with the cam without the crank and so on. Also depending on the lifters you could take a little off the back of the lifter, helps with clearance and keeps the bore longer. Also cheaper to ship.

[Zach Gomulka]

I believe my valvetrain was set up correctly. Steve Holiingsworth did that for me, and anyone that knows him knows he does quality work. The motor was quite mild, K65 cam, dual springs, stock size valves...

I'll find a set of Berg caps next time, and invest in a puller.

[Taylor]

I believe my valvetrain was set up correctly. Steve Holiingsworth did that for me, and anyone that knows him knows he does quality work. The motor was quite mild, K65 cam, dual springs, stock size valves...

I'll find a set of Berg caps next time, and invest in a puller.

...and a set of valves when you do springs.
Personal experience with Berg caps and manly valves,  a lot of material moved when taking the caps off requiring tighter caps for a 40 hp

[bugnut68]

I live in Las Vegas. Doesn't seem like bfe but I still send everything to California.  Don't skimp on good machine work. Try to minimize the amount of times you ship or drive your parts somewhere.  
For example having the bores cut down before checking deck. You can't do anything with the cam without the crank and so on. Also depending on the lifters you could take a little off the back of the lifter, helps with clearance and keeps the bore longer. Also cheaper to ship.

Yeah, if I'd been thinking I would have asked the shop to check my cam lobe/lifter clearance when I had my stroker clearancing done on the cas... just didn't occur to me, unfortunately, so that's totally my bad.  Ah, well, not like I'm in any hurry with this thing.   My initial plan was to have it done for next season, and it looks like I'll probably keep to that schedule, as I still have a few high-dollar (for my budget) purchases to make as it is (full flow kit, welded fan, muffler(s), etc. etc.  Plus a whole lot of nickel and dime stuff...