Diederick's '67

[javabug]

If you can tolerate the mess for the weekend, just run it.  Keep an eye on the level, and everything else, but it should really be fine.

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

hi shubee, i don't know about the pulley. one thing i'm sure of is that i can't undo it at the moment as the pulley/engine will just turn along with the bolt. but i tried to tighten it a bit more, so i'll have to go for a ride to see what it's like now.

about the plugs. i undid number 4 and 2 respectively, this is what they look like:


what do you think? number 4 looks a bit oily and 2 is fine. 1 and 3 are a mother to undo due to manifolds...

i know i'm a dick for not having replaced the rings in the first place, i guess this is the moment where i'll have to cry (once i hope)
but could i drive with this problem? what will it do to my engine? is it worth taking a risk? i wouldn't mind taking apart the engine after EBI i guess...

what did you replace on your motor? I thought you put a new top end on it?  if you used the old Pistons and Cyls  did you mix up the Barrels and Pistons?  or are the same pistons in the same cyls?  I did not Know you used the Old  Pistons and Barrels and Old Rings It is not going to hurt anything to take it to EBI just watch your oil closely but  I am afaid that The Motor is going to have to come back apart Buy yourself a set 87 mm Pistons and Clys dont Bother with the old ones by the time you have the barrels honed and re ring them  you will have almost the same amount of cash in them  if you have more Questions on the motor just E Mail Me shubee2@msn.com  how far will you be driving the car to EBI?

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

I was Just Looking back at this Thread Did you Change the Heads on the Motor? I was looking at the Pickures of the heads with the Heater boxes still attched # 4 cyl in that Picture also has a lot of oil in the picture My  Question is are they the same heads? I know you lapped the valves But Did you Change the Valve Guides?  The motor can be sucking oil in threw the valve guides let me know I am Trying to help you out

[Diederick/DVK]

shubee, i really really appreciate your help 

this was my first build and i definitely messed some things up, just let me know so i can learn from it for the next build.

here's the story, i'll try to answer all your questions 

yes, i did change the heads, but i used the old plugs as they looked fine and had only been run for about 1500 miles.
the bore of my old heads was too small and yes they were pretty messed up with the heater boxes not coming off etc.
i did not change the valve guides, but my clubmate who ported them told me he ground (or something) the valves specifically, so i wasn't supposed to swap them. perhaps he can fill me in better on this 

about the old p&c set. i mixed up the pistons and barrels, i didn't keep them matched. this because it took the other motor apart back in november i think and i learned a lot over the last few months. i should've done this differently i guess. i just had dinner, but i decided i'll probably take the motor apart again after the weekend and fix the piston ring issue - might do 1641 indeed! and perhaps fix the pulley issue as well.

i should actually go for a test ride any time soon to see what it's like and i'll bring enough paper with me on the way to EBI to clean the mess if there is still oil then...

the ride is about 320 miles in total, and i guess i'll leave tomorrow morning 

i'll get back to work, but i'll check the lounge later on.

just wanna say i realllllyyy appreciate your help!!

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

You are going to have to  replace the Pistons and Clys you cant mix them when there used do to the wear pattern and the location you also need to Replace the valve guides  Drive your car around a little today see how it goes if it blows oil out the small vent tube you can put a hose on it and make a meg shift Catch Can so any oil will go in to the catch can (even an old oil bottle will work) I know you worked really hard to Get this Far and you Deserve to get the car to EBI we all make mistakes in life but hopefully we all learn from them  cutting corners is not a good thing  you can build a motor on a budget  let me know how your ride goes  just keep checking the oil level it should be fine for the weekend just hope you dont have to much cleanning to do E mail me if you have a question on the catch can and how to do it

[Diederick/DVK]

hi shubee, thanks a lot.
i let the engine idle for over 5 minutes in our garage and i also tried to adjust the idle on the kadrons.

my observations were:
- a little bit of neat white smoke, not blue gray
- the right quiet pack stuttered a little, perhaps my right kadron is just off sync.
- and the strangest of all is an irregular ticking sound in the engine. i figured it may be a rocker arm ticking or perhaps a rod? 

but leaky oil so far

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

hi shubee, thanks a lot.
i let the engine idle for over 5 minutes in our garage and i also tried to adjust the idle on the kadrons.

my observations were:
- a little bit of neat white smoke, not blue gray
- the right quiet pack stuttered a little, perhaps my right kadron is just off sync.
- and the strangest of all is an irregular ticking sound in the engine. i figured it may be a rocker arm ticking or perhaps a rod? 

but leaky oil so far

?  leaking? or no leaks?   Have fun at EBI  Let me know how things go you might want to run the valves just to make sure

[Diederick/DVK]

it's 2:20 am and i just finished working on my car... 
the hours i put into it this week!! i'd better get there tomorrow.

sorry shubee, i meant no oil leaks. i'm going for a test drive tomorrow and if that turns out well, we'll head off.
i should probably go through the valves, but the sound i heard had an almost irregular beat to it.
can't figure it out yet...

you're absolutely right jim, i'm learning big time here 
but also things i thought i wouldn't be able to install, like my talbot mirror (yes, it's on... i drilled the holes etc.) and the windows in the doors and all that comes with it. it looks so darn neat right now, i'm so proud    but i couldn't have done it without my brother's help!

