How much money to run 10s in a street car?now with part2, The evolution to turbo

[richie]

Hey Richie,
I don't know if you're interested,
but i have a complete Kdata EFI for sale, wasted spark ignition included...
A lot cheaper than DTA

Peter can you send me all the details and info to me in a pm please? and a price

Useing the DTA has an added saving for me as I will be able to put a map into it and get it running pretty close without having to spend money at the dyno but i am interested in what you have got

cheers richie

[Jeff68]

I just found this thread. This is a great topic / thread.  Many want to run fast on the street and strip, be reliable but on somewhat of a budget.  I really appreciate Richie starting this and doin the work! Also thanks to all those with experience in this for posting on it honsestly.  I will definitely watch this thread! 
Should rename the thread - 10 seconds for 10K  or 10K for 10 Seconds     Thanks again!

[richie]

I just found this thread. This is a great topic / thread.  Many want to run fast on the street and strip, be reliable but on somewhat of a budget.  I really appreciate Richie starting this and doin the work! Also thanks to all those with experience in this for posting on it honsestly.  I will definitely watch this thread! 
Should rename the thread - 10 seconds for 10K  or 10K for 10 Seconds     Thanks again!

Thanks Jeff

hopefully it will be fun   and we all get to learn something,its to easy to get caught up in the "monkey see,monkey do" attitude and then we as a group never move forward

cheers richie

[richie]

not much progress

I have ordered the cage from Jim@cotsweld and will have that in a few weeks

cheers richie

[Beetleman]

Absolutely fascinating thread, very informative and extremely interesting to see how the differing thoughts around the car are progressed (or not).

Really looking forward to see this move on, I will be watching with great interest 

Graeme

[Red Rooster]

Hi all I am new to the lounge but have been following this thread for a little while now with quite a bit of interest.


in my old car we ran an 11.5 with a little gas very reliably and consistently. we bracket raced at York and Santa pod. The best money ever spent was an Innovate LM1. a very basic data logger and A/F monitor.

We would log A/F and engine rpm and use the data to back the fuel pressure on the nitrous side down. this gained us agree tenths over what had been advised as a perfect set up of jet sizes and fuel pressure.

We only ever ran a small shot as with the gas on the car was flat out at 112mph on limited at 8200rpm at 1000 feet. same speed as without gas at quarter mile. used to shut the gas off as the shift light came on.

This was only on a 2165 with home ported 42x37.5 heads and ida's. bottle pressure is the key to safe consistent running.

I am very keen to see what is achieved with a controller.

The car was a little lighter than a stock street car but not by a lot I don't think.

It was sold on to fund a V8 funnycar which has just been shelved due to finances so my 67 street car is being re built and restored to become a street strip machine.

Engine parts have been accumulated for a while and its a 2276 on ida's. no cam yet. I have some 043 headss that may get used after a trip to the welders.also with some wiseco's in there so it will take a bit of gas.

Have a cog box built box with close ratio gears and I think a 4.125 r&p. still on a super beetle main shaft.

This thread now has me pondering the potential. any thoughts?

Cheers

David

[richie]

I collected an cheap nitrous kit while at SCC,it is the NOS brand which I havent used so more learning to be done there,not much else happened as other cars have taken priority at the moment,but I will keep collecting the parts as I find them for sale so when I do start I will make good progress quickly and not be held up waiting for something

cheers richie

[richie]

Hi all I am new to the lounge but have been following this thread for a little while now with quite a bit of interest.


in my old car we ran an 11.5 with a little gas very reliably and consistently. we bracket raced at York and Santa pod. The best money ever spent was an Innovate LM1. a very basic data logger and A/F monitor.

We would log A/F and engine rpm and use the data to back the fuel pressure on the nitrous side down. this gained us agree tenths over what had been advised as a perfect set up of jet sizes and fuel pressure.

We only ever ran a small shot as with the gas on the car was flat out at 112mph on limited at 8200rpm at 1000 feet. same speed as without gas at quarter mile. used to shut the gas off as the shift light came on.

This was only on a 2165 with home ported 42x37.5 heads and ida's. bottle pressure is the key to safe consistent running.

I am very keen to see what is achieved with a controller.

The car was a little lighter than a stock street car but not by a lot I don't think.

