"Too technical..."

[bugnut68]

I don't understand how guys that bracket race their own cars (American iron) at our local track can't have a greater understanding of what it takes to build an engine.  Guys in my club are always asking me why my new engine isn't done yet (it's a Volkswagen, how hard can it be?)  Last night I was attempting to explain my difficulties in checking head chamber volume for setting compression/determining compression ratio, and some of them said things like, "Setting compression?  What?  I thought it was just a Volkswagen?", or "I used to just slap them together and go." 
In fairness, most of these guys have all-out race cars that are never on the street, though I still can't say I would slap together a race engine, not with the money involved.

One guy said I was talking way too technical when I was talking about some of the engine building issues I was up against.  Another yet said he can put a small block Chevy together in an hour and a half.

Sometimes it sucks to be the only VW guy in a pond of American muscle...but I gotta say I'm surprised some of these guys don't know more about the inner details.

[Bruce]

Just ask them what they know about setting pushrod length. 
The vast majority of V8 guys don't have a clue because their deck heights are fixed so you just drop in stock length pushrods.

[bugnut68]

Just ask them what they know about setting pushrod length. 
The vast majority of V8 guys don't have a clue because their deck heights are fixed so you just drop in stock length pushrods.

Yeah, most of the time I find some way to good humoredly move the conversation along... easier than trying to explain things that I'm still learning myself.

[Jim Ratto]

Guys I knew in high school that ran El Caminos, Chevelles, Fairlanes, etc, all the same story (especially back then @ 17-18 yr old). Back then I didn't have the dough to build a 2000cc+ motor, but I did start mimic-ing what I had learned about Porsche engines, and taking notes from my future boss, Jerry @ Buggy House. So I ran a pretty tuned 1641 that was the thorn in most of these v8 guys' sides. They never could grasp why a guy would run "4 barrels" on a VW (two DRLAs) and always accused me of drowning my motor in over-carburetion. They couldn't grasp why I was "wasting my time" deburring and smoothing the inside of my "block" (as they called it). They were accustomed to stall converters and Performer manifolds and vacuum vs mechanical secondaries. But if we crossed paths on the street on Saturday night, my little VW would give them hell. I kept in touch with soem of these guys past high school, and some of them kept their rides, as I did. I started to make a little more money, and gained vastly more access to parts and "know how" through my work, hence my car got faster. In the mid 90's I lined up with an ex classmate one day in his '69 Z28, me in my super flowed/FK87 light switch. he didn't have a chance. This same story of "VW vs V8" isn't new, it's been that way since Sarge and his bros were kicking ass and taking names @ Big Carl's. You'd think the V8 guys would have evolved to "survive", you know like Darwin? Guess not.
It takes me over 50 hr to setup, mock and build a VW motor. Imagine if we were cursed with 4 more cylinders and 8 more valves to set up? 

[Zach Gomulka]

I don't understand how guys that bracket race their own cars (American iron) at our local track can't have a greater understanding of what it takes to build an engine.  Guys in my club are always asking me why my new engine isn't done yet (it's a Volkswagen, how hard can it be?)  Last night I was attempting to explain my difficulties in checking head chamber volume for setting compression/determining compression ratio, and some of them said things like, "Setting compression?  What?  I thought it was just a Volkswagen?", or "I used to just slap them together and go." 

Ask them if they ever built any engine that puts out 3-4 times what the stock engine did.

[bugnut68]

I don't understand how guys that bracket race their own cars (American iron) at our local track can't have a greater understanding of what it takes to build an engine.  Guys in my club are always asking me why my new engine isn't done yet (it's a Volkswagen, how hard can it be?)  Last night I was attempting to explain my difficulties in checking head chamber volume for setting compression/determining compression ratio, and some of them said things like, "Setting compression?  What?  I thought it was just a Volkswagen?", or "I used to just slap them together and go." 

Ask them if they ever built any engine that puts out 3-4 times what the stock engine did.

I'll remember that...;-)  In all honesty, the one guy in our club that used to build VWs I think mainly did dune buggy stuff.  A fast VW street car is a novelty out this way.  Though, in all honesty and contrast, a lot of the guys that have been at it a while remember the Inch Pincher... go figure!

[javabug]

V8 guys have "headroom" that we don't...there's something in the Fisher book about that...

[mr horsepower]

Wow !  i build v8 s for my work and i do the same as i do on a vw,
its easy to talk about hp ,
but what i talk about is hp per liter thats a whole different thing for that guys
thats why my 5,0 s run better then most 454, 7.4 liter chevy
hp per liter thats the real thing and you have to work hard to get it done on a v8 and other engines
but its nice to kick some v8 asses whith my 1,9 l bug and tell them the can t  tune an engine.

gr henr.

[bugnut68]

Wow !  i build v8 s for my work and i do the same as i do on a vw,
its easy to talk about hp ,
but what i talk about is hp per liter thats a whole different thing for that guys
thats why my 5,0 s run better then most 454, 7.4 liter chevy
hp per liter thats the real thing and you have to work hard to get it done on a v8 and other engines
but its nice to kick some v8 asses whith my 1,9 l bug and tell them the can t  tune an engine.

gr henr.

