Berg traction bar tips

[Lee.C]

ok it might "work" for a while - Until the sheet metal starts tearing!  Wink

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about.  I have used mine for 17 years now and no problem.  You have to look at what it is doing.  If it was pulling sideways then there might be a problem, but it is pulling down and the strength is there to support it.  I followed the Berg instructions which are very good and it works.  Talk to an engineer and perhaps you will understand it is the way the stress is applied that allows it to work over and over.

...so there...

Rubbish! I am an engineer!

[65bug]

There's always more then one way to skin a cat. I like Gene Berg products and I have spent many a dollar there. However, other brands such as Bugpack and Pauter are excellent as well. That Berg traction bar set up cost them all of about 15.00 to produce and it will work. No one has to tell me otherwise. There are however better thought out units in my opinion. The Bugpack Kafer bar is a much more solid unit............

[Lee.C]

Just a thought but you don't see the V8 guys bolting their "Motor plates" to the inner fenders do you 

[Lids]

no but they don't have cantilever support for their engines.

Don't wanna sound rude Lee but Gene Berg used this for decades, and I think i'll take his advice.

But i will admit i use the bracket the mounts on the bumper hanger.

[Zach Gomulka]

There are however better thought out units in my opinion. The Bugpack Kafer bar is a much more solid unit............

I installed one on my dads car a few years ago, I was not impressed with the quality.

[Bruce]

Just a thought but you don't see the V8 guys bolting their "Motor plates" to the inner fenders do you 

You can slag it all you want, but the bottom line is, the design works for street cars.

[TexasTom]

The Bugpack Kafer bar is a much more solid unit............

You can say whatever you like, simplicity often Rules (K.I.S.S. ... !), the Berg design does simply work.
I tried a 'Kafer' setup and it took me ~8 hours to re-straighten my frame horns after attempting a normal launch @ 6500 rpm ... worst decision I've made in quite some time! ... and that was with DOTs, not slicks ... ruined it!
The 3 bar 'Kafer' design is simply nowhere near as strong because it places ALL of the stress of the launch on the shock mounts which are located roughly 14" (radially) from the center of the torsion housing. That gives the frame horns 14" of leverage on the torsion housing which has to take on most of the stress ... believe me, it will twist and this is NOT the only way you want to support your engine/transaxle assembly!
The 'other' design, though SIMPLE, supports the assembly linearly by the body which is QUITE STRONG since the body sheet metal is in the same plain as the stress put on it. Ever try to tear or even bend a piece of sheet metal by pulling two corners away from each other?
Now, if you simply CANNOT deal with this approach, another useful design supports the framehorns at the rear transaxle mount by attaching rods to the mount and the rear portion of the package tray/luggae area behind the rear seat. I would imagine the reason you don't see kits sold for this design is the complexity involved in implementing as welding plates to the package tray will be necessary to distribute the load as well as likely engine and rear transaxle mount removal to implement the 'system'.
Kinda makes the Berg design a little more attractive, don't you think?
TxT

[RhoadsVW]

I agree with Tom. kafer units are not what they are cracked up to be.  I ran a berg traction bar and a solid front mount and never had any problems. It creates a very well supported system. Never any wheel hop and never any broken transmission cases which if these things happen is a good sign that something is not supported correctly. With the kafer units you are pivoting all the weight and power of the motor from the rear torsion housing and nothing holding any support at the motor. Motor and trans is moving still together off the rear torsion housing.  If you have a roll cage that supports from in front of the torsion housing then you have the support ties into the complete car.  The Kafer system looks beefy and cool and very racier but are worthless.   Dave Rhoads

[Kaferdog]

Ya know after reading what you guys posted (Dave & Tom)...it makes alot of sense to me !....I think I'm going to steer clear of the Kafer bar myself and mount my berg traction bar back on the car !...I already have a Berg mid-mount and urethane motor mounts ..the bar would just tighten the rear..! as far as stress...!..If your tearing sheet metal up then something has to be wrong up front !..I often wondered about the kafer bar set and the "Cantilever effect...?...I mean nose,mid ,motor mount and Berg bar..How can you go wrong !...seems like it should be enough ..?...for street anyway

[RhoadsVW]

Be carefull of the urethane motor mounts. They will crack and fall apart from stress and vibration. That's why I always use the steel or aluminum front mount.  With the steel you need to weld the bolts to the mount otherwise they will come lose. Dave Rhoads

[Diederick/DVK]

how about the grey HD (Bus) rubber mounts for front and rear?

[Nico86]

At Berg you can buy the whole kit : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=583195

[glenn]

how about the grey HD (Bus) rubber mounts for front and rear?

I'm using them... no problems so far.

