Help with Adjusting shift forks swing axel

[SMO]

Have to adjust the shift fork for 3 and 4 gears. Have Bug Packs special tool for transmission.

Havn´t done this before, can anyone tell me some good info about this, or maybe have a manual to share or pics.

The trans is restored last summer but the 3 gear pops out in high torque.

Trans is from 62 typ1 , scat superdiff with double snapring, welded 3 and 4 gear.
hardered keys and empi HP drive shafts , oem gear ratio.

Please post your experiences about this operation.

//Magnus

[Bruce]

Trans is from 62 typ1 ,

This is easy.  You take the whole transmission and throw it away.  It is JUNK.  61-63 transmissioins should NEVER be used for more than 34bhp.
Find a newer trans and put your parts into it.  Try for a 70s one.
This is the equivalent to trying to build a 2332cc turbo engine using a 1200cc engine case.

[SMO]

Thanx Bruce for a good answer! Will do that right away.

Ok can you tel me what is bad with the transmission ? 61-63 vs 64- with same
ring & pinion ?
I have a new Rhino case at the bench but it´s ment for
a another car.. 

May be some one can type down a basic how to ? to get everything out and other
necessary data and info.

// Magnus

[Bruce]

The bearing that supports the pinion head is the most important bearing in the whole gearbox.  Later gearboxes used a double row roller bearing.  Yours uses a double row ball bearing.  The ball bearing is not able to support nearly as much load as the roller bearing.

The 1-2 shift rod in a later gearbox is extra long, such that it is supported in the gear carrier, and all the way at the other end beside the pinion bearing.  When they designed yours, they never thought of this, so it is only supported in the gear carrier.  Being very far from the support, it is subject to lateral loading.  If you have an early trans that pops out of 1st or 2nd, this is the reason.

Your 1-2 slider is 26mm wide instead of 25mm wide.  You may think this is good, but no.  The reason they narrowed the slider is to give it more travel.  It means the slider can engage 1st and 2nd by ½mm more at the dog teeth.  This doesn't sound like much, but when you only have about 2-2½mm of engagement to begin with, adding ½mm is huge.

First gear is narrower in 61-63s.  And it's the weak 10 tooth gear too.

You won't find new synchro rings for 1st gear.  They haven't been available for decades.  Rebuilders have been upgrading to the later 1st gear so they can use a later synchro.

An obvious change is the # of bolts holding the ring gear on.  Yours uses only 6.  Later ones use 8 bolts.  Just as a comparison, the early Porsche gearbox has a similar size ring gear that uses TWELVE bolts.

There are many other minor changes VW made over the years.  VW was always improving the design up until the end of German Type 1 transmission production.  The newer the gearbox, the more upgrades it got.

I'll say it again, you wouldn't build a 2332 engine with a 1200cc engine case, would you?

[SMO]

there you go thanx for the info, good info.
No i wouldn´t build a 2332cc engine based on 1200 engine.

Problem is that this gear box still lives and i only have to adjust the 3 and 4 fork.

There is an old transmission ledgend in sweden how built this for me last year but
the third gear has never been good. So a smal adjust is what it need.

I have a new rhino case and some other new parts for my new gear box but its
finished next summer maybe.

[Bruce]

the third gear has never been good. So a smal adjust is what it need.

Popping out of 3rd isn't an adjustment problem.  The parts associated with 3rd are bad and need replacement.

[SMO]

Strange, 3 gear works well before rebuilt, new sync rings and hubs.

i have put the transmission apart now and i can´t see any strange.
But the hockey stick is very bad, there is no ball left at the top.
Almost flat. I have a new one i can try.

[Rasser]

Strange, 3 gear works well before rebuilt, new sync rings and hubs.

i have put the transmission apart now and i can´t see any strange.
But the hockey stick is very bad, there is no ball left at the top.
Almost flat. I have a new one i can try.

If you had a working gearbox, and then changed the sync rings AND hub.... and then it starts popping out of 3. gear.........  well then I would change back to the old hub which worked.

Its the teeth on the hub and gear that holds the tranny in gear under load, if they don´t match or is worn, then it starts popping out of gears. Normally it starts with 4. gear popping out while driving.

