GEARBOXES: Berg5 speed - lets hear what its all about, Real life experiences

[Bruce]

.... you still only have a Standard 4th gear as your "top gear" 

Now that you understand you can pick virtually any 5th gear you want, you must now stop parroting that "5th is the same as stock 4th".

  but I am only talking about losing 500 more rpm so that when you cruzing on the highway at 75/80mph you would be doing under 3000rpm (something like 2800rpm) surely this would be ok 

I am thinking the 0.77 might be a good 5th

What R&P?

The RPMs you propose won't work. In a stock late 4 speed (3.88 x .93), you're doing about 3800 rpm at 80mph.  If you're thinking of a 3.88 x .77, you will be at 3200 rpm at 80mph..

Back when I used to run a 22.5" rear tyre, I built a 3.88x.82.  The result was 3600 rpm on the freeway.  When I upped to a 215/60/15 tyre (24.5"), I instantly noticed a 20ºF increase in cruising temps (still with the 3.88 x .82 = 3400rpm).  When I built my 5 speed, I picked a 4.12 and mated it with a .82 for 5th.  Now 80mph is 3600 rpm.  This is made possible with a larger 36hp lower pulley to speed up the fan.

[TexasTom]

MB,

What engine are you planning to use with this 5 speed?
Sounds to me, rather than spend the extra cash on a 5th gear, you should convert to a built Bus 4speed and go 4 INCH BORE.
All the torque you'll ever need ... 

Yes, as mentioned before, the reason I installed one was to have a trans that would compliment my engine and it's powerband while tearing it up on the street, then still be able to take the car on extended cruises in comfort. There's nothing fun about driving down the highway @ 55 MAX ... at least not here in Texas.
I run different size tires from time to time, but always target around 3500 rpm for my cruising speed which is always plenty with 5th.

I wish you good luck with your decision!
TxT

[Lee.C]

MB,

What engine are you planning to use with this 5 speed?
Sounds to me, rather than spend the extra cash on a 5th gear, you should convert to a built Bus 4speed and go 4 INCH BORE.
All the torque you'll ever need ... 

Yes, as mentioned before, the reason I installed one was to have a trans that would compliment my engine and it's powerband while tearing it up on the street, then still be able to take the car on extended cruises in comfort. There's nothing fun about driving down the highway @ 55 MAX ... at least not here in Texas.
I run different size tires from time to time, but always target around 3500 rpm for my cruising speed which is always plenty with 5th.

I wish you good luck with your decision!
TxT

Hey Tom - Sorry I have been meaning to reply to your PM    Thanks for the info/input and by the way your Blue Bug is F¤&KIN AWESOME 

Anyway back to the 5 speed - I am planning on using this box with my 2180cc SPG motor that Gary Holznect is putting together for me, its gonna be a "Street motor" and I am hoping for somewhere around 160/170bhp at the rear wheels but we'll have to wait and see - As  also mentioned before I want to run 215/60/R15 rear tires too,

I am liking the idea of the 3.88 R&P and  0.77 5th (apparently giving around 3200rpm according to bruce) This sounds more acceptable to me - I just don't like the idea of all the time/money/effort and then dropping into 5th and still cruzing at the same RPM as I have in the past with a stock 4speed,
 
I am starting to think it might be better to build a slightly more "evenly spaced" STRONG 4 speed  but then I keep thinking about that 5th gear 

Any more thoughts

[Fastbrit]

A couple of observations: first, unless your motor produces a 'useful' amount of torque, you'll find yourself dropping down out of a very high 'top' gear (be it fourth in a four-speed, or fifth in a five-speed) as soon as you come to any incline. Bear in mind that a roller-crank motor must not be 'lugged' at all – ie, put under load at low rpm, such as relying on torque to pull your high-geared car up a hill. While pinning the crank will have cured a roller-crank's twisting problems, there will still be the underlying weakness shared by all roller-crank motors in that they do not like this low-rpm loading. It hammers the hell out of the rollers. Porsche was very emphatic about this regarding its Carrera four-cam motors.

Now, you're talking about building a wide-spaced four-speed – maybe you don't really need a five-speed? As repeatedly written, the only real advantage of a five-speed is to close up the lower ratios to allow you to make use of a narrow power/torque band, yet retain the ability to cruise with a stock-ish top gear. VWs are highly geared anyway. What sort of power/torque characteristics does your roller-crank motor have? Is it a 'peaky' rev-happy cammer of a motor, or a lazy torque monster?

TBH, the simplest way to raise your gearing is, as Tom has said, play around with tyre sizes. It's far less hassle to swap tyres than it is to rebuild gearboxes!