[Lids]

I have grey fronts

[Diederick/DVK]

i've got them lying around for when the other 'box is done. grey mounts, mid mount, and traction bar is what i was planning on using.

[Kaferdog]

I also have the greys just waitin for the "New" tranny....!

[TexasTom]

One last comment on the 'Kafer' bars ... I assume they trickled down/out from the KaferCup cars ... ?
They do a good job of tying in and strengthening the shock towers for better shock performance, especially noticable when you're running stiff settings like they would on a roadcourse, or on a dragcar with slicks.
But for a traction/wheel-hop device ... NO.
That's all I have to say about That ... LOL
TxT

[stealth67vw]

Maybe it's overkill, but I run HD grey cradle and nose mounts, genuine Mohr mid mounts, Bugpack HD cradle mount with a strap, Fast Fab chromoly kafer bar and a Berg traction bar.

[bugnut68]

At Berg you can buy the whole kit : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=583195

Wow, I was expecting that to cost more than $250... not too bad... I wonder if I can find somebody locally to weld up the mounts for the intermediate mount... around here nobody gives a sh*t about VWs.  One of those times I wish I could weld. Lol.

[TexasTom]

Maybe it's overkill, but I run HD grey cradle and nose mounts, genuine Mohr mid mounts, Bugpack HD cradle mount with a strap, Fast Fab chromoly kafer bar and a Berg traction bar.

We're on the same page except for the Berg 5speed front mount and their mid also.
It's just good insurance when your dang near quadrupling the factory horsepower.

[Zach Gomulka]

At Berg you can buy the whole kit : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=583195

Wow, I was expecting that to cost more than $250... not too bad... I wonder if I can find somebody locally to weld up the mounts for the intermediate mount... around here nobody gives a sh*t about VWs.  One of those times I wish I could weld. Lol.

Get a MIG welder. It's easier than you're thinking. Just takes practice.

[danny gabbard]

Another choice for a mid mount and they dont hang below frame horns.

[TexasTom]

Another choice for a mid mount and they dont hang below frame horns.

Peeerty ...

[danny gabbard]

The choice of ALL ! jack drinkers!!

[65bug]

Thanks guys for all the input! You are correct about the Kafer bar Tom. I got to see one first hand today. I am sticking with the Berg traction bar for now. However, There are a few things that just do not seem to fit properly.
   One is the bolt in tabs that the hangers slip into. I AM SURE EACH CAR IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, SO BERG HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AT GETTING THEM CLOSE.
    My car is a 65, and the tabs did not really SIT on the bumper cradles at all. So, I decided to go a different approach. I still wanted to use the mounts for more strength. I had to remove my passenger side fender. First time for me that I have taken a fender off my car.
    I WAS SHOCKED..........THE FENDER BOLTS CAME OUT SO EASY!!!! Whoever worked on them last..........THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I am assuming they put either grease or anti-seize on them.
    So, passenger side is done. I pulled out my trusty plumb bob to get directly under the very back portion where the rear tab is. It's turning out nicely. And the hangers will not be at too much of rake or angle. ROCK solid.
    I tried using the existing factory holes for the hangers. I did not like the angle it set the hangers at. They where in my opinion angled to far back.

[danny gabbard]

I would cut a little off the rod that goes through bracket and weld a small washer on end so it dont pop out! Just a Idea.

[65bug]

Thanks! It's actually not hooked up there. I will get some pics once it's tightened down. The hanger sits in there just as good as if the tabs where mounted vertically. With the tabs, I could never get them to lay on the bumper ledge at all trying to mount them vertically. My holes I drilled went through the doubled up sheet metal too. and stayed below the engine bay lip. It was tight, but worked out nicely

[neil68]

CB rhino mounts, Berg traction bar brackets mounted on bumper support ledge and Mohr Performance mid-mount:

[bugnut68]

At Berg you can buy the whole kit : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=583195

Wow, I was expecting that to cost more than $250... not too bad... I wonder if I can find somebody locally to weld up the mounts for the intermediate mount... around here nobody gives a sh*t about VWs.  One of those times I wish I could weld. Lol.

Get a MIG welder. It's easier than you're thinking. Just takes practice.

Yeah, my buddy whose shop I'm working out of has a welder... I need to do some practicing... a skill I want to have for sure.

[65bug]

Hi guys,
     Traction bar mounts and hangers are completed to my liking now. It sits on the very outside square pad now directly below the bolt home on the furthest point on the motor. As you can see, I flipped the brackets around. No chance of them going anywhere. You have to unbolt from the bottom and swing the hanger up to get it to come out of the hole. They are straight up and down as well. Not laying over to one side
     I had to try different ways and just go through the motions to understand what and how I wanted it. It will work for me.
          I will now fabricate a piece for the bottom to keep that block from chewing up the mount quickly................