I need some cam suggestions for my 78x94 IDA motor...

[Hotrodvw]

Berg 78x94, 5.5 rods, 44x37.5 p&p heads, 48IDA's, compression will be set at approx 10.5:1...  Going in a full bodied '67 sedan.

This is primarily a fun street car, occasional run to work in it.  Very rarely have my wife or kids in it.  I want something kind of nasty, would really love to get in to the 12's in the 1/4mi.  What would you suggest I look at?  A resonable idle, fairly streetable, but get's it on at the track is what I"m after.   

Thanks in advance!  Eric

[neil68]

Web 86C.

[Hotrodvw]

I have a friend that runs that cam in a 2387 streetable drag motor.....   How is it on lifter bores?

[neil68]

If you're running 1.4 ratio rockers, then the lift is only 0.546" with a Web 86C (272 duration at 0.050"), so there shouldn't be too many problems.  I've never experienced any lifter bore issues on my stock mag case.  The FK8 is another good cam 0.534" lift with 1.4 rockers, but it might be tough to get into the 12's with an FK8, although some have done it.

Like you, I drive a full bodied Beetle, (1805lb without driver), so I can vouch for the 86C being good enough for high 12's on 91 octane pump gas.  I first ran 12.9's at altitude with 44 x 37 heads and 10.6:1 CR...

[Bruce]

44x37.5 p&p heads,

Who did the heads?  What kind of lift are they set up for?

[BeetleBug]

It all depends on your heads but talking strictly cam I would recommend the FK87.

[pep]

I have almost same kind engine and FK87 inside there... CR11,2 and still reasonable idle and streetable 

[Jesse/DVK]

I got a similar engine and running the Web 86c. Really liking it but I'm going to raise the CR this winter. Now running on 9.8:1 but looking to get up to 10.7:1

[Hotrodvw]

44x37.5 p&p heads,

Who did the heads?  What kind of lift are they set up for?

We're going to build them.  I have a friend that has many yrs as a shop owner and builder, he owned SCS up here in Eugene.  I do have the Autocraft 1.4's to go with them.  Tom, head guy, knows how to make hp, so I'm puting it in his hands.

[TexasTom]

FK10 would be my choice for your combination.
TxT

[Hotrodvw]

FK10 would be my choice for your combination.
TxT

How different is it, or what is the driving difference with the FK10 over the Web Cam 86C?

[RFbuilt]

FK10 would be my choice for your combination.
TxT

i agree.. my friends 94x78.4   runs this on IDA

and its very nice below 2k rpm... nice enough that his wife who barely drives well.. can drive it to work..

and above 3k rpm.. its pretty torquey... and to my surprise.. the rpm limiter is 7k rpm and it doesnt seem to be that high at all..

nor  long enough bfor im grabbing gears to shift as the shiftlight pops hahaha

[jmarkha1]

I have similar motor and went with FK87 and 1.4:1 rockers.
running 11:1 with 44x38 - idle is ok and smooth through range. But can be propoerly nasty if you are in the mood

[Hotrodvw]

As of right now, I'm leaning toward the FK87 or 86c.......   fun on the street no doubt!   

[BeetleBug]

We're going to build them.  I have a friend that has many yrs as a shop owner and builder, he owned SCS up here in Eugene.  I do have the Autocraft 1.4's to go with them.  Tom, head guy, knows how to make hp, so I'm puting it in his hands.

Well, that changes things. If Tom is a head guy he should also know his math and find the perfect cam for your engine. Not only should he find a cam but he should also calculate the length of your intakes and exhaust header.

BB

[Hotrodvw]

The intakes are what they are, as well as the header.   We'll taylor heads to suite.  He has some cams in mind.

[BeetleBug]

The intakes are what they are, as well as the header. 

With those constants it will always be a compromise. Most original manifolds out there will work as a second venturi killing the power of your engine just like most headers are way to long.



 

[Hotrodvw]

Agreed, thr manifolds will be ported all the way up.  Sorry, I thought you meant what brand.