[flatfire]

I have had one for a few years. It doesn't matter what is written here. The only way to understand it fully is to experience a 5 speed (with the right ratios) in the flesh so to speak.
Matched to the right engine  its a dream. Fly though the gears hitting a 100 mph in 4th then putting it in 5th is like taking a pain killer that works instantly.

IMHO its the best mod you can make when your getting old and weary.

[-Alex-]

I have also been thinking to get berg 5-speed for my 75 irs trans.  I remember that berg's saying that their 5-speed has same type of design as 901 porsche or vw 5-speed 091 trans.
To me, one piece mainshaft is only option. Did i understand correctly, than pinionshaft must also be extended?

[Bruce]

Most guys fear the extended mainshaft for no valid reason.  The shafts almost never come apart.  There are one piece mainshafts, but they only come in limited ratios with limited availability.  For other ratios, you need to get a 4 speed shaft and have it extended.

Pinion shafts require extending.  Nobody makes a new R&P set with a longer pinion shaft.

[Donny B.]

I've had my Berg 5 since '97 and have around 60K miles on it now.  When I switched engines from 1776 to 2007 I changed my 4th gear.  I am now running 4.12 R&P with 3.78, 2.21,1.58,1.21,0.89 ratios from 1st to 5th.  I'm with Bruce and Keith on this one.  Don't gear it too tall or you will be sorry.  I remember showing a friend my oil temp at 3200 RPM and at 3600 RPM it dropped over 10 degrees.  You really need that fan speed to cool the engine.  They didn't have 1 piece main shafts when I had mine built so I bought a FTC main shaft and the Bergs lengthened it.  I have had no issues with that.  I run VW bus rubber motor mounts on the midmount and they are very solid and also very hard to find.  The only thing I have broke is a hockey stick and was earlier this year.  I am currently running a 2165 with about 150 HP at the crank.  I can drive around at 35MPH and drive off to over 100 without downshifting or hesitating.  It doesn't blast off from that speed, but it pulls smoothly.  By the way I have a 1.26 4th gear for sale as well as a Berg locking 5-speed shifter.  Oh yeah I love my Berg 5.

[bmxandtoys]

Hello everyone. I have one since a few years now. The goal was to use the car on the strip and on the street. R&P is G3.88, mostly because it is the strongest one. Gears are 3.78/2.36/1.65/1.31/0.89. The mainshaft is one piece from Weedle. Here is a picture:

Main Shaft GB5 par bmxandtoys, sur Flickr
The R&P was modified by Berg:

R&P GB par bmxandtoys, sur Flickr
So you can see the 5 gears on the two sahfts:

GB5 gears par bmxandtoys, sur Flickr

[-Alex-]

I have been thinking either berg 5 with all weddle gears or 915 5-speed, which has these ratios on some versions:

RP. 3,86

1. 3,18

2. 1.83

3. 1.26

4. 1.0

5. 0.82



If i build instead of berg 5, i would choose these ratios:

RP 3,875

1. 3,78

2. 2,06

3. 1,48

4. 1,14 or 1.04

5. 0,82

915 box seems to have quite long first three gears.

Oh, my car will not be cal-looker with 135R15 tires and drums, but more germanlooker with 2600+cc nickies engine

[Bruce]

If this is for a street car, consider a closer 2nd while you're at it.  That's because what you listed is the perfect spread between 1st and 2nd for a 4 speed.  The ideal spread for a 5 speed would have a lower 2nd.

Right now I have a 1.48/1.13 3rd/4th. in mine (with a .82 5th).  I hate the 4th.  Next time it's out, I'm putting in a 1.04.

[pupjoint]

old thread, figure it is better to continue here than to start a new one.

Does anyone know if any body or chassis cutting/knocking work is needed to fit the Berg 5 to a 67 Bug?

Though I wouldn't consider 67 to be very early as I read here that some early cars need some work. 

[thehanz DVK]

Yes thats needed , also had a berg 5 in my blue 67

[Mike P]

I put a Berg 5 in my '63 notchback, unfortunately the project still isn't done thanks to having to purchase an new daily driver.  The instal was pretty simple and Gary Berg was a huge help as he was gracious enough to send me pictures of where he had to clearance torsion housings, body's etc. on his previous instals.  I thought this was awesome as he was not the builder of the gear box, Kevin of KCR was.  Another thing that helped me significantly was that Kevin sent me my empty center section with the 5 speed intermediate housing and nose cone so I could mock every thing up and not have to deal with the weight of an assembled trans and axles in my way.  If this can be an option for you from your builder I would highly recommend it.

Mike

[bedjo78]

I m in the progress installing 5 speed on notchback. Unfortunately I dont have any luxury of the gearbox dummy.
If you could post .  email / WA +62.812.2869664 pictures of your torsion housing and body clearance it would be big help.