John luzenby's Butternutt 63 sedan

[Derjava66]

My original motivation for asking for pics was because I was thinking about a clone so to speak but it seems very well covered already. I really love that car and had a picture of it on my wall as a kid. I am still toying with the idea of doing only because there is not a similar one stateside yet. Im really torn now on wether or not to build a clone or just build something similar with that color combo. Anyway thanks for replying to my post John and if I happen to see you at an event soon I will introduce myself and hopefully you can tell me all the details of the original.

[lowfastbus]

Not a clone, but guess where I got my inspiration from:

[johnl]

My original motivation for asking for pics was because I was thinking about a clone so to speak but it seems very well covered already. I really love that car and had a picture of it on my wall as a kid. I am still toying with the idea of doing only because there is not a similar one stateside yet. I'm really torn now on wether or not to build a clone or just build something similar with that color combo. Anyway thanks for replying to my post John and if I happen to see you at an event soon I will introduce myself and hopefully you can tell me all the details of the original.

  Wow! a photo on your wall, I'm honored.   I would look forward to meeting you in person.  If you guys keep this up I may just have to build my own Butternut II.  Your thoughts???   

[speedwell]

go go go john build it 

fabs

[johnl]

go go go john build it 

fabs

Well, I'm not surprised to hear this....   

[Diederick/DVK]

[Derjava66]

Go for it! I think what I'm planning is to do something similar in that color with a few personal touches and different wheels. Mainly because because I can never afford real americans! I think it would be rad if you built #2.

[johnl]

Go for it! I think what I'm planning is to do something similar in that color with a few personal touches and different wheels. Mainly because because I can never afford real americans! I think it would be rad if you built #2.

If some of you guys will step up and purchase some of my Chryslers I can make this happen much quicker.  Think of it, you would have a great American Classic to drive and share and you can store your VW in the trunk...

[Derjava66]

Haha. I'm right there with yah John. I am trying to sell a 60's custom style 63 ford Galaxie to fund my build but no takers yet. I'm just dreaming and stocking up parts.

[Bryan67]

Let`s see the Galaxie.

[Derjava66]

Going to throw a fresh coat of primer on it soon and have the upoulstry done. [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Rick Meredith]

Love the Astros and thin WW.... needs some bellflower pipes. 

[Derjava66]

Bellflowers were the plan after paint but I might not own it long enough to paint it!

[butterskotch]

  Wow! a photo on your wall, I'm honored.   I would look forward to meeting you in person.  If you guys keep this up I may just have to build my own Butternut II.  Your thoughts???   
[/quote]

Go for it John, 

[butterskotch]

Go for it! I think what I'm planning is to do something similar in that color with a few personal touches and different wheels. Mainly because because I can never afford real americans! I think it would be rad if you built #2.

I say go for it,but then i do like the colour

What i will say tho is the colour, Warbonnet Yellow is a nightmare to work with as John will probably confirm. To start off with even tho i had the code for the paint by different manufacturers (Dupont etc) none of these manufacturers in Europe was able to match the code on their systems so i couldn't get the paint matched. In the end i had to speak to Dupont in the USA, explain the situation to them and they then kindly provided me with the mixing weights to make the colour.

The paint it self turned out to be quiet expensive as well. A normal liter of black,red etc is around £15 -25 a liter,Warbonnet Yellow costs around £100 a liter here in the UK.  .   That works out to a minimum of over £500 just for the colour alone . 

Then the paint ended up being a nightmare to work with. My friend/painter actually had painted the whole of the shell and then decided he wasn't happy with the front scuttle, so he decided to re do that section and blend it back in.The paint turned out to be a different colour, more greeny than gold. Even tho the paint he used came out of the same tin, with the same make laquer, painted with the same gun, in the same booth at the same temperature!?! Go figure. He then painted the scuttle for a second time, which turned out to be a completely different shade again! .  We decided the only way to make sure the whole car was the same colour all over was to flatten every panel back and shot the whole thing again in one go. Neither of us was happy about this as it delayed us both massively.

In the end tho the car is now all the same colour,the right colour, and what a colour .  My painter/friend said the paint works and reacts like a pearlescent even tho its not, and hes dreading the day i go back to him and ask for some touch ups or new bits to be painted.