;-)

[Bruce]

But the hockey stick is very bad, there is no ball left at the top.
Almost flat.

What is that? 
Pic?

[SMO]

Yes her is some pics http://ausbrechervwmange.blogspot.com/

[SMO]

Strange, 3 gear works well before rebuilt, new sync rings and hubs.

i have put the transmission apart now and i can´t see any strange.
But the hockey stick is very bad, there is no ball left at the top.
Almost flat. I have a new one i can try.

If you had a working gearbox, and then changed the sync rings AND hub.... and then it starts popping out of 3. gear.........  well then I would change back to the old hub which worked.

Its the teeth on the hub and gear that holds the tranny in gear under load, if they don´t match or is worn, then it starts popping out of gears. Normally it starts with 4. gear popping out while driving.

;-)

I realy don´t know if he changed thu hub, just know that he changed some hub. The thing is that the 3 and 4 gear goes very smooth now then i have al apart. 3 gear goes in possition.
When i hade the gearbox in the car you didn´t fel that the 3 gear steped in enough, feels like the shifter hit the bottom. Better result when i adjust the shift cuplier but not real good.

Another thing i wounder about is, in some manuals you can read about spring and ball behind the plugs side of the housing, To hold the gears so they don pop out, i don´t have any balls and springs in there ? I can´t see any jacks or holes on the fork axel so some ball candrop in to. Hope you anderstand what i mean

[Rasser]

did you try with another shifter before tearing the gearbox apart - sounds like the old one was badly adjusted.

The hockey stick is supposed to be flat like that!

[Bruce]

The tip of the hockey stick is supposed to be like the one on the left.  The one on the right is a badly made replacement.

The detent balls for the shift rods are not intended to hold the car in gear, the backcut on the dog teeth do that.

See in your pic how the 1-2 shift rod ends just to the left of the fork?  The later one extends all the way into the housing at the far left of your pic beside the pinion bearing.

You are working with JUNK!

[mymedusa]

I'll say it again, you wouldn't build a 2332 engine with a 1200cc engine case, would you?

i would if the 1200cc case is from 72-74? or 76?

[SMO]

Yes i have tryed 3 different shift couplers OEM best result, Tryed different shifters same result all of them.
Urethane coupler from the states realy bad CC of the bults are 3-4 mm longer than OEM. Crap!

Yes Bruce, Most of the parts are from the states

[besserwisser]

Check that the slider and hub are facing the right way. Also on the dogring you have fields of wider and narower teeth. If the wide ones are worn grind them of and start driving on the thinner ones. Another reason for popping out of gear could be to much endplay on the 3rd and 4rth gearcluster. You should have sent me the box earlier cause I´m booked up to my ears untill I leave for the States on the 21st of august. Just because there are better gearboxes than yours doesnt mean its all that bad. Just stay away from the aftermarket  junk. Its possible to put a longer shiter in your gearbox but since you dont have any problems with 1st and 2nd why bother. Call me if you get stuck.

[SMO]

Check that the slider and hub are facing the right way. Also on the dogring you have fields of wider and narower teeth. If the wide ones are worn grind them of and start driving on the thinner ones. Another reason for popping out of gear could be to much endplay on the 3rd and 4rth gearcluster. You should have sent me the box earlier cause I´m booked up to my ears untill I leave for the States on the 21st of august. Just because there are better gearboxes than yours doesnt mean its all that bad. Just stay away from the aftermarket  junk. Its possible to put a longer shiter in your gearbox but since you dont have any problems with 1st and 2nd why bother. Call me if you get stuck.

Hello Hans !
Yes i spoke to you in may month about to send the box to you. I hade alot of work with my company and i couldn´t get the box out until now.
I have bought some tools for the gearbox and Par Andersson has alot of original gearbox tools, so now i think i try this by my own
I think this is´nt the last gearbox i will have problems with.

I have put the gearbox together now and i did some adjustments, a new hockey stick the old one ( ball ) was 9.40mm and new one 10.25mm
I hope the car is ready to SCC.

//M

[SMO]

Hi !
Can tell that the gear box work well so far after adjusting the shift fork for 3 and 4 gear.

3 gear dosn´t pop out now.

// Magnus