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Author Topic: 2017 build  (Read 19021 times)
bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2010, 23:53:55 pm »

Okay, so I got the flywheel torqued on today and everything's all buttoned up.  End play measures in at .070", which seems awful extreme to me.  What would cause this?  I know that the rule of thumb for end play shims is three, but what does one do if one has to take up that much more clearance?  Is it an issue with the thrust bearing, and if so, what do I look for?
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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2010, 00:27:45 am »

Ryan, .007 or .070? Is that with no shims?

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
Hero Member
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2010, 00:34:48 am »

Ryan, .007 or .070? Is that with no shims?

Ted

Hi Ted, that's with no shims, 070" in total... seems awful excessive to me.
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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2010, 00:38:47 am »

YA! Who's crank and flywheel are you running?
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2010, 00:40:03 am »

YA! Who's crank and flywheel are you running?

DPR 78.4mm welded counterweighted crank, brand new CB performance chromeoly flywheel.

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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2010, 00:51:29 am »

DPR is good, but I think it's your flywheel.. You can either run 4 shims, or call Jose @ DPR and tell him about your problem. Maybe need to have the inside suface cut to give you less endplay. Im a strong believer of German flywheels. There is a set dim. between the two surfaces of the flywheel. Ask Jose. I can look at one of my flywheels a little later and get back to you also. I would call Jose @ DPR. You sure there was nothing between the crank and flywheel?

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
Bruce
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Posts: 1390


« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2010, 00:51:37 am »

..... that's with no shims, 070" in total... seems awful excessive to me.
Put some shims in.
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bugnut68
Hero Member
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2010, 16:45:10 pm »

Key engine build technique obviously is to check, double check and triple check everything... went back home last night and checked things over... the flywheel wasn't fully seated.  Got 'er torqued down using a 24-inch breaker bar the best I could (the engine case kept wanting to turn over on me, did what I could to hold it down while tightening the gland nut), and the end play shored up to .038". 

The issue I currently have is keeping the engine still while tightening the gland nut.  I've got an old and pretty sh*tty rollaway engine stand that doesn't keep the engine in place even for minor torqueing procedures.  I'm thinking my only option is to have a burly buddy come over and hold the engine case while I use the breaker bar... anybody have any other suggestions?
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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2010, 17:17:11 pm »

Buy one of those torqe tools, I have an original one that a good friend gave me, works real good, don't take much to work. If your thinking of building anymore motors, good investment. Glad it all worked out though Ryan.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2010, 17:28:47 pm »

Buy one of those torqe tools, I have an original one that a good friend gave me, works real good, don't take much to work. If your thinking of building anymore motors, good investment. Glad it all worked out though Ryan.

Ted

I've got one of those, Ted, but it doesn't work with a 1-1/2" gland nut, unfortunately.  I'm thinking I would have been money ahead to ship the damn Scat gland nut back to the idiots who told me it was 36mm and bought the Bugpack or Berg 36mm gland nut.  Spent more than 50 bucks this weekend betweed the socket and the breaker bar.

I don't want to permanently change my torque tool by welding a 1-1/2" socket to it, so I guess I'm stuck... lol.
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manoa
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« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2010, 18:10:58 pm »

oh, oh...should've just got the Berg unit:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=634870



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bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2010, 18:20:44 pm »

oh, oh...should've just got the Berg unit:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=634870





This fumbling around with a breaker bar stuff is kind of annoying, especially when there's no one else around to give me an extra set of hands or arms... Grin I may just accept the breaker bar and socket as an extra set of tools in the garage, and make the investment in the 36mm gland nut.  When it comes to tools there's no such thing as having too many, I reckon!
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bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2010, 04:48:50 am »

Any tips on how to remove the eight-doweled flywheel once it's on an assembled short block?  I will say in advance that I do not have an air hammer and very limited air tools of any sort.  I'm considering renting the Aircooled.net tool, as I won't need it more than 30 days, since I now know my end play situation.  Just don't want to gnarl up my dowel pin holes.
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Jim Ratto
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Posts: 7114



« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2010, 17:59:47 pm »

Key engine build technique obviously is to check, double check and triple check everything... went back home last night and checked things over... the flywheel wasn't fully seated.  Got 'er torqued down using a 24-inch breaker bar the best I could (the engine case kept wanting to turn over on me, did what I could to hold it down while tightening the gland nut), and the end play shored up to .038". 

The issue I currently have is keeping the engine still while tightening the gland nut.  I've got an old and pretty sh*tty rollaway engine stand that doesn't keep the engine in place even for minor torqueing procedures.  I'm thinking my only option is to have a burly buddy come over and hold the engine case while I use the breaker bar... anybody have any other suggestions?
I bought a Bugpack helping hand tool 15 yr ago just for that reason, it's been a lifesaver
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DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
bugnut68
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2010, 19:17:17 pm »

A new set screw for the engine stand has made a world of difference!  Got the gland nut loose last night on the stand, now just fighting with getting the flywheel itself off the eight dowels.
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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2010, 21:30:24 pm »

If ya have two big screw drivers, put them behind the flywheel between case and work it off, usually works.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
manoa
Newbie
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Posts: 3


« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2010, 06:21:31 am »

I'm gonna build me one of these:





Read all about it:

http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/flywheelpuller.htm

Just another option...
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DKK Ted
DKK
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« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2010, 06:39:32 am »

RLR makes a real nice one, a little pricey though, but it works real good especially on wedgemated flywheels.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
Hero Member
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2010, 17:04:48 pm »

Yeah, I tried last night to use a couple big screwdrivers with even pressure, also tried another method of tapping the outer perimeter of the flywheel while applying leverage with one screwdriver, that sumbitch didn't even budge!  Lol. Grin  I'm suspecting there may be burrs in the dowel pin holes from when they were redrilled for 11/32 dowel pins.  My fault for not checking when mocking it up to set end play.
Ted, that's the tool John C. at Aircooled.net has for rent.  I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and rent it.  Since I can use it for 30 days, I will get the job done with ease and not have to sweat it anymore.  Only bummer is the delay in being able to work on the engine, but once I have the tool it should speed up progress greatly.