It is a great colour tho.  To see how the colour changes depending on the light take a look at the following page of an original Warbonnet Yellow Vette. Same car in all the photos, yet loads of different colours, from burnt browny yellows to the butterskotch like colour in bright sunshine.
www.cardomain.com/ride/2426405/1971-chevrolet-corvette

[johnl]

I can completely relate to the comments above.  Back in the day (1971) GM had a gold that was used on many of their cars and then there was the Warbonnet Yellow for the "71 Vette ONLY.  At the same time Mercedes had a gold that I also liked, but it came down to the Warbonnet as being the ultimate gold for the day.

The first paint job was done by my longtime friend James "Babe" Cox in Fullerton who had painted the same car the Firemist Green a few years prior.  Babe also painted our current '63 sedan of 30 years this June in Black.  Believe it or not the cost for the black was $500, but I did all of the dissassembly and reassembly.

When I picked the car up from Babe I just wasn't happy with the color and there were some flaws.  Everyone was going to Becker's, but once again I had been marching to the different drummer.  Finally I towed the car to Leonard Becker and talked to him.  At first he didn't want to do it as he really like to paint nonmetallic because I guess it was easier, but finally agreed.  His work came out excellent and that is what you see in those early photos.

By 1974 issues were starting to appear in the paint and once again that was part of my selling the car.  Most never saw what I saw, but it stuck out to me and I wasn't happy, but didn't want to strip the car and start over.

Today there is a '71 Vette that comes to Cars & Coffee on a regular basis that is original.  The paint does not look anything like what I remember, but then that was just a cheap factory paint job of the day.

I'd definitely be concerned about doing repairs with the color as I don't know if you could match it even today.  Becker did some repair work for me within a year after he painted the ca and I could see the difference, but others didn't notice it.

[johnl]

The latest issue of Hot VW's arrived and in reading it I spotted the story on Shakey Jake, AKA Chuck Babbit, whom I knew back in the day.  I may have written about this before, but honestly don't remember, so here it is again.

When the Butternut car was complete Shakey was in the Costa Mesa Auto Haus Store one day and I happen to be there with my car.  We struck up a conversation about his striping talent.  I asked if he could do something different for me and he replied with, "What"?  I told him I'd like 2 ghost pin stripes down each side of the car basically where the trim had been previously been.  They had to be almost undetectable, which is about the opposite one wants with a pin strip.

He said he could handle that and so we took the front doors off the store and I drove the car in the main entry way.  As he did his magic a crowd gathered.  Within about 30 minutes the job was done and it was PERFECT.  In keeping with the entire theme of the car this was yet one suttle touch that no one had done and I can't say I've ever seen it duplicated on a VW to this day.

[johnl]

Here's a shot of the asthmatic Holley two-barrel combo John ran for a short time...

Jim Edmiston had stated this was a photo of my Butternut car and I'd said it was not.  I'd now like to correct this based on newly discovered photos.  When the car was done in late 1971 and early 1972 it was still running the 69X88 with a BugSpray.  At the time Christie and I were living in Garden Grove and the new photo I have is the same as Jim's shot except for the panels on within the engine compartment.  My photo shows body color and no aluminum panels.

This had to be for a short period of time as we soon moved to a house in Anaheim and that is were the 78.4X88 48IDA motor was built and installed.  Unfortunately I've not been able to locate photos of this engine yet and to be honest I don't now if they exist.

I'm working on converting numerous newly discovered slides to CD so that I can share them.  I've also found shots of the interior that I know a few have asked about.  Also, shots of the car in front of the DKP Club House on Chestnut St. in Anaheim and more.  I hope to be able to post many of these soon.

The photo attached is Jim's previously posted on this link.

[speedwell]

thx john , we will appreciate that 

[johnl]

thx john , we will appreciate that 

UPDATE;  The photo that Jim Edmiston posted and I confirmed was infact my Butternut car was WRONG.  I now have photos of my car with the 1700 BugSpray engine and I never had the pulley or the aluminum surrounding the engine compartment.  New photos of the car will be posted soon.

[johnl]

After looking at this link today I can now offer some futher photos of the car during it's build stage.  I was able to obtain one photo of the interior and I think that is THE ONLY ONE existing.  These have been posted before BUT it kind of finishes up the story for this link. 

I was correct in that my car didn't have aluminum panels in the engine compartment but my coil WAS mounted off the fan housing.  There is a shot of Jim (Sarge) helping me put it back together after Becker painted it.  FYI that was the second Warbonnet Yellow paint job as I wasn't happy with the first one from another shop.  Art Alvarez helped me tow the car from that shop to Becker's for what is in these shots.

A shot of Christie standing in our driveway with the car and a couple more angles.  Fun times and great memories and oh if I've never said it before I'm doing it now.  Jim THANKS for your help with the project, we did have some fun didn't we.....