[TexasTom]

I suggested the FK10 for a couple of reasons.
First off, you could run 10:1 (easier on the engine with pump gas!) and it'll make good power; down low when your driving around and easily up to 7k+, pulling all the while. The 87 and 86C (I run an 86C myself in a 2276) are great cams I think, but definitely have a power band. They'll pull past 8k easy ... which brings on another point ...
You'll be servicing your top end a LOT more often. I usually get about a year out of a set of springs.
If your heads will breathe well all the way to .550+ and you want more strip than street, the larger cams will do that.

Will you be running close ratio gears?

[Hotrodvw]

Good points Tom.......  no, I'm still using stock '67 ratios in a built box.

[TexasTom]

Without the proper gearing, it's hard to recommend a high reving 'light-to-light' type cam. That's what I truly would my combination ... with the 86C.
I thoroughly enjoy the power my engine is capable of and abuse it whenever I get the chance!
BUT, I also don't drive my car more than twice a month, averaged over the course of a year.
I CAN'T WAIT to get my '67 project going ... 1955cc with torquer cam set up to rev to 6k.

I know you WANT power like 'This', but if you're honest with yourself and want a StreetCar that will Perform, just take the time to consider your options.
Besides, this is NOT going to be some DOG of a combination! You're just backing off a bit to be more truly streetable and still easily capable of 12s ... if that's your goal. It was mine, but in retrospect maybe went a bit far.

Sounds to me like you Need a 4" Bore engine!

[Hotrodvw]

The only reason I've kept stock gearing ratios is because up here in Oregon, things are spread out a bit.  Sometimes you have to jump on the freeway to get somewhere, or take twice as long getting there on the back roads.   I mainly run mine on the weekends, but occasionally drive to work as well.  I am trying to be honest about what I want, truth is...  I want it to kick ass on the streets and run 12's on the weekends.       I'm still leaning 86c, but time will tell.  I need to chat some more with my build help and see what he's thinking.  Thanks Tom!

[Zach Gomulka]

I am trying to be honest about what I want, truth is...  I want it to kick ass on the streets and run 12's on the weekends.   

A bigger crank will go a long way towards accomplishing that. That's asking a lot for a pump gas 2165 backed by stock gears in a stock-ish weight car. Not saying it can't be done, just that everyone has their own idea of what streetable is. Do you have rods yet?

[Hotrodvw]

I believe my rods are 5.5's....was going to  continue to use those.

[Zach Gomulka]

Hmmm... Those would go well with an 84... or 86 crank Add a fk10 you'll definitely have 12 second streetable power.

[tonybone]

FK87 with good quality 1.4 rockers.
My 2276 with street elim heads 42/37, comp 10.5, dellorto 48,s ran a dream with this cam, great around town with an idle of 800rpm. Torque cam in around 2800 and revved through 7000 when asked. Ran a low 13 in a very heavy car and tall ratios. 200hp

My buddy runs a 2332 with 11/1 plus comp and 1.5 rockers on an FK87' this car also is great on the street but let's rip when needed. Over 220 hp.

FK87 any day.

Good luck with the build.

[Shag55]

Hi Eric, I've built a few 2165s and used the k10 and one of my custom grinds vary close to the 87. Both worked out great. I like the custom grind a little better as I like more top end but you can't go wrong with any of these choices as long as the heads can support them and the valvetrain is up to the task as well. I would recommend you get the lifter bores sleeved if possible and use at least the CB650 springs.

[Udo]

Most people try to get the power with big cams . Get the power from the heads and use a smaller cam . this makes a good power range

Udo

[K-Roc]

We're going to build them.  I have a friend that has many yrs as a shop owner and builder, he owned SCS up here in Eugene.  I do have the Autocraft 1.4's to go with them.  Tom, head guy, knows how to make hp, so I'm puting it in his hands.

Well, that changes things. If Tom is a head guy he should also know his math and find the perfect cam for your engine. Not only should he find a cam but he should also calculate the length of your intakes and exhaust header.

BB

Hey Karl, I'm liking the FK87! 

So do you guys chop up your manifolds to change length very often?  ( got any pic's)

Take it easy!

Darren. 

[BeetleBug]

So do you guys chop up your manifolds to change length very often?  ( got any pic's)

It tends to be little easier to shorten them to the correct length compared to lengthen them. And you get a bit more space above the carbs too. A win win situation