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Author Topic: 2017 build  (Read 18973 times)
bugnut68
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« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2010, 18:38:54 pm »

Sounds good. Yeah it is tough when a decision can make or literally break an engine. There were a few occasions when I was worried about a choice I made, but it all worked out in the end. That is one reason why I chose to build my engine. If something went wrong I could only blame myself.

I suppose one way for me to look at it is to go with parts that have proven themselves already... I can't go wrong that way, so I may end up purchasing a Berg pump cover just on that basis.  I'll be getting stainless teflon oil lines custom made anyways, may as well kill two birds with one stone. Grin
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2010, 18:55:05 pm »

Yet another inquiry: oil pump covers.  Is there one that's better over others, i.e., steel versus aluminum?  I have a generic aluminum one I am considering using, just wondering if there's pros and cons to each type of pump cover.  I'm trying to use parts I currently have, but also wish to avoid issues of leaks and what not.  Had no issues with my Berg pump cover on the last engine.

some of the aluminum ones I've taken off motors have shown that gears were wearing inside surface of cover. If guys didn't want to use a new iron cover, I'd just drag the alum cover on a belt sander. I've run the same Berg cover on my car since 1991, no gear wear. Same oil pump since 2007 (last one bit the dust when part of outer spring went through it.... Roll Eyes)

The Berg book of instructions and Bill Fisher Book are invaluable references when checking tolerances. Some of the OE specs will suit a high perf motor, but not always. Another excellent book to own is AG Bell's "Four Stroke Performance Tuning" avail from Haynes publisher. Probably best book I've found on setting up any highly tuned motor, Austin, Ford, Porsche , VW, etc... they're all covered.
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
bugnut68
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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2010, 16:51:22 pm »

Whilest waiting to make progress in other areas, quick question on DRLA float heights.  I'd read it's supposed to be 6mm, with the float at its level setting (not fully down, and not fully depress, either).  Just curious as to the validity of this info, and how to properly set the height without damaging (read: destroying, lol) the float.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2010, 17:02:08 pm »

Whilest waiting to make progress in other areas, quick question on DRLA float heights.  I'd read it's supposed to be 6mm, with the float at its level setting (not fully down, and not fully depress, either).  Just curious as to the validity of this info, and how to properly set the height without damaging (read: destroying, lol) the float.

Anyone?
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bugnut68
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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2010, 16:40:18 pm »

Keep bumping this thread up in hopes someone will bite... Grin

My next question pertains to rocker arm side clearance.  Using 1.25's from CB Performance, along with their bolt together rocker shafts.  I've tried and tried, but can't seem to get any closer than .009" side clearance on the No. 3 intake valve rocker and both No. 4 cylinder rockers.  The No. 3 exhaust rocker has .011" clearance.  Seems everytime I get one or more of them closer then one or two of them start to bind on the shaft.  Any tips, or are these numbers acceptable?  I always read .005-.007" side clearance, and I figure as the engine wears in they'll get even looser.
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Donny B.
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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2010, 19:55:01 pm »

I always set the side play on the rockers pretty tight. You are right they will loosen up.  I found that when I set it over .003 they would make an awful racket and everyone would tell me to adjust my valves.  I set them to about .001.  It would be interesting to see what others do.
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Don Bulitta
Wolfsburg Registry
Felix/DFL
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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2010, 20:07:54 pm »

I even set them very tight otherwise they get noisy as Donny B said

But beware of the movement of the whole rocker shafts when setting play.

Knock sligthly on one end of the shaft and tighten the shaft.
check play
loosen the shaft and knock at the other end.
check play

and you will see that the play is differnet... That`s because the shaft can move sligthly on the mounting bolts of the shaft.
I always mark the shafts in the direction I knock the shaft before tightening.

I always had to sand the shims,end caps, rockers or rockermounts to get the best side play.

Have fun!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 20:09:32 pm by Felix/DFL » Logged
bugnut68
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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2010, 20:09:01 pm »

I always set the side play on the rockers pretty tight. You are right they will loosen up.  I found that when I set it over .003 they would make an awful racket and everyone would tell me to adjust my valves.  I set them to about .001.  It would be interesting to see what others do.

I can't remember how I did it on my 1776 aside from trial and error... Grin  Sometimes that's the only way to go, a shim here, a shim there, and then bolt it and torque it all down to see where we're at.  I think I'm going to have to buy some more shims, though, as I don't have much left to work with.  I have a few nickel and dime pieces I need to order, anyhoo, not a big deal.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2010, 17:04:16 pm »

The biggest point of frustration with these CB Performance bolt-together rocker shafts is the fact that changing shims on one end totally effects the clearances on the other end.  I'm struggling to get any degree of consistency so I can know what direction to go in terms of getting clearances correct.  Rocker arms either end up loosey goosey or else some loose, and others locked up on the shaft, too tight.
Also have a set of used Berg rocker shafts I may try, since they have the center spacer with a set screw in place... not sure, but I'm thinking that may be the way to go.
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Brandon Sinclair
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« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2010, 17:50:05 pm »

I am assuming that the center spacer on that bolt together kit slides from side to side.  If that is the case I would just drill a hole in the middle of the spacer and tap it and get an allen head set screw and loctite it in place so it would be fixed like the Berg rocker.  Then it would be easier to set up the side play on the rocker arms.

Even after everything is set up nice and tight after your break in period and a few hundred miles I notice that I always have to tighten up the side play on a few rocker arms.  Just part of the job.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 18:11:30 pm »

I am assuming that the center spacer on that bolt together kit slides from side to side.  If that is the case I would just drill a hole in the middle of the spacer and tap it and get an allen head set screw and loctite it in place so it would be fixed like the Berg rocker.  Then it would be easier to set up the side play on the rocker arms.

