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Author Topic: Ray Vallero stroker build for my '63 ragtop  (Read 60309 times)
Donny B.
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« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2011, 16:56:30 pm »

Gee Rick, think you can make that long trip from Wittmann to Wittmann for the race?  Must be all of a few miles...LOL
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Don Bulitta
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rick m
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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2011, 06:42:23 am »

I've been to so many VW drag races in 40 years I just need a break. Doing 33 events fried me.  However, I enjoy hang-in out for barbeque's and good company, or the Friday/Saturday night cruise in events.

RM
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Rick Mortensen
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Donny B.
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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2011, 14:11:41 pm »

I hear ya Rick.  Hope to see you on the 22nd.
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Don Bulitta
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dsimas
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2011, 20:25:27 pm »

For those interested, here's a video I made from Fontana Bugorama with Ray and Tony Klink a week ago.  Sorry for the camera shake, I filmed it all with my cell phone (except the in-car camera of the final).

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4TVaQzWLJ7A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/4TVaQzWLJ7A</a>

So, back to Hugo's heads.  Now that Ray has been porting the intake runners, he's discovered he can go bigger than he originally thought.  We are now going with 43 x 35.  Smiley  This will allow us to lower the compression to 9-9.25:1.  The benefit being it will run cooler.  But we won't lose power because it will have a longer torque band of approximately 3500-7000rpms.  With larger valves and intake runners the effective ratio actually rises at higher rpms due to complete filling of the combustion chamber.   The higher you rev it, the more compression it will get because it will fill the chamber with a bigger load of fuel/air mix.  He explained this to me as pouring liquid from a quart jar into a gallon jar and it will splash around more also, for a better burn.  Since we are running shorter manifolds, we want to pick up the air speed in the intake manifold right below the carbeurator.  This makes the air pull harder to the carb so that there is less hesitation.

Seat pockets with new seats installed, but not ground yet.



Intake ported.



This shows the ported intake done on one side, not done on the other yet, for comparison.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1MIIjRBgORk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/1MIIjRBgORk</a>

Intakes compared between Lynda's old racebus heads (the ones I was going to use) and the new ones (larger now).

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dsimas
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2011, 22:11:36 pm »


Ray's been machining and porting the heads and manifolds and that is a huge undertaking and so not a lot to report on the thread here lately.

BUT, Velvet the bus lost 3rd gear for good, in addition to having trouble now with 1st and 4th, so she's parked.  I got a complete bus tranny with RGB's off CL and it needs to be rebuilt, so that is after the motor build for Hugo.  That means she'll be sitting for a while, so I said, heck, let's put Hugo's old motor BACK into Hugo so that I can at least go back to driving my car that has been gutted for 3 months.





So, that's what we did this weekend.  We invested a bit of time getting the external oil coolers (we decided to go with 2-72 pass instead of one 96 pass) and filters (from the 912 racecar) mounted in the car, since this has to be done anyway. 

But, I was eyeballing that competition merged exhaust that is going on the new motor.  Who needs heaters, right?  Let's stick it on and get a feel for it. 



And, while were at it, let's put on a little racing pulley that I have for a bit more HP.  So, Hugo has some more power in that 28 year old 1600cc, so it's a little kick in the pants to feed the need for speed as I wait impatiently...  It is so small that we had to sink the belt down into the generator by putting about 15 shims in.



These are the braided lines that you want to use with an external filter and/or cooler.  I think it is technically an air compressor hose.  It is has a stainless steel outer jacket and teflon inner.  Burst pressure is 1750#, it's pricey at $11.49 a foot, but so is a new motor.  Rubber deteriotes from the day you put it on.  This stuff never will.



Here are the dual oil filters from the old 912 racecar.  Oil goes at half speed because the oil is going through both at the same time, not from one to the other.  This results in better filtering and less drag on the oil systom.



Here's a shot from the back, looking at the oil cooler mounted.  It is in the center of the picture, under the car, to the right of the shock.  We are going to add another one on the right side too, but don't need it for this motor.



And some shots of the lines.  This was time consuming, but the location for the cooler is the best one with lots of air flow, and the lines are tucked up out of risk of snagging.  As for where the lines go in and out of the motor:  We blocked off the outlet to the oil pump that would normally go to the crankcase and blocked the case inlet off too (see the beginning of this thread).  Now the oil can only go out the pump cover (that replaces the stock plate).  The line should go to the filter first, so that the oil is hot, when it's thin.  Then it goes to the external cooler and back to the case through the main oil galley. 