It was sold on to fund a V8 funnycar which has just been shelved due to finances so my 67 street car is being re built and restored to become a street strip machine.

Engine parts have been accumulated for a while and its a 2276 on ida's. no cam yet. I have some 043 headss that may get used after a trip to the welders.also with some wiseco's in there so it will take a bit of gas.

Have a cog box built box with close ratio gears and I think a 4.125 r&p. still on a super beetle main shaft.

This thread now has me pondering the potential. any thoughts?

Cheers

David

It sounds like you have got some good knowledge there already from running the other car,and some good parts to use on the next one,the 4.12 R&P is proberly going to be a little short for a nitrous car depending on what 4th gear you have and what tyres you will use?

cheers richie

[Red Rooster]

atio

It sounds like you have got some good knowledge there already from running the other car,and some good parts to use on the next one,the 4.12 R&P is proberly going to be a little short for a nitrous car depending on what 4th gear you have and what tyres you will use?

cheers richie

we learned a lot in a few years racing. a lot of the head work I would do differently but we ran lots of mid 11's and 12.2 s no gas in the end and never had a single failure other than one snapped rocker shaft and a bent push rod now and then. I think if the gearing was taller a very low 11 was in there with a bit more gas but I was dubious on mahle's. plus on only a small shot we could choose to run either way at the drop of a hat as we didn't even need to take any timing out of it

I think the new car will run on M+H dots. Big Peter Christie ran some on his 67 and only had good words to say.

I do like the n/a scream of ida's and a lot of rpm (hard on parts I know) and intend boring mine to 51.5 if I can get enough in the heads hopefully I can push the rpm band up a little to help with the mph. the old engines max was trialed at 8400rpm limit but that was on a vw spring and that's when I ran into push rod problems so dropped ot back to 8200 shifting at 7800.. Hopefully if I can get a head and cam combination and valve train stability to see maybe 8.5k there maybe enough in the gearing I have?

I will see if I can find the spec on the box for fourth and the r&p to double check what they where.

Cheers

David

[Simpsonshoe]

I have seen a few cars that can run low 11's with mild combos..Two i can think of off the bat.. one a light bracket car that ran mid 12's at around 104-105 with a 2054 a 60 hp shot with very little tuning ran 11.17 at 117.. .. the other a 12.80 1915 IDA motor street sedan that ran 11.17 at 119 with a good sized shot. That 2 or three tenths is no problem those small motors made about 145-150 HP off the jug... All you need is a 2165-2276 built  about 9.0- 9.5 CB perf Pro Gas motor... Put it in a light car with decent gearing.... then slap a shot on it.. work the jetting until the number is reached..   Doubt it will take more thana 60-75 hit and  6000-7000 total.. 

[AntLockyer]

I have seen a few cars that can run low 11's with mild combos..Two i can think of off the bat.. one a light bracket car that ran mid 12's at around 104-105 with a 2054 a 60 hp shot with very little tuning ran 11.17 at 117.. .. the other a 12.80 1915 IDA motor street sedan that ran 11.17 at 119 with a good sized shot. That 2 or three tenths is no problem those small motors made about 145-150 HP off the jug... All you need is a 2165-2276 built  about 9.0- 9.5 CB perf Pro Gas motor... Put it in a light car with decent gearing.... then slap a shot on it.. work the jetting until the number is reached..   Doubt it will take more thana 60-75 hit and  6000-7000 total.. 

This is music to my ears. I'd love to get into the 11s with my combo

[richie]

As its so quiet in hear at the moment I thought I would bring this back up,I will be collecting the donor car on sunday,it wasnt possible until now to get me and it in the same place,I have lots of parts gathered and bought for as cheap as possible in the last few months and as soon as I get a couple of small projects finished I will get into it,I still hope to have it running this summer but time and money will get in the way as it is for everyone

cheers richie

[richie]

I collected the car on sunday,then yesterday gave it a good jet wash to remove several years of tree etc that had fallen on it,there is still some that wont come of easily on the roof and bonnet,but i am not concerned about that for now.

The plan:

As soon as I can get some space inside my 1st plan is to weigh the car as it sits now,it is missing 1 bumper and a couple of other small items[windscreen wiper motor & running boards most notible] so I will find those from my spares and put them in the car to get it as near as possible to what it would weigh stock.Everything that gets taken off and not re used will be weighed as well,then see what it weighs at the end and I will know how much all the extra junk adds
Then strip it all down to see what horrors are hidden,I will complete what rust repair is needed,convert it to IRS, then add the cage and seat mounts and go from there.

cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Sounds interesting I'm looking forward to this

[henk]

looking forward to the progress as welll.
i'm glad you start with it again.

henk!!!