Geez, look at those virgin Americans ....   

[johnl]

A few more shots........

[Fastbrit]

That interior shot will answer a lot of questions! Awesome photos, John, truly awesome...

[speedwell]

thx for sharing john , i would like to made my wheels like yours

[johnl]

That interior shot will answer a lot of questions! Awesome photos, John, truly awesome...

Keith, believe it or not it has answered some questions in my mind.  The gauges in this photo are Auto Meter with a generator driven spedo (can you imagine such way back then).  Later all was replaced with VDO Cockpit less the phony collar-ring.  I think the reason I chose these was because very few were using them, the faces tied in somewhat with the color of the car and by leaving the collar-ring I had something unique.

Note the toggles that controlled the wipers and headlights.  The dash bulbs were from an electronics shop and were used for turn signals, high beam, generator and oil pressure.  All were the proper colors for their function.

I had removed the ash try and in the center of that area was a "starter button".  One of the toggles put power through the system and then the button finished it.  Later with the 78.4x88 48IDA motor I ran a Joe Hunt Vertex Mag and had a kill switch that also acted as theft deterrent.

I came up with the idea of the three piece dash after seeing Aronson's one piece set up.  The glove box door was mirrored and the center area was filled in with a separate panel.  These two pieces were made from aluminum and studed with anchoring on the back side.  In looking at the photo today the center panel should have had matching have had a matching radius to the outer pieces.  Don't know how I missed that one.  The steering wheel was a Butler that was one of a very few that came through Auto Haus.  I've tried to find another and have come up empty, but I loved the look and quality of the wheel.

The interior is of course Brad's and I've told the story before that the idea came to me after seeing the VW limo that VOA had.  Everyone was doing "black" and I wanted something different and more "user friendly"  I was very happy with the results and Brad and I worked together to come up with something we both though was tasetful.  The center inserts in the seat were of a suede type finish but were actually vinyl.  That carred over to the dash panels and headliner.

Brad also did a full custom trunk for me with a hidden tool kit and even a cover for the 5th American.  On the door to the tool box he had sewn in a "Brads" sticker.  Unfortunately I have no photos of that nor any photos of me with the build but do have the ones with Christie and Jim.

Last, Brad did a beautiful job on the sunroof top and also made a full custom bra from the same material.  I think all of this was about $350 at the time which was a bunch, but today nothing.  I've got a great trim guy that has done several of my Chryslers but he is still a notch down from Brad's work.  He was simply THE BEST.

I still think of that car and those times often and I'm always left with great memories.  Would I like to have the car back, without a doubt, but as I've written it was rolled and totaled about six months after I sold it.  So with that I just have the memories and that will have to do but as some of you know I've recently purchased a new VW Cal-look ride.  It has been in the shop for five weeks doing changes to make it more mine and I brought it home just yesterday.  Now I plan to get it out on the roads and start creating some more memories....   

[johnl]

thx for sharing john , i would like to made my wheels like yours

If you are speaking of the finish of my "real mag" vs your aluminum copy I think a creative person could come close.  To me the challenge would be to get the blue hue of the polished areas, but I still think it can be done.  Beyond that I think the JGE copies are a great wheel and much more durable than the original Americans. 

Recently I had chance to obtain an original set and I was really tempted, but cost and the thought of running on a 40+ year old mag wheel made me re-think it.  The new car has real Fuch 4.5 front and deep 6 in the rear.  I was never a fan of the look but have come to respect their value, durability and lightness.  They are extremly easy to maintain and that is also a +.  Guess I'll stick with them until I figure something else to replace them with.   

[Matty c]

How about a set of jge copies? I think your new car would look awesome & it is kinda your signature  thanks for the history lesson too John, always love reading them.
Matt

[johnl]

How about a set of jge copies? I think your new car would look awesome & it is kinda your signature  thanks for the history lesson too John, always love reading them.
Matt

I guess the Americans are my signature, even Ron Fleming has told me that.  To go to a wide five I'd have to change out all of the disc brakes and after buying the car and doing many updates I've got to pull the reins in for a bit.

There are some interior issues I want to address and that will probably come first.  In the meantime I just want to get some time behind the wheel and suck up some atmosphere with those 48s.....   

[70slooker]

hey John,

 did you early guys still run with 6 volt systems?

[johnl]

hey John,

 did you early guys still run with 6 volt systems?

I did for a short time with the 1700.  Switched over retaining the 6 volt starter and it worked much better.  My '63 still has that set up and after 31 years on what I think to be the original starter it still works great.