Notice the hole in the fender well.  It was hacked in there when the engine was built 28 years ago.  Ray says his kids must have done it, not up to his standard...heh, heh.  It's there to be able to access the dual 40 webers.  It had covers, but we removed them entirely because Ray is going to enlarge this hole and make a better "door" for them for the 48's.



Cutting new doors with the plasma cutter (cool tool).



For the sake of time, it's late and I want to drive my car, we just put them over the old holes.  Later when the new motor is done, the holes will be enlarged and cleaned up.



And from the inside looking at the "doors" on the right and the left.





It's dark and late.  I'll roadtest this week after we rejet the carbs and add the muffler (needs flange mod).  And then Ray has to get back to the new motor.  Next up on that is shortening the barrels.


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dsimas
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« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2011, 19:18:08 pm »


We are tweaking this old motor with some new components so that I can drive it again during the build of the new motor. 

Here is the muffler that we are going to use with the 1-7/8" merged exhaust. 



Ray had to cut off the flange since it was too small and the wrong configuration, and weld the proper flange on.



The old motor can certainly breathe now.  Smiley







The tailpipe was too far under the car and caused a loud rumbling inside.  I know, I know, good excuse to invest in an amp and subwoofer to drown it out....  Cheesy  But, Ray said it will also turn my fender black, so he welded on a bit more to get the exhaust out from under the car. 





It is much quieter now.  But, still has a throaty sound that I really like, even though it's the same old motor.  Going to be really interesting to hear the new one.

The downside, it's now running too lean/hot due to the larger exhaust.  We are rejetting the idle jets from .45 to .50 and the air corrector jets from 1.70 to 1.85.  Going to road test today.  Smiley

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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2011, 19:30:13 pm »

1 7/8" on a 1600 Shocked
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glenn
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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2011, 20:28:24 pm »

Here are the dual oil filters from the old 912 racecar.  Oil goes at half speed because the oil is going through both at the same time, not from one to the other.  This results in better filtering and less drag on the oil systom.



That's 1970's technology, get a single Canton Mecca filter and you'll have less restriction and better filtering.


And it filter 100% of the oil 100% of the time since it doesn't need a bypass valve.
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Glenn
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dsimas
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2011, 20:05:35 pm »

Zach:  I won't be running that exhaust on that engine normally.  We just thought it would be nice to see the changes it causes in a known engine since we were pulling that engine out of the bus and putting it in the car and had the opportunity.  The heater boxes and old header exhaust will go back on the 1600 when the new motor goes into the car and this one goes back into the bus.  We've rejetted the dual 40's for it and it's always fun learning and fiddling with the effects of different combinations. They are now running .50mm idle jets, 2.00 air jets, 1.45mm mains.  The test will be today, I drive 25 miles to work climbing a steep grade.

Glenn:  Ray is familiar with the Canton Mecca filter and agrees with you.  The reason we are using these is 1) we had them laying around and they are free and 2) the emotional attachment, it is nice to keep a piece of the old 912 racecar alive.  It was a very special car.  But I am glad that you posted this info for other readers to know, thank you!  Smiley

So, Ray shortened the barrels by .090 for zero deck using the expanding mandrel.  Here's the difference between before and after.



How it's done.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/R7z9gJBg_ic" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/R7z9gJBg_ic</a>

We're within .001 of where we want, we're calling that good.  Smiley

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DX0i4qqesr4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DX0i4qqesr4</a>

Now the barrels need to be honed.  They come "looking" perfect, but you take a fraction off the surface and irregularities show up as shadows. Then Ray hones a few more times to remove those imperfections (they would have manifested as leakage if not removed).  

This is from the factory.  Looks fine, right?  Smooth surface, no shadows.



This is one that was already done and shows the shadows that are a concern.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJwz-rpQE8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/TLJwz-rpQE8</a>

After you hone one slightly, these shadows show up.  They are irregularities under the surface that WILL manifest themselves once in a working engine.  It may sound complicated, but the barrel looks perfect at first, then he hones it lightly to *see* the shadows, then he hones a bit more to *remove* them.  