I would buy it, but am short on funds right now.  That's something I suspect I could use many times over.  Once this engine is done, I suspect I won't be going back to stock stroke engines anymore...Grin
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2010, 17:06:14 pm »

I'm gonna build me one of these:





Read all about it:

http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/flywheelpuller.htm

Just another option...

I found that in a Google search, but found it very vague as to exactly HOW to make it.  Fabricating tools is not my strong point, unfortunately!  Wink
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Peter
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Posts: 1290



« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2010, 17:48:42 pm »

hey dude,
i made a puller with a rectangular bar, with in the middle a very big nut welded on,
at both ends a hole to mount it to the flywheel,
i put a plate between the big bolt and gland nut not to damage the gland nut and you can screw in the big bolt against the gland nut and so it will pull the flywheel off;
you have to loosen the gland nut first off course and the looser the flywheel comes, the more you turn out the gland nut.
I always work with a play of 1 mm and loosen in stages.
it cost me nothing! Smiley
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2010, 18:51:30 pm »

hey dude,
i made a puller with a rectangular bar, with in the middle a very big nut welded on,
at both ends a hole to mount it to the flywheel,
i put a plate between the big bolt and gland nut not to damage the gland nut and you can screw in the big bolt against the gland nut and so it will pull the flywheel off;
you have to loosen the gland nut first off course and the looser the flywheel comes, the more you turn out the gland nut.
I always work with a play of 1 mm and loosen in stages.
it cost me nothing! Smiley

I think, outside of having someone weld on the big nut to the bar, I could probably handle making something like that!  For now I chickened out and rented the puller from Aircooled.net.  Trying to get this engine built before we get too far into the fall season.  Even if the engine isnt' running by then, I'm hoping to get the garage cleaned up so I can park my '63 in there once more. Grin
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2010, 19:49:29 pm »

hey dude,
i made a puller with a rectangular bar, with in the middle a very big nut welded on,
at both ends a hole to mount it to the flywheel,
i put a plate between the big bolt and gland nut not to damage the gland nut and you can screw in the big bolt against the gland nut and so it will pull the flywheel off;
you have to loosen the gland nut first off course and the looser the flywheel comes, the more you turn out the gland nut.
I always work with a play of 1 mm and loosen in stages.
it cost me nothing! Smiley

I think, outside of having someone weld on the big nut to the bar, I could probably handle making something like that!  For now I chickened out and rented the puller from Aircooled.net.  Trying to get this engine built before we get too far into the fall season.  Even if the engine isnt' running by then, I'm hoping to get the garage cleaned up so I can park my '63 in there once more. Grin

Thinking by now I probably could have made this tool if I had attempted to source out some bar stock and someone to weld the nut on.  Placed my order a week ago Friday with Aircooled.net and just found out this past Thursday there's no one around to update me on the status of my order since the parts mgr. is gone until next Tuesday... Roll Eyes  The good news, of course, is I haven't been charged, but I'm just eager to start making progress on this engine... can't do anything further at this point until I have the tool.
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2010, 19:51:32 pm »

Curious about carburetor venturies... I had a recommendation recently to step down to either 40mm carbs for my combo or else go down on the venturi size... given my elevation is 4,800 feet, what are the general thoughts on venturi size with relation to elevation?  I was told my engine will be pretty lazy with 38mm vents, and that the engine would like 40mm Dellortos better than 45's... any thoughts?
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2010, 23:00:27 pm »

Curious about carburetor venturies... I had a recommendation recently to step down to either 40mm carbs for my combo or else go down on the venturi size... given my elevation is 4,800 feet, what are the general thoughts on venturi size with relation to elevation?  I was told my engine will be pretty lazy with 38mm vents, and that the engine would like 40mm Dellortos better than 45's... any thoughts?


Anyone??
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bugnut68
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1749


« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2010, 19:26:36 pm »

Curious about carburetor venturies... I had a recommendation recently to step down to either 40mm carbs for my combo or else go down on the venturi size... given my elevation is 4,800 feet, what are the general thoughts on venturi size with relation to elevation?  I was told my engine will be pretty lazy with 38mm vents, and that the engine would like 40mm Dellortos better than 45's... any thoughts?

Bump.  Still looking for some suggestions...
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Peter
Hero Member
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Posts: 1290



« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2010, 22:01:33 pm »

wish i could help you,
but i dont know anything about carbs Sad Sad
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stealth67vw
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Posts: 2255



« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2010, 03:25:39 am »

General rule of thumb is 2mm smaller than your intake valve. Stepping down to 40s would be a step backwards unless you plan on commuting to work long distances to work and your worried about Smug pollution. Grin
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:01:21 am by stealth67vw » Logged

John Bates
JB Machining Services
DKK Ted
DKK
Hero Member
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Posts: 1879



« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2010, 07:46:39 am »

General rule of thumb is 2mm smaller than your intake valve. Stepping down to 40s would be a step backwards unless you plan on commuting to work long distances to work and your worried about Smug pollution. Grin
Ryan, John is right, stick with ya got, use the 38 Chokes and try it, you need air speed, if it response good and plugs look good, your good.

Ted
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VW Classic 2012
bugnut68
Hero Member
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Posts: 1749


« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2010, 17:16:04 pm »

Smug pollution?  "Good for youuuuuu! Thaaaaanks!" Grin  A little South Park reference for John Boy there...lol.

Thanks guys, will stick with the 38s on this combo.
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