what kind of rockers are these?

[Diederick/DVK]

hi,

i received these pics of the 2 sets of ratio rockers, but i have no clue what brand are even ratio they are.
does anyone have a clue?

i think the set of the left doesn't look too good judging from the looks of it.

[Sander/DVK]

The rockers on the right looks like 1:1.25 or 1:1,4. The rockers on the left are stock rockers I think..

[nicolas]

yep the ones at the left are stock and have circlips to hold them into place. the others are maybe ratiorockers... if you are looking for a set of 1.25 rockers and shafts, i have some and i am willing to sell them. they are in good condition,but i am looking at a cam that needs 1.4 rockers.

give me a PM if you like them (in het nederlands mag gerust)

[Zach Gomulka]

The ones on the left are either stock or 1.25:1, the ones on the right are 1.25:1 or 1.4:1. 1.25:1 rockers are avaliable in both configurations. Just because the circlips are stock doesnt mean the rockers are too, Ive seen stranger things

[Diederick/DVK]

i see zach 

but you said 1.4 on a s/p don't make sense, but dyou mean it has no advantage over 1.25 or is it simply not gonna work?

[Zach Gomulka]

i see zach 

but you said 1.4 on a s/p don't make sense, but dyou mean it has no advantage over 1.25 or is it simply not gonna work?

1.4s would be overkill for your engine. You may see some improvement with the 1.25s, but only with a good valve job and a little clean up on the ports.

[dave greiner]

The rockers on the right look like a set of the Sig Erson 1.5 -1 ratio rockers. They will work fine on a stock cam and are in no way to much for the motor. Dave

Proformancemotoring.com

[Diederick/DVK]

ok! so what are they worth? 

and secondly, they would require steel pushrods and single HD springs right?

[Zach Gomulka]

The rockers on the right look like a set of the Sig Erson 1.5 -1 ratio rockers. They will work fine on a stock cam and are in no way to much for the motor. Dave

Proformancemotoring.com

For a dual port I agree with you Dave, but a single port???

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

The rockers on the right are a set of the Sig Erson 1.5 -1 ratio rockers. They will work fine on a stock cam and are in no way to much for the motor I agree with Dave But I would use a Differnt cam and Non Ratio Rockers myself on your motor

[Diederick/DVK]

but i'm not splitting the case, i've already started building (see project thread)

HOWEVER, last night i was reading through an old HotVW (DKP issue, cheers lids) and i noticed the advert of the Sig Erson rockers. those old ads are so cool! 
i have to say they are identical indeed.

BUT it read : installation in 30 minutes with a screwdriver and 13mm wrench.
now, i'm wondering why i get told that i will need new pushrods and valve springs in 2007.
while in 1977 it was perfectly fine to just bolt them on... 

any clues?

[Jordy/DVK]

 Because in '77 the valve springs were new I guess... and not 40 years old...

[Zach Gomulka]

They were trying to sell more rockers!!! Sure they will bolt on in 30 minutes, but you will get valve float with old stock springs. Think about it... you will be opening the valve 27% farther in the same amount of time (duration). The valve acceleration is much more rapid, they WILL float! And HD springs requires HD pushrods. The stock ones tend to get a bit bendy with more spring. And for proper geometry, the pushrods should be shortened with ratio rockers.

I still say they are overkill for a single port, but what do I know... 

[Peter]

I read somewhere ( i think it was super vw tech)
that sig ersons suck: after a few 100 kms, the rocker bores were ovalised!
i wouldnt buy them..

cheers, Peter

[Sander/DVK]

Question, how can you reconise rockers? Or how do you know what kind of rockers they are..

I've just bought rockers from Bugpack, but I dont know if they are 1.25 or 1.4 rockers.

[Sander/DVK]

Pics..

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Pics..

By the Rockers in the Picture and the distance of the mounting hole in the rocker Blocks I would say they are 1.4 ratio they look like the new ones everyone is selling these days are they needle bearing? or Bushing Rockers?

[Sander/DVK]

Hi Shubee, thanks for your reply.

They are bushing rockers.

The rockers are from Serrano's

Regards,
Sander

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Hi Shubee, thanks for your reply.

They are bushing rockers.

The rockers are from Serrano's

Regards,
Sander

most likely there made by EMPI ,Scat,or C.B. Low Budget sell the same ones also

[John Rayburn]

The rockers on the right are a set of the Sig Erson 1.5 -1 ratio rockers. They will work fine on a stock cam and are in no way to much for the motor I agree with Dave But I would use a Differnt cam and Non Ratio Rockers myself on your motor

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'd steer clear of the Ersons also, they have a galling problem, and are too thin to machine and bush. 

[besserwisser]

I to have a few sets of Sig Ersson rockers and the only thing that stopped me from putting them on my single port 1600 with 296 degree cam was that the retainer hit the valve guide at full lift.You learn from experience and judging from all the good advice there are more than one with my signature. To move forward you have to try something different,push it to the limit and things happen.On a standard cam they will probably work just fine,but they have a tendency to weare the shaft down a bit. But if it looks okey you will have some fun months ahead of you. By the way,you can change the adjusting screws to Scat or CB so you can use regular pushrods."If the motor makes bad noises put on earprotection".

[Cheesepanzer]

The ones on the right do indeed look like Erson rockers.  Could be either 1.4's or 1.5's, but someone has swapped out the adjusters for newer/better cup style adjusters.

Unless someone here can report their personal poor experience with Erson rockers, I'd stay away from comments like the above regarding "hearing" of problems.  Erson sold tons of those rockers for VW high performance use.  Many a drag car ran them back in the day, and tons of street cars put thousands of miles on them.  Now, would they hold up to today's "garage door-style" K-Motion springs?     Dunno.  But if I were running a standard set of dual springs in a street car and had a decent looking set on the self, I'd run 'em!

My $.02   
 

[Fastbrit]

In my personal experience – and I emphasise 'personal' – Sig Erson rockers were some of the worst ever made. I had repeated breakages caused by the rocker arms seizing on the shafts due to poor oil flow. The only way I temporarily cured it was by using a small grinding tool to add some oil grooves inside the rocker arms to allow adequate lubrication on the shaft. The first arm broke in the 2007cc motor I had in my Fastback (back in 1988) after 250 miles of low rpm break-in running. I then had a series of them break at the track, one even snapping ten seconds after firing up while the engine was at idle (the damage had presumably already been done).

At this time, I was in regular contact with Dee Engineering who sold them and they confirmed they'd had no end of problems with them. Bill Taylor and co gave me a set of Autocraft rockers to try and I never had any problems after that.Springs were nothing more than regular Scat duals, no coil bind etc.

This was probably a bad batch and happened towards the end of Erson's involvement with the VW scene, but as you have no way of knowing which batch these rockers came from, I'd use something else.

My $0.2...

[John Rayburn]

I also have a few sets that I " personally " could not make work do to galling and other issues. I'm glad Keith chimed in with me, we're only trying to help out; My own personal experiences with all the stuff I ve encountered since the 70's in our hobby usually falls on deaf ears, so thanks Keith, people usually listen to you.

[Fastbrit]

No problem John! God knows why anyone should listen to some stupid Brit, though. Oh well... 

[Cheesepanzer]

Interesting stuff on the Erson's.  Thanks.