How it's done.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dpiPS4F0d7Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dpiPS4F0d7Y</a>

In the video, when the barrel wobbles on the honing machine, that is caused by the lumps that are being removed.  When Ray had a dyno, he'd beat them up on dyno (or during a race) and hone again to keep them round.  They tend to want to square up because of the voids where the studs are on the outside fins.  He's rehoned Tony's barrels several times to keep them round after a race.

All 4 of mine have shadows that cannot be completely removed without making the barrel too large.  But they are all near the base of the cylinder below the ring line, so they are not a concern.  But you can see the shadow as a horizontal line along near the edge.


« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 18:25:45 pm by dsimas » Logged
dsimas
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2011, 19:53:56 pm »


The new heads are coming along.  It's 2-3 days of grinding for each one, very labor intensive.  Ray has to be like a sculptor, it's really an art, to get symmetry in a 3D perspective.  He's about done with one head and here he is straightening the slight lumps with a rattail file.



This is how he checks for lumps in the head by rocking back and forth to see the curvature symmetry after grinding the intake ports. Focus your eyes on the lower part of the hole to the black hole on the other side. By rocking, your eye can catch any lumps in the curve as it rotates past.  This is how he checks his work before calling it good.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/U2pE66X9ifg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/U2pE66X9ifg</a>

Next, we are backcutting the valves to 25 degrees to increase airflow.

Before:



Using a collet chuck, the most accurate chuck there is.  The chuck on left is what some valve grinders use.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZhJ5T3YNxl4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZhJ5T3YNxl4</a>

We have now changed the effective lift of the valve.  After:


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Mike Lawless
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« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2011, 17:12:33 pm »

I love the build thread Dawn. I've been looking in on it from time to time. It's coming along very nicely!

I have a lot of respect for your builder and this is meant as a constructive critque.

I really REALLY hope that  you are not planning to use screw on hose clamps on that teflon braided hose for the oil system. That hose needs to have properly swedged on hose ends, or at the very least, the proper reusable hose ends. Hose clamps are meant for low pressure applications on rubber hose that has some "give" and can conform to the "unroundness" of the inside of the hose clamp. Teflon hose does not have that conformability

 
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rick m
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Driving Hot VWs for 44 Years Strong!


« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2011, 18:04:16 pm »

Ray Vallero is no newcomer to VWs. When I met him around 1971-72, he had a drag bug that was running 11.40's at 118 mph.  In my opinion, had he lived in Orange County, he would have been in one of the early "How to Hot Rod VWs" books.  Ray has always done everything on his cars.  Motors, trans, fabricating, painting.  He is a very knowledgeable engine builder and fabricator.  I owe a lot of my initial VW hot rodding interest to having known him.  I was impressed back in the 70's with the absolute precision he followed when building VW engines.  

Seeing this thread about honing barrels makes me think back of when I had Ray honing my engine barrels with his Sunnen CK10 honing machine.  Even back then we never ran any barrels out of the box.  It is great to see this thread being posted showcasing what Ray has known and being doing for over 41 years.  If you live in Northern California and you are looking for someone who knows high performance VWs, this is your guy.  His knowledge is comparable with any of the well known VW engine builders from years past.

Rick Mortensen
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 18:47:26 pm by rick m » Logged

Rick Mortensen
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Torben Alstrup
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« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2011, 18:05:05 pm »

What Mike said.
I second that hose/end mix as a no go.

Also, if you intend to run that nice little thing on the streets for more than a trip just around the block, why use about the worst fan housing you can find for cooling (?) I seriusly recommend you to chose a better solution. It would be a pity to fry such an engine just because the fan houning looks nice.

And yes, welcome to the left lane  Grin

T
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dsimas
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« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2011, 21:04:02 pm »

Rick - GREAT chatting on the phone!  Thank you for your comments, Ray was very moved by your kind words.

Mike and Toben - RE:  The clamps on the oil lines.  Hugo had those lines on it for at least 10 years and haven't had a problem at all.  He said the clamps in the picture I took here are too big, he normally uses smaller ones, which we didn't have that night.  He's going to swap those out soon.  As for the fittings you mention, he said that they are rigid and suspend several inches out from the cooler, which could cause the brass fitting to fail from suspension and vibration because of the way the cooler is hung.  Ray has been doing it this way for 25 years never had a leak, one come off, suffered any unroundness, or any trouble reusing hoses.  But that doesn't mean that others reading this thread couldn't benefit from doing your way, so thank you for bringing it up.  Smiley

Torben - Ray fully agrees that this small shroud is not as efficient as a stock one.  But we have things that will result in more cooling that should compensate.  