[Airspeed]

Sounds like a lot of work..

Respect for putting in that amount of time in this project, while I am sure your pretty busy like all of us!

Cheers,
Walter

[AntLockyer]

convert it to IRS,

Going to do a how to?

[nicolas]

so is it done now? 


 

best wishes already and i'll be watching this tread for some info on an IRS conversion. 

[richie]

convert it to IRS,

Going to do a how to?

Hi Ant

do you think its needed? there are some out there already and what I do is not much different? I wasnt planning on it as when I start I just tend to keep going until its done,I dont remember to take photos along the way

cheers richie

[richie]

so is it done now? 


 

best wishes already and i'll be watching this tread for some info on an IRS conversion. 

Hi Nicolas

Nearly   well I nearly started on it   its actually dry here today so should get a chance to move some things around and at least weigh it ready to take apart



cheers richie

[AntLockyer]

Hi Ant

do you think its needed? there are some out there already and what I do is not much different? I wasnt planning on it as when I start I just tend to keep going until its done,I dont remember to take photos along the way

cheers richie

To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?

[richie]

To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?

No i use the swingaxle torsion housing,I just cut the frame forks to allow the irs brackets to fit in,I have a jig to hold them in the correct place,then weld them in and swap the spring plates to irs version,also you need to clearance the factory cast body support bracket to clear the irs arm to allow more travel and depending on what year the car is and what cvs you are going to use,sometimes I have to clearance the frame fork for the inner cv


cheers richie

[AntLockyer]

To be honest I've never really looked, but it is something I'd be interested in some point in the future I think. Do you just use a stock IRS torsion housing and weld it in?

No i use the swingaxle torsion housing,I just cut the frame forks to allow the irs brackets to fit in,I have a jig to hold them in the correct place,then weld them in and swap the spring plates to irs version,also you need to clearance the factory cast body support bracket to clear the irs arm to allow more travel and depending on what year the car is and what cvs you are going to use,sometimes I have to clearance the frame fork for the inner cv


cheers richie

Sounds pretty straight forward, cheers.

[richie]

The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 

[Metalflakedave]

The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 

Interesting stuff. So thats around 785kgs in total if I've read the scales right?

I'm having my '72 corner weighted soon so wondering what it will weigh. This gives me a good idea - no bumpers on mine, day mouldings wings and glass engine lid, but a little bit of extra interior with modern seats and full rear seat... Maybe 750-800?

[richie]

The rain held off long enough to get it on the scales today,this is what a near stock RHD 67 weighs,it was missing the rear bumper,1 headlight and the wiper motor, 

Interesting stuff. So thats around 785kgs in total if I've read the scales right?

I'm having my '72 corner weighted soon so wondering what it will weigh. This gives me a good idea - no bumpers on mine, day mouldings wings and glass engine lid, but a little bit of extra interior with modern seats and full rear seat... Maybe 750-800?

Yes,that 785kg is about right,I noticed later on it didn't have a battery in it either so that would need to be added.

It will suprise you how much weight is added by the whole big engine thing,and as they went on through the years beetles got heavier

cheers richie

[Metalflakedave]

Yes,that 785kg is about right,I noticed later on it didn't have a battery in it either so that would need to be added.

It will suprise you how much weight is added by the whole big engine thing,and as they went on through the years beetles got heavier

cheers richie

Cool. Mine is 2276 powered but with all the 'glass panels and a few repro I hope its a bit lighter or the same as a stock '72.

We shall see...

[Neil Davies]

I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.

[tikimadness]

I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.

Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!!

Michael

[richie]

I'd guess that most fibreglass panels are as heavy, if not heavier than steel items. I'm going for a set of repro steel wings - they're noticeably lighter than original steels.

Haha you should really get a set of day moulding raceweight wings. They are LIGHT!!!

Michael

Shhhh!!!! we dont want the wait for them to get longer

Neil there is proberly something in the weight saving thread that gives the weight for them all? if not I will weigh some I have and see what the difference is

cheers richie