Even after everything is set up nice and tight after your break in period and a few hundred miles I notice that I always have to tighten up the side play on a few rocker arms.  Just part of the job.

I never have checked to see how the rockers on my 1776 settled in, even after 5K miles.  Noise never seemed excessive, though I did have steel pushrods.  Aside from that, not bad in the least.  I may check that out while installing that motor into my buddy's Baja, as I sold the 1776 in order to fund this new 2017 lump. Grin
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DKK Ted
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« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2010, 19:13:58 pm »

Say Ryan, those CB 1.25's your using, are they the VW style ones or the swiper ones, meaning you need lash caps.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
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« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2010, 19:20:12 pm »

Say Ryan, those CB 1.25's your using, are they the VW style ones or the swiper ones, meaning you need lash caps.

Ted

They are VW style, with the adjuster at the valve...
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bugnut68
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« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2010, 16:29:51 pm »

Fiddled with the engine a bit last night after a local car club meeting... amazing how much easier the shimming to side clearance chore is with the Berg rocker shafts.  I seriously wonder why all the companies are making their rocker shafts with a set screw in the center spacer.  Roll Eyes
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bugnut68
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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2010, 16:39:38 pm »

Well, after determining pushrod length from what I read in the Berg blue book and elsewhere, my geometry is spot-on at half lift, but that's where I have a question. I'm running an Engle 125 cam with a set of the CB Performance Super Stock 1.25 rocker arms.  I'm only getting .495" lift at the valve, total, whereas in theory it should be .522" or so.  This ratio with the actual lift comes out to 1.18, at my last calculation.  I seem to remember that my genuine VW 1.25s in my 1776 were off a bit, as well, but I was wondering if there's a way to ensure I get full lift out of this cam and these rockers, or is it just "what it is?"
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bugnut68
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« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2010, 18:36:11 pm »

Well, after asking a few questions here and there, I'm satisfied with where the valvetrain lies. Grin  I got lucky and my geometry was spot on at half-lift.  Valve to piston clearance is ample, too.  Next step is to check ring gaps before a thorough cleaning and then final assembly.

Regarding end play: I've always done it previously with the long block fully assembled, but I saw an article in a magazine where one shop did it in the short block stage (no cylinders/heads assembled yet).  Any thoughts??  Huh
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Peter
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« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2010, 18:50:34 pm »

think its better in short block,
the less parts the better i think
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bugnut68
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« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 18:57:07 pm »

think its better in short block,
the less parts the better i think

Cool, will be addressing this step soon. Grin 
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bugnut68
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« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2010, 18:29:59 pm »

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but I'm curious about carb jetting.

I've got a pair of 45 DRLA Dellortos with 38mm venturis.  Jets currently in them include 75 idles, 200 main air correctors, 180 mains (I believe) and can't remember the emulsion tubes.  Just wondering where I need to go to get into the ball park when I fire this engine for the first time.

To reiterate the specs: 2017, 42x37.5mm valves, 8.5:1 compression, 1-5/8" exhaust.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2010, 16:38:42 pm »

Anyone?
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bugnut68
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« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2010, 04:34:34 am »

Bugpack and Berg are the only ones that sell 36mm gland nuts.

Use a 3 foot long cheater pipe on a 3/4" breaker bar with a 1 1/2" socket and apply all of your weight on the very end of the cheater bar to apply maximum torque. Assuming you weigh 150lbs it will apply 450lbs at the gland nut. For every foot of breaker bar length, the torque is doubled. Not exactly accurate, but people have been doing it this way for decades.

Quick question, as I'm about ready to try this myself... do I slide the cheater pipe all the way down to the socket end of the breaker bar?  Or is it three feet off the end of the breaker bar handle?  Just curious.
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stealth67vw
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« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2010, 04:39:29 am »

3 feet from the socket.
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John Bates
JB Machining Services
Bruce
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« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2010, 06:08:58 am »

You measure from the center of rotation of the nut.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2010, 17:15:59 pm »

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2010, 00:49:37 am »

I'm looking at running NGK plugs... but which ones should I be looking at for this engine combo?  I've got 3/4 reach plugs in the Steve Tims Stage II heads, if that helps.  Thanks!
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Bruce
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« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2010, 01:36:45 am »

12 or 14mm thread?
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bugnut68
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« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2010, 01:48:55 am »

12 or 14mm thread?

May have to check with Tims, but they're based on 043 Mexican castings.
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javabug
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WHAT'S UP WID DA BOOM BOOM???


« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2010, 02:05:54 am »

Same castings as my K-Roc heads.  BCP7ES.  These have the small 5/8" socket size. 
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Mike H.

Sven was right.
Bruce
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« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2010, 07:03:03 am »

12 or 14mm thread?
May have to check with Tims, but they're based on 043 Mexican castings.
This is something you should be able to figure out for yourself.
The latest Mex 043 heads used an M14 plug.
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bugnut68
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« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2010, 23:49:55 pm »

12 or 14mm thread?
May have to check with Tims, but they're based on 043 Mexican castings.
This is something you should be able to figure out for yourself.
The latest Mex 043 heads used an M14 plug.

You're right Bruce, and in fact I forgot I'd already threaded in a set of run of the mill Bosch W8ACs (forgive me if the number is incorrect as I'm rattling off the top of my head here at the office) for the purpose of measuring the chamber volume... they are indeed 14mm threads.
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