We are using a K8 cam with more overlap (cooler).
A 1.5 quart sump.
Dual oil filters.
Two 72-pass external coolers.  

The main reason he wants to try to use the smaller housing is that it's a very narrow motor.  It will be easier to get in and out, will have easier access to things, and we would have to chop and fabricate a stock housing to make it work.  He is going to add directional vanes inside this shroud.  And also fabricate a horn on the front intake.  He is going to test it on the bench to see the amount of air flow.  I have an oil temp gaug in the car and we will be watching it carefully once it's in.  If the heads get too hot, it will ping.  I know not to crank my radio for a while as we test this engine.  We aren't just throwing that shroud in and hoping for the best, that's never been Ray's style.   Wink

Now, that being said, I want to speak for Ray, but this is me speaking now:  This man is a pioneer.  He's made a career out of making things happen that people say cannot be done.  Cheesy  This is something he wants to try and I trust him.  I am very lucky to be close enough with him to know that he will gladly pull the motor again and again if necessary to tweak things in this very unique build.  Not for my satisfaction, but so that he and future builders can all learn from it, and that's why I'm blogging it.  

He wants to try this for two reasons:  Looks and convenience (access).  He's willing to do trial and error to see how to make one work so that others can benefit from it, if it can be done.  If not, we'll put a stock shroud in.  Smiley  As things progress, we'll see how it goes with mine and report on it.

So, on to what we did this weekend.

Ray is still working on grinding the manifolds.  If you look back in this thread, you will see how they were welded by Bast Bros after Ray cut them to shorten them.  They are now 4-1/2" tall, shorter than any Ray has heard of.  The shortest he could find prefabbed are 5-1/2".  So, now he needed to clean up the welding on the outside.  And it's tricky, since there's no telling if he goes too far.  He did punch through in one thin spot, so that will be fixed.  He still needs to do more porting on them after the exteriors are cleaned up.

One is almost done, the other still needs some more work.  But this is several hours of labor just to this point.



Here's the hole.  It was a result of having to go far enough in that spot to get a nut to fit there when mounting them.





Ray ran across some lighter weight chromoly wrist pins in his shop over the weekend.  Were they worth the extra work to shorten them to fit my pistons?  Well, we weighed them and they are 40 grams lighter each, so that would be a YES.   Grin   Reciprocating parts have to stop each revolution and it yanks on them harder the heavier they are.  These will be easer on the rod bearings at high RPM'S.  Ray is shooting for this motor turning 8000 and this will help achieve that goal.



He made this cutting block to hold on to the pin so the vice can hold on to it without knocking the pins out of round.





They are too long, so we are removing .010 off the end with the Winona.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/6uOXm9KS-co" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/6uOXm9KS-co</a>

Then chamfering the new end's edge.



We will be using spiral locks on them, rather than the Truarc snap rings that they came with.  The snap rings, in Ray's experience, fail more.



It is important to clean out the middle of the wrist pins before assembly. This is missed by many.  Look at all the stuff inside them.



Ray has assembled the case and we are now going to measure the deck clearance.  We have zero deck and are shooting for .040 clearance to allow for rod stretch at high rpms and another .007 for carbon buildup since this will be a street motor (not necessary for a racecar).  So, he preloads the dial indicator for .050, put a copper head gasket on the barrel, and we came up needing to use a .010 barrel shim to achieve what we wanted.  

Here he demonstrates how this is done with the fixture he built that simulates a head for accuracy.  After measuring, he returns the fixture to the plate to be sure that it still says zero to be sure that nothing had moves, the video does not show that.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z9te7Do7JwI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Z9te7Do7JwI</a>
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 05:58:22 am by dsimas » Logged
dsimas
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2011, 22:53:13 pm »

Not a lot to report today, but Ray found some different rings in his shop that he wants to use, rather than the ones we had.  The Sealed Power top rings are chrome, they wear better in dirty conditions and this helps especially if I don't run air filters (I hope to run air filters, but that will take some work to get them to fit). 

Here's the chrome top ring next to the second ring. 



The scraper (second) ring is CB Performance and is not a Total Seal, but high quality material.  It has a step on the edge, which is a better method of moving the oil back.