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Good Luck at EBI

[Diederick/DVK]

thanks shubee, but i won't be with my own ride.

just got back home after having to pull over on the motorway, smoke was coming into the car.
so i check the engine and oil was dripping and getting toasted everywhere. i guess i have to tear apart the engine after the weekend...

but i'm leaving right away, we'll take my brother's 69. but so much for my show n shine spot 

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

thanks shubee, but i won't be with my own ride.

just got back home after having to pull over on the motorway, smoke was coming into the car.
so i check the engine and oil was dripping and getting toasted everywhere. i guess i have to tear apart the engine after the weekend...

but i'm leaving right away, we'll take my brother's 69. but so much for my show n shine spot 

well keep in touch I will help  you with what I can hope you have a Good Time

[Diederick/DVK]

i definitely had a good time nonetheless!
it was very cool meeting some of you, eventhough it was sometimes only briefly.

still i wanna share a picture of what i would've brought to EBI 



and my brother posing next to the back end, after the long drive home (note the oil on the QPs)



i still need the put the chrome trim on 

about the engine, i'm afraid i have to split the case this time... after i tried to undo the bolt of the pulley and trying to get it in further i have this strange metal click that comes up very irregularly. but my guts tell me it might be a connecting rod bearing or something, could it? i also think that if it's to much work getting everything sorted and buying new pistons and barrels i might as well build up a 1776 in a mexican case i have lying around and put the kadrons on that one...

good night for now.

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

i definitely had a good time nonetheless!
it was very cool meeting some of you, eventhough it was sometimes only briefly.

still i wanna share a picture of what i would've brought to EBI 



and my brother posing next to the back end, after the long drive home (note the oil on the QPs)



i still need the put the chrome trim on 

about the engine, i'm afraid i have to split the case this time... after i tried to undo the bolt of the pulley and trying to get it in further i have this strange metal click that comes up very irregularly. but my guts tell me it might be a connecting rod bearing or something, could it? i also think that if it's to much work getting everything sorted and buying new pistons and barrels i might as well build up a 1776 in a mexican case i have lying around and put the kadrons on that one...

good night for now.

Car Looks Great except for the OIL on the Mufflers and Ground  here is another Question did you put the pistons on the right way? the arrow on the top points toward the flywheel if the facing the wrong way the motor could have a knock  but either way it needs to come a part

[Diederick/DVK]

thanks shubee! 

i'm pretty sure i put the pistons on properly because it read somewhere on the lounge that someone didn't etc...
but also, i'm pretty sure it happened after i started messing around with the crank pulley. at first i thought it could've been a loose rocker arm, but after i ran down the valves the sound was still there.

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

thanks shubee! 

i'm pretty sure i put the pistons on properly because it read somewhere on the lounge that someone didn't etc...
but also, i'm pretty sure it happened after i started messing around with the crank pulley. at first i thought it could've been a loose rocker arm, but after i ran down the valves the sound was still there.

are your front turn signals the ones like they use in Italy? I have been looking for some nos Lenes for them?

[Diederick/DVK]

they are imitations and perfect DIY examples, they were on when i bought the car 

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

I have a set of Originals but the lenses I have seen for sale are clear and amber but dont have the lines on the sides of the lens you can see the bulb holder threw them on the new ones

[Diederick/DVK]

hi people, i went on holidays after EBI and i just got home tonight.
and i really need to sort out my engine, cos i need to drive my car.

i heard it will be around 30C this weekend, so i'd love to take it to the beach

anyway, i mentioned a while ago that i think i'm hearing a cling (weird metal sound) in the engine after i tried to slap in the crank pulley further. now, i shot this video tonight, but the quality of the sound ain't ace. please try to hear it, i think it gets obvious to hear after 1 minute:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/av21ZQZBnZg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/av21ZQZBnZg</a>

please let me know if you think it may be a vital mess-up, or look at the belt, could i have beaten up my crank pulley?
well, i need a bolt-in sand seal pulley now anyhow...

gimme some advice. 
cheers!

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

did you check to see that the sheet metal behind the pulley is not hitting the inside of the pulley? also did you take the flywheel off the motor? if so you could have to much end play and the crank is moving back and forth? take the car out of gear with the motor shut off get to big screw drivers push the crank pulley in with you hand then put a screw driver on each side behind the pulley and pull toward you How much dose the Crank move??