My uncle's a total horsepower number thrower.  He's always talking about engines that a family member with a shop builds that put out these insane numbers, and I don't think I've ever heard of them being put on a dyno.  That's the proof in the pudding.  When I complained to him about the machine shop in his town that wouldn't work on my VW stuff (balancing and honing), he totally stuck up for the guy, saying he probably wouldn't make any money on it, since he's into the "high performance stuff," and not VW stuff.  I wasn't about to risk an argument of any kind, as my uncle hasn't been exposed to the potential of Volkswagens ever.

The shop I speak of in question I called three times; twice I left messages, never got a call back.  Third time I got some guy, presumably a right-hand man of the owner, and he was supposed to get back to me the next day and never called, so I said "screw this."  Any machinist worth his salt with all the tooling can work on ANYTHING, or at least this is the impression i got.  As I felt he was throwing an attitude of being above VW stuff, I wrote him off and now will be getting my engine parts balanced while on vacation in my old hometown.
I absolutely can't stand elitism of any kind, but realize life's too short to get hung up on it.

[Zach Gomulka]

Wow !  i build v8 s for my work and i do the same as i do on a vw,
its easy to talk about hp ,
but what i talk about is hp per liter thats a whole different thing for that guys
thats why my 5,0 s run better then most 454, 7.4 liter chevy
hp per liter thats the real thing and you have to work hard to get it done on a v8 and other engines
but its nice to kick some v8 asses whith my 1,9 l bug and tell them the can t  tune an engine.

gr henr.

My uncle's a total horsepower number thrower.  He's always talking about engines that a family member with a shop builds that put out these insane numbers, and I don't think I've ever heard of them being put on a dyno.  That's the proof in the pudding.  When I complained to him about the machine shop in his town that wouldn't work on my VW stuff (balancing and honing), he totally stuck up for the guy, saying he probably wouldn't make any money on it, since he's into the "high performance stuff," and not VW stuff.  I wasn't about to risk an argument of any kind, as my uncle hasn't been exposed to the potential of Volkswagens ever.

The shop I speak of in question I called three times; twice I left messages, never got a call back.  Third time I got some guy, presumably a right-hand man of the owner, and he was supposed to get back to me the next day and never called, so I said "screw this."  Any machinist worth his salt with all the tooling can work on ANYTHING, or at least this is the impression i got.  As I felt he was throwing an attitude of being above VW stuff, I wrote him off and now will be getting my engine parts balanced while on vacation in my old hometown.
I absolutely can't stand elitism of any kind, but realize life's too short to get hung up on it.

You should go 94's 

[bugnut68]

Wow !  i build v8 s for my work and i do the same as i do on a vw,
its easy to talk about hp ,
but what i talk about is hp per liter thats a whole different thing for that guys
thats why my 5,0 s run better then most 454, 7.4 liter chevy
hp per liter thats the real thing and you have to work hard to get it done on a v8 and other engines
but its nice to kick some v8 asses whith my 1,9 l bug and tell them the can t  tune an engine.

gr henr.

Believe it or not, that thought cursively crossed my mind once or twice recently... but ultimately I dismissed it, as my heads are done and bored to 90.5's, my case is all done and I just don't have it in me to ship the case out again (50 bucks round trip to SoCal) or the funds for 94's at this stage.  My goal, which is pretty reasonable, is to have the engine running and broken in before the first race of next year here in Lakeview (April 2011)... maybe toward the end of this season, as the last race is in mid-September, but I don't work fast or hurried.  Everybody local is bugging me to slap it together and call it good, but that's not how I do things.  That, and my time is mighty limited when I can work on it.

My uncle's a total horsepower number thrower.  He's always talking about engines that a family member with a shop builds that put out these insane numbers, and I don't think I've ever heard of them being put on a dyno.  That's the proof in the pudding.  When I complained to him about the machine shop in his town that wouldn't work on my VW stuff (balancing and honing), he totally stuck up for the guy, saying he probably wouldn't make any money on it, since he's into the "high performance stuff," and not VW stuff.  I wasn't about to risk an argument of any kind, as my uncle hasn't been exposed to the potential of Volkswagens ever.

The shop I speak of in question I called three times; twice I left messages, never got a call back.  Third time I got some guy, presumably a right-hand man of the owner, and he was supposed to get back to me the next day and never called, so I said "screw this."  Any machinist worth his salt with all the tooling can work on ANYTHING, or at least this is the impression i got.  As I felt he was throwing an attitude of being above VW stuff, I wrote him off and now will be getting my engine parts balanced while on vacation in my old hometown.
I absolutely can't stand elitism of any kind, but realize life's too short to get hung up on it.

You should go 94's 

[m.m.p]

Wow !  i build v8 s for my work and i do the same as i do on a vw,
its easy to talk about hp ,
but what i talk about is hp per liter thats a whole different thing for that guys
thats why my 5,0 s run better then most 454, 7.4 liter chevy
hp per liter thats the real thing and you have to work hard to get it done on a v8 and other engines
but its nice to kick some v8 asses whith my 1,9 l bug and tell them the can t  tune an engine.

gr henr.

thats funny, cos my old motor running in matt keens car makes 4.7hp per CID
so that 454 should be making 2133hp!! hahaha!!!!
yea crappy VW engines!!

[Gabetion2000]

When you get your little 170hp vw motor built , take your uncle out for a ride and scare the bajesus out of him.

lol

[bugnut68]

When you get your little 170hp vw motor built , take your uncle out for a ride and scare the bajesus out of him.

lol

Might cause some family politics issues....