The oil ring is an SS-50, stainless steel 3 piece rail type with a low drag, also made by Sealed Power.  Here's the whole set that I'll be using.


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BeetleBug
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« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2011, 17:07:56 pm »

Excuse me for asking but after looking at the honing video I wonder if he also measure them after bolting them with the correct torque to for example two steel plates? I have found that I can get the cylinders nice and round but as soon as they are torqued to a steel plate they loose their roundness. I handed over my cylinders to a pro-shop and they never hone their cylinders without torque (stress hone)

-BB-
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
dsimas
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« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2011, 05:06:00 am »


BB:    I asked Ray your question and he agrees with you.  He just hasn't had time to make any plates of the same metal as the motor for accuracy (not steel).  And in his experience, so far he hasn't suffered any problems  without them.  He does agree though, that plates would be even better.   Smiley
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dsimas
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« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2011, 22:15:13 pm »


Time for an update!

Ray's been very busy, and has been grinding on the heads and manifolds off and on for weeks, so that just shows how much time goes in to these kind of mods.  He really has to be a sculptor and be focused and in the right frame of mind.  It's hard to do that in a rush between other work, so the stars have to align and....  Okay, well maybe not like that, but close.

He's ground down the guide bosses in the intakes for even better flow.  Compare mine now to Lynda's racebus heads that weren't done this way.



Lynda's bosses:



Mine:



When he put the bosses into the heads, he heats them up 250 degrees to slide the guides in without tearing them up.  Without heating, it may shift going in since it now doesn't have a big boss to support it.

The venturi on the 48 IDA's is 37mm (see the stamped # in there).



Ray would like the intake port to be overall larger than the venturi (37).  He's gotten it to 40.37 X 36mm port diameter.



Everything in the airway should be larger than the venturi.  So that the signal to the venturi is not restricted.  He has made sure that the seat pocket is also larger than the venturi in the carb, measured with this snap gauge.



Dual springs are needed to follow the cam profile and the rpm range that we plan on achieving.




The guide bosses on this side need to be cut for the dual springs to fit.  The one on the far right is done.



Doing the one on the left now.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/79mL4lq6WPI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/79mL4lq6WPI</a>

We are topping the guides to allow for more lift.  I am running 1.3 rockers for longevity.  Less wear by less lift.  Ray says that there is .060 less lift going from 1.5 to 1.3.  Even though we are running less lift than the cam manufacturer recommends, the stock guides will not accept .497 lift the way they are, so we must top the stock guides to accept approxamatley .525 lift.

We are making up for the lack of lift in other areas in the intake runners, intake pockets, and intake valves. Im sorry, I can't say how we are doing this. Trade secret.    Wink

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5_4iwz-h-bo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/5_4iwz-h-bo</a>
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dsimas
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« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2011, 00:05:51 am »

New valves are not perfect out of the box.  The head binds in the guide, this is why.  
The stem measures 7.91mm.



And the head is 7.94.  



He will external hone it to 7.91 also, using this tool.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PDlHvB1xFs

Semi unshrouded bowls, with the valves in place.



Moving along.... more grinding still needed, then cc'ing the heads.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 00:07:53 am by dsimas » Logged
rick m
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Driving Hot VWs for 44 Years Strong!


« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2011, 05:57:39 am »

Dawn,

Is this motor for HUGO?  WOW!

Rick Mortensen
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Rick Mortensen
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dsimas
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« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2011, 19:01:31 pm »

Dawn,
Is this motor for HUGO?  WOW!
Rick Mortensen

Yes Rick.  It all started when I got my 21 window bus with no engine.  I said, "Hey, that old motor in Hugo will work well for Velvet the bus."  I thought it was time to build a fresh one for Hugo after nearly 3 decades, right?  Ray, being who he is, ran with that.   Shocked  In all seriousness though, once he got started and I started blogging it, he wanted to use it as an educational one-off creation to share with the masses through these threads.  I may be a little afraid of the dang thing once it has wheels on the ground!
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rick m
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« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2011, 07:40:23 am »

That motor is going to put a big grin on your face the first time you let the clutch out. That old motor from HUGO will seem like a go kart engine compared to what Ray is doing now.  I enjoy the threads because I believe in many of the same exact engine building processes Ray employs.  Have been using what I learned from him from the early days....along with what I've learned since.  Look forward to meeting you in the future if you and Ray are attending events in So Cal. Keep me informed on your other project.  :-)