[Diederick/DVK]

Shubee, I will try that out shortly! I have also shot a better video to hear the weird sound, but it's on my own camera so i can't upload it on this pc. Need my own cable to hook it up...
Does a broken piston ring result in a weird sound? I'd rather replace those than some rod bearings 

Two nice pics my brother shot right before we intended to leave for EBI:



Yeah I know, I should've posed a bit better there 



I guess the few days-old paintwork allowed for an amazing reflection 

[Peter]

Cool car dude!!!

cheers, Peter

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Car Looks Great

[Diederick/DVK]

thanks guys!

well, today we're at it to sort out the engine as you can see:



the pulley came off like it was buttered after we removed the bolt with a huge wrench that we borrowed.
so i'm guessing that's how it was allowed to leak so badly. so (1) i'm gonna step back to my stock VW pulley with one of those chromed longer aftermarket bolts? right?

but then... the funny sound that i and my brother only seem to hear, and that doesn't really translate on the video i posted...
when i now turn the engine by the flywheel there is a dead point where it gets tough to turn it by hand, is this normal?
i figured it may be a broken piston ring, but i already dissassembled one side and the seem to be ok. it's just that the rings look dirty...



so (2) would it make sense to replace all 3 piston rings with new ones without honing the cylinders?
and (3) shubee, my aluminium oil thingy underneath the generator stand should face downwards right? 

however, in the worst case scenario it may again be a rod bearing or something. but what should i do? fix the pulley and run the engine again and see how long it lasts IF the ticking noise continues or should i strip and split the case and check everything? remember, if it's gonna cost quite a bit i'd rather invest in a larger engine 

i'm a bit lost now, please let me know what to do.

p.s.
my combustion chambers don't look too bad, right?

[Jordy/DVK]

when i now turn the engine by the flywheel there is a dead point where it gets tough to turn it by hand, is this normal?

 Were the heads still on or did you feel it after removal of the heads?
 If the heads were still on the resistance you felt was just the engine building compression in one cilinder...

[Diederick/DVK]

they were still on, so you are probably right about that! 

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

thanks guys!

well, today we're at it to sort out the engine as you can see:



the pulley came off like it was buttered after we removed the bolt with a huge wrench that we borrowed.
so i'm guessing that's how it was allowed to leak so badly. so (1) i'm gonna step back to my stock VW pulley with one of those chromed longer aftermarket bolts? right?

but then... the funny sound that i and my brother only seem to hear, and that doesn't really translate on the video i posted...
when i now turn the engine by the flywheel there is a dead point where it gets tough to turn it by hand, is this normal?
i figured it may be a broken piston ring, but i already dissassembled one side and the seem to be ok. it's just that the rings look dirty...



so (2) would it make sense to replace all 3 piston rings with new ones without honing the cylinders?
and (3) shubee, my aluminium oil thingy underneath the generator stand should face downwards right? 

however, in the worst case scenario it may again be a rod bearing or something. but what should i do? fix the pulley and run the engine again and see how long it lasts IF the ticking noise continues or should i strip and split the case and check everything? remember, if it's gonna cost quite a bit i'd rather invest in a larger engine 

i'm a bit lost now, please let me know what to do.

p.s.
my combustion chambers don't look too bad, right?

The Deflecter under the Gen, Stand is upside down in the picture, the heads still look like alot of oil has been leaking threw the rings or valve guides if you want to get away cheap I would Put a New Set of 87mm pistons and cyls on it have a valve job done on the heads  replacing the guides, and I would Flycut the heads .50 thousands as far as a Pulley go's I would either use the stock one or a Good Quality  Alum, one (Santana, or one from Gene Berg)  And Run It  Just make sure when you put the new pistons on stager the ring gaps  so none of them line up and make sure none of the gaps are on the bottom..   E Mail me if you need somthing shubee2@msn.com

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

I just noticed your Trunk Latch on the rear apron is upside down??

[Diederick/DVK]

you might be right about the heads, this is what they looked like several test runs and 80 miles ago:



and you're also right about the latch 

[Diederick/DVK]

what does it mean if 3 out of 4 pistons are sticky at the flat ends??

i'm really trying to figure out whether the piston rings are to blame or the valve guides...

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

it dosent really matter both need replacing the rings stick because of the built up carbon in the ring glands  if you try patching up what you have now  you are throwing money away put a new set of pistons and clys and have a complete valve job done to the heads I would also flycut the heads .050 thousands   you will be sorry if you try a new set of rings the problem is your motor is older and the pistons and clys have wear but when you pulled the motor apart you did not mark the piston to the barrel by mixing them up  even with new rings you are asking for trouble  if the pistons were new or even  used  but marked to the barrel they came out of it would be different..  you are looking at about $200.00 to get off cheap then you can save your cash for your new motor you want to build