lifter bores are gone!

[nicolas]

i just opened up my trusty 1776 that has been in the car for a few years now and i was very surprised when i checked the lifters in their bores.
they wobble very much. i take them out just a few mm's and can rock them up and down a lot( like 5 -6 mm). what has happened here? i used a 218/119 webcam and their lifters in this engine. the case was new when i had the engine build). it is a type3 engine and it won't go above 5500 rpms. it was used with 1.25 rockers. other than that the other parts look fine, maybe some 'ripples' show in the camlobes. very small weavy ripples that show as darker streaks on the lobes??? no special marks or anormalities on the cambearings or so.

i am confused about what happened here and i want to know what it was to hopefully find a cure to prevent this from happening. i am allready thinking about sleeves (copper). but who can help me here in belgium with those or/and can i fit them myself?

[Torben Alstrup]

For the first three lines of reading I was ready to shout FK40 series cam. - But then I kept reading and realized that that wasnt the problem.
I have seen the same issue ONCE, in a 1600 engine with a C35 cam in it about 10 years ago. lifter bores and lifters were totally shot after only 12000 km. Unfortunately I never found the source to the problem, and I have not seen it since. So unless somebody else has a good explanation to it, I think we will have to say that it is one of those things we cant explain.

On a side note I thjink 1,25 rockers are unnessessary if you limit it to 5500 rpm. With good heads that cam pulls to about 6000 with stock rockers. 1,25´s doesnt really pay off until 2800-3000 rpm and extends the power peak to about 6100 rpm. So its a relatively narrow window of use you have for a lot more stress on the valve train.

T

[nicolas]

For the first three lines of reading I was ready to shout FK40 series cam. - But then I kept reading and realized that that wasnt the problem.
I have seen the same issue ONCE, in a 1600 engine with a C35 cam in it about 10 years ago. lifter bores and lifters were totally shot after only 12000 km. Unfortunately I never found the source to the problem, and I have not seen it since. So unless somebody else has a good explanation to it, I think we will have to say that it is one of those things we cant explain.

On a side note I thjink 1,25 rockers are unnessessary if you limit it to 5500 rpm. With good heads that cam pulls to about 6000 with stock rockers. 1,25´s doesnt really pay off until 2800-3000 rpm and extends the power peak to about 6100 rpm. So its a relatively narrow window of use you have for a lot more stress on the valve train.

T

you are quite right on the rockers as that is what i had replaced, but it seems that this is not 1 problem, it seems that the material of the case is too soft (seems there is a difference in material between some cases/batches ??), but i am talking to the builder and we are trying to work something out.

what is so bad about the fk-40 series anyway. yes the accelleration is faster, but it can't make that much difference? can it? and i was thinking of using a fk43 or 44 in the future in a 2007 engine. bad idea? what is good for a heavy type 3?

thanks for the input.

[TexasTom]

The acceleration on the 40 series cams is much faster! If used in a magnesium case, the lifter bores need to be bushed (even if new) as the magnesium is simply too soft to support the lifter on its own. Silicon bronze is favored.
I believe the new aluminum cases are ok without bushings?
TxT

[Torben Alstrup]

What Tom said.
If you keep it 1776, I would refine the combo you already have. - Correct CR., good heads, correct exhaust, Find a set of 40 mm DCNF carbs. if you do not already have those. An engine that size should easily pull 105 hp with lots of torque to haul that type 3.

PS. I´m working on making a decent cross bar linkage to the DCNF´s in a type 3, as all the options on  the market for that set up lacks durability IMHO. It´ll take a while, but over the summer i think It will be ready.
-I was looking into cable pull, but what I have seen does not impress me.

T

[Zach Gomulka]

What Tom said.
If you keep it 1776, I would refine the combo you already have. - Correct CR., good heads, correct exhaust, Find a set of 40 mm DCNF carbs. if you do not already have those. An engine that size should easily pull 105 hp with lots of torque to haul that type 3.

PS. I´m working on making a decent cross bar linkage to the DCNF´s in a type 3, as all the options on  the market for that set up lacks durability IMHO. It´ll take a while, but over the summer i think It will be ready.
-I was looking into cable pull, but what I have seen does not impress me.

T

Nicolas has my old Berg 42 specials, with CSP bell crank linkage (normally used on t1 engines with a 911 shroud, mounts near flywheel).

What combo would you suggest?

[Torben Alstrup]

OHHH! That´s some really nice carbs that will handle significantly more power, - and displacement.

I think we should hear his whishes for the future. Since the engine is apart anyway, there might be financial room to make other changes too.

T

[Bruce]

The acceleration on the 40 series cams is much faster! If used in a magnesium case, the lifter bores need to be bushed (even if new) as the magnesium is simply too soft to support the lifter on its own.

I must've got lucky.
FK-44 in a stock Mg case, no bushings, 70k miles so far.......

[Dougy Dee]

I must've got lucky.
FK-44 in a stock Mg case, no bushings, 70k miles so far.......
[/quote]

Are you using an AS21 or AS41 case?

[Bruce]

It's the original engine case my car came with in the 70s.  AJ code, AS-21.  Oh ya, it had over 100k miles on it in it's stock life before it's current build.

[nicolas]

like zach said the carbs are 42DCNF's and the 1776 made a healthy 115hp with 40 idfs, but it may just be a feeling, but the 42's ran better.
plan was to install a 78 crank that is waiting, but things are not working out as fast as i expected with the lifterbore problems.

nice to see someone is thinking about type3 carb linkages. i always used the BAS trotlle linkage and never had any problems. i even think it works great. now i installed the CSP one and it works even smoother. i never tried a crossbar linkage on my engines so i can't compare that to what i used.

so what is suggested camwise in a 2007cc engine all type3 stuff. 

[Torben Alstrup]

The  DCNF´s almost per definition runs better than IDF´s on on short manifolds. Plus the Idf´s are virtually impossible to jet propperly, so its good in both lower, mid and high rpm.
- depending on the heads and the IDF´s and the tune they are in, 115 hp sounds a bit optimistic, but main thing is that it runs well.
- As for suggestions, well to make good recommendations I need to know more about the rest of the parts used. Especially heads and header, and also what you want to pursue.  Do you want more upper end power, or do you want more torque in the driving rpms ?
T