Rick M
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Rick Mortensen
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dsimas
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« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2011, 18:06:04 pm »


I am hoping to put Hugo with the new motor in the Cal Street Challenge at Bugoramas (a combination of Daily Driver requirement, show judging, and 1/4 mile times), depending on how it goes.  Of course with Tony Klink, Ray will be at all the PRA races down south.  I think Phoenix is in the spring, it's usually the first one?  And I am hoping to drive Velvet the bus to OCTO in Socal next year.  I hope to meet many of the people that I've met through these build threads that can finally see this motor in action.  Smiley
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rick m
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« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2011, 01:20:41 am »

Dawn,

I do remember the GHIA that Ray and I were going to do for H/Gas. I have a lot of pictures of it.  I will dig them out and post a few.

Rick M
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Rick Mortensen
Driving Hot VWs since 1970
Zach Gomulka
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Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.


« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2011, 01:23:11 am »

Phoenix BOR is March 25th next year.
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dsimas
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« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2011, 08:51:44 am »


In recent weeks, Ray has been on his own working on the heads and valves, since I work for Fedex and it's Christmas (just imagine).  He says:

"I cc'd the head it has 45 cc's now.  It would have 11.20:1 compression, a *bit high*.  We need 55 cc's to get 9.20:1.  I will grind more out for more cc's, keeping in mind the best places to grind for more air flow.  It's a good thing I did not fly cut much out of the heads.  Although I really did know what I was doing because we want about .045 deck, it is harder to work the heads, than the deck.  But will run better the way i am doing it.  The easy way is to shim and get more deck, and then cry when you get beat by someone like us....."  Grin

Here are some "protector valves" that Ray made.  They are to protect the seat from damage while unshrouding.



They are ground down like a razor blade (one on the left) to sit flush.



So, here are my valves that we are using, supposed to be 44 x 37...



But we measure them and they are never exact to begin with.



In addition to the fact that the valve heads sit on top of the seat.  See pics below, there is a large edge sitting above the seats.  We will reduce the diameter of the valve heads so that they sit more flush for better flow.





And look at the size of the seat, measured with a snap gauge.





A bit over 5mm of the valve head overhangs the seat.  We can remove around 2.5mm on each side.

So, we go to the Bridgeport.  Using the collet chuck to reduce the head size of the valve.



Cutting the valve...The valve is spinning and the cutter is fixed.  The valve bends a bit, so he keeps cutting until the valve stops bending.  (warning: the cutter "sings" a high pitched sound, prepare to turn the volume down, it may hurt your ears)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQTLG3l8J7k

Ray checks the diameter of the seat vs. the actual valve after cutting it down a bit.  He does this in an old fashioned way of just smacking it hard enough to leave a faint line to get an idea of where it will hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgE_FCTUc-0

By reducing the diameter of the valve head at low lift, the reduction in size is doubled because you get it on opening and closing.  Full lift only happens once.  Even at full lift, we gain because the valve diameter is smaller.  The valve is what blocks the airway. 

Ray has topped the guides so that the lift is .498 at the valve with 1.3 rockers.  But remember we are cutting the back of the valve to make up for that, so we will pick up more on the back side.  Really, we will have over .500.

People may think it will be lazy because we are using a 1.3 rocker instead of 1.4-1.5.  But it won't be because the valves will open more. 

Intake at full lift:



Exhaust at full lift:



The diameter of the valve is now 42.85 mm, he removed 1.15mm, and YES, we are running that in a 44 seat.   Wink  And now that the edge has been removed, he had to recut the 45 degree angle on the valve face and then do a back cut to 15 degrees.  (note past post in this thread that we had already back cut at 25 degrees, but he rethought it and decided on 15 to get about .030 more lift)

Sorry for the blurry cell phone picture.



The valve on the right is now blended after the cut job, you can see even more lift was gained.



The valve on the right now has the stem done also to enhance air flow even more. 



All done with the valves and the heads, finally!


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rick m
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Driving Hot VWs for 44 Years Strong!


« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2011, 09:39:58 am »

Dawn...Ray is giving away some valuable info!  A lot of stuff that many may not have thought about.... It all works!

RM
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Rick Mortensen
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dsimas
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« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2011, 18:00:00 pm »

Dawn...Ray is giving away some valuable info!  A lot of stuff that many may not have thought about.... It all works!

RM

Yes, Rick, this was one of his "trade secrets" 20-30 years ago and he labored with me revealing it even now.  He did the valve work a few weeks ago and said to rathole that part of the thread.  Then he changed his mind and said to go ahead and post it because many in racing (competition) do know about it now and the common builders that don't, probably should.  He really wants to educate in this thread.  And he knows that he still has enough secrets to still always win out...   Wink
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dsimas
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« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2011, 06:07:12 am »


A week ago he checked for interference between the valve spring retainers and guides.  Which also established push rod length.  Note that test springs are being used for increased visibility.





Then we got the pushrods from Smith Brothers.  They are 7/16 double taper aluminum.  Ray has ran aluminum for decades, even though some people dispute that they will work, he's never had a problem.  He ran them in the 912 racecar 25 years ago and often twisted it up over 11K rpms.  Hugo's 28 year old motor has the original aluminum ones in it also.  The double taper is for extra strength.  It's hard to see the difference in this photo, but mine is the one on the top.



He polished the tips of the valves, notice how shiny they are in the first photo below.  Normally, they are run with oil channels, the abrasion on the tip (you can barely see it on the comparison valve he is holding below).  But those ridges/channels file against the rocker tip and create more wear.  Especially when first started cold and the rubbing is slow and there is not as much oil (squashes out because 300# of pressure on tip).  Think of it like a tire tread on wet pavement, when the oil there makes it skate.  When the car goes slower, the weight is pressing down more and the ridges have more grip.  Therefore, Ray feels those ridges are counterproductive and so he polishes the tips.  He's torn down engines for a living for almost 50 years, so I figure he's seen the results of these sorts of things to base these opinions.  And we're lucky to glean the results of all that experience.  Smiley





I had a Berg deep sump (not sure, but it's 3 or 3.5 quart) on Hugo's old motor, I have for 28 years.  But it is very low and so we went with a wide shallower CB 1.5 quart sump for this one.  More cooling!  At first Ray didn't think that the headers would clear it, but he measured them and they should.  If not, we will use a 1 quart that isn't as wide.  Notice it has the Old School "Claudes Buggies" logo on it!  I feel so old when guys that are very knowledgeable and experienced with VW's don't know that is what the CB stands for...   Shocked



Got new clutch disks.  Better the the one I have and the pressure plate is stronger.  Even though this motor will have a lot of power, I will have to be careful because my tranny is still old and I'm out of $$ for a while....  I wasn't even dumping the clutch at Test And Tune last summer and it smelled bad.



Long block assembled!



We've added a new inlet and outlet for the second 72-pass oil cooler, rather than running it inline with the first one.  It's Ray's experience in the past that the first one brings down the oil temp about 30-40 degrees.  But a second one inline only brings it down an additional 15 degrees or so, rather than doubling the benefit.  Early in the build, we were going to use a single 96 pass.  But have decided to do two 72 pass coolers with complete separate lines.



IDA's always look wicked, but on such shortened  manifolds -- Wow!  How sick is this!??   Grin



The tin has been a bear with lots of fabricating due to the motor being so narrow.  Especially around the shortened manifolds.  Being the perfectionist he is, he got a beautiful fit here around them.



We REALLY want the manifolds on for the motor install.  Basically because they will be a beeyatch to try and get to the nuts after the engine is in the car.  Ray did some measuring and the entire motor is about 4" narrower overall, so it should go in with them on.  Smiley  Look at how tight they fit into the tin.  They flare out so low, those nuts are tight to get to, even with it on the rack in the open.  Hugo has doors in the wheel wells to access the current 40's, which we will make larger.  And we may need a special spark plug wrench, just for this engine.  We will see soon.





All holes 3% on a cold motor at the bottom, 2% at the top with .017 ring end gap.  Very good leak down!



Isn't this a beautiful thing?


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rick m
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Driving Hot VWs for 44 Years Strong!


« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2011, 14:23:14 pm »

I love the look of this motor...the narrowed straight up manifolds are killer!  I have really enjoyed this thread as I do a lot of my own specialty items and know how long it takes to do all this work. I will have to post some shots of all the specialty tin work I've done.

RM
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Rick Mortensen
Driving Hot VWs since 1970
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